## 9.1 – A note on Financial Ratios

Over the last few chapters, we have understood how to read financial statements. We will now focus our attention on analyzing these financial statements. The best way to analyze the financial statements is by studying the ‘Financial Ratios’. The theory of financial ratios was made popular by Benjamin Graham, who is popularly known as the fundamental analysis father. Financial ratios help interpret the results and compare with previous years and other companies in the same industry.

A typical financial ratio utilizes data from the financial statement to compute its value. Before we start understanding the financial ratios, we need to be aware of certain financial ratios’ attributes.

On its own merit, the financial ratio of a company conveys very little information. For instance, assume Ultratech Cements Limited has a profit margin of 15%, how useful do you think this information is? Well, not much, really. 15% profit margin is good, but how would I know if it is the best?

However, assume you figure out ACC Cement’s profit margin is 12%. Now, as we are comparing two similar companies, comparing the profitability makes sense. Clearly, Ultratech Cements Limited seems to be a more profitable company between the two. I am trying to drive across that more often than not, Financial Ratios on its own is quite mute. The ratio makes sense only when you compare the ratio with another company of a similar size or when you look into the financial ratio trend. This means that once the ratio is computed, the ratio must be analyzed (either by comparison or tracking the ratio’s historical trend) to get the best possible inference.

Also, here is something that you need to be aware off while computing ratios. Accounting policies may vary across companies and different financial years. A fundamental analyst should be cognizant of this fact and adjust the data accordingly before computing the financial ratio.

## 9.2 – Financial Ratios

Financial ratios can be ‘somewhat loosely’ classified into different categories, namely –

- Profitability Ratios
- Leverage Ratios
- Valuation Ratios
- Operating Ratios

**The Profitability ratios** help the analyst measure the profitability of the company. The ratios convey how well the company can perform in terms of generating profits. The profitability of a company also signals the competitiveness of the management. As the profits are needed for business expansion and to pay dividends to its shareholders, a company’s profitability is an important consideration.

**The Leverage ratios** also referred to as solvency ratios/ gearing ratios measures the company’s ability (in the long term) to sustain its day to day operations. Leverage ratios measure the extent to which the company uses the debt to finance growth. Remember for the company to sustain its operations, it has to pay its bills and obligations. Solvency ratios help us understand the company’s long term sustainability, keeping its obligation in perspective.

**The Valuation ratios** compare the company’s stock price with either the profitability of the company or the company’s overall value to get a sense of how cheap, or expensive the stock is trading. Thus, this ratio helps us analyse whether the company’s current share price is perceived as high or low. In simpler words, the valuation ratio compares the cost of security with the perks of owning the stock.

**The Operating Ratios** also called the ‘Activity Ratios’ measures the efficiency at which a business can convert its assets (both current and noncurrent) into revenues. This ratio helps us understand how efficient the management of the company is. For this reason, Operating Ratios are sometimes called the ‘Management Ratios’.

Strictly speaking, ratios (irrespective of the category it belongs to) convey a certain message, usually related to the company’s financial position. For example, ‘Profitability Ratio’ can convey the company’s efficiency, which is usually measured by computing the ‘Operating Ratio’. Because of such overlaps, it is difficult to classify these ratios. Hence the ratios are ‘somewhat loosely’ classified.

## 9.3 – The Profitability Ratios

We will look into the following ratios under ‘The Profitability Ratio’:

- EBITDA Margin (Operating Profit Margin)
- EBITDA Growth (CAGR)

- PAT Margin
- PAT Growth (CAGR)

- Return on Equity (ROE)
- Return on Asset (ROA)
- Return on Capital Employed (ROCE)

**EBITDA Margin:**

**The Earnings before Interest Tax Depreciation & Amortization (EBITDA) margin** indicates the efficiency of the management. It tells us how efficient the company’s operating model is. EBITDA Margin tells us how profitable (in percentage terms) the company is at an operating level. It always makes sense to compare the company’s EBITDA margin versus its competitor to get a sense of the management’s efficiency in terms of managing their expense.

To calculate the EBITDA Margin, we first need to calculate the EBITDA itself.

**EBITDA = [Operating Revenues – Operating Expense**]

Operating Revenues = [Total Revenue – Other Income]

Operating Expense = [Total Expense – Finance Cost – Depreciation & Amortization]

**EBIDTA Margin = EBITDA / [Total Revenue – Other Income]**

Continuing the example of Amara Raja Batteries Limited, the EBITDA Margin calculation for the FY14 is as follows:

We first calculate EBITDA, which is computed as follows:

[Total Revenue – Other Income] – [Total Expense – Finance Cost – Depreciation & Amortization]

Note: Other income is income under investments and other non-operational activity. Including other income in EBITDA calculation would clearly skew the data. For this reason, we have to exclude Other Income from Total Revenues.

[3482 – 46] – [2942 – 0.7 – 65]

= [3436] – [2876]

**= 560 Crores**

Hence the EBITDA Margin is:

560 / 3436

**= 16.3%**

I have two questions for you at this stage:

- What do an EBITDA of Rs.560 Crs and an EBITDA margin of 16.3% indicate?
- How good or bad an EBITDA margin of 16.3% is?

The first question is fairly simple. An EBITDA of Rs.560 Crs means that the company has retained Rs.560 Crs from its operating revenue of Rs.3436 Crs. This also means out of Rs.3436 Crs the company spent Rs.2876 Crs towards its expenses. In percentage terms, the company spent 83.7% of its revenue towards its expenses and retained 16.3% of the revenue at the operating level, for its operations.

Now for the 2^{nd} question, hopefully, you should **not** have an answer.

Remember, we did discuss this point earlier in this chapter. A financial ratio on its own conveys very little information. To make sense of it, we should either see the trend or compare it with its peers. Going with this, a 16.3% EBITDA margin conveys very little information.

To makes some sense of the EBITDA margin, let us look at Amara Raja’s EBITDA margin trend for the last 4 years, (all numbers in Rs Crs, except EBITDA margin):

Year | Operating Revenues | Operating Expense | EBITDA | EBITDA Margin |
---|---|---|---|---|

2011 | 1761 | 1504 | 257 | 14.6% |

2012 | 2364 | 2025 | 340 | 14.4% |

2013 | 2959 | 2508 | 451 | 15.2% |

2014 | 3437 | 2876 | 560 | 16.3% |

It appears that ARBL has maintained its EBITDA at an average of 15%, and in fact, on a closer look it is clear the EBITDA margin is increasing. This is a good sign as it shows consistency and efficiency in the management’s operational capabilities.

In 2011 the EBITDA was Rs.257 Crs, and in 2014 the EBITDA is Rs.560Crs. This translates to a 4 year **EBITDA CAGR growth** of 21%.

Please note, we have discussed the formula for CAGR in module 1.

Clearly, it appears that both the EBITDA margin and EBITDA growth are quite impressive. However, we still do not know if it is the best. To find out if it is the best one needs to compare these numbers with its competitors. In the case of ARBL, it would be Exide batteries Limited. I would encourage you to do the same for Exide and compare the results.

**PAT Margin:**

While the EBITDA margin is calculated at the operating level, the Profit After Tax (PAT) margin is calculated at the final profitability level. At the operating level, we consider only the operating expenses; however, other expenses such as depreciation and finance costs are not considered. Along with these expenses, there are tax expenses as well. When we calculate the PAT margin, all expenses are deducted from the company’s Total Revenues to identify the company’s overall profitability.

**PAT Margin = [PAT/Total Revenues]**

PAT is explicitly stated in the Annual Report. ARBL’s PAT for the FY14 is Rs.367 Crs on the overall revenue of Rs.3482 Crs (including other income). This translates to a PAT margin of:

= 367 / 3482

=10.5 %

Here is the PAT and PAT margin trend for ARBL:

Year | PAT (in INR Crs) | PAT Margin |
---|---|---|

2011 | 148 | 8.4% |

2012 | 215 | 8.9% |

2013 | 287 | 9.6% |

2014 | 367 | 10.5% |

The PAT and PAT margin trend seems impressive as we can clearly see a margin expansion. The 4-year CAGR growth stands at 25.48%, which is again good. Needless to say, it always makes sense to compare ratios with its competitors.

**Return on Equity (RoE):**

The Return on Equity (RoE) is a critical ratio, as it helps the investor assess the return the shareholder earns for every unit of capital invested. RoE measures the entity’s ability to generate profits from the shareholder’s investments. In other words, RoE shows the efficiency of the company in terms of generating profits to its shareholders. Obviously, the higher the RoE, the better it is for the shareholders. In fact, this is one of the key ratios that help the investor identify investable attributes of the company. The average RoE of top Indian companies varies between 14 – 16% to give you a perspective. I personally prefer to invest in companies that have an RoE of 18% upwards.

This ratio is compared with the other companies in the same industry and is also observed over time.

Also note, if the RoE is high, a good amount of cash is being generated by the company. Hence the need for external funds is less. Thus a higher ROE indicates a higher level of management performance.

**RoE can be calculated as: [Net Profit / Shareholders Equity* 100]**

There is no doubt that RoE is an important ratio to calculate, but like any other financial ratios, it also has a few drawbacks. To help you understand its drawbacks, consider this hypothetical example.

Assume Vishal runs a Pizza store. To bake pizza’s Vishal needs an oven which costs him Rs.10,000/-. The oven is an asset to Vishal’s business. He procures the oven from his own funds and seeks no external debt. You would agree on his balance sheet that he has shareholder equity of Rs.10,000 and an asset equivalent to Rs.10,000.

Now, assume in his first year of operation, Vishal generates a profit of Rs.2500/-. What is his RoE? This is quite simple to compute:

RoE = 2500/10000*100

=25.0%.

Now let us twist the story a bit. Vishal has only Rs.8000/- he borrows Rs.2000 from his father to purchase an oven worth Rs.10000/-. How do you think his balance sheet would look?

On the liability side, he would have:

Shareholder Equity = Rs.8000

Debt = Rs.2000

This makes Vishal’s total liability Rs. 10,000. Balancing this on the asset side, he has an asset worth Rs.10,000. Let us see how his RoE looks now:

RoE = 2500 / 8000*100

= 31.25%

With an additional debt, the RoE shot up quite significantly. Now, what if Vishal had only Rs.5000 and borrowed the additional Rs.5000 from his father to buy the oven. His balance sheet would look like this:

On the liability side, he would have:

Shareholder Equity = Rs.5000

Debt = Rs.5000

Vishal’s total liability is Rs. 10,000. Balancing this on the asset side, he has an asset worth Rs.10,000. Let us see how his RoE looks now:

RoE = 2500 / 5000 *100

=50.0%

Clearly, higher the debt Vishal seeks to finance his asset, (which in turn is required to generate profits) higher is the RoE. A high RoE is great, but certainly not at the cost of high debt. The problem is with a high amount of debt, running the business gets very risky as the finance cost increases drastically. For this reason, inspecting the RoE closely becomes extremely important. One way to do this is by implementing a technique called the **‘DuPont Model’ also called DuPont Identity.**

This model was developed in the 1920s by the DuPont Corporation. DuPont Model breaks up the RoE formula into three components, representing a certain aspect of the business. The DuPont analysis uses both the P&L statement and the Balance sheet for the computation.

The RoE as per DuPont model can be calculated as:

If you notice the above formula, the denominator and the numerator cancel out with one another eventually leaving us with the original RoE formula which is:

**RoE = Net Profit / Shareholder Equity *100**

However, in decomposing the RoE formula, we gained insights into three distinct aspects of the business. Let us look into the three components of the DuPont model that makes up the RoE formula :

**Net Profit Margin = Net Profits/ Net Sales*100**

This is the first part of the DuPont Model, and it expresses the company’s ability to generate profits. This is nothing but the PAT margin we looked at earlier in this chapter. A low Net profit margin would indicate higher costs and increased competition.**Asset Turnover = Net Sales / Average Total asset.**

Asset turnover ratio is an efficiency ratio that indicates how efficiently the company is using its assets to generate revenue. Higher the ratio, it means the company is using its assets more efficiently. Lower the ratio, it could indicate management or production problems. The resulting figure is expressed as several times per year.**Financial Leverage = Average Total Assets / Shareholders Equity**

Financial leverage helps us answer this question – ‘For every unit of shareholders equity, how many units of assets does the company have’. For example, if the financial leverage is 4, for every Rs.1 of equity, the company supports Rs.4 worth of assets. Higher the financial leverage, along with increased amounts of debt, will indicate the company is highly leveraged, and hence the investor should exercise caution. The resulting figure is expressed as several times per year.

As you can see, the DuPont model breaks up the RoE formula into three distinct components, with each component giving an insight into the company’s operating and financial capabilities.

Let us now proceed to implement the DuPont Model to calculate Amara Raja’s RoE for FY 14. For this, we need to calculate the values of the individual components.

**Net Profit Margin**: As I mentioned earlier, this is same as the PAT margin. From our calculation earlier, we know the Net Profit Margin for ARBL is **9.2%**

**Asset Turnover = Net Sales / Average Total Assets.**

We know from the FY14 Annual Report, Net sales of ARBL stands at Rs.3437 Crs.

The denominator has Average Total Assets which we know can be sourced from the Balance Sheet. But what does the word ‘Average’ indicate?

From ARBL’s balance sheet, the total asset for FY14 is Rs.2139Crs. The reported number is for the Financial Year 2014, which starts from 1^{st} of April 2013 and close on 31^{st} March 2014. This implies that at the start of the financial year 2014 (1^{st} April 2013), the company must have commenced its operation with assets carried forward from the previous financial year (FY 2013). During the financial year (FY 2014), the company has acquired some more assets which, when added to the previous year’s (FY2013) assets totalled to Rs.2139 Crs. Clearly, the company started the financial year with a certain rupee value of assets but closed the year with a totally different rupee value of assets.

Keeping this in perspective, if I were to calculate the asset turnover ratio, which asset value should I consider for the denominator? Should I consider the asset value at the beginning of the year or the asset value at the end of the year? To avoid confusion, the practice is to take an average of the two financial years’ asset values.

Do remember this technique of averaging line items, as we will be using this across other ratios.

From ARBL’s annual report, we know:

Net Sales in FY14 is Rs.3437Cr

Total Assets in FY13 is Rs.1770 Cr

Total Assets in FY14 is Rs.2139 Cr

Average Assets = (1770 + 2139) / 2

= 1955

Asset Turnover = 3437 / 1955

= **1.75 times**

This means for every Rs.1 of asset deployed; the company is generating Rs.1.75 in revenues.

