11.1 – Context
In the previous chapter we understood that for the long straddle to be profitable, we need a set of things to work in our favor, reposting the same for your quick reference –
- The volatility should be relatively low at the time of strategy execution
- The volatility should increase during the holding period of the strategy
- The market should make a large move – the direction of the move does not matter
- The expected large move is time bound, should happen quickly – well within the expiry
- Long straddles are to be setup around major events, and the outcome of these events to be drastically different from the general market expectation.
Agreed that the directional movement of the market does not matter in the long straddle, but the bargain here is quite hard. Considering the 5 points list, getting the long straddle to work in you favor is quite a challenge. Do recall, in the previous chapter the breakdown was at 2%, add to this another 1% as desired profits and we are essentially looking for, at least a 3% move on the index. From my experience expecting the market to make such moves regularly is quite a challenge. In fact for this reason alone, I think twice each and every time I need to initiate a long straddle.
I have witnessed many traders recklessly set up long straddles thinking they are insulated to the market’s directional movement. But in reality they end up losing money in a long straddle – time delay and the general movement in the market (or the lack of it) works against them. Please note, I’m not trying to discourage you from employing the long straddle, no one denies the simplicity and elegance of a long straddle. It works extremely well when all the 5 points above are aligned. My only issue with long straddle is the probability of these 5 points aligning with each other.
Now think about this – there are quite a few factors which prevents the long straddle to be profitable. So as an extension of this – the same set of factors ‘should’ favor the opposite of a long straddle, i.e the ‘Short Straddle’.
11.2 – The Short Straddle
Although many traders fear the short straddle (as losses are uncapped), I personally prefer trading the short straddle on certain occasions over its peer strategies. Anyway let us quickly understand the set up of a short straddle, and how its P&L behaves across various scenarios.
Setting up a short straddle is quite straight forward – as opposed to buying the ATM Call and Put options (like in long straddle) you just have to sell the ATM Call and Put option. Obviously the short strategy is set up for a net credit, as when you sell the ATM options, you receive the premium in your account.
Here is an example, consider Nifty is at 7589, so this would make the 7600 strike ATM. The option premiums are as follows –
- 7600 CE is trading at 77
- 7600 PE is trading at 88
So the short straddle will require us to sell both these options and collect the net premium of 77 + 88 = 165.
Please do note – the options should belong to the same underlying, same expiry, and of course same strike. So assuming you have executed this short straddle, let’s figure out the P&L at various market expiry scenarios.
Scenario 1 – Market expires at 7200 (we lose money on put option)
This is a scenario where the loss in the put option is so large that it eats away the premium collected by both the CE and PE, resulting in an overall loss. At 7200 –
- 7600 CE will expire worthless, hence we get the retain the premium received i.e 77
- 7600 PE will have an intrinsic value of 400. After adjusting for the premium received i.e Rs.88, we lose 400 – 88 = – 312
- The net loss would be 312 – 77 = – 235
As you can see, the gain in call option is offset by the loss in the put option.
Scenario 2 – Market expires at 7435 (lower breakdown)
This is a situation where the strategy neither makes money nor loses any money.
- 7600 CE would expire worthless; hence the premium received is retained. Profit here is Rs.77
- 7600 PE would have an intrinsic value of 165, out of which we have received Rs.88 as premium, hence our loss would be 165 – 88 = -77
- The gain in the call option is completely offset by the loss in the put option. Hence we neither make money nor lose money at 7435.
Scenario 3 – Market expires at 7600 (at the ATM strike, maximum profit)
This is the most favorable outcome for a short straddle. At 7600, the situation is quite straight forward as both the call and put option would expire worthless and hence the premium received from both the call and put option will be retained. The gain here would be equivalent to the net premium received i.e Rs.165.
So this means, in a short straddle you make maximum money when the markets don’t move!
Scenario 4 – Market expires at 7765 (upper breakdown)
This is similar to the 2nd scenario we discussed. This is a point at which the strategy breaks even at a point higher than the ATM strike.
- 7600 CE would have an intrinsic value of 165, hence after adjusting for the premium received of Rs. 77, we stand to lose Rs.88 (165 – 77)
- 7600 PE would expire worthless, hence the premium received i.e Rs.88 is retained
- The gain made in the 7600 PE is offset against the loss on the 7600 CE, hence we neither make money nor lose money.
Clearly this is the upper breakdown point.
Scenario 5 – Market expires at 8000 (we lose money on call option)
Clearly the market in this scenario is way above the 7600 ATM mark. The call option premium would swell, so would the loss –
- 7600 PE will expire worthless, hence the premium received i.e Rs.88 is retained
- At 8000, the 7600 CE will have an intrinsic value of 400, hence after adjusting for the premium received of Rs. 77, we stand to lose Rs. 323( 400 -77)
- We have received Rs.88 as premium for the Put option, therefore the loss would be 88- 323 = -235
So as you can see, the loss in the call option is significant enough to offset the combined premiums received.
Here is the payoff table at different market expiry levels.
As you can observe –
- The maximum profit 165 occurs at 7600, which is the ATM strike
- The strategy remains profitable only between the lower and higher breakdown numbers
- The losses are unlimited in either direction of the market
We can visualize these points in the payoff structure here –
From the inverted V shaped payoff graph, the following things are quite clear –
- The point at which you can experience maximum profits is at ATM, the profits shrink as you move away from the ATM mark
- The strategy is profitable as long as the market stays within the breakdown points
- Maximum loss is experienced when markets move further away from the breakdown point. The further away the market moves from the breakdown point, higher the loss
- Max loss = Unlimited
- There are two breakdown points – on either side, equidistant from ATM
- Upper Breakdown = ATM + Net premium
- Lower Breakdown = ATM – Net premium
As you may have realized by now, the short straddle works exactly opposite to the long straddle. Short straddle works best when markets are expected to be in a range and not really expected to make a large move.
Many traders fear short straddle considering the fact that short straddles have unlimited losses on either side. However from my experience, short straddles work really well if you know how exactly to deploy this. In fact in the last chapter of the previous module, I had posted a case study involving short straddle. Probably that was one of the best examples of when to implement the short straddle.
I will repost the same again here and I hope you will be able to appreciate the case study better.
11.3 – Case Study (repost from previous module)
The following case study was a part of Module 5, Chapter 23. I’m reposting the same here as I assume you would appreciate the example better at this stage. To get the complete context, I’d request you to read the chapter.
Infosys was expected to announce their Q2 results on 12th October. The idea was simple – news drives volatility up, so short options with an expectation that you can buy it back when the volatility cools off. The trade was well planned and the position was initiated on 8th Oct – 4 days prior to the event.
Infosys was trading close to Rs.1142/- per share, so he decided to go ahead with the 1140 strike (ATM).
Here is the snapshot at the time of initiating the trade –
On 8th October around 10:35 AM the 1140 CE was trading at 48/- and the implied volatility was at 40.26%. The 1140 PE was trading at 47/- and the implied volatility was at 48%. The combined premium received was 95 per lot.
Market’s expectation was that Infosys would announce fairly decent set of numbers. In fact the numbers were better than expected, here are the details –
“For the July-September quarter, Infosys posted a net profit of $519 million, compared with $511 million in the year-ago period. Revenue jumped 8.7 % to $2.39 billion. On a sequential basis, revenue grew 6%, comfortably eclipsing market expectations of 4- 4.5% growth.
In rupee terms, net profit rose 9.8% to Rs.3398 crore on revenue of Rs. 15,635 crore, which was up 17.2% from last year”. Source: Economic Times.
The announcement came in around 9:18 AM, 3 minutes after the market opened, and this trader did manage to close the trade around the same time.
Here is the snapshot –
The 1140 CE was trading at 55/- and the implied volatility had dropped to 28%. The 1140 PE was trading at 20/- and the implied volatility had dropped to 40%.
Do pay attention to this – the speed at which the call option shot up was lesser than the speed at which the Put option dropped its value. The combined premium was 75 per lot, and he made a 20 point profit per lot.
11.4 – The Greeks
Since we are dealing with ATM options, the delta of both CE and PE would be around 0.5. We could add the deltas of each option and get a sense of how the overall position deltas behave.
- 7600 CE Delta @ 0.5, since we are short, the delta would be -0.5
- 7600 PE Delta @ – 0.5, since we are short, the delta would be + 0.5
- Combined delta would be -0.5 + 0.5 = 0
The combined delta indicates that the strategy is directional neutral. Remember both long and short straddle is delta neutral. In case of long straddle, delta neutral suggests that the profits are uncapped and in case of short straddle, the losses are uncapped.
Now here is something for you to think about – When you initiate a straddle you are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will your position still remain delta neutral? If yes, why do you think so? If no, then is there a way to keep the position delta neutral?
If you can build your thoughts around these points, then I can guarantee you that your options knowledge is far greater than 90% of the market participants. To answer these simple questions, you will need to step a little deeper and get into 2nd level of thinking.
Do post your comments below.
Key takeaways from this chapter
- Short straddle requires you to simultaneously Sell the ATM Call and Put option. The options should belong to the same underlying, same strike, and same expiry
- By selling the CE and PE – the trader is placing the bet that the market wont move and would essentially stay in a range
- The maximum profit is equal to the net premium paid, and it occurs at the strike at which the long straddle has been initiated
- The upper breakdown is ‘strike + net premium’. The lower breakdown is ‘strike – net premium’
- The deltas in a short straddle adds up to zero
- The volatility should be relatively high at the time of strategy execution
- The volatility should decrease during the holding period of the strategy
- Short straddles can be set around major events, wherein before the event, the volatility would drive the premiums up and just after the announcement, the volatility would cool off, and so would the premiums.
Download Short Straddle Excel Sheet
As the market moves, position won’t be delta neutral any longer. In order to bring the position back to delta neutral one can make use FUTURE as it carries delta of 1. Options can also be used for the same. This strategy is a very good strategy for traders who just want to earn the TIME VALUE OF MONEY. The only catch is it is a very HIGH RISK – HIGH REWARD strategy.
True! You got to use future 🙂
Hey Karthik,
Thanks for publishing this, can you help me understand with an example how using Futures will help us achieve Delta neutral?
Thank you!
Futures has a delta of 1 and the delta of an option varies between 0 and 1 (+ve for long options and -ve for short options). So for example, if I have shorted 2 options with Delta of – 0.5, then the overall delta would be –
-0.5 + (-0.5)
-1.0
Now along with this if you buy a futures, then the overall delta will be 1 – 1 = 0. Hence delta neutral.
Let say for the infy example,as the market moved the CE becomes ITM and delta goes to 0.8 and the PE the delta goes to -0.3, the net delta is 0.5…how would buying a future option help in this case?
The delta of Futures is 1. To have a Delta Neutral position, you need to offset the options delta of 0.5 with Futures delta of 1, which means to say you need to add more options position to boost the overall position delta to 1.
Can’t you just take the appropriate ratio of futures, let’s say delta became -0.2, then long futures with 0.2 size of the option positions
Delta of futures is fixed to 1.
Sir,
(1)When the trend moves in UP direction, we can observe the following:
the ATM strike price premium at which the CALL option purchased, will become costlier due to increase of DELTA from 0.5 to 1.0 by moving the strike into ITM strike depending upon the increment and vice versa of the opposite direction ie PUT option by decreasing the DELTA than(-) 0.5 to 0 becoming the premium cheaper.
(2) To equalise the strategy we adjust the straddle by adding more DELTAS ie by selling put strikes.
Please correct me if wrong. Regards, Sastry
Part 1 is right. But to ensure you are delta neutral, you adjust it with Futures.
Sir,
Part 2 of my question ie will you please how to adjust with Futures (Nifty index) to DElta Neutral. I will be highly grateful if you can let me have your reply. Regards, Sastry
Adjusting Futures in order to retain the straddle delta neutral is called ‘Delta Hedging’. I will need a separate chapter to explain this in detail 🙂
Nice article on the related chapter…. very well explained.
Cheers!
Hi Karthik,
In my understanding of the things, answer to your question “When you initiate a straddle you are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will your position still remain delta neutral?” is NO. The delta doesn’t remain neutral as markets move away making the contracts ITM & OTM.
Is it therefore worth considering that on a daily basis, one keeps tracking the change in the underlying (Nifty in this case) and re-position the Stradle by EOD.
Shall appreciate any other strategy that is more efficient.
Yes, you will have to re position but not the entire straddle, but an additional Futures position. Re-positioning futures with an aim to keep the original straddle delta neutral is called ‘Delta Hedging’. More on this at a later stage.
Thanks Karthik for your quick reply. Will eagerly wait to get the details of Delta hedging using Future.
Sure, I hope to put up a chapter on this sometime soon.
where we can see the delta/gama value of option in zerodha ?
Here you go – https://zerodha.com/tools/black-scholes/
Hii Karthik,
I have a different query not related to this perticular topic. Is it worth buying ITM or ATM put options in same qty as of the future long qty in order to hedge the down side risk? Is this called as the’ protective put’ strategy? Can we use this strategy in Nifty future break out trades, intraday or positional? Appreciate your kind advice. …
Firstly the quantity will be the same as all derivatives contracts (both Future and options) are standardized.
Yes, this is a protective put. You can use this in anticipation of a breakout. It the breakout happens and Nifty starts moving in your anticipated direction, then close the put and hold the futures.
This regarding short straddle adjustment. Suppose I create a short straddle targeting 2 days after initiation of straddle ( not for expiry day). So I want the market to be within a certain range after considering all the greeks in those 2 days. Suppose the srock price reaches to my upper break even. Then I buy equity stocks and make it delta neutral. That means I can never loose money in this? That can not happen. So what is the catch. How would I loose money even after adjusting delta?
Well, after you buy the stock, the market can reverse directions and start hurting both long stock and short put.
Thanks for the reply. Hope this is a limited loss and unlimited profit strategy. I think th max loss occurs when the market trades flat. Max loss will b equal to th premium paid for th put option. Kindly correct If I am wrong. Also plz tell me what will be the approximate delta value for a protective put while initiation. Thanks. .
I’d suggest you put these numbers on excel and check how the payoff works out. From the payoff you can visualize all the critical points – breakeven, max profit, max loss etc. I can assure you this will be a great learning experience for you!
Thank you Karthik. Can you plz tell me where I find pay off shet of covered call and protective put strategis. Or else , if possible, would you plz send it to my mail Id, if you have th same. Thanks..
Will probably put up a chapter on this sometime soon.
hi kartik,
how many chapters are left on this module??? when will you start commodity module???
2 more chapters left I think.
Arranging of live options trading course will be possible????
Not for now Dilip. Thanks.
Hi Karthik,
Does it make sense to use long/short saddles for interday? are these strategies only useful for swing/hold until expiry?
thanks!
Not really, I’ve used these intraday especially when I get a sense that the volatility is likely to drop.
Hi Karthik,
Everday inbetween 10 to 1:30PM volatility will be low, can we use this short straddle during this time ?
Thanks.
Shorting options requires higher volatility, not low volatility.
I was just wondering that would it be wise to execute a short-straddle on last day of expiry; considering that the index is not likely to change too much in just one day.
Sure, but you would be receiving very little premium. Question is – is the risk really worth it ?
Since selling a strike price involves more money than buying the call or put and also the reward is less and loss is uncapped, doesn’t it make the short Straddle dangerous to execute ? We would need to keep a close eye on the levels or else the loss will take over.
Also among the Long & the Short Straddle which one is better to execute at the start and end of the series ?
This really depends on how you look at it. Yes, when you sell options risk is higher, tends to give you sleepless nights, but the chances of retaining the premiums (if done right) is higher.
You cannot differentiate the straddles, both these are great strategies, but they work well under different circumstances.
What is role of implied volatile in sort straddle can u explain me ?
When you short an option or an option strategy as such, knowingly or unknowingly you are taking a view on the volatility. If you feel the IV is high, shorting makes sense…otherwise it does now. Suggest you read the chapter on Volatility in the previous module.
sir in my short straddle pos. my call is deep itm. My debit amt is grater than credit amt then hw can i manage this loss?
Why did you choose to write a ‘Deep ITM’ option? You are not supposed to be writing a deep ITM option.
Hi Respected Team,
I am already a fan of Zerodha Varsity. Regarding the Short Straddle Strategy,
Suppose,
Short 7600 CE @ 77 (NIFTY)
Short 7600 PE @ 88 (NIFTY)
Now, Current Spot Price = 7800.
Hence, P/L on the CE,
We make a Loss of 7800-7600=200
200-Premium Received= 200-78=122
LOSS = 122
P/L on the PE,
We retain the Premium Receiced = 88
Total Loss on the trade= 122-88=(34)
Now when Spot is 7800,
7600 CE is slightly ITM, hence Delta will be around +.7
As we are short then Delta is (-.7)
7600 PE is slightly OTM when Spot is 7800.
Hence, Delta may be around -.4
As we short, Delta is = +.4
Total Delta of the the strategy = -.7+.4=.3
Now as is has been stated earlier that we need Futures to hedge the Delta,
So we know Delta of Futures is always 1.
So how we hedge the (0.3) Delta.?
Plzz Reply.
You can hedge this buy adding another lot of PEs. By the way, in this situation, the CE delta will be higher than -0.7 and the PE delta will be lesser than +0.4.
Hello Karthik,
Once again a ‘never disappointing, flawless and interesting’ article and explanation. Sincere thanks for this.
I have one doubt though. Is hedging through futures or underlying stock itself somehow more effective than delta hedging through options because in my understanding, in the above example selling an OTM put (as you also mentioned) or buying an OTM call should serve the purpose of making the whole set-up delta neutral and then there will be no need for futures?
Thanks, Kanika.
The problem with options is that once you initiate a delta neutral position, you will have to ensure that the position remains delta neutral. With the change in price, the neutrality also changes and this further adds to the trading expense.
Hello Sir
13 April is when the Infosys results are to be declared and I am thinking to execute the position on Monday. If the results are positive then the market is going to bounce 40-50 points according to my calculation but if it is not good it will drop further more. Also from the past results I analyzed that the market tend to sense the results positivity/negativity a day before therefore rise/drop according to that the day on which the results are declared. I confused which strategy shall I choose Bear Call Ladder or Straddle/Strangles as IV for a 980 CE is 31 and 980 PE is also around 30. How do I know whether 30 is low or high? I checked on NSE but I am not getting previous days’ option chain with implied volatility. Do you have any site or source from where I can check and verify the data that 30 is relatively low or high.
So query
1) Source/Site where I can check past option chain data so that I can back test
2) What would you have done I you were at my position. i.e. which strategy would you opt for?
Thank You
1) No, I’m not aware of any site which displays the IV info.
2) I would short a straddle/strangle and let the events unfold. Will also make sure the position is closed right after the event is announced.
sir, i just want a moderate return on my capital because of banks FD rates , So i started selling deep OTMs of call and put premium lets say 10 or 6 rupess , i am working on this from last three months is it good or not in long term , please enlighten me from your experience .
thanks
Yes, it does. But the problem here is that deep OTM can trigger some severe panic if prices starts to move. So be aware of that. Good luck.
I had executed short straddle option strategy yesterday.I sold nifty 9500 ce at ₹65 & 9500 pe at ₹49,so total premium recd was ₹114.So I should be profitable if market remains between 9386 & 9614.
Am I correct? But today the 9500 ce closed at 28.90 & 9500 pe closed at 92.20..so total premium is 121.10..so I would be making loss even though the nifty is between the upper the lower break even.
Why should it be so…pls explain?
Regards
pankit shah
Yes, you would be profitable if Nifty is between the lower and upper bound….on expiry day! During the expiry, remember there are many different factors that will influence the premiums. So your profitability can vary.
Hello
Firstly, great work on the Varsity. Just amazing, keep going.
Now, I was thinking about the reason why the Volatility drop on the Call Option of the INFY was more compared to the Put Option?
Is it because of the Impact Cost or Can I relate this to the Open Interest ?
Is there any way I can predict the magnitude of fall in the Volatility?
Thanks
Thanks for the kind words 🙂
This can be attributed to both Volatility + the delta effect. Yes, you can make a fair assessment on how much the volatility is likely to increase or decrease. Things like volatility cone helps here.
Is it possible to place both the call and put sell order of same strike price in one click on kite??
Yes, that would be considered two separate orders.
how to buy buy/sell a option strategy in single click and also exit in single click when MTM is in profit
Not possible as of now, but I’d suggest you wait for few announcements around this 🙂
Hi Karthik,
Thanks for sharing excellent knowledge about options but can you please suggest us any good book reading in order to understand option theory and its strategies more in-depth.?.
I think this book is really good – https://www.amazon.com/Option-Volatility-Pricing-Strategies-Techniques-ebook/dp/B007VLQQU4
Thanks.
Hi Sir,
I wanted to know that to be profitable by using delta neutral strategy the underlying asset should move by a large amount in any direction or just a slight movement in underlying is enough.
Large moves would make more sense for Delta neutral strategies.
What all factors to be kept in mind while implementing a Delta Neutral strategy. ?
I first came across this term “Delta Neutral strategy” in an interview of Nikhil Kamath which was interviewed by you. So I am more interested to know about it.
The only factor you need to keep in mind is to ensure that you are totally insulated from the directional movements in the market. The moment you expose yourself to market variations, you are not delta neutral. Another key thing is to make sure you continue to remain delta neutral after taking on the trade.
Hello Karthik,
Is there a way I can have charting for straddle/strangle premium on kite?
I am sure many option traders will love to have this.
I was wondering if I could plot a chart that is the sum of premiums of any two options, that way I could construct my own price chart.
Thanks
Ah, no Rohit. I know this is a very desirable feature, but unfortunately, it is not available!
Hi
Nifty spot at 10768
Nifty 10700 pe @ 98
Nifty 10700 ce @ 135
Nifty 10500 pe @45
Nifty 10850 ce@60
If I short 10700 straddle , buy 10500 pe and buy 10850 ce
Is it mean , 98+135-45-60=133 confirmed profit?
In you want a short straddle at 10700, you need to sell both CE & PE at 10700. So net debit of 233 i.e 98+135.
Hi Kartik,
Thanks for knowledge sharing.
I was trying to understand using futures for hedging against price movement in case of short straddle, keeping it Delta neutral. Future has fixed Delta & does not have any Theta hence no Theta decay gain. Does it mean purpose of buying/selling of Future is only to hedge the strategy against price movement?
Loss arising due to price movement of futures, is the price you pay for safeguarding your position. Your maximum profit received as total premium, will be lessened by the loss in future.
It does mean that you should come out of the strategy when the loss due to future hedging is becoming more than the premium received.
Is my above understanding correct?
Rgds
Sorry for typo in name – It should be Karthik.
Thats alright, Pradeep 🙂
Yes, futures have no theta and its delta is fixed at 1. In case of a short straddle, you are already delta neutral (of course the overall delta of the position should be 0). In case its not, then you can adjust the options position to ensure you are net 0 delta. Adding a long future will heavily skew the short straddle position. Its best you use options itself to maintain delta neutrality.
Sir I am very much interested in stock market. I don’t have much money to go and take classes so just wanted to confirm by going through with all your Modules will it help to know each details for trading
Yes, Sandeep. Go ahead and make complete use of the content available freely for you here. I’m quite sure you’d feel confident dealing with markets after reading through Varsity. Happy learning!
Hi Karthik,
Is there any way we can get historical IV data?
Regards,
Adarsh.
Not that I know off, but maybe you should check with – https://sensibull.com/
what does “10 percent interest rate is applied while computing implied volatility means.
Thanks
The input for the risk free rate is taken as 10%. Guess this is how NSE (used) to compute. Need to check if there is a change in this.
Everything is fine but the XL link provided above for download is representing Long Straddle, not Short Straddle.
Ah, let me check this. Thanks for pointing out.
I am trying to use short straddle targeting the days before expiry date. Since it is a short straddle, I wish the stock price remains within the range. However, if the market starts moving in one direction, suppose in upward direction. I buy equities in cash to make the trade delta neutral (not futures as they are to be traded in lots and I may not be able to adjust the delta to exact zero). So if the stock moves further up, I make profit in equities which will offset loss in option. But my profit is reserved. If it reverses, I make profit in options which offset the loss in equity. But I may have to loose my profit in this case. I can encash the theta decay. vega is not a problem as it tends to decrease as it approaches towards expiry. That means to say that there is no way I make loss. I can never loose money. But that is not possible. So what is the catch? what are the cons in this type of trade except that we need more capital keep the delta neutral?
Santhosh, with a short straddle, you have 2 legs – short PUt and short call. Your long equity offsets the short call, what about the short put position? That will remain unhedged.