We will now calculate the last component, that is the Financial Leverage.

**Financial Leverage = Average Total Assets / Average Shareholders Equity**

We know the average total assets is Rs.1955. We just need to look into the shareholder’s equity. For reasons similar to taking the “Average Assets” instead of just the current year assets, we will consider “Average Shareholder equity” as opposed to just the current year’s shareholder equity.

Shareholders Equity for FY13 = Rs.1059 Crs

Shareholders Equity for FY14 = Rs.1362 Crs

Average shareholder equity = Rs.1211 Crs

Financial Leverage = 1955 / 1211

= **1.61 times**

Considering ARBL has little debt, Financial Leverage of 1.61 is indeed an encouraging number. The number above indicates that for every Rs.1 of Equity, ARBL supports Rs.1.61 of assets.

We now have all the inputs to calculate RoE for ARBL; we will now proceed to do the same:

**RoE = Net Profit Margin X Asset Turnover X Financial Leverage**

= 9.2% * 1.75 * 1.61

**~ 25.9%. **Quite impressive, I must say!

I understand this is a lengthy way to calculate RoE, but this is perhaps the best way to calculate RoE, we can develop valuable insights into the business. DuPont model not only answers what the return is but also the quality of the return.

However, if you wish to do a quick RoE calculation, you can do so the following way:

**RoE = Net Profits / Avg shareholders Equity**

From the annual report we know for the FY14 the PAT is Rs.367 Cr.

RoE = 367 / 1211

**= 30.31%**

**Return on Asset (RoA):**

Having understood the DuPont Model, understanding the next two ratios should be simple. Return on Assets (RoA) evaluates the effectiveness of the entity’s ability to use the assets to create profits. A well-managed entity limits investments in non-productive assets. Hence RoA indicates the management’s efficiency at deploying its assets. Needless to say, the higher the ROA, the better it is.

**RoA = [Net income + interest*(1-tax rate)] / Total Average Assets**

From the Annual Report, we know:

Net income for FY 14 = Rs.367.4 Crs

And we know from the Dupont Model the Total average assets (FY13 and FY14) = Rs.1955 Cr.

So what does **interest *(1- tax rate)** mean? Well, think about it, the loan taken by the company is also used to finance the assets, which in turn is used to generate profits. So in a sense, the debtholders (entities who have given a loan to the company) are also a part of the company. From this perspective, the interest paid out also belongs to a stakeholder of the company. The company also benefits in terms of paying lesser taxes when interest is paid out; this is called a ‘tax shield’. For these reasons, we need to add interest (by accounting for the tax shield) while calculating the ROA.

The Interest amount (finance cost) is Rs.7 Crs, accounting for the tax shield it would be

= 7* (1 – 32%)

= 4.76 Cr. Please note, 32% is the average tax rate.

Hence ROA would be –

RoA = [367.4 + 4.76] / 1955

~ 372.16 / 1955

**~19.03% **

**Return on Capital Employed (ROCE):**

The Return on Capital employed indicates the company’s profitability, taking into consideration the overall capital it employs.

Overall capital includes both equity and debt (both long term and short term).

**ROCE = [Profit before Interest & Taxes / Overall Capital Employed]**

Overall Capital Employed = Short term Debt + Long term Debt + Equity.

From ARBL’s Annual Report, we know:

Profit before Interest & Taxes = Rs.537.7 Crs

Overall Capital Employed:

Short term debt: Rs.8.3 Cr

Long term borrowing: Rs.75.9 Cr

Shareholders equity = Rs.1362 Cr

Overall capital employed: 8.3 + 75.9 + 1362 = 1446.2 Crs

ROCE = 537.7 / 1446.2

**= 37.18%**

### Key takeaways from this chapter:

- A Financial ratio is a useful financial metric of a company. On its own merit, the ratio conveys very little information
- It is best to study the ratio’s recent trend or compare it with the company’s peers to develop an opinion
- Financial ratios can be categorized into ‘Profitability’, ‘Leverage’, ‘Valuation’, and ‘Operating’ ratios. Each of these categories gives the analyst a certain view on the company’s business
- EBITDA is the amount of money the company makes after subtracting the operational expenses of the company from its operating revenue
- EBITDA margin indicates the percentage profitability of the company at the operating level
- PAT margin gives the overall profitability of the firm
- Return on Equity (ROE) is a precious ratio. It indicates how much return the shareholders are making over their initial investment in the company
- A high ROE and high debt is not a great sign
- DuPont Model helps in decomposing the ROE into different parts, with each part throwing light on different aspects of the business
- DuPont method is probably the best way to calculate the ROE of a firm
- Return on Assets is an indicator of how efficiently the company is utilizing its assets
- Return on Capital employed indicates the overall return the company generates considering both the equity and debt.
- For the ratios to be useful, it should be analyzed compared to other companies in the same industry.
- Also, ratios should be analyzed both at a single point in time and as an indicator of broader trends over time

In ROA how did you get 496 as Net income before interest & taxes. As per AR isnt it 541-1-65=475, where 541 is Profit before Tax, 1 is finance cost and 65 is depreciation.

Amit, thanks so much for pointing this out. In fact the formula should be ROA = [Net Income + Interest*(1-tax rate)] / Avg Asset. ROA calculates the return with respect to the average assets that the company holds. We add back interest because the interest is paid out to the debt holders who in turn has financed to company. And when we pay out interest, lesser taxes are paid, hence the company gets a tax shield. This is the reason why we have interest*(1-tax rate).

Your Opinion is also correct. But I feel Return on Assets Formula should be

Net Income/ Total Assets (or Avg Assets). Interest Should not be added back as we are calculation is made for Equity Holders.

Instead of “we are” read “our”

I guess you are saying that since the interest is paid to debt holders and that money actually belongs to them.

Sir please can u provide notes for time value of money n calculation related to bonda n ytm….its very difficult to understand it by oneself…

This is something I’ve been wanting to do. Have briefly touched on time value here – https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/dcf-primer/ , section 14.3.

The PAT for 2014 was 367 crores while you show it as 322 Crores ( Have you deducted something from PAT?)

Karthik Ji , COnfused about this PAT, can you clarify?

Profit After Taxes (PAT) is the final amount that the company retains after accounting for its expenses, deprecation, and taxes.

Yes, but the ARBL annual report explicitly states PAT = 367.4 crores, as pointed out by Chetan. So, why are we using the number the number 322 instead?

Let me recheck this…while writing this chapter I put down all the numbers on excel…hope I’ve not made silly typos while doing this 🙁

sir, can you please explain me on return on equity , how net profit margin is 9.2% ?

As you have mentioned, it is same as PAT margin but PAT margin value is 10.5%

RoE = PAT/Shareholder’s equity

PAT margin can include other income or exclude. Based on what you choose, the margins could differ.

it is the profit left out with the company in order to fulfill its obligations regarding payment of dividend to preference shareholders (if any) and balance is either retained by the co. or paid to equity shareholders as dividend at the rate declared . it is the amount used in ratio return on equity (roe) —[PAT (or) earnings made available to equity share holders]/shareholders funds

shareholders funds=total paid up equity share capital+free reserves – losses(if any)

Thanks for pitching in, Giri!

While calculating the ROA, you said the formula is RoA = [Net income before + interest*(1-tax rate)] / Total Average Assets

The Total Avg Assets is 1955, But seems like you have picked Avg shareholders equity which is 1211 .

Thanks for pointing this, I will make the correction.

Karthik Sir… Was going through the VST trillers AR, They have Öther Long Term Liabilities”under liablities ( Balance Sheet), Referring the Note it was the Rental and dealer deposits which VST has received and offcourse they should repay it at the time of Contract termination/expiration. How do we treat this? I guess VST will use this for investment or as deposits which will fetch them Interest.

How and where should we account this?

So parts of “Other Long Term Liabilities” will be be balanced out in the cash or investments – which is the asset side of the balance sheet. And the interest income received from such investments (if any) will be included in ‘Other Income” of the P&L statement.

kARTHIK,

While computing ROCE above, how did you take the fig. of NPBIT as 496 Cr.? Whereas ideally it should be 540 Cr. Isn’t it? Pls clarify.

Karthik,

Sorry, You r right.

🙂

In Calculation of ROE for Vishal Pizza store you have not deducted interest from Profits and hence its conceptually wrong. please correct the same

Thanks for pointing this Abhishek, the point was to take a bare bone example to illustrate how ROE can get skewed with the presence of debt. Also, when you do this excersie on a real company you would divide PAT by Equity…PAT anyway deducts the finance cost.

Why can’t we take ROCE as a measure to gauge company’s performance as it includes both debt and equity? If ROCE is good then ROE will definitely be good. Can you please clarify?

Well you can do that, but the beauty of ROE is that it allows you to break up and analyse the company in many different aspects – leverage, sales, assets etc..thereby giving you a better insight into company’s operations.

Sir,

While calculating ROA, from where you got this figure i. e 0.4738.

[RoA = [367.4 + 0.4738] / 1955]

Thank you.

Raju – When calculating ROA we need to account for the tax shield.

The Interest amount (finance cost) is Rs.1 Crs, accounting for the tax shield it would be

= 1* (1 – 34%)

= 0.4738 Crs .

Do note, 34% is the average tax rate.

Sir, i dont know how to download fundamental analysis Part 2… I want to learn financial ratios.. help me plz.

The PDF is available at the end of the module page here – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/fundamental-analysis/

Sir,

Instead of 0.4738, I get the answer 0.66% when I enter this formula “= 1* (1 – 34%)” into the excel sheet.

Please explain in detail.

Thank you.

Guess you could be right here, let me recheck and correct the typo if required. Thanks for pointing this.

Thank you for pointing out the error. Yes it should have been 0.66 crores, we have made the necessary correction.

I think the above calculation should be 0.7*(1-32%)=0.476 as we are calculating in crores.

How to calculate tax rate ?

One quick way to do this is by dividing Tax by PBT..you will know approximately the tax rate %.

Sir

then tax rate for the year 2014 is 32% (170/537) and for the year 2013 it is 32%(135/422) .

Average of these value is 32% then why have to taken 34% in calculating tax sheild ?

Thank you for pointing out the error. We have made the necessary corrections.

please clarify how can you calculate 170 for Year 2014 and 135 for Year 2013?

Less: Tax expense FY14 FY13

Current tax 1,580.00 1,377.97

Deferred tax (credit) / expense 106.23 (24.51)

Earlier year’s (excess) / short provision 6.11 (2.34)

ok.Got it

Add all these value then get tax value for FY.

sir while calculating CAGR you have taken n=4 years… but shouldn’t it be 3 years. as the initial year itself is not included??

You can include the 4th year…for example if the investment was made on 1st Jan then the money has the whole year to compound.

From which sheet you taken Profit before Interest & Taxes = Rs.496 Cr

In ROCE and how?

why you taking finance cost(EBITDA and ROA) 1 cr else 7 cr is given in AR P&L statement?

Please guide me.

Thank you for pointing out the error. We have made the necessary corrections.

How to calculate the tax rate(%) in ROA???

Tax rate is a % of PBT that goes towards the Income tax obligation of the company. You can calculate the same by dividing Income tax paid by PBT.

Thanks for your awesome work!

Shouldn’t the net profit margin under DuPont model be 10.5% as against 9.2% mentioned? This would also make ROE’s calculated from both the method approximately same, which makes sense mathematically. Please clarify.

Need to double check this…will get back on this.

Net profit Margin is 10.5 instead of 9.2 I guess its a typo which in turn gets cascading effect

Yes, it is 10.5. We had made the necessary corrections.

That was fast…. This is awesome material, appreciate the effort. Would look forward to a book from varsity soon. Keep up the good work

It is still showing 9.2 %

The change is still not made and people will be confused. Kindly change it.

Sir ji i think PAT margin is 10.5 % so it’s 10.5*1.75*1.61=29.58% am i right ? So there is no big diff in calculating ROE bu usual method and by DuPont Model

Both the techniques should lead to the similar answers. Should not give you big differences.

Do we need to add excise duty tax in the income tax paid for finding the tax rate

Nope, you can exclude that. Tax rate is usually Income tax.

How did u calculate PBIT?? in ROCE??

–Shouldn’t it be Profit before tax-finance cost=536.7-0.718= 535.98 Cr, But, you got 537.7 Cr.

Micheal – Thank you for pointing out this. The Profit before interest and Taxes are calculated as follows :-

As per ARBL balance sheet – PBT 536.67 and Finance Charges are 0.718. In order to calculate PBIT the Finance costs should be added back, as it was already deducted, hence the PBIT is 537.7.

Can i use the formula for tax rate(%)=PAT/Profit Before Tax,Is tax rate and tax burden the same??.

Michael – Yes you can use the formula. Both are same, although I prefer calling it the tax rate 🙂

Is return on capital employed and return on capital invested the same?But Return on capital employed=Equity+Long term+short term debt & Return on capital invested=Equity+Long term+short term debt+capital lease obligation{i read this from a blog named Old value school.com} & what does capital lease obligation mean and how do we find it in the financial statement.

Micheal – Both are same.

Honestly I’m not sure about ‘Capital lease obligation’. Have not come across this in the Annual Report of Indian companies. Need to figure this out.

Thank u for answering my earlier Queries.Can a student with out a finance background be a fundamental analyst and enter in to stock investing,u can see lots of people with the required skills on the loosing side of the stock market.

Oh yes, you certainly can. You don’t really need to have a background in Finance to be a fundamental analyst. However if you intend to make this your profession then you may need to have a PG degree of sorts.

Hi Kartik,

How did you arrived at Shareholder’s Equity figure.

I think you mention Shareholder’s Equilt = Asset – Liability. And for Balance Sheets, Asset should always equal to Liability.

Then shouldn’t be Shareholder’s equity always zero ?

Net worth = Assets – Liability

Shareholders equity = Share Capital + Reserves

Awesome work, I have few doubts,

1) In ROE DuPONT calculation,

Is Net Sales 3437 Cr/3482 Cr ( from P&L ). Are we excluding OTHER INCOME (46Cr) from Net Revenue ?

In either Values (3437 / 3482), the calculation goes like this… 367/3437 = 10.6 % (or) 367/3482 = 10.5 %.

But it is 9.2% there.

2) Because of this While calculating ROE by normal way and DuPont way, there is a huge difference 25.9% and 30.31%

I have got both way of calculation ~ same… ( 10.5*1.75*1.61)= 29.58 and other one is 30.31%.