Yes sir. I have taken only one example of price going up. If price goes down, then to hedge short put option, I may short equities on intraday basis as I can even have some leverage (or short future also if I can adjust delta). Leave the untouched short call to make profit. So, how do I loose money? Of course, I may loose some money to the extent of gamma (as the delta itself changes with the price. ) but I may keep on adjusting deltas by buying or selling the equities as the price moves to ensure my principle. I am a newbie in option trading, so I want to make sure of risk before I start putting the money. I am not sure about practical application of these type of adjustments. So how exactly do I loose money? Please let me know where can I go wrong…
Santhosh, the biggest gains/loss happens at the open, most number of days. So shorting spot for intraday may not work. You will have to short futures and carry forward the position. What you are suggesting is a form of delta hedging. The biggest problem with this is that you will lose money in terms of transactions. On paper, it looks good but you really need to execute this once to understand how it behaves.
Dear Karthik,
Lets say that I enter into Short Straddle or Short Strangle as delta neutral strategy. During the course of the day if price moves in any direction, my delta changes ..To hedge it I Short/LongFutures..Even after hedging it the price varies, I may have to again short more calls/puts or Futures. My question is till how long one should keep on adjusting the positions? Is it necessary that delta must be zero only or delta of 0.3 is acceptable? When one should call quits and exit from the strategy?
Regards
I understand your concern, Chander. I used to face the exact same problem back in the days. I then switched to adjusting the position at the open of the day (based on the previous day’s close) and this started giving me better results. Maybe you can check this.
Dear Karthik,
Many thanks for quick revert on my above query.
It is often said that one should Short Calls/Puts when the volatility is high and go long when Volatility is low..I assume it means Implied Volatility (IV). Now my question is how do we judge whether the volatility is really high or low? Against what should we compare the IV? I assume that IV to be considered should be of ATM strike..Pls confirm.
Regards,
Chander
You can compare the current IV with historical volatility to gauge where the volatility is. Of course, this is not a very clean technique to figure out where the current day’s volatility stands at, but this works.
Hi Karthik,
Can you please explain how volatility behaves in the series of events in timeline?
1) No news as of yet
2) News about results being declared (Let’s say 20 days from now)
3) Last few days leading upto the result
4) On the day of result
5) Immediately after result is announced
6) Days after result is announced
I will take a guess, please correct me if i am wrong
1) Lets say Volatility is some X & not worry about it as we just need to understand relatively
2) Increases
3) Decreases
4) Constant
5) Constant (If news is as expected as market has discounted the news) / Increases if not met expectation / Increases if exceeded expectation
6) Decreases if not constant in (5) else Constant
By “Constant” i mean “almost flat” everywhere. And also if you can possibly give such a timeline for elections too assuming D-Street expects BJP to win.
This is purely to understand the behaviour of IV
Made few changes –
1) Lets say Volatility is some X & not worry about it as we just need to understand relatively
2) Increases
3) Sharp increase
4) Constant
5) Cool off as the news and the outcome is known
6) Decreases if not constant in (5) else Constant
The excel sheet gives the P & L if the strategy is held till expiry.
I wish to know what tools are available which will track the position (P & L) of strategy at any given time after is executed so that we could decide that we should liquidate the position without waiting for expiry.
Have you checked out Sensibull, Shiv? Check this – https://sensibull.com/
Hi Karthik,
I have a doubt. If I initiate a short strangle position at the start of the day and if I exit the same at the end of day or any time on the same day, what will be my p&l. Will it be based on the underlying or based on the movement of the premiums I paid. Please help me.
The P&L is equal to the change in the premium.
Thanks Karthik for your prompt reply..so it means this kind of trade is not delta neutral and there is no guarantee that this will not give a loss right?
There are no guarantees in the market, Amlan 🙂
Suppose I am expecting for sure that SBI share to be within 270 to 300 by the end of this month expiry which is trading around 285. But, being conservative I create a short straddle of 260 PE and 320 CE.
However, if stock starts moving up and reaches 300. Then, I buy back 270 PE and using same amount, I buy 315 CE. The price of 315 CE will be higher but I am insulated against further rise and loss will be minimum. Also investment needed to buy option is lesser than it is for futures. What do you feel about this strategy?
*Sorry. It meant to say short STRANGLE
If you are really sure about the range, then you can certainly do this Santhosh. However, I think you should look at short strangle and not short straddle.
Actually, there is no way to be really sure about the range. I just see there are huge numbers of open interest standing at these points nearly 5 million on each strikes i.e at 270 and 300. I am not seeing any reason for any huge moves before expiry and stock is not really moving. Is that reason strong enough?
Santhosh, it is a different thing if you are certain about the range. However, it is better to always have an element of the margin of safety in your trades.
Generally short straddle or strangle gives better results in range bound markets. It is even bit easier to hedge our position by neutralising the delta and thus offers relatively less risk. However, the biggest risk is some unexpected news which happens overnight. It would not have been captured in IV also. The price of a stock may open even at 10% high or low. Even stoploss wont save u. Of course it doesn’t happen always. But when it happens, it takes away all the small profits we made in several previous trades along with some investment too. Eating like sparrow and shitting like elephant. Like what happened with SBIN in oct2017. So how do we address this in case of short straddle or strangle?
Completely agree, Santhosh. This is true with writing deep out of the money options as well. The several small profits one makes can be wiped out in one black swan event. In this context, I’d suggest you read Anti Fragile, by Taleb.
a. In the above case study, Puts drop value faster than Calls..Is it because volatility has a larger effect on Puts than Calls?
b. Do you always prefer Option strategies to minimize risk. Do you ever consider trading – Naked Calls, Puts? 🙂
a. Not really, it is the delta acting here. Volatility has the same effect on both calls and puts
b. I do a mix of both, but certainly spreads if I’m deploying more cash?
Tks, Karthik.
Good Morning,
Suppose I execute Short Straddle at ATM and simultaneously go long on both Call and Put at lower and Upper Breakeven points.
Will I be expected to loose money except for calculation errors I mean insignificant losses,
Limited profit in case market remains within range.
Thanks
You’r overall strategy breakeven will be very high, Narender. I’d suggest you put these numbers on excel and check the payoff and breakeven. You can improvise on the same excel used in this chapter actually.
Hello sir, I found that there are some many crashes in “stock market crashes in India wikipedia site”, is all the crashes very serious, keeping all these in mind how does one write strangles sir?
The seriousness depends on how you define a ‘crash’. I’d be happy to ignore anything lower than 5% as a crash.
I tried varsity app it is very intuitive and nice.
To make my short call option delta neutral I have hedged it with long futures sir, but in this case how to protect my position from gap openings sir, If I hedge gamma then I have to buy options which will be affected by theta decay.
Also how to select strikes for writing calls sir?
Glad you did, Mani. Please don’t forget to rate the app 🙂
The gap up opening should be taken care of by the futures itself. To select strikes, I’d suggest you look at the standard deviation, add 2SD to CMP and look for strikes.
rated sir😀
When should I adjust my position, how much of delta variation can be allowed in a delta neutral position sir?
Thanks, Mani!
Adjust the delta if your position has transitioned from ATM to deep OTM/ITM.
ok sir, in a nifty delta neutral position with long fut and short CE, if the underlying does down then we will lose more money in long futures position than short CE positions isn’t it sir? how to manage such a scenario?
That’s probably correct. Unfortunately, no hedge there, unless you have a far OTM put.
I don’t understand “unless you have a far OTM put” statement sir, but if I have a far OTM put then that will also lose money if the underlying goes down, isn’t it sir?
No Mani, if you have a PE, you make money when the underlying goes down.
oh k sir!! I thought of short PE position but I think you are implying long PE position.
Yup, long PE.
I think I am getting the idea sir, how to select strikes for long PE sir? should I use mid or far expiry so that theta won’t affect it? also I have to make sure that overall position is delta neutral?
This depends on time again. If this is close to expiry, you may want to consider ATM or close to ATM strikes. If there is more time to expiry, then slightly OTM will also do.
Hello sir, I need your help again 🙂 . To create a delta neutral position with long fut, short CE and long PE I created two linear equations one for delta and another for theta, for different PE and CE strikes with respective delta’s and theta’s, I got number of solutions in this method, problem is how to select one solution? also here I assuming the theta randomly, is there any other way to do it?
overall is the above way correct? is there a book that explores the concept deeper?
I’d suggest you read Sheldon Natenberg’s book on Option Pricing. At any point, look at just the Delta.
ok sir, I will read it.
Sure.
Hello,
I like your short straddle strategy. That is also what I mostly use for my trades.
I have a question. When you see clearly the moving direction of an underlying stocks (up or down), do you still use delta neural strategy? Have you ever tried to use delta positive strategy, which would be in favor of the moving direction of the underlying stock? I know it could be risky if the undering stock moves in the opposite direction. However, if the moving direction intraday is quite obvious, this delta positive strategy will result in higher profits, in addition to the time decay. Of course, you can always use the dynamic strategy to adjust your delta value. Do you agree?
If you have tried this positive strategy, what is the sum delta value you would leave as positive? 0.2, 0.3 or else per pair of option? Taking into consideration of the margin requirement of selling options, we may need the sum delta value bigger than a certain value. Or the paper profits could be lower than just buying the equivelent stocks with the same amount of margin.
I hope I make myself understood. Thanks for your time and considerations!
I agree with you, if you are certain about the direction, then a naked strategy or delta +ve helps in boosting the profits. But then, it carries the risk of higher losses. So this really depends on your risk appetite.
The extent of delta positive also depends on your risk appetite…I’d probably stick to under 0.5.
Dear Karthik, today I find an unusual thing while trading.
I shorted Nifty 11600 CE @ 3.
At 3 27 PM NIFTY spot was trading at 11603.8
But that NIFTY 11600 CE was trading at 0.05.
How this can be possible. When Nifty spot was at 11603.8 then Nifty 11600 must be ITM.
AS it is a CE so due to no time value and only intrinsic value the price should be 11603.8-11600= 3.8
But being in ITM how it is trading at 0.05?
Can you throw some light on this matter.
Note- I took trade of Nifty weekly expiry. So that 11600 CE was of 11th April expiry
Praveen, although the 11600CE was ITM by 3.8, but it was trading at 0.05 for two reasons –
1) You are looking at LTP@3:27, but remember the settlement is based on the last 30mins average. I think Nifty settled under 11600 today.
2) Even if the above was not true… let’s say the market’s average was trading at 11603, then the STT would kick in and you’s end up paying more STT than the actual profit.
Hello Karthik
I would like to understand option strategy adjustments method.
By adjustment strategy, I guess you are talking about keeping the strategy delta neutral?
Yes ,
but explain with an example.
I had following trade on nifty april expiry
11000 PE SOLD @ 296.8
11000 CE SOLD @ 166.15
11500 PE SOLD @ 179
11500 CE SOLD @ 275
Here my view was nifty would not close above 11800, but since it was a long way to expiry and nifty had reached 11800 my position was in loss, I could not figure out how to adjust the trade and hold it till expiry
Praveen, for 4 leg option strategies, you need to use a tool like Excel to visualize your P&L and breakeven point. I would suggest you use the excel provided in the chapter as a template and input the data to see how this pans out.
Hello Karthik
Thanks for your guidence.
as per you ‘Now here is something for you to think about – When you initiate a straddle you are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will your position still remain delta neutral? If yes, why do you think so? If no, then is there a way to keep the position delta neutral?
If you can build your thoughts around these points, then I can guarantee you that your options knowledge is far greater than 90% of the market participants. To answer these simple questions, you will need to step a little deeper and get into 2nd level of thinking.’
Karthik can you please guide little bit on this 2nd level of thinking.
Praveen, this is quite simple.
Assume you set up a straddle with ATM CE and PE options. The delta here would be 0.5 for CE and -0.5 for PE. Net Delta would be 0. Now assume after you set up, the market moves, now based on this move, the delta values also change…say something like 0.65 for CE and -0.4 for PE, so the net delta would be +0.15, which means the overall position is no longer delta neutral.
This is what I was trying to convey.
Hello Karthik
Thanks a lot.
Will keep asking for your guidence.
Take care
Most welcome, Praveen.
Karthik sir how to find the combined net break even points of two short straddles .
The best way is to create an excel with all the 4 legs and check the combined payoff.
Hello Karthik,
I want to trade short straddle today, where bank nifty spot price is at Rs. 31450/-
1. Short ATM 31400 CE @ Rs. 314.20/-
2. Short ATM 31400 PE @ Rs. 218/-
The credit that I would have received is Rs. 532.20/-. Considering the upper breakeven point would be 31900 and the lower breakeven point would be 30900, I understand if the spot price moves beyond these prices then I will be in loss, now to cover up this, what if my strategy is like this (4 Leg strategy)
1. Short ATM 31400 CE @ Rs. 314.20/-
2. Short ATM 31400 PE @ Rs. 218/-
3. Long OTM 31900 CE @ Rs. 112.15/-
4. Long OTM 30900 CE @ Rs. 75.5/-
So in this case I would receive the credit of Rs. 344.55/- (314.20+218-112.15-75.5).
1. I would like to know if this strategy works in my favor
2. What will be the P&L look like.
3. Also would request you to please share the excel sheet for the above 4 leg spread.
Awaiting for your reply.
Thanks & Regards
Ananth Gopal
Hello Karthik,
Sorry typo error
1. Short ATM 31400 CE @ Rs. 314.20/-
2. Short ATM 31400 PE @ Rs. 218/-
3. Long OTM 31900 CE @ Rs. 112.15/-
4. Long OTM 30900 PE @ Rs. 75.5/-
Awaiting for your reply.
Thats alright, I did respond to your earlier query. Request you to check that, thanks.
Ananth, by adding the additional legs, you are protecting yourself from the unlimited risk associated with the short straddle. The PE protects you on the downside and the CE on the upside. You can check the payoff here – https://web.sensibull.com/builder
Hi Karthik,
These days when I open varsity, I am being redirected to other webpages.
I was in a doubt that some redirection is happening somehow, may be in my system or mobile.
But now, when I opened in a different system, this was redirected to some website and immediately , the site wasn’t opened and antivirus promoted , Web Attack.
So, I think there is some virus (or) some redirection to some affected urls is being happened.
Kindly try to resolve this issue.
Thanks
Srikrishna
Hey, thanks for bringing this to our notice. Maybe your system is compromised? I will double check with our tech team as well. Thanks.
Hi Karthik,
Now, the issue seems to be resolved. I don’t see redirection happening to other url’s now.
Earlier, I don’t think so my system was compromised, since I was checking in one of the secure systems where there is hardly any chance of being compromised. But , right now, the issue looks that it is resolved. Thankyou.
Thanks
Srikrishna
Thanks so much for letting us know! This was a concern to us 🙂
Dear Sir,
Can u provide live chart for customized straddle and strangle chart for Nifty BankNifty weekly contract. pls help
Paresh
Paresh, you need to check this – https://sensibull.com/
Hi Karthik,
Nifty SPOT on Aug 28-2019 at 1.55 PM is 10994
11000 CE SEP is at 207
11000 PE SEP is at 172
Though 11000 PE SEP is slightly ITM, but premium of CE is high. Does it indicate anything bullish as CE Premium is high?
If we consider both are At the Money options, why CE premium is high, can we draw any useful information from this?
Thanks
Satya.
Yeah, this is a reflection of the demand for calls, which further implies that the market expects a bounce in this expiry.
Hello Karthik,
Again back to your learning material. I always find them really helpful.
I have a simple (may be dumb) question for you.
For a Long Straddle: IV we should choose “Low” and vise versa for Short Straddle.
Can you please give me some idea of may be “Nifty” what should I consider as “Low” & “High” IV value (eg. 15% & 40%) when considering a straddle?
Regards,
Suvajit
This is dependent on the current market situation. For now, I’d consider something as sub 22% as low.
Thanks Karthik.
Just one more query, is India VIX same as Nifty IV? Where can I get this data in order to make some calculations?
Suvajit
Nope, they both are different, Suvajit. Nifty IV represents the implied volatility of a strike you are looking at, while the India VIX can be taken as an implied volatility proxy for the whole market.
Thanks Karthik!! Yes it makes sense.
Good luck, Suvajit. Happy reading 🙂
Have seen the reply of you to Chander : I understand your concern, Chander. I used to face the exact same problem back in the days. I then switched to adjusting the position at the open of the day (based on the previous day’s close) and this started giving me better results. Maybe you can check this.
Karthik anna kindly clarify the same atleast with two examples, hope you will reply
🙂
Austin, when you short a straddle or strangle, you are essentially delta natural. For example, you sell ATM CE and PE, the delta of these positions will be +0.5 and -0.5 respectively. When you add the positions up, you will get a delta of 0, which makes the overall position delta zero.
Now, assume the market moves 2% after you initiate the position. In such a case, the CE would gain delta, let us say it becomes +0.75 and now the PE will lose its delta, so lets say it is -0.45. The overall delta of the position is – +0.75-0.45 = +0.3, making it a delta positive position. Now, if you want to bring this back to delta-neutral, you will have to short a slightly OTM PE which has a delta of -0.3, this will make it delta neutral.
This is what is called as ‘adjusting for delta’, which was being discussed.
‘I then switched to adjusting the position at the open of the day (based on the previous day’s close) and this started giving me better results’
I just want to know about your style of trading with futures
For eg you initiated short stangle when Nifty is at 11010 in the morning, writing 10900PE (eg 5 lots) and 11100ce (5 lots) and at evening nifty is at 10920. So will you be adjusting the delta on the same day while nifty is going down or next day’s opening using futures, or will you be exiting the put option written?
This depends on the variation the delta from neutral position. If it is more than 0.25 or -0.25, and if it is viable (both time and margin availability) to adjust by close, I’d, else I’d adjust the position the next day at open.
Thanks Karthik bro for your quick reply. Wholehearted thanks and wishes to Zerodha team for the spirit to make retail investors profitable. :*
Hope you will shortly publishing delta hedging chapters 🙂
Thanks for the kind wishes, Austin!
Will try and include that sometime soon. Thanks.
As a mentor could you please say your trading P&L on 20/sep/2019 and your startegies on the particular day 😀
There was no strategy for that particular day, Austin. No one knew this was coming. However, I was invested in stocks and those bounced 🙂
Hi,
In attached excel file of Shot Straddle in your download section below info is given.
Max Loss 165
Max Loss level 7600
Max Profit Unlimited
But I guess Max Profit is 165 and Loss is Unlimited. Kindly confirm as it creates confusion.
I’ve checked the excel, looks fine to me.
Hi,
Can you please post on how to create iron butterdly and iron condor excel sheets. Or help creating one.
Regards,
Narendra
Will try and put up a post, Narendra.
sir,
In all these strategies, can we exit before expiry if our p&l looks positive.
Yes, you can. No need to wait till expiry.
thank you sir .
Welcome!
Hello Sir, Just need clarity on this, like if one write call options and continue to hold it till expiry let say an slightly OTM option but at expiry he is unable to buy it or Square off his position so in such case will there would be any penalty for the same ..?
Thanks,
Manish
Nothing to worry as long the option is OTM. You’ll have bring stock if it is ITM option (only stock option), check this – https://zerodha.com/z-connect/queries/policy-on-settlement-of-compulsory-delivery-derivative-contracts-update-oct-2019
hello karthik sir,
first of all, thanks for such a knowledgeable content.
now, my question is, can’t selling 2SD & -2SD or 1SD & -1SD call and put after measuring mean before one week of expiry is good strategy??
please do reply
Yup, preferably a week.
Thank-you Sir for your guidance !!!
Happy reading!
sir
my question is Little bit silly at this level.
I have a doubt on that p&l of infosys example. as starting of trade , he received premium of 95 an after execution remain 75,
how it is become profit 20/lot? it should be loss 20/lot.
It depends on the position also…long or short. In this case, the position is short I guess.
Did you published chapter on delta Hedging ?
Nope, nothing in specific. However, if you look at the delta neutral options strategies, they are kind of delta hedged.
Hi Karthik,
Any recommendation/insights on ETF which tracks NIFTY ? Is there any ETF on which we can sell options(call or put) to reduce average cost ?
Check out Nifty bees.
Sir my question is about premium trading.
Suppose I buy option at rs 5 (premium) at after sometime its traded at rupees 7. So I so I sold theoption at 7 and receive premium 2 rupees.
Again
Suppose I write option at rs 7 (premium) at after sometime its traded at rupees . So I so I sold theoption at 5 and receive premium 2 rupees.
Its also same incase of long straddle and short staddle as the both starategy is combination of eithe buying options or selling option.
My question is that in other type strategy wher buy and sell combined how the premium trading in profit or loss caculated?
Suppose call ratio back spread
Sell 1 call premium=x
Buy 2 call. premium=y
Stategy cost= x-y=10
After some time it’s traded at (x-y+2)=12
So it is in profit 2 rupees or loss 2 rupees.
How will we determine that
By delta, or net credit net debit?
I have no practical experience in option trading.
Yes, it works the same way for combined strategies as well.
Sir my question is about premium trading.
Suppose I buy option at rs 5 (premium) and after sometime its trading at rupees 7. So I sold the option at 7 and receive premium 2 rupees as profit.
Again
Suppose I write option at rs 7 (premium) and after sometime its trading at 5 rupees . So I buy the option at 5 and receive premium 2 rupees as profit.
Its also same incase of long straddle and short staddle as the both starategy is combination of either buying options or selling option.
My question is that in other type strategy where buy and sell is combined,how the premium trading in profit or loss caculated?
Suppose call ratio back spread
Sell 1 call premium=x
Buy 2 call. premium=y
Stategy cost= x-y=10
After some time it’s traded at (x-y+2)=12
So it is in profit 2 rupees or loss 2 rupees.
How will we determine that
By delta, or net credit net debit?
I have no practical experience in option trading.
hi karthik.
Delta hedging using Future.have u written chapter on it .
if yes .plz provide link
Not yet. Will do that sometime.
HI KARTHIK ,
PLZ WRITE A CHAPTER ON CALENDAR SPREADS STRATEGY
Here you go – https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/calendar-spreads/
hi karthik .
i checked this is future material on calender spreads strategy .anything on option strategy .
buy current month option and selling in next month and vice versa
Unfortunately, we don’t have anything on options (calendar spread). Will plan to put up something soon.
Hi, In the excel on short straddle it is stated that, profit is unlimited and loss is limited, Is it true?
Profit is limited to the extent of the premium received, losses can be unlimited.
Karthik Sir, you’re great. Good explanation with example. However the excel sheet appears to be incorrect. It shows as net debit when it should be net credit. And the Profit and loss shows incorrectly. Would you mind updating the correct one
?
Thanks for the kind words.
Let me check the excel, I think its correct, else we would not have got the correct payoff. Let me check anyway.
Stategy pay off is correct. I needed to change market expiry valued. Howeveve the sheet should read net credit in place of net debit. and max should profit should be limited. May correct the error and upload it.
Thanks, let me relook at that.
I did short straddle on Indusind on 27th with ATM vols at 110%. Company delacred result post market hours. However on 28th , vols continued to remain at 110% even when stock hit upper circuit and closed the day at 17% rally. What could be the reason for volatility not cooling off when uncertainty (results) is over?
This is unusual but possible, Milan. The reason could there are more factors/events that the markets expect, which have not come to light yet. Vol may drop post that. Please do keep me posted on how this goes. I’m curious as well 🙂
Respected Sir,
After going this chapter and all comments, I could get good Idea about how to keep the delta neutral. But I am stuck with very basic doubt. I am not able to clearly identify why delta neutrality is to be maintained. In what way non zero value of delta affect profitability or loss. Kindly explain with an example sir. (I checked all the comments sir, but could not locate any such doubts raised by any one. Probably I am missing somethin very fundamental . But I have understood the effect of delta on naked options very clearly)
Warm Regards.
Delta neutral means the overall delta of the position is = 0. Which implies that your position is insulated against any directional movement.
Delta = +ve means your position has a long bias, which means you’ll lose money if the market goes down.
Delta = -ve means your position has a short bias, which means you’ll lose money if the market goes up.
Hi Karthik, really loved your article kudos to zerodha and team.
I have small doubt, can we implement short straddle for intraday(nifty 50) by buying atm positions which is delta netrual(premium 118 and 165) and has IV of 22% and 33% respectively. Assuming nifty only moves 100 points in one direction and breakeven is 200 points. what would be P/L for the same.
Can you please clarify this.
Yes, you can Naveen. P&L depends on the premium 🙂
Hi Karthik,
Can we also keep the delta-neutral by buying multiple strikes at OTM and ITM simultaneously? Thanks
Hmm, yes as long as the deltas adds up to 0 🙂
Hi Karthik,
I am big fan of your explanation, what an amazing content, kudos to your efforts.
if possible can you please try to share strategies which makes profits irrespective of market direction, with low risk.