3) what is the avg ROA of Top indian companies, is it > 15% ?

1) Excluding other income is a good idea. I’ll double check the numbers.

2) Another way to put this is, companies which display >15% ROE/ROA are usually top 🙂

Thanks … if possible please update the numbers.

Sure Abhilash, will look into this as soon as I can. Thanks for your patience.

Hi, sir

ROE=Net profit Margin*Asset Turnover*Financial Leverage

ROE=Net Profits/Avg.Shareholders Equity

can we use both formula to calculate ROE?

but different values come in both formula……is it ok?

You can, but the Dupont method is more elaborate. Suggest you use that.

While calculating ARBL’s Return on Asset(ROA), It is written Interest -7 and tax rate-32%

how it came this value?….

Hi,

I got the answer…….Interest is nothing but finance cost so ARBL’s finance cost was 7 right

and average tax rate is 32%

Yup.

in EBITDA calculation-

why finance cost and depreciation subtracted from total expense for calculating operating expense?? finance cost is also a part of operating expense

Because the EBITDA is supposed to reflect pure operational efficiency of a company.

EBITDA is before the effect of deprecation interest and taxes, but you have taken dep and amortisation and finance cost into consideration which means the equation is profit before tax and not EBITDA

Kunal, EBITDA or Operational expense is Revenue (exclude other income) minus expenses (exclude D&A).

plz point out what will be shareholders equity in calculating ROE?

where to find this value and what is it in ARBL ?

We have put up the calculation already. Suggest you check screener.in for latest values.

how can higher financial leverage means higher debt??

Financial leverage helps us answer this question – ‘For every unit of shareholders equity, how many units of assets does the company have’.

higher value should be good for company and investor?

Leverage refers to debt. Suggest you read the section on Return on Equity here – http://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/financial-ratio-analysis/

I calculated financial leverage(asset/shareholders fund) of exide. It came out to me .6

It means for every rs 1 of shareholders money company has asset of rs .6. ?

so less than 1 ratio is considered good or bad?

Assets/Shareholders alone does not really convey much about leverage. I’d suggest you look at debt to equity as well. Value of 0.6 conveys a healthy ratio.

Is there any automated tool to carry out the fundamental analysis like you did in this chapter in Zerodha ?

No, but tools like screener.in will help.

RoE = Net Profits / Avg shareholders Equity

From the annual report we know for the FY14 the PAT is Rs.367 Crs

RoE = 367 / 1211

= 30.31%

From where 1211 value is taken?

In annual different value is given

shareholders fund

share capital-170

reserves and surplus-13456

Hi Rohan,

You can find the details in the Financial section of the Annual report, under the Balance Sheet.

The Shareholders funds for FY13 = Rs.1059 Crs

The Shareholders funds for FY14 = Rs.1362 Crs

Therefore Average shareholder equity = Rs.1211 Crs

Financial Leverage = Average Total Assets / Average Shareholders Equity

average shareholders equity=share capital+ reserves and surplus

shareholders equity means money from shares. Then why reserves and surplus included in this?

Avg Shareholder Eq = Avg of this year’s and previous year’s Shareholder’s EQ.

Shareholders equity is the net worth of the company and not money from shares. The net worth includes both share capital and Reserves and Surplus.

Hi Karthik, While calculating the interests for calculating RoA for one of the stocks i found that the financial costs include the below point

-Interest to banks

-Interest others

-Amortisation of ancillary borrowing costs

-Cash discount

-Bank charges

Now will the interest for the RoA include all the above points given under the financial costs or will it only consider the Interest to banks and Interest others?

It should consider all these charges.

Hi Karthik

The EBITDA you calculated in the above table for 4 years 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 i.e. 257, 340, 451, 560 respectively does not match with the EBITDA numbers given in AR of FY14 for the same years i.e. 258.8, 357,465.8 and 575.8

Why is that so? Please Explain.

I’ve taken the restated numbers to represent the most accurate value. I guess this is where the difference is coming from.

Hi Sir, thanks for such a tutorial. I am a slow learner. It may take some time for me to digest them. meanwhile I thought of asking you this. Is there a place where I can get all these ratios for each stock rather than I calculate it. I am thinking like driving a car. I know to drive a car but do not know how it works. can that theory be applied here.

Sure. Check out ratestar.in or screener.in , both are really good source of data.

Hi karthik ,I think the logic of taking average of 2 years equity and 2 years debt be applicable in calculating ROCE vis a vis Average assets while calculating ROE ,because the average of both produce the current returns,kindly correct if I’m wrong

Not sure what you mean by – “because the average of both produce the current returns”, can you please elaborate so that I can understand this better? Thanks.

sir,

For analysis of company which numbers should be taken i.e standalone or consolidated statements. And the dividends are paid on which numbers?

Consolidated statements for both your queries.

Hi Karthik,

Hope you are doing well.

I have doubt in the calculation formula of EBIDTA. I have cross checked multiple websites and all of them have there own formulas of calculation EBIDTA. However the most commonly used formula was:

Total Revenue – Operating Expenses = EBITDA.

In the above mentioned formula giaven by you it is: Operating Revenue – Operating Expenses = EBITDA.

Which one is correct? Also, please check the the given link. I have made two calculations based on these two formulas and result were very different.

-Last

By checking the CAGR of both the formulas what will be the effect of them? AS one CAGR is positive and one is negative.

https://s22.postimg.org/bxoozup35/EBIDTA.png

I’d suggest you consider the Total Revenue – Total operating expense = EBITDA. This would be a bit conservative, better that way.

Dear Karthik

Why is there a difference while calculating the ROE by both method

1st: 25.9%

2nd: 30.31%

Ideally it should not – I’m guessing its because I’m using the restated numbers. Need to look into this again, will get back as soon as I can. Thanks.

Hi Karthik,

Asian Paints ROE for 2015-2016 is coming 1800% , net profit 1726.21 cr. Equity 95.92 cr. can a ROE be this high.

Regards,

MSP

Unlikely, you must recheck the number. Its 10 year average is more in the region of 35%. Check this – https://www.screener.in/company/ASIANPAINT/consolidated/

Hi Karthik,

AP is mentioning share capital 95.92 cr and consolidated profit 1726 cr

https://www.asianpaints.com/content/dam/asianpaints/website/secondary-navigation/investors/financial-results-2/2015/Asian%20Paints%20Limited%20-%20Annual%20Report%202015-16.pdf.

Am i looking , right numbers?

Regards.

MSP

You will also have add Reserves to this. Remember Reserves & Surplus is basically undistributed profits, belonging to shareholders. So divide the PAT by share capital + Reserves & Surplus and check the numbers again, please. Thanks.

Hi Karthik,

Thanks, now its coming correct.

Regards,

MSP

Glad 🙂

Hi Karthik,

Tata Chemical 2015-2016, Shares outstanding 25.82 cr. Reserve and Surplus 6033.58 cr , PAT 780.16 cr , EPS is coming 0.12, they are reporting 30.62. they are not including reserve and surplus, why so?

Regards,

MSP

I guess you’ve not converted the shares outstanding to Crores.

Hi Karthik,

I had converted to cr, in ROE we include general reserve, for EPS also we need to include general reserve?

Regards,

MSP

EPS is PAT divided by number of shares, reserves do not come into picture here.

Hi Karthik,

Thanks, now i am clear on this.

Regards,

MSP

Great!

Hi Karthik,

Tata motors ROE is coming 16%, Financial leverage 3.70, what does this mean? especially Financial leverage of 3.70.

Regards,

MSP

It indicates the presence of debt. You may want to double check on that.

Hi Karthik,

Avg. Asset 253977.795 cr, Average share holders equity 68522.295 cr, figures taken from http://www.tatamotors.com/investor/annual-reports/, for 2015-2016. 2014-2015.

Regards,

MSP

hello Karthik, when we have asset turnover in Dupoint analysis, do we need ROA ratio?, if yes then whats the difference between them?

Asset turnover and Return on asset (ROA) are two different ratios 🙂

Check this – http://www.financeformulas.net/Return_on_Assets.html

While calculating RoA how did you come up with the interest amount or finance cost 7 crs and avg. tax rate as 32%?

And while calculating Asset turnover ratio I think you taken net sales wrong figure . It is RS. 34036.12 million YOU TOOK AS 3437 CRS

I’ve converted the numbers to Crores throughout as its more intuitive for most of us to understand.

In EBITDA, what is the meaning of “Interest Tax Depreciation”?

It just means that – Interest, Tax, and depreciation.

Hi Team,

The figure of finance cost taken in the calculation of ROA is wrong…The amount of finance cost given in the annual report is 7.18 in million rupees which equals to .72 CR/ 72 lakhs..

Let me look through this, Gaurav. Thanks.

Under return of asset you have taken finance cost as 7 crs whereas by the balance sheet it is 70 lakhs. Please have a look and correct

Another small issue, once you download the PDF, a few chapters are repeated(The ones on financial ratios)

And, really thank you for this work.

Thanks for pointing that out, Raja. Will check on both the issues.

Can you please explain DuPont Model 3 points and 5 points?

Dont think we have discussed the Dupont in detail. I’ll probably do that one of these days as a supplementary note.

Small spelling correction:

EBIDTA Margin = EBITDA / [Total Revenue – Other Income]

Its actually EBITDA Margin

Thanks for pointing this 🙂

Sir, i have few doubts;

1.Does Asset Turnover and ROA convey the same thing but in different way?

2. What does this mean ”if the financial leverage is 4, this means for every Rs.1 of equity, the company supports Rs.4 worth of assets”?

No, Asset T/O indicates how efficiently you are using the assets you’ve invested in. ROA on the other hand, indicates the return on the asset you have.

It means for every 1 Rupee of your own, you have borrowed Rs.4.

Why dont we depriciate Tax form operating expenses in EBITDA?

Tax cannot be depreciated, Ayush. If you are talking about deducting, then yes, you can do that and consider just EBIT.

Hi Karthik,

For PAT, we use Total Revenues (which includes the ‘Other Income’) in the denominator. Then why do we say that Net Profit Margin in Du Pont is same as PAT when we use Net Sales (which excludes Other income ) in the denominator ?

For estimating pure operational efficiency, you will have to exclude other income.

Hi Karthik,

Thank you for the module. Regarding ROE and ROCE ratios, Profit was considered for obtaining ratios. However for ROA, “Net Income” had been considered for calculation. Does this have any significance or it is just the way the ratios have been defined.

Profit is net income.

sir, in EBITDA why do we consider other expenses as operating expenses whereas we are not considering other revenue as operating revenue?

Hmm, ideally speaking EBITDA should reflect operating efficiency. So you can exclude other income. However, if you look the nature of other expense, you will notice a lot of expenses, which are core to the operations. Hence you cannot exclude this.

Karthik,

Nice explanation. I can download any organisation in the excel format from screener, as you suggested, but i did not see financial Ratio analysis in Data Sheet. Can you please include that in that excel or if you have any sample, can you please send me one

Thanks in advance.

Will try and come out with a module on Financial modeling which will include this.

Adding to above, I see ratios in ratestar website, but does not have enough ratio analysis, dont have link to download as excel and value looks different comparing to screeners.

Not really.

Hi Karthik.

1. What is the difference betwee ROA and ROCE apart from the tax shield number?

2. For financial leverage you have mentioned Avg total assets/Shareholders equity. What about Debt/ equity ratio.?

3.Doesnt ROA gives a better idea than ROE as it takes into consideration the debt as well. ?

Thanks

1) ROA measures the utilization of assets of the company, measured in terms of returns. ROCE, on the other hand, does the case for capital employed

2) Yes, D/E also gives you a sense of financial leverage

3) These are two individual ratios measuring two different aspects of the company

I am trying to search EBDITA margin in screener.in but I am not able to find that. Can you please help me with this.

EVEBITDA is available , is it the same thing?

Why don’t you check out – https://screener.smallcase.com/welcome

sir in case of pnb housing finance PAT has increased by 41% CAGR in the last 5 years while ROCE is only around 1.5% in last 5 years. why is there so much difference?

ROCE on banks can be a little tricky, Preetam….especially since a bank’s balance sheet is highly leveraged.

ROCE should be EBIT (1-T)/ Total capital, instead of EBIT/TC as we have to pay taxes.Please correct me in case you think other wise.

If you are considering a tax shield?

If we want to calculate EPS for 5 years, so how do you get data apart from last two years? Is Annual Report the only source?

Its not the only source, but its the best source.

hi, i am new to share market, I am doing positional trading. but have problem about dividend. i have REC share and dividend is already declared on 0n 15/07/2017 but i have confusion about, how long i have to hold this stock. is it till book closer date,or till complete book closer period. i have no clue please guide.

The dividends will be received by all those shareholders whose names show on the list of shareholders, on the record day. So you will have to wait till the record date.

thanks for your valued reply

Welcome!

In some annual reports they give Profit for the year value and then add/subtract profit/loss attributable to non-controlling interest and then they arrive at Profit attributable to owners of the parent.

Eg:

Profit for the Year = 2,713.51crs

Profit/(Loss) attributable to Non Controlling Interest = (1.41) crs

Thus, Profit attributable to Owners of the Parent = 2,714.92 crs

so, which PAT to take for calculation purposes?

Thanks

You need to consider – Profit attributable to Owners of the Parent

In Calculation of Net Pproft margin you have taken Total revenue amt 3482 crs as Net sales, but in calculation of Net sales/Avg Total assets (ROE), you have taken Operating revenue amt i.e. 3437 crs as Net sales.

So, which to take for Net sales, operating revenue or total revenue?

Ah, this could be a typo. You need to take the operative income (without including other income) into consideration.

So, In Net profit margin calculation it is mentioned that “this is same as PAT margin” in PAT margin it is Total Revenue , but here it is Net Sales, how both are same? please clarify

Thank you

Net sales are essentially revenue from the operations of the company, however, total revenue includes other incomes as well. Hence its prudent to consider revenue just from the operations for PAT margins.

hi sir, pls tel me how to forecast ebita for next year , say we are in 2017 so hw to forecaste or calculate ebita for 2018, 2019 and 2020. pls reply me here or mail me at [email protected]

This will require a little bit of financial modelling, Binay. Plan to take this up as an entire module sometime soon.

Hello,

How do you got 4 year EBITDA CAGR growth of 21%?