Happy to note that, Krishna!
Call ratio spreads do that, but the trick is to ensure you execute the strategy at right prices.
Dear Sir,
Have you posted Delta Hedging Chapter some where in the module?
Thanks in advance,
Vidyadhan Gedam
Nope, not yet.
It would be great if you can highlight the importance of hedging here. Selling naked straddle can be risky if underlying asset moves by a big %age. Better use iron butterfly/iron condor… Also what should be the adjustment stratergy when trade goes against you.
Will probably add a supplementary reading to this. However, any sort of adjustment can be very tricky as it can get very expensive.
Hello Karthik!
I have a question.
What do you think volatility would be 1 week before an announcement? Volatility 1 or 2 before announcement? Volatility 1 or 2 days
after announcement? Volatility 1 week after announcement? Please answer high or low?
Thanking you!!!
Depends on the nature of the announcement and the impact it will have on the stock or the markets.
Also Karthik, even in the Long Straddle the delta won’t be constant. Right? Shall I go short furtures to keep it neutral?
AS the markets move, so will the overall delta of the position.
Hi Karthik Sir,
While reading this marvelous chapter and while you were explaining your take on how the long straddle could be modified and how the volatility plays a major role in both the types of straddles, I came to note one interesting thing, when I opened the India Vix daily chart I found that in the period before the covid 19 the charts were an apocalypse of paper umbrellas. Which means that during the day the volatility would fall to a certain level ( like until 2:00 pm) and then it would go back again. So considering this if we placed a long straddle at the start of the day or a short straddle at around 2 p.m. wouldn’t we be able to book a profit if this condition is true?
P.S: I know I’m sounding kind of crazy but tell me your take on this. 🙂
I dint notice this, but I’m not surprised, these things do happen in markets 🙂
Edit: A short straddle at the start of the day and a long straddle at around 2 pm.
Figured as much 🙂
Regarding the question asked, I think for small changes, net delta will remain ~0. But in case there are major changes in price, let say the spot is 7700 now from 7600 earlier, CE delta will be around ~1 while PE delta will be around ~0.
So the net delta would be ~1 (-1 since it’s a short position).
As long as the underlying changes, there will is a non -zero change in delta. It is just that for major changes, the change in the delta is more tangible.
Hello Karthik,
I am novice in share market. I liked the way you have explained short straddle but I am skeptical about the figures that you have presented. If the nifty changes from 7600 to 7200 or 8000, so will it’s premiums for call and put. Then, why all PL calculations are done using constant premiums (77 & 88)? Can the losses be capped by applying stop loss?
The premium is constant from your perspective. Once you enter a trade, the premium at which you’ve entered becomes fixed for your trade.
At the end of the discussion on the short straddle, there is a excel template that can be downloaded. My qn is: for the short straddle, this excel template shows a number against “max loss”. And also shows “Unlimited” as the Max profit.
Isnt this incorrect?
Short stradde: max loss is unlimited – as I have understood this.
Appreciate a revert.
Tx
Yes, for both straddle and strangle, max loss to stretch to unlimited.
Sir,
I wanted to know whether any brokerage is being charged for BUY side if I sell a naked option and let it expire OTM option having closing premium as zero on expiry day. My brokerage is charging brokerage and GST for zero premium call expired.
No brokerage if you let an OTM option expire.
In case of any event by using short straddle, if the price goes below LB or Above UB we will be in loss. Can we minimise that loss by buying put option below LB and call option above UB. If so, can you please explain. I am new to options trading. Thank You
Yeah, you can but deep OTMs and protect the position. You will be paying for the premium but its ok.
let us say currently banknifty ATM is 19900 and so if I follow this strategy I will sell 25 June 19900 CE and 19900 PE which have premiums of about 900 each. Along with that, I want to hedge the position by buying 19900-900 = 19000 PE AND by buying 19900+900=20800 CE for which I need to premium of 39 and 42 respectively in weekly series.
My doubt is that the will this above process can make my position delta neutral? My idea is to make the loss = 0. If there anything wrong in above process. Can you please correct me. Thank You
This will ensure that you are protected on either side, and your profit will continue to remain within the range i.e. between the upper and lower breakevens.
Sold Tata motors, 125 PE and 85 CE, both ITM. Collected Rs. 46 Premium
View on Tata Motors:
Bearish view post result.
IV: 95 and IVP – 73% higher than Historical IV.
PCR: 1.03.
Expectation:
IV will fall post result and had a bearish view based on fundamental analysis.
It was unlikely that tata motors will break its support 85 and resistance 125.
Expected IV and PCR to fall.
As per ND method, 1SD: lower range 90 and upper range 130.
My thought before trade:
Sell 125 PE and Sell 85 CE, premium and volatility will come down.
To protect against the directional move I choose Delta neutral strategy but on ITM options.
Holding Period: 8-10 days
Result:
Tata Motors fell from 105 to 95
Total premium fell from 46 to 36.
As there was a shift in the delta, to make it delta-neutral again, sold 115 CE.
Total Profit: 31175/-
Dear Karthik, please let me know if the thought process is right or how I can improvise this trade.
Anil, yes, thats right. Few things though –
Why are you doing this with ITM options and not ATM? I agree, you’d have opted for ITM for higher premium collection but it comes with a higher risk. So do think about this. Maybe put some numbers down and figure what would have happened if you had shorted ATM strikes. Also, if the view is bearish, why delta neutral? Maybe you should have set up a bear put spread?
Took ATM Delta neutral strategy as well and this too is in profit. Risk & Margins are much lower compared to ITM for obvious reason.
the only reason I took ITM because puts premium has gone up over the last few days and expected it to fall.
I do try with bear put spread. and the only reason I am doing delta neutral is too avoid directional risk.
otherwise, OTM delta neutral strategy is giving good profit with minimum risk and less margin.
I am getting confident in building and executing trades. Thank you so much.
Thanking you is what I can do for now before I come and see you in Banglore.
Nice 🙂
Your profitability is always higher when you take directional bets, for example in this case you were bearish, so you need to take that bet. I’m not saying market neutral is bad, 9 out of 10, I’d prefer market neutral strategies…which implies getting the direction is hard, but when you do, you should bet. Of course, this makes sense only if you are super convinced about your directional view.
Dear Karthik,
Thank you so much for your guidance, will definitely work on this.
with time I will develop more confidence in directional trade.
I am so thankful to you and varsity, I have utilize my lockdown time really well.
I will keep taking your help and advice shamelessly. I believe a teacher is 100 times better than 10000’s of any influencer.
Good luck, Anil. I hope you continue to stay profitable 🙂
Hello Karthik,
As someone said here that– “As the market moves, position won’t be delta neutral any longer. In order to bring the position back to delta neutral one can make use FUTURE as it carries delta of 1. Options can also be used for the same. This strategy is a very good strategy for traders who just want to earn the TIME VALUE OF MONEY. The only catch is it is a very HIGH RISK – HIGH REWARD strategy.”
I know that using futures can sum up the deltas to zero but nonetheless we’re still using some options right? The deltas do change for the options, for e.g if I short two options with delta -0.5 and buy one futures at that time. But gradually the delta of the two options that we shorted will change and deltas won’t sum up to -1.
Then why bother having a futures contract if the deltas change anyway
Its an assumption that it will hit 1, what if it is any other value?
Hi
I want to understand one thing. Do we have to hold the strategy till expiry and not square off our position even on the day of expiry ? Because in the payoff, the difference of strike price is also considered.
Kindly elaborate.Thanks
Yes Pankaj, these are mainly with the expectation that the position is held to expiry. However, you can square off the position just before expiry.
hi karthik, how can i chart option spread as a whole. suppose i enter into a strangle and want one chart chart of combined premium
Ah, I think is is possible on Sensibull. Please do check with them once.
as the delta of the position turns negative or positive we can neutralize the delta again by buying or selling of shares with the same delta.
example : – If the delta turns positive to +55 = short 55 shares of infosys.
if the delta turns negative to -10 = buy 10 shares of infosys.
this is one out of many ways to keep the short straddle delta neutral.
as we know the volatility crunch and theta decay is in our favor and the profitability increases.
the worst case in this delta hedging is when the markets rallied back or drop back to the strikes of the short straddle, we will miss out some profits by delta hedging.
Yup, that makes sense. Its an expensive affair though 🙂
With response to the question posted at the end of chapter, the only thing that could add or subtract more deltas and move one’s position from being delta neutral is GAMMA.
With GAMMA in mind, I suggest for the sake of all people interested in learning options deeply and deploying such delta neutral spreads, you mention the concept of gamma theta trade-off that the trader has to face when setting such delta neutral spreads and explain briefly about the effect/risk that gamma and theta can pose, and their directly proportional relationship. For example, it will help traders to know not to trade short straddle near expiry as gamma is highest, or even long straddle since the theta is also high. So risk factor is increased significantly near expiry.
Basically, if one want’s to market to move, passage of time hurts. If one wants market to stay still, passage of time helps. No trader can have it both ways
Thats true, you said it well, no trader can have it both ways 🙂
Gamma risk is the most misunderstood and complex risk wrt options. I’ll try and dig deeper into this at some point and put up supplementary notes
@street_trader_666
i would like to correct you, when you adjusts your deltas after the position has moved from being delta neutral it is referred as GAMMA HEDGING as gamma has added or removed deltas. delta hedging is when you establish delta neutrality or become directionally neutral when you establish a trade by simultaneously buying or selling the underlying.
and I believe the worst case of such position is one sided sharp move on either side. what if even after covering deltas the underlying keeps moving in a single direction, this will create even more deltas. so covering deltas will become expensive like Mr. Karthik said. Any further adjustments would cost even more, it will also increase your exposure in the underlying significantly. so a trader needs some experience to decide when to hedge and when to leave deltas open. also a trader can hedge by partially leaving some delta open to cover later if the possibility of one sided move is high.
Hi Karthik,
I was looking to sell the Far OTM call option for weekly expiry nifty. ie. priced at Rs2.45 now (this has a ITM probability of 7%)
If i sell 1 lot, the premium will be Rs2.45*75 =183.75
But the brokerage i would need to pay is 20*2 = 40
which means the nett i can win here is 183.75-40 = 143.75 (excl. STTs)
This makes me uncomfortable writing this option. Is there any option to bring the futures pricing of 0.03% or Rs20 whichever is lower for options also ?
Sir,
I sold both oct 1 expiry at the money 11500 ce and pe , nifty is at 11500 and brought 24 sep expiry 11500 ce and pe .Hear what is my max risk and reward for intraday and expiry.. please answer my question thanx
I’d suggest you use this tool https://web.sensibull.com/options you’ll not only figure the max, min P&L, but can also visualize it.
Hi,
This week starting , atm 11400 ce and pe is combined 250rs and next week atm 11400 ce and pe is combined is 350and the difference is 100. Always this week and the next week atm options difference is same or it changed, if it changed how and why..thanks
Premiums keep changing due to various reasons, bid and ask included.
Hi Karthick,
To check the Short Straddle strategy I was first doing virtual trading on Sensibull. I sold PUT and CALL options both of TCS. I noticed that as the underlying price of TCS moved up from ATM the Option premium of both PUT and CALL (of the ATM I shorted) was rising and I was in a loss in both PUT and CALL .
I noticed this for around 10 min and then TCS underlying price again started coming done. Was the increase in premium for PUT option b/c of change in IV?
If yes then how frequently does IV change for a strike price. Also are you aware of some FREE OPEN Rest endpoints which can return Option contract real-time.
Thanks.
Yes, the change can be attributed to IV change, although I suspect this won’t have been a big change (considering a 10-minute window). Not sure about the data you’ve asked. I’m aware of this, but it is paid and I’m not sure if its the same format you’d need – https://www.nseindia.com/market-data/real-time-data-subscription
To add to above, I observed the same when the underlying price was going down, and both PUT and CALL premiums were rising.
Ok. Do check my previous response.
How to select strike price for Short Straddle? so that we will have max chance of getting premium in our favor.
This depends on the time to expiry. Usually, ATM offers the max premium.
How to trade short straddle in intraday with stoploss?
Keep the SL as you’ve estimated on each of the legs individually.
Yes, that’s true that ATM offers max profit/premium. But how can I know like this ATM price is perfect to make short straddle? How to select best ATM price for stocks or indices.
There is only 1 ATM strike for both CE and PE, so there is nothing to choose from 🙂
Hey Karthik,
Writing you to share high adrenaline rush experience I faced while doing short iron butterfly on Mindtree, my first ever options strategy!!!
Hopefully, with your expert comments, other budding strategy executors will get some ready made experience from this episode and avoid potential mistakes. Based upon my analysis over the weekend, I wanted to do the following:
Mindtree spot as of Friday – 1393
Buy PE 1340 strike at 12
Sell PE 1400 strike at 50
Buy CE 1460 strike at 5
Sell CE 1400 strike at 23.55
I was all set to execute this trade this morning in the above order and also made ensure the sufficient margin for these positions using options calculator. Here is what happened:
1) I entered my buy PE order and left MARKET ORDER by default. To my horrific surprise, system executed this order at 18 and in a few moments dropped down to 7. As mentioned above, Friday’s price for this leg was 12
2) For other legs, it took me various hits and trials to get it executed as either the strike prices were not available in the option chain or the order did not get executed as per my preferred price
3) Clearly, the difference in prices for my strikes skewed the entire risk/reward, making this trade less worthwhile
Now, I have reverse problem for squaring off these trades as some of the bids or offers are not available for the above strike prices.
Can I request you to share urgently what is the best way to get out of this trade well before expiry (say by wednesday) and future learnings for me and fellow options traders?
Many thanks,
Rajan.
1) Rajan, how did you place a market order on Mindtree? We don’t allow market orders on stock options.
2) All strikes made available will be available on the trading terminal across all brokers.
3) Yes, execution risk is a big factor to consider.
Great article
Happy reading!
When we invoke the straddle then automatically we are insulated from the market direction, so where so ever the market will move, our position will remain delta neutral.
Right???
Hello Mr. Karthik
Very big fan of your writing and cheers to Team Zerodha for blessing us with Varsity.
In the previous module, if I’m not wrong I remember learning that ATM options have relatively high gamma which eventually makes the deltas change rapidly. So my question is how would shorting the ATM strike would put us in a profitable position considering that aspect. Please educate me if I’m wrong. Thanks
Thats right, Tharun. However, these are not naked shorts. These shorts are always hedged in spreads.
Hi sir,
In above case study what if,
As results announced @ 9:18am and due to great results market direction will start to moving up. Hence isnt it make sense to square- off the loss making leg (1140CE) and sticking to profit making leg (1140CE).
Will it be efficient or there is any risk to deploying this?🤔
Yes, you can. In fact, people do this quite often. But once you square off and ride on a single option position, then you are exposed to directional risk, you just need to be aware of this.
Hi sir what if, once the market has moves and deltahas changed so we take a long position on it on each side of our short,can that be workable will that make delta neutral ??please relpy your reply will surely be appreciated Thanks sir for this chapter.
Atul, the easiest way to figure of you are delta neutral is by adding up the deltas. The sum of all the deltas across your positions should add up to 0, if yes, then you are delta neutral.
1. I have two questions as follows
a) Can we make long straddle delta neutral by selling the future
b) Is Delta neutral is also possible by constructing a short straddle in the current expiry week and long straddle in the next expiry week simultaneously.
c) If b is correct then which will be beneficial short straddle in current week/long straddle in next week expiry or long straddle in current week/short straddle in next week expiry simultaneously
1a) Not really, by selling future, you add more to the short side
b) Yes
c) It does not really matter
Hi Karthik,
Wonderful explanation of short straddle, i really love your articles about trading, but i am still unable to reposition options for delta neutrality. how do i hedge it with futures.
Can u please make a chapter on that ( delta hedging), i see a lot of people asking the same.
Perhaps, Lakshmi. I’m on the last chapter for personal finance, will probably do that once this is done.
Sir, you explain everything very well .But I have a doubt in delta hedging. After constructing the short straddle , we buy a future to make it delta neutral. If market goes down sharply , then we lose money both for buying the future as well as writing the put option. Then how this strategy will be helpful
You are delta neutral when you sell the call and put option. By adding a long future, you are more long than short, hence not delta neutral.
Hello, Just a minor typo. thru this chapter and previous chapter. I think “breakeven” is referred as “breakdown” in all the occurrences. Thanks
Ah, need to check this. Thanks for pointing this, Easwar.
Hello Sir,
Have you written about Delta, Gamma hedging in any of these chapters?
Yes, please do check the previous module.
Dear Sir,
In case of currency option trading, short straddle is beneficial for which one, weekly or monthly option contract?
If done right, its works across all expiries.
When it to implement for better result, first half of the expiry or second half of the expiry or very first day of the starting of a expiry series?
Depends on the market and the opportunity it provided 🙂
Hi Sir, please explain why have you suggested to take position 3-4 days earlier than the result date – in the Infosys example?
To ensure you capture premium which is expected to be higher owing to higher volatility.
7600 CE is trading at 77
7600 PE is trading at 88
In this case if you put a stop loss of (77) for the CE, and (88) for PE, say if the market moves in one direction,say up , then loss from CE will be zero ( 77 received in premium- stop loss from CE(also 77)). You get to keep the PE premium of 88.
So overall you end up in profit, if the markets goes down, you keep the call premiums and lose the put premiums. If the market goes up and then down, you lose both premiums. You still don’t end up in loss.
This sounds a bit simplistic, do you think this works out in real trading?
Yeah, sounds simplistic 🙂
In reality, you will have to consider other variables like volatility and time and assess its impact on the premium.
Hello Sir,
1) Should Short Strangles/Straddles be implemented the day before the result as that would have the highest premium due to volatility being the highest?
2) Lets say the result is good and market moves in a direction, could I exit the losing option and retain the winning one?
3) For Long Strangles and straddles I could just buy the options 4-6 days before and square off immediately after the result. Assuming I feel that there would be a good result?
1) yes, but this depends on the event and the kind of volatility it induces in the market
2) Yes
3) Yes and assuming the volatility also increases
Dear Sir,
With the onset of new events like quarterly results etc, the volatility always increases.
Would there be a case where it does not increase
Volatility does not always increase with events, it really depends on the events per say.
Thank you for this amazing chapter and module, 🙂
In the short straddle strategy, let’s say when market moves high. The Call option of ATM strike will now expire as deep ITM. So delta here will approximately be close to 1. Since we have shorted CE, delta will be -1. Opposite to this when price of underlying increases at expiry, ATM put will expire as worthless OTM option so delta here will be close to zero. Hence net delta at expiry will be = Delta of CE + Delta of PE = -1 + 0 = -1.
To make Delta equal to zero, we would need to add some instrument which has delta =1.
We can Buy futures contract of same expiry series or we can buy ITM Call option (i.e. squaring-off Short CE option executed for short straddle)
Yes, Vaishal. The thing with straddles and strangles is that they are delta neutral when initiating but the delta-ness changes as the market moves. YOu can adjust this with futures, to ensure it’s delta neutral. But this will always be an expensive affair.
Your way of explaining the things are very simple and super. I learned everything from Varsity. Thank you very much. But, I always regret, why I haven’t started reading before I start trading. Else, I would have had not booked losses.
I observed one thing.. you can make make consistently buy sell options with straddle strategy. The RR ration won’t be applicable hear. Only the possibility will be applicable, considering black swan moment once in 7 years.
Believe me or not, I got this idea of selling just observing the markets and making data point. I never heard about the straddle and strangle. I was wondering, why buying the options before the result day not giving profits.. Now I understand from this blog that IV are high hence premiums are high. I will test the system in this direction now. Thanks a lot for the knowledge.
Thanks, Arun. I’m glad you liked the content on Varsity! Happy learning 🙂
Hi Sir,
Just a question.
Selling a call is Bearish and Selling a Put is bullis
Selling a Call and a Put are opposite strategies which would cancel each other in the event of physical delivery correct?
If you sell a call and put together shouldn’t the margin decrease by that logic as the two options are hedged against each other?
I get your point, but you are exposed to downside risk in both legs. Hence margins dont increase..
What happens when we don’t choose ATM strike? Suppose BN is 35100 today and I go for 35500 short straddle, or may be 34600 short straddle
You won’t get a perfect short straddle if you move away from ATM.
hi karthik,if i have to intitiate short straddle in banknifty with stoploss and target orders together initially i used to do as bracket order but since bracket orders are stopped how can i initiate such short straddle with stoploss and target order together on zerodha,kindly guide?
BO was not possible for short straddle anyway. Anyway, yes, you can use GTT for this.
Hello Sir,
In the Infy example above, why did the person not initiate the trade 1 day before the result? The IV would have been at its peak 1 day before the result and it would have resulted in a higher premium gain for him.
Ah, not really sure. But one reason could be that the IVs may hit a threshold and stay there till the event. Not necessary that it keep increasing till the D day.
Hello Sir,
How does one identify said threshold.
Ideally when is the best time to implement a strangle straddle shot iron butterfly and short iron condor?
There is no predefined best time as such. Really depends on how the market develops.
Hello Sir,
I hope you are doing well.
Now Naukri (info edge) has its results out on Monday. (I am not sure about the time the results would be out, Is there a way I can find the time?)
I am confused about whether I should initiate an iron condor or a long straddle.
The results are expected to be good, but no one can predict where the market moves.
The IVs for Naukri are slightly on the higher side right now.
If its Monday, then maybe its a bit late. I guess you should paper trade this one and be prepared for the next event. This is just a suggestion.
Hello Sir,
1) Couldn’t I set up an iron condor on monday morning and then square of my positions once the results are announced? (Since premium is high)
2) How do I know the time the results are announced? Is it during market hours or after market hours which results in the trade carrying on to tuesday?
1) Yes, you can.
2) You will have to track individual company news for this.
Hi Karthik
you mentioned about delta hedging by adding futures. is there any other way of neutralising the delta esp using the options.
regards
arun
You can, but gets very complicated.
Sir
How to adjust short straddle with options. Please write in detail about short straddle adjustment.
Thank you
Adjustment is a very complicated and expensive process, Abhilash. Not suitable for a regular retail trader. hence I avoided discussing the same.
Hello Sir,
Reliance Ind has its AGM this week.
Its IV has increased substantially while its IVP is roughly in the 90 percentile.
Would it be better to short options or buy options.
Technically it is better to short options but there can be a big move once the news comes.
What exactly can one do?
It depends on your view on volatility. If you expect it to increase further, then you should short option, else you should look at buying. What is your view?
can we have same knowledge with latest examples and some new strategies as this was published around 5-6 years ago and I have started trading/investing around 1 year back
Nothing really changes much now, Sanket. The concepts remain the same.
Thanks to kartik sir for providing us with quality education.
When the market moves upwards, CE would become ITM and PE would become OTM resulting in a (-) delta in the short straddle. Can’t we make it delta neutral by shifting the PE to higher strikes which are ITMs at the time of adjustment?
You can, but the adjustment can be quite complex and involve higher costs. But if you were to do it, then you need to ensure the deltas always add up to 0. So you may have to sell the option that has moved or buy more of the lower delta options.
Let say for the infy example,as the market moved the CE becomes ITM and delta goes to 0.8 and the PE the delta goes to -0.3, the net delta is 0.5…how would buying a future option help in this case?
Do i have to short more ATM puts which have delta of 0.5 to manage the same?
If you want to maintain delta neutral, then you need to short an ATM option, that way the position will have a neutral delta.
Hi it says loss mai be unlimited but what if use stop loss for both the legs lets suppose 40% and lets suppose market starts to go down pe will hit the stop loss and ce will continue to gain so still we can be in profit right ?
Yes, if you use SL then you can cut your position early and manage your positions.
Hello Sir,
Sometimes entering 4 legged strategies and exiting 4 legged strategies are extremely difficult as you have to do it one by one.
Even If I set up a basket order, they would go at mkt and not limit.
So is there a better way I could do this?
Ah no. You have two options – baskets or exit 1 by one.
At the time of entering Straddle, is it necessary that premium of both leg should be same or almost same?
They should be more or less the same, Suhas.
whether short position in ce can be adjusted with short position in PE
Short CE is bearish, like long put.
Hi
I would like to knw how the delata calculated when the lots is increased
Delta remains the same, Shahul. When lots increase, the delta is added up, as I’ve explained in the chapter on Delta.
what if I apply this short straddle on Wednesday one day before expiry will it be profitable ???
Everything depends on how the market moves right?