Ramana

How as in the technique to calculate the CAGR?

based on what you have taught above , i tried calculating EBIDTA for tata motors reffering to the latest Annual report in April 2017. I was unable to get the EBIDTA figure that they have mentioned

Also can you please throw some light on “Other comprehensive income/(loss):” as this is included in Profit and loss and shows loss of (27,494.57)

The Other comprehensive income – seems like the other income. Have you looked at the associated note? Also, are you looking at consolidated statements?

Yes sir and i dont seem to be arriving at any answer. Under other comprehensive income they seem to have mentioned a loss. Not sure if it needs to be considered and how important it is .

Also ROE as per money control is -11.91 .

I reffered the annual report from Tata motors website but unable to get -11.91 as ROE

Hmmm, not sure Vedant. Let me check the AR sometime soon.

sorry their consolidated return on equity is -12.83. dont understand how they are getting this figure

is there anything available on Financial modelling

Not yet, hopefully soon.

Hello sir

In the ROE first you wrote different formula to calculate and after Du Pont method you again wrote a different formula

1. RoE can be calculated as: [Net Profit / Shareholders Equity* 100]

2. However if you wish do a quick RoE calculation you can do so the following way:

RoE = Net Profits / Avg shareholders Equity

Please clear which is actual formula to calculate ROE except DU PONT Model

Thanks

I’d suggest you stick to – RoE can be calculated as: [Net Profit / Shareholders Equity* 100]

Thanks for your reply

Welcome!

No words to say… extraordinary work…

Please provide link to financial ratio pdf… bcoz module 3 is available upto 85 pages only..

Will check this, thanks!

Sorry… now again when i downloaded, it had full 172 pages…. i don’t know how this occurred… anyways thanks for your reply… i read many books… but now i became a great fan of your english writing skill… simply superb power of expression…

Happy learning, Rajesh 🙂

Hi Karthik,

I am a bit confused while calculating CAGR – PAT for NTPC. I have taken 5 yrs PAT data i.e.

2012 — 12590.78

2013 — 11403.61

2014 — 9986.34

2015 — 10182.81

2016 — 10713.94

I have used — (10713.94/12590.78)^(1/5) – 1. (ending value/beginning value)^(1/no. of years) – 1

Can you plz guide me in calculating CAGR here ?

YEs, that is the correct formula.

Sir,

Can financial leverage be calculated as follows

EBIT/EBT

If yes how is it different from the given formula

I’m not sure if this works 🙂

Hi Karthik,

I am looking at a company whose financial leverage ratio is 11 but it has zero long term debts. It has had zero long term debt for the last many years.

How do I interpret this?

sorry my mistake it is actually 1.1 and not 11 🙂

You got me wondering 🙂

How are you calculating financial leverage?

in Vishal pizza example ,for second case liability should be equal to 2000 and not 10,000 otherwise equation( shareholder equity=total asset -total liability ) will not hold!!!Please clarify.

Liability to a company includes shareholders’ fund, non-current liabilities, and current liabilities.

In this case, Equity Capital of Rs 8000 contributed by Vishal and Rs 2000 as external debt.

You can read more on this in Chapter 6 & 7 of this module that covers Balance Sheet

The balance sheet equation is Total Assets = Total Liabilities, which holds in the case of this example.

Hi,

in this documents ,it is stated that we need to compare the financial ratio with its peers

I think this may be true if two company size or same .

But in real scenario ,any companies size are not same as another .

in this case , how it will be effective if comparing the financial ratios with its peer?

can you please elaborate this ?

I agree, the comparison will be effective only if the companies you are comparing are of similar market cap size.

Hi karthik,

Currently i am reading Annual Report of Amar raja for year 2017. One page no. 9 there is a ratio called RONW%. can you please brief me on the same.

That is Return on Net worth, which is similar to ROE.

Hi Sir,

1.Why is not correct to compare the financial ratio of two different market cap companies?

2.As per balance sheet equation Assest = Liability,then does that mean ROCE (accounts for liability side) and ROA should be same?If so they why two different calculation?If not in what aspect they vary?

3.If the leverage ratio = Avg Asset /Avg Equity is less than 1, then where does the company kept its remaining equity cash?Because in this case no debt would be there,and if so then how come the balance sheet equation Assest = liability get balanced?

4.In ROCE why is PBIT considered ? Why can’t PAT+Interest be considered ? or simply PAT?

1) You can compare to get a sense of how the companies are doing. No harm in doing this. But be aware that the size of both the companies are different

2) No, this is not true. The denominator for both these ratios are different

3) Please dont mix up the ratios with the balance sheet equation

4) Becuase we are interested in operating profits.

Sir, Doubt Regarding Q&A No. 4…

Q&A 4)

But isn’t operating profit = PAT ?

So why was PAT or (PAT+interest) not considered in ROCE like any other profitability ratios?

And, what does taking EBIT in numerator signify instead of PAT?

Operating profits deducts just the operational expenses while finance charges, D&A, and interest is not. This is where the difference lies.

In ROA, how did the average tax rate (32% here) calculated?

Guess that was the average corporate tax rate applicable at that point in time.

While calculating ROE you are considering Net Profit Margin 9.2% but we have calculated it as 10.5% while calculating PAT margin . I’m confused here.

Ah, I need to check this, Gourav. Anyway, here is how I prefer to calculate the

Net profit margin = PAT / Operating Income.

Make sure you remove the other income component.

denominator should be total revenues i think so…..

You can take total revenue, no problem with that. However, if you want to figure out operating profit margins, then it is better to take operating revenue which is total revenue less other income.

Sir, When you calculated ROA your numerator was PAT + i(1-t) and I understood your explanation for using i(1-t).

But the similar logic applicable for ROCE. isn’t it? Why did you use EBIT in this case? TAX shield should be considered here as well…?

I guess this has been explained in the same chapter?

Sir, Why do we have two ratios ROA and ROCE, they are almost measuring the same thing or I am unable to understand the difference between the two because A in ROA is nearly equal to CE in ROCE

Asset is in the form of fixed assets, but CE in ROCE represents the capital employed.

How to calculate EBITDA and EBITDA Margin of Karur Vysya Bank or Bank Stock?

Total Expense – Total Revenue = EBITDA

Total Expense / Total Revenue = EBITDA Margin

As Tax shield is interest*tax rate , company wont have to pay this amount , so this can be considered as a profit .

So, Should the ROA formula be [Net income + interest*tax rate] / Total Average Assets instead of [Net income + interest*(1-tax rate)] / Total Average Assets

Can you clarify on this ?

The formula is Interest *(1-tax rate).

To rephrase my question, why is it Interest *(1-tax rate) , when profit in Tax shield is Interest *tax rate or am I missing something in this calculation

Hmm, I’m really not sure about the question. Let me relook at this, please. Thanks.

Shouldn’t the net profit margin be 10.5% rather than 9.2% as mentioned in Dupont Model or am i missing something??

You can simply divide the PAT by Operating revenues (not including other income) for a better estimate.

Hi

Is related party transactions impact on net profit of company ? If yes then how ?

Not necessary. Too many related party transactions are not a very healthy sign of a corporate governance.

I think in the calculation of ROA should be 0.7*(1-32%)=0.476

as we are calculating in crores so finance cost 7 should be converted in cr

=(367.4+0.476)/1955=18.81 %

Am i right sir ji …??

Yes, Pravin….all the numbers should be converted to Rupee crores…I’m assuming this is easier and intuitive for many of us.

Do we have to take “Net sales” as revenue from operations or can we take it from notes provided as “Sale of products” ?

Dhiraj, I’d suggest you look at the mainly P&L and then also the notes for better clarity.

Hi Karthik,

“Also note, if the RoE is high, it means a good amount of cash is being generated by the company, hence the need for external funds is less”.

How can this be said conclusively? What if the company has a lot of receivables thereby increasing the Net Income and the ROE. In such cases, the cash generated can be very less in fact.

It is generally true but not necessary to be true in all cases, hence you need to double check.

Hi,

RoE in DuPont formula coming to 25.9% and in simple way 30.31% which should I follow? Why the difference. Please explain

Du Point helps you dissect the details. However, I’d suggest you stick to the regular method for quick calculations.

Sir, I read at many places that ROA (Return on asset) and ROI (Retun on investment) are same.

However, they seem little bit different considering their denominator parts (as all investment may not necessarily be converted to or be equivalent to asset.)

How true is that?

Should I consider them the same?

No, treat them differently. ROA measures the effectiveness of fixed assets while ROI is a measure of how good the management is in terms of utilization of funds.

Hi Karthik,

Great work as always. Thanks for making accounting look easier for non accounting guys. Secondly, taking time out of your busy schedule to reply to your comments is commendable. I found it a bit difficult to understand the calculation of RoA. While calculating interest(1-Tax rate) , I believe interest is finance cost. From the annual report it is 7.18 million. As all our calculations are converted into crores, shouldn’t it be 0.7 crores? Secondly, how did you arrive at 32% tax rate ? Is it the corporate tax levied as per the Union budget ? If it is that, does the word “average tax rate” suggest that we should consider the average of corporate tax for the years under consideration? Meaning which, it is the average of corporate tax for the years 2013 and 2014 which is (33.99+33.99)/2 , which comes out to be 33.99%. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Kiran, thanks for the kind words 🙂

It should be in Crores.

Divide the tax paid by PBT and you will get the effective tax rate.

hi karthik,

can you please tell me how to calculate EBITDA CAGR growth again please ?

thank you

CAGR of EBITDA = ([Ending EBITA value/Initial EBITDA value]^(1/time period)-1)

Hi,

I have a question regarding PAT margin and Net Profit Margin. You’ve mentioned it’s the same yet we got PAT margin as 10.5% and Net Profit Margin as 9.2%, how is that so?

Please check if the Revenue included other income or has been excluded.

hi sir-Is any method to calculate Return on Equity (ROE) on quarterly basis?if any please explain it.

Hmmm, you can take the quarterly numbers and churn out the ratio, but then you won’t have an accurate information unless you compare this quarter with the previous quarter or this quarter versus the same quarter, the previous year.

hi sir-PAT Margin = [PAT/Total Revenues]

= 367 / 3482

=10.5 % Net Profit Margin: As I mentioned earlier, this is same as the PAT margin. From our calculation earlier, we know the Net Profit Margin for ARBL is 9.2% So why you took 9.2% but it has 10.5% in calculation earlier please explain? for calculating RoE.

The formula is correct. Few people do not like including other income in this equation, so you can exclude it. Guess I’ve done the same here.

Hi Sir-If you exclude other income than total revenues is 3482-45=3437 so PAT Margin = [PAT/Total Revenues]

= 367 / 3437

=10.6 % so Profit Margin for ARBL is 9.2% is not come this way so how it come 9.2% please explain in detail. thanks

I need to look at these numbers again, Vinay. Will get back to you. Meanwhile, can you please check earlier comments, maybe its resolved there? Thanks.

This was due to earlier error when PAT was taken to be 322.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out 🙂

hello Karthik – thanks firstly on sharing all these knowledge.

my question is on EBITDA calculation which you had mentioned as “operating revenues – operating expenses”

I was trying this on JBMAuto FY17 report although I managed to get all the inputs and arrived at a number, that number doesn’t seem to match with what was calculated in the annual report.

are there different ways to compute this?

please direct and thanks in advance.

Maybe they have included other income on the revenue side and finance cost/depreciation on the expense side?

Hi Karthik,

Does operating expenses include other expenses?

Yes, it does.

Hey Karthik

I was going through shoppers stop ar they have reported the ebtda of 22025 million but I am getting a higher ebtda than that.

So…….?

oops sorry i accidentaly added finance costs

So you need to check again 🙂

Sorry.

Does high ROE calculated by dupont method and high debt too drags a red flag?

Yes, that means the financial statements are leveraged.

Thanks.

The equation for RoE provided by the DuPont is essentially the same equation as the first one given to calculate RoE, so the answer obtained from both of these equations should be the same. So what exactly is the point of the DuPont formula? Is it just so that we calculate the individual entities Net Profit Margin, Asset Turnover and Financial Leverage so that we get a more rigorous view of the company and it’s situation to give us a better perspective to make a decision? Or is there more to the DuPont formula?

Yes, DuPont breaks up the fundamental components and gives a better understanding of each ratio.

Thank you.

Welcome!

Hello,

Sir while calculating ROA, what tax rate we have to consider now? the same 32% or there is any change after GST ?

Yup, the same tax rate.

Why we got two different values of ROE (one is 25.9 and another one is 30.31) of ARBL for the same fin year 2014 when it was calculated using two different formula?

I guess this has to do with the number of shares. Let me check this.

Hi karthik,

i was calculating the ebitda for amara raja batteries according to the formula mentioned above , but my values are completely different from what the ebitda values are showing on money control . Am i missing something here??

My Calcualtion:

[Total Revenue – Other Income] – [Total Expense – Finance Cost – Depreciation & Amortization]

[6299.35 – 66.37] – [5585.15 – 5.06 – 230.34] ; which comes out to be : 883.23 cr .

Whereas on moneycontrol the graph states the ebitda for march’18 as : 950.29 cr

(https://www.moneycontrol.com/financials/amararajabatteries/financial-graphs/ebidta-pbt-pat/ARB)

Hemant, I dont really trust MC for data. Can you please look at the annual report for the data?

So where can i confirm wether my calculations are correct or not. The ar here being used is quite old. Any website which publishes this data , which can be trusted?

Check out screener.in, the numbers there are fairly accurate.

Hello, I’m from Hong Kong. First, thanks for offering such useful insights for free and I love reading your articles that they are quite plain and easy to understand.

I read several annual reports and I found out that their financial statements are not expressed in HKD but RMB instead.

So, I’m wondering when I’m working out on the fundamental analysis, shall I consider the exchange rate, and on which rate i should base on?

Hey Sam, glad you liked the content on Varsity!

It would be difficult to consider exchange rate as you’d be dealing with historical data. Its best if you can work with HKD to get a fair and unbiased view on the business. Good luck!

Different websites give different values of ROCE for the same company. For example, for the year 2018, the ROCE for Ambika Cotton Mills are 20.26% in Valueresearch, 13.29% in Moneycontrol, 20.16% in Screener and as per my calculation it is 18.25%. Which one is correct?

Its best if you can calculate this on your own with data from Annual Report. In fact, this is what I prefer to do.

According to a statement in this article – “In 2011 the EBITDA was Rs.257 Crs and in 2014 the EBITDA is Rs.560Crs. This translates to a 4 year EBITDA CAGR growth of 21%.”