Hi
If i have have short straddle position, if i dont square off at expiry, what will happen, will i get premium or do i have to square off
Thanks
If both the options expire worthless, then you get to keep the premium.
Hi Karthick,
I can also do adjustments to make my position delta neutral right and necessarily Futures?
let say I do a short straddle on 17500 on NIFTY
so my net delta is 0 , however lets say the market moves to 18000
so my 17500CE delta would be 1 and my 17500PE would be 0.1 (assuming) so net I’m at -0.9 delta
so I can do delta hedging by selling one more PE STRIKE which has delta 0.9 so as to make my position neutral ?
When you initiate a straddle you are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will your position still remain delta neutral? If yes, why do you think so? If no, then is there a way to keep the position delta neutral?
does this the question which you had mentioned above?
and does this also count as “delta hedging” by adding one more position to make it delta netural?
Exactly, that’s how you keep adjusting your position to ensure the overall delta is 0. By doing so, you are eliminating the directional risk and sticking just to the volatility risk.
Thank you for your immediate response sir .
since you have mentioned about the Volatility risk!
is the any way to reduce volatility risk?
since I am adding positions to keep delta as zero!
One of the ways to hedge volatility is by trading the ViX futures. But I guess that’s not possible now. Your best bet is to reduce directional risk.
Hi Sir, regarding how the delta varies when market moves. I am confused here as to why the strategy becomes non-delta neutral when the market moves. If we see the delta values. When strategy is executed it has delta = 0 ( ATM ) but if market moves down then one of them becomes ITM ( 0.7 ) and the other OTM ( 0.3 ) , even then the overall delta is neutral. Am I missing something here?
It will be +0.7 and -0.3. So overall delta is +0.4, so it’s not delta neutral.
Hi karthik
Thanks for a wonderful content you for us. Can you please elaborate how to adjust short straddle or to keep delta neutral. I am new to option selling. I need your help.
Thanks
Irshad Alam
Irhsad, I’m not a big fan of adjusting these positions are it consumes a lot more capital. But anyway, the end objective is to ensure we have a delta neutral position. So at any point, add up the deltas and figure if the overall position is +ve or -ve. Take up positions in such a way that it remains so even when markets move in a direction. For example, say you shorted ATM CE and PE. The market moves down, Puts gain in delta, overall position turns +ve, in this case, you may want to add another CE.
Hi Karthik, hope you are well mate.
I am going through all the modules however didn’t find any chapter on delta Hedging. Do you mean to use same technique which you told in Future to hedge the PF with Beta calculation.
Regards, D
Hi Dipak, yes delta hedging is not available for now. Will try and put that up sometime soon.
1)I CAN SELL (SHORT)ONE PAIR OF BANK NIFTY MEANS WHEN I CAN SQUARE OF
2)IF I HAD SHORT THE OTM BANK NIFTY AND I FAILED TO SQUARE OF ON EXPIRY DATE MEANS WHAT WILL HAPPEN
3)JUST CONSIDER
TODAY IS 1ST JAN AS MONDAY
3RD JAN THURSDAY
10TH JAN IS THURSDAY
I CAN SHORT 1OTH JAN CONTRACT ON 1ST JAN OR NOT
IF I SHORT MEANS WHEN I WANT TO SQUARE OF
I CAN SHORT OTM CONTRACT OF 10TH JAN ON 1ST JAN
To short the bank nifty contract what is the requirement of cash in my account
Perumal, you can square off any time you wish, no need to wait till expiry for this.
Hey. Let’s assume for the above mentioned Infosys example ,as the market moves up the CE sell becomes ITM and delta goes to 0.6 and the PE sell becomes OTM and delta goes to -0.4, So the net delta becomes 0.2 ! Now can I hedge the position by selling one more put option of delta -0.2 ? to make the position neutral? (provided I have enough capital to make more adjustments)
Thank you!!
Yup, you can. This is how you keep positions delta neutral 🙂
Hi,
Could you please clarify this.
if I initiate short Straddle of SBI at strike price of 520, what are the settlement/delivery rules if price on expiry date is 518/ 522. i.e., Should I have margin for purchase of stock when price on expiry date is 518 / should i deliver the stocks when price on expiry date is 522. Or both 520 PE and 520 CE cancel each other?
Thank you.
So the easiest way to figure this is to remember that whichever option is ITM, it becomes due for physical settlement. If both the options are ITM, they can net off and cancel the physical settlement.
In the Infy example:
1. Shouldn’t the volatility (and resultant premiums) have gone up post the announcement, since the results were better than expected?
2. This trader only made money b’cuz the Call option premium did not rise as quickly, right?
B’cuz if it had, he/she would’ve lost money or made lower profits, right?
Basically, he/she got lucky?
3. Due to the call option premium not rising as quickly, a person who, for example, took a long straddle instead of a short straddle, would’ve lost money if he/she closed the trade?
If yes, what should the people who took a long straddle do in this case?
4. A person who took a long straddle would’ve made a profit if the price of Infy (and the call option premium) would’ve gone higher than the upper breakeven, correct?
5. Regarding your question at the end, if the combined delta of the options post a market movement is +0.9, we will have to short futures to become (approximately) delta neutral, right?
6. Also regarding your question at the end, if we take Futures positions to delta hedge, won’t we end up losing money?
7. How often/in what interval should delta hedging be done – every day/every week..?
8. It’s 2022. Have you done a chapter on delta hedging?
1) Volatility increases when there is uncertainty in the market, when the event unfolds, volatility tends to decrease
2) It was designed for such an outcome, not a random trade right?
3) Yes
4) Yup
5) Yes
6) Not really, since you are hedged out
7) As and when the position delta changes
8) Nope, decided not to do since its an very expensive affair for most retail participants. Please see the comments.
When we initiate a straddle we are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will our position still remain delta neutral? If yes, why do we think so? If no, then is there a way to keep the position delta neutral?
No, it won’t remain same in rangebound market, if breaks resistance then again should made the ATM short position of put option and if breaks support level then again should buy ATM short position of call option so that the delta value would be neutral.
Yup, the position won’t remain delta neutral. Markets need not have to break S&R to gain or lose delta, even a simple move will change the delta. To bring the position back to delta-neutral, you can buy or sell options.
Paper trade was 70 % accurate… But we have to be very strict stop loss of at least 20-30% ..
Like with all trades 🙂
This is very great strategy no doubt! but is there any way I can manage to lessen my margin requirements to execute this strategy? I have heard about hedging but I am just clueless about how to do hedging in this case. can you explain a bit if any way exists?
I’d suggest you check the Iron condor chapter for this.
Yes I actually checked it later! Thanks a lot!
Sure, good luck!
I have made a short straddle but i am not able to understand theta decay. Will it show in my P and L the next day or i will get that credited after i square off my position? Or will i have to square off on expiry for it?
No, theta decay is a phenomenon where all else is equal, the premium today reduces compared to premium y’day. The acceleration increases as we go closer to the expiry date.
is this possible to make 5000 per a day using 10 lac capital and using option selling strategies that what i’m going to mention below SELL in the money
BUY ATM options
because the end of the contract date in this type of strategies are getting well returns in my paper trading and strategy builder sites
needed some clarification over all that if we’re able to achieve 0.5% to 1% in a day sir
Nothing is certain, Yuvraj. If that was the case, one may as well target trading with 10Cr and making 5L per day. The point is that markets are uncertain, and having money targets is not a great idea.
Options are way too strenuous to comprehend. I have ample doubts regarding options, but just wanna ask a few:-
1. How FUTURES delta is always = 1?
2. What about the delta value of long futures and short futures?
3. Why the combined delta value should be = 0?
4. The combined delta of the LONG STRADDLE strategy will also alter if the market moves, just like SHORT STRADDLE. Then, why is the same isn’t discussed there, i.e. how to remain always delta neutral?
Sir it will be great if you can incorporate some adjustment technique in each of the option strategies explained by you…
Will try and put up something on this.
Karthik, what happens if an event is after market hours?
As today GDP data is going to release for Q1 and Let’s say I created a short straddle on BANKNIFTY before the event with high volatility so that I can exit as soon as voltaility drops after event. what is all that can wrong here from short straddle point of view? Can volatility go up due to gap opening next day?
There is a chance, Mohit. The general expectation is that the volatility will cool off after the event. Having said that, events can induce more volatility also, this is more so when the events occur overnight (off-market hours) when there is more time for analysis. If the event unfolds during market hours, you are likely to get that small window where the volatility dips and offers you a chance to exit the position.
Thank you Karthik.
Unrelated question, no doubt that conviction will build by experience in trading day in and day out, but is there a book on building conviction in market and decoding various market events/trades/price-movement to get sense of the direction and quantam of change in Indexes/stocks or voltaility in market.
General reading helps, Mohit. Plus there seems to be a lot of good content online on platforms like Twitter as well. Do keep track of that 🙂
Resp Sir,
Today I did some paper trading.
Nifty spot–16352
ATM CALL SELL 16350
ATM PUT SELL 16350
CE PREM RECD 232
PE PREM RECD 223
TOTAL RECD 455
EXP 30 JUNE
STRATEGY SHORT STRADDLE
I KNOW I COULD BE WRONG,BUT I SUPPOSE MARKET WOULD MOVE WITHIN A RANGE–
14900–15500.
Volatility is 22.30 (INDIA VIX).
HOWEVER, THIS THE RANGE WHICH PROMPTS ME TO GO FOR THE STRATEGY.
JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER THIS THOUGHT PROCESS IS OK?
REGARDS. ASHUTOSH.
If you expect the market to trade within a range, then why are doing a short straddle? Maybe you should try short strangle instead.
Sorry! Pl do not read the above.
Resp Sir
Where is your update on delta hedging?
Again, the xlsheet for short straddle shows net debit whereas we create the strategy for net credit by selling ATM CE-PE STRIKES? To quote you:”Setting up a short straddle is quite straight forward – as opposed to buying the ATM Call and Put options (like in long straddle) you just have to sell the ATM Call and Put option. Obviously the short strategy is set up for a net credit, as when you sell the ATM options, you receive the premium in your account.”
Though the result is ok,that is, 165 as per your example of Nifty.
Regards. Ashutosh.
How net credit? When you sell options, you receive premium right?
I quoted you, Sir! You have written that
“Obviously the short strategy is set up for a net credit, as when you sell the ATM options, you receive the premium in your account”.
So why the xlsheet showing net debit?
Lol, I’m sorry, too many things in parallel. Yes, when you sell options, you receive a premium, which is net credit. If you pay a premium (when you buy options, it’s debit).
Yes Sir! Thanks!
Resp. Sir
I want to draw your kind attention that the exelsheet given at the end of the chapter is wrong. That is the same as long straddle. Please check and undo the wrong.
Regards.. Ashutosh.
I will check and update this, Ashutosh.
Sir,
I have a basic understanding that a trade must have a buy and a sell. So incase of long strangle we buy both call and put options. And in case of short strangle we sell both buy and put options. Hence positions will be open in both cases. What about the selling activity for CE and PE in long strangle and buying in short strangle.
A trade is when you execute the 1st leg of a trade. A trade is said to be complete when square off the initial trade by taking up the opposite side. For example – I buy 100 shares of HCL (trade initiated)……after 15 minutes, I decide to sell 100 Shares of HCL (square off, trade completed). The same with strangle or straddle. You initiate by buy (or selling) 2 option…..and when you decide to square off, do the opposite trade but ensure the quantities match.
First thing first, Before Diving deep into answering the question.
A massive Thank You, Dear Karthik Rangappa sir for creating this Wonderful course
Now comes answering Part,
What I believe
1-Delta won’t stay neutral because there is the effect of other Greeks also on the Delta as well on the IV
2- Also, we can Keep Delta Neutral by adjusting (rolling up or down) our Position.
I believe I could be right to some extent. Since I am a Tyro, I could be possibly wrong as well. So please correct me.
Thank You
1) Yes, as stock price moves, so does the delta and therefore your delta neutral position wont stay delta neutral
2) That’s right
Tyro – I had to Google that 🙂
Thanks very much, sir for your response
I have been watching your videos, on learn app, as well as on youtube. You are doing a great job. Your and Prateek sir’s initiative has transformed the stock market learning in a structured manner. Even a Toddler can understand the Market very easily.
I am highly motivated to meet you and Prateek Singh(CEO learn app)
I am just a 1-year college student. That’s why I am tyro to the market.
Thanks, Vikash. Glad you liked the content. Prateek is a great educator, we are super happy to have been associated with him 🙂
Yes, True
Sir, why call & put option volatilities are different for a particular strike price? Does it has something to do with direction of market?
Thats mainly due to the demand and supply dynamics/mismatch.
Sir can you explain how delta will not be neutral for you question
Long deltas and the short delta will cancel out.
the nifty spot was at 17704 and i purchased for creating short straddle
1) short atm ce at 17700 – Rs 156 premium
2) short atm pe at 17700 – rs 163 premium
net credit – Rs 319 , lower break – 17381 , upper break – 18019
so between breakeven points i shouldnt have loss
but on same day around 2 pm nifty spot was at 17555
and my PE premium went to Rs 240 ( 163-240 * 50 ) = -3850 loss
and CE premium went to Rs 108 (156-108 *50) = 2400 profit
so i have to incurred loss of Rs -1450 ( -3850+2400)
why it happened even the nifty spot was trading between lower and upper breakeven points ?
Mahi, in between the breakeven points, you wont have a loss, provided you hold to expiry…but it can result in temporary loss during the expiry as the premiums can fluctuate as they are a function of various other option greeks.
how put stoploss and target orders for short straddle in zerodha..My SL order is not accepted
Not sure why, I’d suggest you call the customer desk once.
hi Karthik,
Its 2022 now. still waiting for your delta neutral delta hedging chapter.
can you please post a link where you or anybody explained this.
I’ll probably do a video on this.
sir , how to calculate current day breakeven point before expiry ?
For option buying you profit moment you cross the premium paid. For example, if you’ve paid 10 as a premium, you are breaking even at 10 and anything higher than 10 is your profit. Likewise, if you have received 10 as premium, you are breaking even at 10, lower the premium goes the higher is your profit.
Where can i get live straddle chartsor create one ?
YOu can check Sensibull platform for this, Vivek.
halo sir
i am following you and like your material and go through all modules and comments now my question is typo errors mentioned in different modules is rectified by today date and material is now compiled
We are working on it, Mukesh. We will fix all the typos 🙂
Hi sir can you please tell me using correct time to use this strategy and when we using other strategy please tell me sir ?
Hi Karthik, would you say range bound strategies like short straddle are good in currency trading? I mean currency can get very volatile (like whats happening now) but it mostly trades with low swings
Yeah, any range bound asset actually.
Hi Karthik, can u pls suggest a option strategy on Natural Gas.
Example. If current price of natural gas is 600, and I sell a call at 600 and sell a put at 600 and to hedge, I buy a put at 500 and buy a call at 700.
Would it be a prudent strategy.
What if on expiry gas prices move to 800 or 1000? what strategy can be adopted.
Thanks.
In this case, you are fully hedged, Mayank. So it should be ok. YOu can key in these numbers in Sensibull and visualize the payoff.
Hi,
For short straddlle, how much margin money is required.
Is it summation of both legs or is it for one leg only?
Regards
It is the sum of both. Check this – https://zerodha.com/margin-calculator/SPAN/
Towards the end of the chapter, the explanation goes like, ‘Now here is something for you to think about – When you initiate a straddle you are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will your position still remain delta neutral? If yes, why do you think so? If no, then is there a way to keep the position delta neutral?’.
Are you talking about any adjustments here? Because I remember you telling me that you aren’t a fan of adjustments. So if not could you explain briefly what you are implying, because I don’t get the point no matter how many times I give this a read? Thanks Sir.
I’m not talking about adjustments here, I’m talking about the changing delta position. Yes, you can adjust this position but at a higher cost 🙂
Yes sir. I see the point. I stopped making adjustments after you clearly explained to me last time. But what I meant was if markets move, the delta will also change. So if there is a way to keep the positions neutral, it must only be through adjustments right? Or is there anything I’m missing here?
Yes, you are right about that Sathish.
If i have short straddle in stocks and i let it expire by itself, there is any physical delivery obligation of ITM option or it gets cash setteled?
If both options are ITM, then there is an obligation for physical delivery. If only leg is ITM and the other is OTM, then there is physical delivery.
I am glad to thank you for the lessons you have updated on the Zerodha varsity platform. I am a student of yours and follow every lesson you updated on Zerodha varsity. Here is my doubt future hedging in Delta is good but when the market moves downward we are facing too much of losses. Here is my scenario for the heading based on delta neutral.
Now the Option spot is trading at 18000 future contract is trading at 18100 and we are entering the 18000 short straddle option contract at the same expiry date, premium of a call option is trading at 50 and the premium of a put option is trading at 60. At the time of expiry, the market went down by 17800 where we will receive a full premium amount from call option Rs. 50 and we will lose Rs. 140 on the put option total loss from this strategy is Rs.90 and in the future, we will make Rs.300 as loss total loss for this whole strategy is 390. Then, how can be this a hedging strategy?
Its hedged at the time of entering a trade, Ram. But as the market moves, one of the legs gets into a loss. This is when you may want to think of either exiting or adjusting the positions. Which also means, the best time to implement something like this is when you expect markets to remain sideways and not really when its trending.
Ohh, Okay thank you. Now my doubt is cleared
Sure, happy learning 🙂
Big no to unlimited risk, it’s okay if I don’t earn but it’s not okay to lose large amount by taking unlimited risk..
Alternative pathways , Russian roulette game in psychology is example if this.
It very bad to be poorer than you are currently.
Never take unlimited risk.
Think what would have happened to Adani option seller ? They will never recover.
Yes, one should always keep risk under check Kirit.
Sir,
I have the below three queries:
(i) In case of delta neutral strategies, should we have to check if the delta is neutral at the end f everyday and act accordingly to buy/sell futures/options accordingly to ensure neutrality? I mean to say what is the standard process to track and ensure of the delta neutral? Have you made any topic on the same? If yes, could you kindly send the link?
(ii) Also, in case of several bearish/bullish outlook based strategies (as you have vividly explained throughout), we have to ensure that the delta is -ve/+ve respectively. However, here also, sometimes the result could alter to +ve/-ve. Do we also have to track on each day basis and act accordingly through buying/selling futures/options? Please suggest. I am not getting this area.
1) Yes, ideally it will be good to track if delta neutral is still delta neutral at the end of the day. But this also leads to frequent readjustments, which I’m not too fond of.
2) Not really, these are ok not to check daily.
Sir,
In case of premium value, kindly let me know if I correctly understood what you described in the chapters for the expected outcome of the premium value based on volatility:
(i) Just before 4-5 days of a corporate result etc.—– Volatility increases and premium increases
(ii) After the Corporate result as per general expectation.—— Volatility decreases and premium decreases
(iii) In case the Corporate result doesn’t meet general expectation—Volatility increases much more than point no. (i) i.e, before 4-5 days of a corporate result etc. and premium also increases much more than point No. (i) i.e, before 4-5 days of a corporate result etc
Thats correct. Generally speaking, volatility increases as we approach corporate results or any other event and it cools off as the event unfolds.
Sir,
Is the below correct?
In case the Corporate result doesn’t meet general mass expectation—Volatility increases much more than 4-5 days before corporate result etc. and premium also increases much more than 4-5 days before a corporate result etc
Yes, thats right Anirban. Anything unexpected in the market usually tends to increases the volatility in the market.
Sir,
The delta neutral strategies are good undoubtedly. Meanwhile, adjustments will be quite painful here each time. So, what would be your best suggestion- Should we go for delta neutral strategies without adjustments at the end of every day/ Is there any particular difference in delta only when we should go for adjustment?
Also, if the delta requires to be made neutral and some +ve delta needs to push, won’t be it good to sell put options and receive premium. Similarly, during -ve push of delta to make neutral, won’t be it good to sell call options and receive premium?
Your suggestion is sought here.
Buying CE or PE to adjust deltas will only increase the cost of the strategy, but yes, these are techniques of adjusting the position to bring it back to delta neutrality.
Sir,
I am trying to say that it is not buying but rather selling CE/PE to adjust delta.
If the delta requires to be made neutral and some +ve delta needs to push, won’t be it good to sell put options and receive premium. Similarly, during -ve push of delta to make neutral, won’t be it good to sell call options and receive premium?
Yes, you can adjust delta to bring it back to the neutral position by either selling an option or by buying an option. It’s just that the selling option requires a lot more capital due to the margin required.
HI KARTHIK
COULDN’T GET THE ANSWERS YOU ASKED IN MODULE 6 – OPTION STRATEGIES
CHAPTER 11, THE SHORT STRADDLE
“”Now here is something for you to think about – When you initiate a straddle you are obviously delta neutral. But as the markets move, will your position still remain delta neutral? If yes, why do you think so? If no, then is there a way to keep the position delta neutral?
If you can build your thoughts around these points, then I can guarantee you that your options knowledge is far greater than 90% of the market participants. To answer these simple questions, you will need to step a little deeper and get into 2nd level of thinking””
WHAT IS YOUR ANSWERS OF THE ABOVE QUESTIONS
PLEASE REPLY
REGARDS
AMARJEET CHHABRA
DSA326
Amarjeet, that is because as the markets move, so does the delta of the options and hence the positions don’t remain delta neutral.
Hi Karthik,
If we do not hedge the straddle to keep it “delta neutral” until expiry, what is the expected outcome at expiry? Will it not follow the straddle’s payoff chart?
It will follow the straddle’s payoff upon expiry.
Sir,
Please share your expert suggestion regarding these below queries.
Yesterday (27/06/2023) I initiated a virtual trade of iron fly set up in Banknifty, short 43700PE at 147.25 and 43700CE at 170.05 and then buy 43200PE at 26.65 and 44200CE at 20.10… Post 1.30pm the banknifty started upward movement and the PE sell position was giving profit and CE sell was giving loss… The CE sell option was shifting to deep ITM where delta was around 0.9 while the delta of PE sell option was -0.06 … Hence the loss from CE sell (by EOD above 7000/- )was far more than the profit from PE sell (by EOD around 3000/-) … In this scenario what should be my stand ?
Should I square off the whole trade while at breakeven or square off only the CE sell leg or shift for any other adjustments ? If I opt for any adjustments then what will be the changes ?
If I plan to square off the PE 43700 leg (Which was giving profit) and sell another PE at 43900 while both the CE and PE buy leg intact, what will I do with the CE sell leg ( which was running under huge loss) ? Is it even a right approach to shift the PE sell leg ?
Anindita, delta cannot be -ve. So PE delta will be 0, not -0.9. You should not look at individual positions when executing a multileg position, you need to look at the overall profitability.
If the position is making a loss as a whole, then maybe some intervention is required, else you don’t need to worry.
Sir,
Is my understanding correct about using the negative sign in PE delta ?
The negative sign used in the PE delta to denote the fact that when the underlying price move upwards and increase in value, the value of PE premium decreases. Therefore, in option chain PE delta denotes with negative sign and CE delta with positive sign.
About that virtual trade, at EOD the 4 legged trade was showing around 2500 Rs loss overall. Hence what intervention can be done ?
Yes, using -ve sign to indicate the direction is ok.
As far as the intervention is concerned, yes, you can tweek individual positions but that also means you will incur costs. Sometimes the costs are prohibitive to make these changes.
Do you use spot or underlying future price when entering as well as adjustments becoz in case of say next month expiry the difference in future and spot price can be quite a lot..Just a query as I did not see it mentioned anywhere
I’d prefer to use spot prices 🙂
What will be the settlement days in short straddle…?
Sorry, settlement days as in? Can you elaborate on you query?
Sir, if I use this strategy hedging with future, supposed I deployed short straddle right before market close at around 3;20 and exit at the next day opening, either way it gaps , profit will be booked right. As long as it sways between the breakevens.
/\
/ \
/ \
break even -> ————————-
/ \
Yes, as long as the premiums behave the way you it to behave 🙂
Last question sir,
[1] In short straddle big break evens are better because of theta decay, and in long straddle the sooner to get out of break evens the better it is right sir?
[2] And if big break evens are better , why people avoid short strangle as the break evens are much bigger in ITM short,but still use short straddle with small break evens?
Thank you in advance.
1) Absolutely
2) Big breakevens (actaully cut off points) are better only under low volatility situation. So unless you have a perspective on volatility, you should not be deploying this.
How to deploy this in streaks? For BNF
Please do talk to them Arun, they will be happy to help.
Hello karthik. Thank you for the wonderful explanation. I am looking forward to the chapter in delta hedging using futures. Hope to see it soon. Thank you.
Thanks, Kalyan. Happy learning 🙂