I think it should be 3 year EBITDA growth not 4 years because starting point is taken the year 2011 and the end point is 2014. Hence it is growing over 3 years. As per my calculations CAGR will be 29.30 % (approx.)

Please let me know if I’m right or wrong.

March’11, March’12, March’13, March’14 – so 4 years right?

Sorry. I didn’t understand.

On 31st March 2011, EBITDA was 257 crs. Now, from March 2011 to March 2014, the time duration is 3 years. So, the 257 crs is growing over 3 years and finally becoming 560 crs in March 2014.

So you have EBITA reported for –

1) Year ending March’11 (257 Crs)

2) Year ending March’12

3) Year ending March’13

4) Year ending March’14 (560 Crs)

So that makes it 4 years right?

Hey Karthik,

What are ‘statement of changes in equity’ ?

This gives you the changes in the equity structure, Ram.

Thanks.

Welcome, Ram!

Hi Karthik,

I was reading through Maruti Suzuki’s annual report and I noticed that, excise duty was included in expenses and not deducted in the revenue, so while taking Net sales should I deduct the excise duty or not?

Not really, treat it as an expense like the way the company is doing.

But in ARBL’s annual report the excise duty was deducted from the revenue, it wasn’t included in expenses and while making the calculation we didn’t consider it.

So…………?

Most companies like to deduct the excise duty and show net sales, some prefer to treat it under expense. Anyway, post-GST, I don’t think ED exists.

Hi sir,

I was calculating EBITDA for HDFC bank for year 2018. most commonly used formula was Total income ( 95461.70) – operating Expense(27711.50) = 67750.10 , So how to calculate EBITDA Margin from this. By the given Formula 67750.10/ 95461.70 = 70%.

But in other websites it was given as 14%. Could you please explain sir.

Are you sure you are dealing with consolidated numbers?

EBITA margins = (Operating Revenue – Operating Expense)/Operating Revenue.

Yes sir,

I am talking about consolidated numbers, could you please take a look at this link.

https://www.topstockresearch.com/INDIAN_STOCKS/BANKS/FundamentalAnalysisOfHDFC_Bank_Ltd.html

Would interest be added with operating expense Since for banks major chunk of the expenditure is Interests.

Hmm, frankly looking at the financials of banking companies is not straight forward, Divakar. Let me get back to you on this.

Hi Karthik,

You have stated that in the article above that Operating Expenses= Total Expenses- Finance Costs- D&A.

I think other expenses should also deducted from the total expenses to get to the operating expenses.

Please correct me.

Thats right Ram, the total expenses includes other expenses.

OK.

But I don’t understand that in operating revenues, other revenue is deducted but in operating expenses, other expenses are included

How?

Although its termed ‘Other Expenses’, these are expenses that the company incurs while running the operations. Like power bills, stationary bills, communication etc. I’d suggest you look up under the notes of the company.

Hi Karthik,

You have stated that in the article above that ‘ratios should be analyzed both at a single point in time and as an indicator of broader trends over time’

What does that mean?

I just meant to say that the ratio has relevance from both the historical and the current state. Meaning, you have to check the ratio on a year on year basis and on a 5 – 8 year basis.

Good morning sir…

“ratios should be analyzed both at a single point in time and as an indicator of broader trends over time”

Sir this is 14th point from take way from the chapter.

Sir i am unable to understand this last point.

All this means is to figure out how the company is doing today (single point of view) and how it has done in the past (broader trends over time). A good company shows consistency across both the measures of time.

can we use the same methodology in calculating the ROA of banks since banks are highly leveraged. ROA = (pat+interest(1-taxrate))****, can we deduct the tax rate from the finance cost of banks?

Hmm, that can be a bit tricky, Robin. Let me check like I have mentioned earlier, bank’s books are slightly different.

Karthik as you stated that ‘Other income is income by virtue of investments and other non operational activity. Including other income in EBITDA calculation would clearly skew the data. For this reason, we have to exclude Other Income from Total Revenues.’ then why do we include other expenses in operating expenses

No, we dont include. Other income is included in the overall income, but not income from operations. Income from operations = Total income – other revenue.

Karthik as mentioned above the average tax rate was 32% when the article was written , is it still the same?

Haven’t checked recently, but I’d guess it hovers around 28-30%.

Kathik,

Could you please do me a favour, in INOX leisure’s Annual Report of FY17 the total revenue for year ended 31 March 2016 is stated as 8087.81 lakhs and for the same of year ended 31March 2016 in FY 2016 the total income is stated as 7749 lakhs

I cannot understand why the total revenue for the same year is stated different for the same year?

Oops sorry I mispelled your name

Very sorry:(

Oh, thats alright. I have typos in almost every line I write 🙂

This is quite common for companies to restate the numbers and make few corrections. This can be attributed to late revenue recognition/suspense account etc. However, you need to ensure the numbers are not off by a large degree (less than 5% of the initially stated number). In this case, I see it comes to 4.5%, which is ok.

Hi,

You have used ROCE formula as [Profit before Interest & Taxes / Overall Capital Employed], where Overall Capital Employed = Short term Debt + Long term Debt + Equity. However, on researching all websites puts up Capital Employed= Total assets – current liabilities.

With this, Capital employed = 2139.44-633.7 = 1505.74

ROCE = 537.7/ 1505.74 = 35.7%

Which formula do you suggest and why? Please explain.

Hi, please provide some inputs on the above.

Hi Karthik,

Please provide some inputs.

Inputs about?

How Did You Get The Figures For Total Asset For FY 13 & 14 I Am Unable to Calculate The Average Total Asset of Amar Raja Due to Deviations In figure Mentioned here and used by Me ( Total Asset For FY 14 is 1987 how did you come to the figure of 2139?)

Jay, where are you checking the values from? Are you looking up on the annual report, if not I’d suggest you take the values from the annual report?

Hi Karthik,

I have 2 queries:

1. For EBITDA Margin in one of the comments you have suggested to consider

Total Revenue – Operating Expenses = EBITDA but in module and another few comments you have suggested to consider Operating Revenue – Operating Expenses = EBITDA.

2. In Varun Beverages AR 2017, they have used EBITDA Margin = EBITDA / Net Sales & PAT Margin = PAT/Net Sales, but instead of net sales you have considered Operating Revenue. Please advise which to consider

1) For a true representation of operating EBITDA, you should consider (in my opinion): Total Operating revenue – Operating expenses

2)EBITDA/Net Sales is good if you want to consider the EBITDA margin as a percentage of sales. EBITDA/Op Revenue is good if you want to consider the EBITDA margin as a percentage of revenues. So it really depends on what you want to analyze.

Thanks a lot Karthik. Greatly appreciate your lessons. It has been very helpful. Is there a reference material you suggest to get these formulas from a single source? Every place has different formulas and its very confusing for a starter like me. Also, even though the values from balance sheet & p&l match with various websites, the margin ratios do not match up and i get worried thinking i might be doing something wrong. Kindly suggest.

Rohan, for this reason, I do not trust 3rd party sources. I like to look at the annual report of the company. I’m not sure about the single reference source, but probably I’ll try and put this up in the module on Financial Modeling.

Hello Sir,

I am trying to calculate ROE of ICICI Securities, Could you assist me calculate Asset turnover of this company as am struggling figuring Net Sales. Please help.

Rejo, Asset Turnover = Revenue/Net asset

This is a straight forward equation. Where are you getting stuck?

Check this – https://www.tijorifinance.com/company/icici-securities-limited#bs

Hi Sir,

What does it mean by positive CAGR Revenue growth, whereas negative values for CAGR EBITDA, CAGR PAT and CAGR EPS… Unable to figure out if the company is worth investing.

Also, what does negative value of Return on Asset ratio and EBIT imply? Is it a sign not to invest in the company?

Positive CAGR is when the company is growing but negative is when the company is de growing.

Yes, I’d avoid investing in companies with -ve growth numbers.

How to find tax rate which show in ROA interest*(1-taxrate)

The company would have stated that in the AR. Else, you can divide the Income-tax paid by PBT to get a sense of the tax paid (tax rate) of the company.

Hey Karthik,

As mentioned above in the article that PAT margin is same as Net profit Margin then why is the value of PAT margin given as 10.5% and the value of Net Profit Margin given as 9.2%?

Ah, must be accounting for other income. But yeah, both are essentially the same.

So Karthik should other income be included in Net sales?

And one more thing while calculating Net profit Margin in Financial Ratios Part 1 the value of net sales has been taken as 3437 Crs.

and while calculating the value of Gross Profit Margins the value of net sales is taken as 3404 Crs. I think while calculating Net Sales for Gross Profit Margins the values of ‘Sale of Services’ and ‘Other Operating income’ were excluded.

So……..?

If you want to be conservative (I’d), then I’d not include other income in net sales. Sales of services are actually core operations, although they do not contribute much to the overall revenues. So this has to be included. You can exclude other operating income after studying the constituents of it.

Hi Sir,

How to apply Dupont model for Bank stocks, What do i consider sales?

Hmm, you’ll have to consider the net income.

Sir, profit of a company grows; but not the EPS. Why? please explain

The only possible reason is the dilution of shares via say bonus/split or even issuing new equity shares.

I don’t know where to post, so posting here only, ordered kids books the rupee tales more than a week, but still didn’t get any info about it,.

secondly,, called zerodha, they say they won’t help coz its different section, neither they provided a contact number.

feeling flummoxed, what I am supposed to do

Sandeep, apologies for this. Can you please write an email to [email protected]? Thanks.

Can you please explain how you arrived at 9.2% for the net profit margin? Because if I include other income, I get (367/3482)*100= 10.54% and if I exclude other income, I get (367/3436)*100= 10.68% Why is there a difference in RoE calculation for both the methods?

Hmm, I need to double-check this. However,

Net Profit margin = PAT/ Operational Income

I’d prefer to exclude other income from this.

[…] Click here to read more about ROCE calculation here […]

You have mentioned “Net Profit Margin (Net Profits/ Net Sales*100)” is nothing but the “PAT margin”

PAT margin is = PAT/Total Revenue

That means “Net Profits = PAT” and “Net Sales = Total Revenue”

If this is true, when calculating: “Asset Turnover = Net Sales / Average Total asset”

You have taken “Net Sales” as 3437Crs which is “Net revenue from operations” not “Total Revenue”

So doubt is whether “Net Sales” is “Net revenue from operations” or “Total Revenue”?

Bipin, the thing is you want operational efficiency, then you need to remove other income. Which means Operational revenue = Total income – other income. I personally prefer to take operational income and exclude the other income component.

ROCE = [Profit before Interest & Taxes / Overall Capital Employed]

Isn’t Profit before Interest & Taxes is Profit before Taxes + Finance Cost?

Hmm, no, you need to deduct the FInance cost as well.

On calculation of Return on Asset (RoA):

It is mentioned that The Interest amount (finance cost) is Rs.7 Crs, accounting for the tax shield it would be 7* (1 – 32%)

But actually the finance cost is 7 mill = 0.7 crs tax shield it would be 0.7* (1 – 32%)

I need to double-check this.

RoE calculation

RoE calculated DuPont analysis 25.9% does not match with (Net Profits / Avg shareholders Equity) 30.31%

This is because Net Profit Margin 9.2% is not correct – the correct value is 10.68% => (Profi After Tax / Operating Revenue) * 100 = (367/3436) = 10.68

If is corrected – the RoE in both equation matches to 30.31% as expected

Ah, thanks for pointing this out Bipin, will help others as well.

Hello sir, I have few queries

1. How to identify capex heavy businesses

2. Are the retained earnings and reserve / surplus are same

3. Where to find replenishing and maintenance costs of capex heavy business in balance sheet

1) Such companies usually have heavy ‘Fixed assets’. Also, look for CAPEX spend on a year on year basis

2) Retained earnings is a part of reserves, but has other components as well

3) Under the other expense section in P&L

Thanks.. Please correct me

1. CAPEX Spend – one should find in – cash flow statement – Cash from Investing Activity – fixed asset purchased (Payment for purchase of property, plant and equipment)

2. Retained earnings – where to find.?

Hello Sir,

I have doubt about ‘EBIT’

as while calculating EBITDA we don’t add D&A

but still why we reduce D&A from EBITDA to get EBIT (EBIT=EBITDA-D&A) ?

Thanks In advance sir

EBITDA should represent operating income without D&A, hence.

Hello Karthik,

Thanks for the simple, concise and wonderful explanation.

Just writing to inform you that Chapter 9 has been repeated twice in the PDF; hence can you please amend it.

Thanks in advance

Thanks, for pointing this out, Ishani. Will get this checked.

Sir,

I have two questions:

1. Is EBITDA Margin same as Gross Profit Margin ?

2. Is “Profit & Loss Statement” same as “Income Statement” ?

Thanks

1) No

2) Yes

Sir,

Why in EBITDA Margin, operating revenue is considered but in PAT Margin, total revenue is considered ?

Thanks

Sir

Kindly explain these terms:

1. Altman Z score

2. Pitroski F score

3. Modified C score

4. Where these are used and their importance ?

Regards

Need to learn them myself 🙂

Hi Karthik Sir,

1. After the Dupont Analysis, the ROE as per the Dupont method is 25.9% whereas as per the normal formulae it is 30.31%. Why is there a difference? Which one is to be preferred? Is it that when the company has a lot of debt, the Dupont method should be used?

2. Why do we use the ” Net profit + Interest post tax ” only for ROA ? Why not for ROE where we only consider net profit part ?

3. When should we use ROCE and when ROE ? Is it that when the company has a lot of debt, ROCE is preferrable because ROE is overstated due to high debt?

Kindly clearify.

Thank you. I am huge admirer of your Varsity content.

1) Ideally, both should result the same value. In case of a difference, stick to the formula

2) The interest post-tax bit is to factor in the finance cost of the asset. In a sense, we are isolating the efficiency of the asset purchase and figuring out its true value

3) Yup, in case of debt, ROE can be skewed.

Thanks a lot for that fast reply.

How about a module on Equity research, valuations and modeling ?

Eq research and Financial Modelling with be a separate module. I will do it this year sometime 🙂

Financial leverage:For every 1rs of equity Arbl supports 1.61 of assets ?

It means for every 1 rs of equity the co.receives 1.61rs of assets (is it correct)

It does not receive, its actually the assets already owned by the company.

Hello Karthik

I have seen multiple sources explaining that Capital employed = Equity + Non current liabilities or Total assets – Current liabilities

In your formula you have included short term debt, isn’t that a part of current liabilities ?

Non current liabilities or Total assets —–> But non current liabilities is not total asset right?

Seems I wasn’t able to frame my question correctly.

I have seen multiple sources explaining that Capital employed = (Equity + Non current liabilities) or (Total assets – Current liabilities)

In your formula you have included short term debt, isn’t that a part of current liabilities ?

Ah, short term debt is current in nature. My bad if I have taken that.

Hi Karthik,

The Company’s EDITDA is not increased linearly.

How do we calculate the CAGR %. Could you please elaborate on this.

Year 5: 15,206.51

Year 4: 13,226.10

Year 3: 10,734.83

Year 2: 14,702.89

Year 1: 8,793.29.

Should we check for 10years data and compare. how do we analyze such data?

EBITDA CAGR = (EBITDA of Year 5/EBITDA ofYear1)^(1/5)-1

Well, if the EBITDA is fluctuating every year like its increasing a year and then it decreases next year so how do we analyze this senario.

Well, that shows the cyclicality of the business Sumit. You have to incorporate that into your analysis.

I mean if we take the above data the growth is not linear so does this mean the company is not stable?

No, it just means its a cyclical business. You have to understand the reasons for this and figure a way around.

Hello! While computing ROCE, profit before interest and taxes has been taken as 537.7 Crs. How was this amount computed as profit before tax amounts to Rs. 536.7. Also, shouldn’t finance costs be deducted from this?

I need to check why the small difference exists. You get a tax shield with Finance costs, right?

Hello Sir,

Why Above Calculated ROE is different , it should have been same from both DU point and Quick Method.?

As in the DUPoint, the denominator and the numerator cancels out with one another eventually leaving us with the original RoE formula ?

It should be, Sumit. I cant see to figure why the difference though 🙂

Thank you sir for this tutorial.

Just had one query. The financial ratio defined on each website is different.

For example GPM, OPM, NPM value displayed on ET Markets is different from the values displayed on ICICI Direct. Kindly guide, from where we can fetch this actual data.

Best is to look at the data from the Annual Report and calculate these numbers yourself.

Do financial ratios make sense in case of companies like IRCTC where you don’t have any peer to compare?

I checked for IRCTC’s P/E and while I write this, it’s at 74. But how do I know if this is fair? I don’t have any company to compare with.

Is it safe to say that one can’t make much sense out of valuation ratios in these cases as there is no peer to compare?

Absolutely, this is a problem when you don’t have peers to compare and get a sense of what is fair. But another way to look at it is the fact that there are no peers is perhaps the reason for such high valuations.

Hi Karthik

While calculating ROE, is it ok if we take the same PAT margin as net profit margin ? Or do we have to calculate separately with including or excluding of other income amount with pat ?

You can take the net profit.

Hi Karthik,

While calculating ROCE is it ok if we use the “CE = Total assets – Current liability” formula ?

Instead, you can directly take debt + equity, right?

PBIT in ROCE

Should be

541.272 approx 541

How I show you

PBIT= PBT+Exceptional items special in this case+Finance cost(Interest)

=536.670+3.884+0.718

= 541.272

In wrong please correct it.

Let me check this.

Or

PBIT or EBIT= EBITDA – DA(Depre. n Amo)

in this case

If other income is consistent it should be added in EBITDA otherwise it should not. for Amara it should be

so

EBITDA= Total Revenue – Operating expenses= 3482-2876= 606 cr

EBIT = 606 – 65= 541 cr

Otherwise we don’t consider other income

then it should be

EBITDA = Operating revenue – Operating Expenses = 3437-2876=561 cr

EBIT = 561 – 65= 496 cr

or mentioned above

PBIT= PBT+Exceptional items special in this case+Finance cost(Interest)-other income

=536.670+3.884+0.718-(45.514) =495.758 appox 496 cr

In P&L other income included for calculation we have to cut it to get true value

calculations are so simple , you can do at ease

Please go through it & tell me which is correct either 541 or 496 ?

Debt 91.19 95.04 84.07 87.17 84.28

EBIT 261 223 321 431 { 541 }

Debt/EBIT 35% 42.61% 26.19% 20.22% 15.57%

(%)

Please see at bracket , data in equity research part 1

means EBIT I discussed above is right.

How to get net income???

What is the difference between net profit and net income??

Net income is on the revenue side, profit is after all the expense.

Hello sir, I want to know how did you arrive at Shareholder’s Equity figure in Pizza example given under ROE ratio calculation

As you have mentioned in “Understanding Balance Sheet Statement (Part-1)”, in Section 6.1, you have given formula of Shareholder’s Equilt = Asset – Liability. And for Balance Sheets, Asset should always be equal to Liability.

Then shouldn’t Shareholder’s equity always be zero?

Also, you have mentioned that Shareholders Euiqty and Net Worth are the same terms. I was going through the comment section and one person had similar doubt to which you replied that

Net worth = Assets – Liability

Shareholders equity = Share Capital + Reserves

I’m referring to share capital, which is different from share holder’s equity.

Sir, in which part are you referring to share capital?

Check the balance sheet section (liabilities side).

Sir, why do we account for Tax shielding in the formula of ROA only. If the interest paid is also going to a stakeholder of company then shouldn’t we consider Tax shielding for ROE & ROCE ?

I need to figure this as well. But intuition says money is raised to buy assets, so you factor in the tax shield to reflect the true yield on the asset.

Hello Sir,

What does it mean if the RoE is consistently decreasing although the net profits are increasing every year. So the rate of growth of share capital is higher than the rate at which profits are growing. so what does this say about company?

Thanks!

It means the debt is increasing.

Dear Karthik

Thanks for all your immediate reponse.

I have few doubts.

1)Regarding measuring ROE= Net Profit/(Equity)….And Equity = Share capital+Total Accumulated profit.In that case the total equity for ABRL should be 17.081+1197.255 =1214(Cr).But for measuring ROE you have taken the Equity to be 1211 Cr. Is that correct.Kindly share your inputs

2) Can you kindly share some genuine websites where we can compare all these Financial values for companies and competitors.Out of Tickertape, Tijori and Ratestar which is more reliable.Also share some other reliable websites.

1) Equity = Share Capital + Gen Reserves . I need to check why there is a minor error

2) I prefer screener, tijori, and tickertape.

Dear Karthik

Thanks for the response.

For calculating the total equity we can add share capital + Total Accumulated profit(in Surplus column also).Please correct me

Yes. Or you can consider shareholders equity = share capital + reserves and surplus.

sir,

In ROA part the intrest part(finance cost) is taken as rs. 7cr.

but according do p/l statement finance cost is rs 0.7cr(7 million)

kindly check and correct if i am wrong

Need to check this, thanks.

Sir does the value of ROE differs using different formulas? And the Net profit margins and the PAT margins value were different, a little confused here!

No, it should not differ Mohit.

Sir, While calculating the PAT Margin the formula given is PAT/Total Revenue.

1) While calculating the ROE using the DuPont Model, the first part of it,’ Net profit Margin’, you have written under it that it is nothing but the PAT margin. But In PAT margin we are using Total revenue as a denominator and in Net profit margin we are using Net sales(Total revenue-Other income) as a denominator, so how is it same? Please correct it.

It is not, it should be consistent. I’d prefer to ignore the other income bit to identify just the operating efficiency.

Sir Formulas of some ratios are little bit different from the formula of ratios given on investopedia or other sites-

For Example- ROA- Net income/ Avg. total assets, But you have added interest*(1- tax rate), so the formula of ratios given on screener.in are correct or not?

Hmm, that is to take into consideration of tax shield. Actually its the same.

Sir, fundamental Analysis and the derivates module will make it a little bit easy to clear CFA?

It will help for sure, but I not sure if it will make it easier.

why we used ” Interest *(1- tax rate) ” as tax shield? is there any specific logic backing this formulae?

Have explained that in the chapter itself right? Serves as a tax shield.

hi sir. Thank you for the article.

My query: In calculating Asset Turnover – should we use ” Revenue from Operations ” or ” Overall Revenue including Other Income ” ? Because while calculating PAT Margin we are using “Overall Revenue including Other income”.

Please clarify. Thanks.

If you want to take a conservative approach, then its better to take the revenue from operations.

RoA = [Net income + interest*(1-tax rate)] / Total Average Assets

In RoA, why is it Net Income and not PAT, where for calculation we took 367 cr for Net Income. Doesn’t Net income literally means Operating revenue? Or did I perceive it wrong?

Net income is post-tax, we are trying to figure the operating efficiency here, so operating income is a better parameter.

interest in “interest *(1- tax rate)” while calculating ROA, suppose to be .7 Cr, because in PL statement it was in millions.

Let me check this, Arun. Thanks.

A few queries:

1. In RoE calculation part, “Net Profit Margin: As I mentioned earlier, this is same as the PAT margin. From our calculation earlier, we know the Net Profit Margin for ARBL is 9.2%”

But in PAT margin it is 10.5% instead of 9.2%. Pls, check the error and confirm.

2.In RoA “Interest amount (finance cost)” is taken as Rs.7 Crs, which Rs. 0.7 in the annual report.

And how did you calculate average tax rate as 32%? I am having confusion in this.

1) Will do

2) Avg Tax is an avg of taxes paid over the last few years.

Thanks Karthik. I have been going through the stuff and its quite interesting and designed in such a fashion which creates interest in Non finance guys like me.

One point on ROE – Understand the Du Pont method which gives fair picture. To get true ROE – while Calculating ROE can we do this way?

ROE = (Net Profit * 100)/(Shareholders Equity+debt)

I believe this will reduce the debt contribution and will not bump up ROE unnecessary.

Just a thought to use this as a short cut.

Regards

Then this won’t be ROE in its strict sense right 🙂

Sir, I did not get 2) point. Can you pls explain?

Where are you getting stuck at Suraj?

When I calculate avg taxes in %, it gives a huge number.

Example: Tax for FY19 – 1337.97

Tax for FY20 – 1580.00

So, avg tax =(1337.97+1580.00)/2= 1521.73, in % = 152173.00%

The example that you have given has 32% avg tax rate.

pls, let me know what am I missing.

Ah no, to get the avg tax, calculate the tax paid every year in terms of %. So suppose this years tax is 32Crs over an income of 100Cr, its 32%. Likewise, calculate for last 5 yrs and then take the average of the %.

Got it. Thanks.

Good luck, Suraj!

Bro

How did you arrived at 32% while calculating ROA. ?

Ganesh, I guess the calculations are there in the chapter itself.

Aren’t PAT margin and return on sales the same thing? Both are essentially Net profit/Sales

You can refer to it as whatever you want, as long as the numerator and denominator are the same 🙂

You mentioned PAT margin and Net Profit Margin are same. But PAT margin is calculated based on Total Revenue, which I assume also includes other income. While Net Profit Margin is calculated on Net Sales. Can you please clarify?

Yup, if you want to calculate the profitability based on the operations then you need to ignore the other income.

Hi sir,

While discussing about ROA, you have mentioned about “tax rate” in the formula.

Is this the corporate tax rate paid by the companies to the government??

Thats right.

Hi Karthik,

Awesome job with the whole thing. Congratulations!

Quick question: If there any difference between Operating Margin and EBITDA Margin? I don’t know why but I don’t find EBITDA Margin on any of the major websites. All I see is Operating Margin.

Just wanted to make sure if they are both the same.

They are essentially the same, used interchangeably.

Where can we download the Financial statement for a stock for last 10-12 years in Excel format with all column ?

Guess you pinged the same on Twitter as well. Try Tijori finance 🙂

What is the acceptable financial leverage ratio for investing?

Nothing like that, depends on the sector.

In the ROA how do you get the Tax Rate?

Why do you ask? How are these two related?

valuable lessons

How is ROCE different from ROA as total assets will always be equal to total capital employed .

and why tax shield effect is not given in calculation of ROCE then?

ROCE includes the debt component also, while ROA does not. This is the main difference. Otherwise, they both are similar profitability indicators.

Sir profit margin is 10.5%,you have took 9.2%

Could you explain how 9.2% is calculated

Thank you🤗

Isit? I need to check this again 🙂

Sir what does ROA of 19.03% mean, and is the 32% average tax rate now is unchanged

Tax rates have come down. ROA is the return the company earns for every unit of investment on assets.

Sir what tax rate shall I use while calculating ROA

And for 100rs investment on asset the company has earned 19.03% return on this, am I right sir

Looking forward for how net profit is 9.2% while actual profit margin is 10.3%

Depends on the company in question. Btw, for ROA, try using the earnings without taking in other income in consideration.

Very good

Hi, Just to add more value to the learners, will it be good to add the source of information like, either Balance sheet or Cash flow or P&L sheet.

For ex. Overall Capital Employed = Short term Debt + Long term Debt + Equity.

Not all will have explicit wordings, so, it will be good to add that where to look to get these details from the Company supplied annual reports.

Noted, will try and add these references.

Second best private bank in India has ROE of ~12. Does this mean, shareholders aren’t making money? This bank commands high valuation for more than a decade

Maybe because its the 2nd best 🙂

Hi Karthik thanks a lot, It’s an amazing and well-structured course. Learned a lot of things from these. My question is not related to the content, I want if somewhere I can see the market share of different companies for a product and how big a monopoly is. Let’s say noodles, a very simple example, is there any way I can get a good idea about the market share of different companies and the growth of different companies in this market segment.

Also, are there any groups or communities where people discuss stocks and related doubts because sometimes I am not able to understand a few things in the analysis and no one to ask?

Thanks.

This depends on the sector, while few sectors like AUTO has industry associations like SIAM which publishes such data, many sectors don’t have this data. However, usually the annual report is a good place to get this data.

Shouldn’t the finance cost be 0.71 crore instead of 7 crore in the ROA calculation ?

Need to check this again, its been a while.

Sir pl post details calculation of 9.2%for PAT margin

Have posted the same right?

Should ‘Other Comprehensive Income’ be considered for calculating PAT Margin?

Yes, you can.

Should ‘Profit/(Loss) and Tax Expenses’ of discontinued operations be considered for calculating PAT?

That will be treated in the top line (revenue section) itself right?

In the HUL’s annual report for financial year 2019-20, it’s treated separately.

How to calculate ‘tax rate’ for calculating ROA?

Tax paid over PBT should give you the effective tax rate.

In ROA finance cost should not be 0.7 Crs ?

where can find tax rate in annual report as it is taken 32% in ROA ?

That is to be calculated, Arjun.

Sir, I think in EBITDA calculation interest expense, taxes, depreciation and amortization, should not be deducted from operating expense, because as the name suggest EBITDA is earnings BEFORE interest, tax, depreciation and amortization are deducted , not AFTER. I guess that’s the nuance difference between operating profit and EBITDA.

What you say?

Yeah, if its operating profit you are interested in calculating, then I guess it makes sense to keep it to operating income minus operating expense.

Hi Karthik,

In the example of EBITDA CAGR 21%…. I guess we should consider 3 yrs as we started with 257 Cr and ended up with 560 after 3 years…it should give us CAGR of 29.64%…correct me if I am wrong?

I think we need to include year 1 as well, right?

Sir, what is the tax rate to be assumed while calculating ROA? Which tax rate needs to be considered?. I need some more clarity upon the same.

From the P&L, divide the tax paid by PBT and you will get the tax rate.

Also, in ROCE calculation, the profit before interest and tax (PBIT) amounts to 543.85. So, why you have taken the figure of 537.7 in the calculation above?

Sumit, I need to check this again.

sir, Can you explain me how you take 7cr for finance cost while calculating ROA…. Waiting for your reply

We have discussed this in the queries, right? Can you please check this again?

Dear Sir,

How to find the Return on Invested Capital. When i searched the were i’m getting a formula ROIC = NOPAT / Invested Capital. Were NOPAT = EBIT * (1-Tax Rate); Invested Capital = Long term Debt + Short term Debt + Equity. In some websites i have seen Invested Capital = Long term Debt + Short term Debt + Equity – Cash – Goodwill. I have tried each and every formula but not getting the correct value for the ROIC. I have tried my result in Dabur India but all my numbers are wrong when i look at the Annual report of Dabur India. Please do help me out to arrive at the correct formula.

Regards,

Sonjoe Joseph.

Sonjoe, look for the return of capital, it is the same. Have explained that in the chpater.

While Calculating ROA, you are using 7 Crs as Finance Cost (Interest Amount). But in the P&L Statement, it is showing as 7.18 million. Can you please check

I guess this was discussed in the comments, can you please check? Thanks.

Company gets tax shield, so why we add interest*(1-tax rate) ? Shouldn’t it be interest*taxrate since that is the amount which is saved from taxes and considered extra income? interest*(1-taxrate) is what would be remaining after taxes, but since we are saved from tax, extra earning will be interest*taxrate.

What did I understand wrong here?

Hmm, I think you’ve got the math wrong (meanwhile, I will also double check) interest*tax rate reduces the entire amount, right?

Hi, I am confused on how to calculate the EBITDA margin as many sources included other income too. I computed the EBITDA margin for the Amaraja batteries for FY20 based on the above logic, I got the value around 1098.56 whereas the tickertape provides the value around 1,153.59 and in the annual report, it was mentioned as 1125. The only difference in the EBITDA from my calculation and others is (1153.59 – 1098.56) = 55.03 which is equal to other income mentioned in the annual report as 55.05. All the above numbers are in crores

Sources:

Tickertape: https://www.tickertape.in/stocks/amara-raja-batteries-AMAR/financials?checklist=basic&period=annual&statement=income&view=normal

Economic times: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/amara-raja-batteries-ltd/profitandlose/companyid-12713.cms

Gautam, there is no harm to include other income. I personally don’t like to because I want to get a true sense of operational profitability. Remember, these are all ratios for your own purpose. Use it the way you’d want in terms of information required. You can compare your results with others, but then you need to ask why you’d want to do that. But do ensure you are looking at consolidated financial statements.

Just reffering to the ROE formula, the ROE doesn’t reflect the amout of debt in the formula but the the formula is Net Profit/Shareholders equity *100.

Here the Net profit will come after deducting all the interest, so this will automatically reduce the ROE, so how it becomes a drawback

It has an indirect effect. ROE can be broken down (Dupont) and one of the last components is Asset Turnover, which considered assets, which can be financed by debt. Higher the debt, more the assets, more the leverage.

Small Typo at one place :

EBIDTA Margin = EBITDA / [Total Revenue – Other Income]

Error – EBIDTA instead of EBITDA

Noted, thanks Soumya.

Great effort Team Zerodha.

Thanks for the content.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012015/what-difference-between-ebit-and-operating-income.asp#:~:text=Key%20Takeaways-,The%20key%20difference%20between%20EBIT%20and%20operating%20income%20is%20that,and%20income%20taxes%20are%20deducted.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

The key difference between EBIT and operating income is that EBIT includes non-operating income, non-operating expenses, and other income.

all the sites i saw included other income.

http://theaccountingandtax.com/financial-tips/financial-modeling-and-valuation/income-statement/

If other income is consistent it should be added in EBITDA otherwise it should not.

can u elaborate on other income inclusion or exclusion and reasons in general and for company lets say infosys

I’d prefer to exclude it, just to estimate the profitability of operations. However, if the other income part is small, you may as well include it.

i am unable to find total debt to equity ratio for infosys2019-20 as i could not find short term and long term borrowing line items.how to calculate it. i am learning to calculate financial ratios from annual report. different websites have different values.which should i take as reference to check.

Infosys has no debt, it is a debt-free company.

Hello Karthik sir, I’ve got some doubts, if the company instead of getting a profit after tax gets a loss after tax how would we calculate the margin, would that be a negative percentage?

There are no margins in this case 🙂

Hi,

The finance cost in the P&L statement is INR 7.18 Million so shouldn’t it be 0.7 crores and not 7 crores?

Checking.

karthik sir, while calculating EBITDA Margin finance cost is take as 0.7 (as it is quoted in millions in balance sheet)

My question is, why is finance cost taken as 7 while calculating ROA!?

is it an typo error?

Ah, not sure why finance cost is considered. Need to double-check this. Btw, do check the module on Financial modelling will be dealing with this and a lot more.

Hello Karthik,

Going through your hardwork as we all can see here thank you soo much for putting this efforts. Seriously learning through the notes that you have provided really helping me understand the stock market. Well, to be honest I’m not soo keen with the formulas and the calculations involved but that PAT what you have calculated with ‘ROE’ is 9.2 but as i can see the PAT from the previous chapters suggests it 10.5 or i saw your comment to calculate with equity shareholder but still the value is not getting anywhere around 9.2 . I am new to this and started learning just a couple of weeks ago don’t understand enough might be making mistakes while calculations would you please help me understand PAT-9.2 how did you got that.

And i really appreciate your work thank you once again.

Thanks for the kind words, Robinson. I’d suggest you keep track of this module here – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/financial-modelling/ , I’ll be discussing this in more detail.

Sir return on assets the finance cost is

7 million but you wrote 7 crore can you check sir?

Thank you sir

I will, Aravind.

What is the difference between Overall capital (As in case ROCE) which includes both equity and debt (both long term and short term) AND Total asset as in case of ROA?

In ROA, you only take the netblock of the company, which mainly includes the plants and machinery.

Do you still reply?

Yes, I do 🙂

Hii Karthik

in EBITDA Margin, when calculating Operating Expenses why ”Finance Cost, Depreciation and Amortization” is subtracted from total expense.

EBITDA means it includes both depreciation and amortization and also interest right?

deducting Depreciation and Amortization would actually give the value of EBIT

Can you please explain the reason behind this

Thank You

Have discussed this, Dinesh, guess it’s in the queries of either this or the previous/next chapter. Also, please do keep a tab on this module – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/financial-modelling/ will be discussing this and more. Thanks.

Hello sir,

1. PAT Margin / Net profit Margin / After tax profit margin are all three are same?

2. What is the denominator for this?

3. What is formula for net sales?

Thanks and regards.

1) Yes

2) Gross sales

3) Gross sales – duties

Hello sir,

While going through past comments, I have got below comment regarding bank sector

February 1, 2018 at 12:47 pm

Total Expense – Total Revenue = EBITDA

Total Expense / Total Revenue = EBITDA Margin

But in varsity following is mentioned

Operating revenue – operating expenses = EBITDA

EBITDA / Total revenue – other income = EBITDA Margin

Thanks

Hey Roshan, I’ll be discussing this in more detail in the current ongoing module – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/financial-modelling/

I prefer to take operating rev – operating expense to give a sense of profitability at an operating level. But yes, Total Expense – Total Revenue = EBITDA is generally whats used.

Hello Sir,

How do you have 2 different values of ROE from the Dupoint and normal method. If you cool at the dupoint formula the result is the same as the normal method. How did you end up with two different values?

Ideally both should result the same Chetan, if its not, then I must have missed a small variable somewhere. Btw, in the new module on financial modelling, I’ll try and address this agin.

Hello,

Why did ROCE have Profit before interest + taxes instead of PAT?

To find efficiency at the operating level. Will be discussing more on this in the financial modelling module.

How is net sales calculated?

Gross sales – duties if any = Net sales.

Hello Sir,

How does one understand financial leverage. What is a reference point to understand it.

For example is a financial leverage of under 1 poor? What about 1.5 what about 2??

How much debt is required to show if a company is under leveraged or over leveraged?

Leverage in simple sense is taking loans, beyond what your net worth permits. Higher the leverage, the risker it is because you maybe in a situation where repayment can be an issue.

Which should we consider?

Standalone financial ratios or consolidated??

Consolidated Financial statements.

Karthick,….If we analysing ROE in any website what method they will using it there

Do check the screener site, they may have this info. Both the value and the methodology.

Hello Sir,

I hope you are doing well.

I am confused about financial leverage.

How does one interpret it?

If a company has 0 borrowings, and has a financial leverage of 10. It would mean for every Rs.1 of shareholder equity, the company has 10 assets.

Is this a good thing or bad thing?

Hmm, if there is no borrowing, then the leverage should be 0. Not sure how you got 10.

Hello Sir,

What are ideal financial leverage amounts?

How does one interpret it and what are some causes of concern?

While there is no standard answer to it, the lower the leverage, the better it is.

Hello Sir,

Assuming a company is debt free.

It’s ROCE would be EBIT/shareholder equity.

And ROE would be Net PAT/shareholder equity.

This is an easier evaluation if the company has no debt.

What if a company has some debt.

How does one interpret ROCE and compare it to ROE?

ROCE would reduce, right?

For capital employed, short term debt should not be considered , right?

Capital employed =asset – current liabilities

Short term debt will come under current liabilities right?

YOu should, Vijay.

Hi Karthik,

I wanted to understand why while calculating ROCE we take operating profit and not PAT and why while calculating ROE we take PAT and not operating profit

In both cases, you can take PAT Suchi.

Sir, you have used 7 crores as Finance costs, but the annual report is showing 7 million rupees or 0.7 crores as the cost. Am I missing out on something here?

I must have done a typo here, Anoop.

Hi, the PAT Margin calculated under the PAT Margin section was 10.5%. However, while in the DuPont Model, you said Net Profit margin and PAT margin are same, but you took Net Profit Margin as 9.2% (while calculating DuPont model). Why the difference? Is that typing error or I am missing something?

I guess I excluded other income, Attraya. Please do check if thats the case.

Also, why did you took the average tax rate as 32%. Is that written in the Annual report too? If not where did you get the tax rate?

YOu can calculate the effective tax rate.

Effective tax rate = Tax paid/PBT

Thanks for replying Karthik. I calculated PAT Margin both including and excluding Other Income. It seems like it contradicts your statement. PAT(including other income)= 10.5%, PAT(excluding other income)=10.7%. And PAT Margin that you took in the Dupont Model is 9.2%. Could you please look into this?

Sure, will do.

Also, I was calculating some profitability ratios of other companies (TCS, INFY) looking at their Annual reports.

1. When I am comparing some ratios that I have calculated with my own with those in the moneycontrol or screener websites, I can find difference of 2-3%. Can those differences be neglected?

2. Are lease liabilities and short/long term borrowings are same thing in the Balance sheet?

1) Yes, you can.

2) No, lease liabilities are usually associated with rentals and long term property occupation. There is a specific purpose for this, whereas short/long term borrowings can be related to the capital needs of a company.

Okay. Thank you so much for clarifying my doubt. Also, a Happy Teachers Day, words will fall short to express all the efforts you are putting behind to teach us!

Thanks, Attraya! I hope you continue to enjoy reading on Varsity!

EBIDTA shown in Annual Report (2013-14) is 575.8 Cr while your calculation is 560 Cr, is it possible something is missing?

Possible, Imran. Can you please double check?

Hi Karthik, what great work I must say. I am probably reading through this almost exhaustive material for the third time now.

Not sure how it skipped every time until now, that the CAGR for EBITDA from 2011 to 2014 should come about 30% as it is 3 years.

This was just an observation. Please feel free to correct me if I stand wrong. I have dodged all the comments so pardon me if I am being repetitive with my comment.

Simran, thanks for the kind words. I’m glad you liked the content 🙂

About the CAGR, I need to check again. I wont be surprised if I’ve made a silly mistake 🙂

Why did we take profit before interest & taxes and not PAT for working of return on capital employed?

Because the operating margins include interest payments which go to all the lenders.

Mostly i see ROCE is greater than ROA.

ROCE IS RETURN ON TOTAL CAPITAL VS ROA IS RETURN ON ASSET ONLY

ALL KNOW THAT TOTAL CAPITAL ALSO INCLUDE ASSET PURCHASED BY COMPANY.

SO AS THIS THEORY TOTAL CAPITAL SHOULD ALWAYS GREATER THAN ASSET VALUE.

BY STUDY THIS THEORY ROA IS ALWAYS GREATER THAN ROCE

Key takeaways from this chapter

Point no 8. “High ROE is not great sign” What does it mean? We all know high ROE is good for stock.

Ah, I mean to say, high ROE backed by debt.

Respected Sir, ROA as calculated by you is approx 19.03%, BUT as per AR2013-2014 ROA is 64.56% (Note: Page 9/116 and Page 46/116 of pdf file, Table titled 10 – Years Financials).

Surprised there is so much divergence in the estimation. Checking this.

Sir, any updates?

Sorry, update on?

on the wide variation of ROA

In the RoE Section, The Net Profit Margin of ARBL FY-14 is 10.6%. Not 9.2%. Kindly correct. If I am mistake, kindly suggest me the procedure to get the correct answer

Thank You

Sure, I need to check this again.

The Interest (Finance Cost) is 7 Million = 0.7 Cr.

But in RoA, it is showing Interest is 7 Cr. which is wrong

Take Interest (Finance Cost) = 0.7 Cr.

Noted.

Dear Kartik,

In ROCE, you have taken 537.7 crores as profit before Interest and taxes. while, this figure includes interest too. can you please elaborate?

Hey Jaydeep, request you to keep track of this module – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/financial-modelling/ will be discussing this is greater detail.

I am confused with (net sales term), while calculating net profit margin ratio you said its same as PAT margin ratio, but in PAT margin the denominator is Total revenue(operations+other income) but in net profit margin its net sales(only operations)

2)also in these 2 ratios does net profit equals PAT ?

3) also are profit, income and earnings same things?

Kindly clarify?

Mayank, I’d suggest you please have a look at the new module – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/financial-modelling/

You can choose to calculate PAT, both are correct. Usually, people take total revenue. Net profit is PAT and yes, profit, earnings are the same. Income is revenue.

Sir, in formula of ROE, PAT is in numerator while for ROCE, PBIT is in numerator. Why is this difference? or why is not PAT considered while calculating ROCE?

Because the objective is different, with ROCE we intend to find out the operating profits.

ROE is profitability on an overall basis, ROCE is profitability on the operating level.

Hey Karthik

I believe Operating profit is EBIT, not EBITDA (from what I have studied in class 12 and my degree). So if we want to analyse the operating profit margin, shouldn’t we take EBIT margin?

And I am pretty confused why didn’t we take EBIT margin, why EBITDA? Could you please clarify??

Depending on how you consider D&A, many treat it just the way it is i.e accounting expense, hence take EBITDA. But you are right, EBIT has a wider acceptance.

BEFORE DUO PONT MODEL YOU GAVE A SITUATION WHERE DEBT WAS INCREASING AND THUS ROE WAS INCREASING NOW MY DOUBT IS IN ALL 3 SITUATION YOU KEPT PAT SAME I.E 2500 BUT IF DEBT IS INCREASING THEN PAT WILL REDUCE AS PAT IS AFTER INTEREST DEDUCTION BUT DEBT IS INCREASING PAT IS SAME IN THE EXAMPLE I.E 2500

That’s right Mayur, maybe I should recheck this again.

Hi sir

I have doubt as per formula stated for EBITDA it states =Total revenue-Other income-(Total Expense-Depreciation-Amortization)

I used this formula for Exide Industries Ltd for the Annual Report 2020-21 but when applied answer is coming wrong

All Amount in Cr

Income

Revenue from Operations-10,040.84

Other income -65.44

EXPENSES

Cost of materials consumed – 6,527.61

Purchase of stock-in-trade -7.46

Changes in inventories of finished goods, work-in-progress and stock-in-trade- 44.44

Employee benefit expenses -721.52

Other expenses -1,384.23

Total Expenses -8,685.26

They have given D and A under different heading altogether and D and A wasn’t included in total expense

Finance costs -23.77

Depreciation and amortization expenses -379.35

So Operating income =10040.84, Operating expense-8685.26

EBITDA=1355.58Cr

But they have shown EBITDA after adding Other Income to operating income

Please help in solving my doubt

Sarvesh, guess you need to include the D&A as well.

Hi kartik

Why in overall capital employed, only short term and long term debt has been taken, why other line items like deferred tax liabilities, long term provision,

short term borrowing, trade payables, and others are not taken into account

Another doubt From where did you get Profit before interest and taxes because in the annual report there is line item which states Profit before exceptional items and tax which is 540.5 Cr

Hey Sarvesh, someone had the same query and we discussed this in the comments section. Can you please check?

hii…i like your contents.

i have a query.

(1).out of ROE and ROCE, which one should we consider while doing fundamental analysis of the company.

(2) Which type of the company is best used for ROE and ROCE.

(3) How much % of ROE and ROCE is considered the best?

(4) What is difference between ROE and ROIC?

1) Both, but I’d suggest you start with ROE 🙂

2) All

3) There is no specific answer to this, generally speaking, higher the better

4) Have explained in the chapter itself.

Hi Karthik,

In video series, module 3 video 8 you have taught EBITDA = Total income – Total expense, but on varsity it is mentioned EBITDA = [Operating Revenues – Operating Expense].

Can you please clearly state the exact formula to calculate EBITDA and EBITDA margin?

I’d suggest you take the one from video series 🙂

karthik sir can u plz explain this?

e \valuation ratio compares the cost of a security with the perks of

owning the stock

what is cost of security and perks includes ??(dividends……)

It just means that the valuation ratios help you understand if the stock is trading cheap or expensive compared to its intrinsic value.

I have a doubt, may be it is already asked. Is it not the case that to calculate ROCE we don’t use short term debt as part Capital Employed. For reference:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/roce.asp

ROCE= EBIT/Capital Employed

where:

EBIT=Earnings before interest and tax

Capital Employed=Total assets − Current liabilities

Capital employed is the debt + equity, and we consider short term debt as well, Abhinav since that too contributes in generating the PAT.

Thanks a lot Karthik Rangappa sir for your beautiful insights.

Tonnes of Love from my side 😀

Thanks & Regards

CA Anurag Pareek

Happy learning, Anurag 🙂

I couldn’t encourage Financial Leverage

if the financial leverage is 4, for every Rs.1 of equity, the company supports Rs.4 worth of assets. Higher the financial leverage, along with increased amounts of debt, will indicate the company is highly leveraged, and hence the investor should exercise caution.

For every Rs.1 of shareholders money, company has Rs.4 worth of assets. then how come it is negative ?

The question is how did the company finance 3 Rupee worth more of assets? It must be via leverage, right? Leverage is fine as long as the company is in a position to repay back the borrowed funds.

** I Couldn’t Understand Financial Leverage

While calculating ROE through dupont model the result was 25% and through the simplified method it was 30 %.There was 5% difference. Can you please explain ?

Will be explaining that in the ongoing module – https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/financial-modelling/ request you to please keep track.

Karthik it would be great if you could clarify the difference between (Return on Asset) vs (Asset turnover)

Return on asset = The formula uses PAT

Asset turnover = The formula uses Revenue

Hi,

= 7* (1 – 32%)

= 4.76 Cr. Please note, 32% is the average tax rate.

Kindly explain me how did to get 32% and how to average tax rate??

Thank you

Vignesh, I’d suggest you check the Financial modelling module, I have discussed this there.

Hi this is vignesharasu

Please explain me that how did you get this 32% and 4.76 cr ( = 7* (1 – 32%)= 4.76 Cr. Please note, 32% is the average tax rate) and how to calculate the average tax rate too Waiting for your reply

Thank you & regards

Vignesharasu

Hi Vignesh…if you take the ratio of tax paid divided over PAT for last 5 years and then average it out, you will get the tax rate. Of course, this is an average and not accurate.

PAT

2009 – 2572

2010 – 3786

2011 – 1480

2012 – 2867

2013 – 2867

Total 12855

Tax paid is 4005

=3.20

Mr. Karthik I know that you will be busy on your work and too your are replying for your comments first thank you for that and I really don’t know how to calculate this thing and getting confused so kindly explain me the steps if possible thank you

Check this chapter – https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/projections/ in section 12.2, I have explained this.

Can anyone confirm the below statements

EBITDA = Revenue – Direct Expense – Indirect expense

EBIT= EBITDA – Depreciation & Amortisation (non cash)-Non-Operating Expenses (Interest)

In above post EBIT is given As EBITA

EBITA is basically Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization

Formula for Operating profit margin should be EBIT/Revenue

Greetings sir,

If, most of the financial ratios(over a 5yr period) are looking promising but just a single or maybe two of them are are slightly fluctuating or growing negatively (not rapidly) in that case what should be the conclusion about a stock, whether it is worth digging more or not.

For ex Alkyl Amines chemicals ltd . All the investable grade attributes are promising ✅ but the price to book value is 13.6x

And the relatively P.E stock PE is 59.9 whereas industry PE is 24.1

This is one of the examples, there are many only the attributes chages .

One more question sir,

Is it okay to invest by seeing the future forecasts reports published on the websites like trendlyne. I’ve seen one for the HAL where it shows the targeted price which is impressive .

Thank you

Rajpal, it then depends on how important these ratios are for you. I know many investors who don’t mind investing even if the stock is a high PE/PB stock. So evaluate what’s important for you in your checklist and go with that thought process.

In ROA ,

Sir you took the interest amount ( finance cost ) as 7 crs.

I checked the ARBL statement but I did not understand how did you get 7 crs as the number.

Neev, check the finance charges in the AR.

Thank you sir, according to me each ratio is essential but I have major concern not getting stuck later on with overvalued stocks and I’m confused whether to select those companies. Although they’re showing good financial numbers and looking at the annual report they’ve shown good futures plannings.

I’m just stuck with the overvaluation thing

Hoping you’ll guide me 🙏🏻

Rajpal, its is just that the stock in in-demand and buyers are willing to pay any price for it. Yes, buying at high valuations is a problem, but you need to be in a position to figure if the current valuation wrt to future growth is high or not. If you think its high, then wait for a correction in stock.

Hello Sir ,

while calculating tax rate for ROA calculations and using the formula (current tax + deferred tax)/PBT. What if the deferred tax is in negative and making the whole (current tax + deferred tax) term negative . Then how to proceed further for tax rate calculation.

The deferred tax won’t be negative right? It is an allocation of tax that the company intents to pay later.

Sir , I am analysing financial statements of 20 microns for the fy20-21 , in that they have given deferred tax as negative for fy20-21

Then its a tax refund that they are expecting. On the balance sheet, check if they have deferred tax assets, on the asset side.

Karthik,

I am going to complete the course “Fundamental Analysis” in 2/3 days. I can not thank you more for the simplest yet effective way you have explained it. It is even better than face-to-face classes. Thank you a lot for your hard work. Now, can you please guide me on how can I take the certification exam immediately?

Sanjay, thanks for the kind words. For certification, I’d suggest you download the app and run through the FA module.

i have a query, i went to varsity App to see whether the content is same as the website. Though the headings , sub-headings are almost same but In App, there is no module in video form. So is content the same ?

We are updating the app this weekend, you will have the videos soon.

Sir the deferred tax shown in the P&L statement is -748.66 and the deferred tax asset in the balance sheet is 70.51.

I have read the note of deferred tax in that they have mentioned that they will pay income tax according to section 115BAA. Then my question is how to calculate tax rate .Since deferred tax is negative and for calculation of tax rate for ROA the formula I am using ((current tax + deferred tax)/PBT.

https://cleartax.in/s/section-115-baa-tax-rate-domestic-companies. Sir in this link they have mentioned the tax rate for deferred tax under the said section. But if I use this then will the tax rate be same for current tax as well.

Umang, here is one way in which you can approximate the taxes – https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/projections/. Please see section 12.2.

Thank you, Karthik for the reply. I’ll do as suggested.

Sir

Why ?

A high Roe and a high debt is not a great sign

The return should be generated by equity, but if the company is using debt to finance, then its not a great sign.

Thank you sir will do that once I reach on that module.

Sure! Happy learning 🙂

Can I calculate ROA as (PBIT + Finance Costs)/ Total Average assets ?

But what is the logic of including finance costs?

when I calculated the EBITDA margin of bajaj auto it was 15% 5258 but when I see the EBITDA margin from the third-party website it showed a vastly different value from calculation

As long as you’ve calculated it based on numbers from the Annual report it’s fine. Dont worry about 3rd party sites.

why there is so much difference

Hello Karthik while calculating ROCE PBIT is 537 not considering interest payment

Sure, but why?

537 is Pbt right ?Finance cost already deducted why is that? i don’t have any financial background plz expain?

Nazr, I have explained this in the comments and chapter itself. Do check that once.

In ROA.. Why are we deducting tax rate ??because the returns on asset is needed to be found out and not the taxable returns to deduct the tax rate on interest .. The tax is paid to the IT department and thus it may reduce the tax liability but not the interest rate that we are liable to pay to the debtors!! And in such case the returns earned will be as same as the net income from assets with or without deducting tax rate

Ananth, this is because of the tax shield effect. I’ve explained that here – https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/valuation-part-3-risk-premium-tax-shield/

In ROA, finance cost would be 70 lakhs instead of 7 cr ?

Operating Expense = [Total Expense – Finance Cost – Depreciation & Amortization]

Hello sir,

i want to know since we are calculating operating expenses why we are not subtracting the (other expenses) from the above formula

as fas as i know other expenses is not related to operating expenses!

We are subtracting it, right? Also, why do you think other expenses are not related to operational expenses?

hello sir

Without dupont model Shall we deduct finance cost ,depriciation and amortisation from PAT sir to find ROE ,as earlier we’ve done for find EBITDA on total revnue?

1) RoE=net profit/shareholders equity-debt , which was mentioned in as an pizza eg

2) Alternativly shall we do this sir?

ROE=net profit-debt- DEP AND AMORT/Share holders equity

Yes, but why do you want to manipulate it?

can you please explain me on return on equity , how net profit margin is 9.2% ?

As you have mentioned, it is same as PAT margin but PAT margin value is 10.5% and If you exclude other income it comes 10.69%

Ah, I guess we have discussed this in the comments above. Can you please check once?

In ROA, you have taken finance costs as Rs 7 Crores whereas it is Rs 7 Million (~0.7 Crores) in the Statement of Profit and Loss.

After taking Finance costs as 0.7 crores, the ROA is 18.8%.

Need to double check this, Deepesh.

PAT Margin in ROE calculation still shows as 9.2%. Please correct it.

Will look into this.

Hi,

In ROE – I couldn’t understand why the PAT margin is 9.2%. It should be 10.5% (per PAT margin calculation, considering Total Revenue) or if we take Operating Revenue instead of Total Revenue – it should be 10.68%. Based on these two percentages, the ROE is 29.58% and 30.09% respectively. Can you explain how it is 9.2%? or am I right with my numbers above? Secondly, the ROE percentage by applying Direct formula and Three section formula is 30.31% and 30.09% (I took 10.68% for PAT margin – 10.68%*1.61*1.75) respectively so the difference seems negligible. In the same manner, I used another company financial statement and computed ROE in both methods. To my surprise each method of computing ROE arrives with same number, does this happen? Thanks

Ideally, whichever method you apply, the end result should be the same. In my opinion, using the direct method is better. About the numbers, I’ll check this again. We have just started to update the content on Varsity, will relook at these numbers as well. Thanks.

Hi Karthik,

For Financial Leverage, is it not = debt / Shareholders Equity?

Thanks

We are using assets here to determine what portion of assets is financed by debt. Hence assets is used in the numerator. Btw, there are many ways to discuss leverage ratio, which we have discussed in this chapter.