# Margins- 2 Exit orders for 1 position

February 26, 2013
Funds and Margins

Calculating Margin for Exit orders

A lot of us when in a trade would probably do one of the 2 things below.

For example: I will consider that the margin for Nifty futures is Rs. 28000 and my account balance is Rs. 30000. I have bought 1 lot of Nifty futures at 5900.

1. I place a stop loss order at 5850 and place a profit target order to sell at 6100.

OR

2. I place 1 profit target order to sell at 6050 and 1 fresh short order at 6050 as I believe the price will come down once it touches this price.

The confusion for the above 2 cases usually is: “Can it be done without any extra margin being blocked?” I will explain how it works with the above example in mind.

Do remember that in your Rs. 30,000 capital about 28,000 is blocked because you have bought Nifty futures. Only Rs. 2000 is remaining for a fresh position.

Firstly, in both the cases above, when you are holding a Nifty future, the first exit order that you place doesn’t require any margin because exchanges recognize that you are trying to exit a position that you have and there is no margin requirement for such an order.

When you place the second exit order, there is a notion among traders that for this order you will require complete margin in the example above, i.e. another 28,000 apart from the original 28,000 blocked for the position you hold.

This is a notion, not True!!!

When you place the second exit order in both the scenarios above, as long as your margin is more than Rs. 28,000, you will be able to place an order. But remember that if your balance is exactly Rs. 28000 or lower, you will not be able to place the second exit order, it would display an error saying you’re short of margin.

Hence in the example above, you have Rs. 30,000 in your account out of which Rs. 28,000 is blocked for the Nifty future you have bought and even though there is only Rs. 2000 extra in your account you will be able to place the second exit order for both scenarios mentioned above.

### Why don’t you need the extra 28,000 for taking the second exit order?

The exchange recognizes that your second exit order will be executed only after the first one is executed. If the first exit order is executed, that means that the margin which is getting blocked for your present position gets released which is sufficient for your second exit order.

This logic will work for equity, equity futures, commodity futures and currency futures. This would not work when trading options. The reason it will not work when trading options is because unlike in equity trading and futures trading, the margin required for buying and writing (selling) options varies. If you have Rs 5000 in your account and you bought 1 lot of Nifty calls at Rs 100 (Rs100 x 50= Rs 5000), you can place the first exit order, but for placing the second exit order it will ask you for the option writing (selling) margin.

Hopefully the above information clarifies. Do ask a question if you need further explanation.

Nithin

1. Shoaib says:

This clarifies a lot… Thank u Nithin…

2. P.L.Rao says:

Very usefull information.
Thanks a lot nithin.

3. bijender_1969 says:

very little understandble,but very useful .how it can be done th.ZT

• Nithin Kamath says:

Bijender, The basic idea is to let you know that if you are holding a position you can place both target order and Stop loss order without the need of extra margin…

So assume you have 10k in your account and you about 1lk worth of Reliance@1000 using product type MIS, You can place a limit selling order at 1010 and stop loss order at 990 without any extra margin..

A lot of people think that for the 2nd exit order, you need extra margin and this blog explains that it is not except for options..

• Lakshmi Priya says:

Hello Mr. Nithin Kamath
This is very fantastic future in Zerodha, Thanks for the detailed explanation.
And I have one request that is while I placing the order with MIS I have to refer the Margin calculator in the website for calculate the margin qty. Is it possible to incorporate this option with the Kite app? So we can save the time as well as can earn more profit. Because normally while using mobile app to trading, we must refer the web site for the Margin calculator, due to this some time has been delayed to place the order in the mean time the price has been varied much. Kindly I request to you please adopt this futures in kite app. I hope I will get positive replay from you.

Regards,
Lakshmi Priya

• Matti says:

Hmmm… This is on our list of things to do.

• Ravi Sharma says:

Hi Sir, Can you also please allow this feature for Bank Nifty Option trading as well. I want to put the Stop loss limit order and a book profit order together without needing any extra margin. But in options, it is asking for extra margin for placing the 2nd order. If this feature is there, it will be very helpful for retail traders who are trading with just 10K or 20K capital. Any idea on either this or an alternative?

4. kinjhoh says:

very useful information.

5. kinjhoh says:

1. If i have one lot Nifty Long at 6000, require margin is Rs.30,000/-. So cash margin is Rs.31,000/- then can i place stop loss at 5950 and target at 6050? If yes, please explain how??

2. In blog you mentioned that if Cash margin is Rs.32,000/- and overnight margin is Rs.30,000/- and due to the extra margin of Rs.2000/- we can place both the order’s(Stoploss and Target)? Can you explain what exactly does it mean?

• Nithin Kamath says:

Yes Kinjhoh,

If you have 31000 and margin required for nifty is 30,000, you can place both selling and SL order. To place this first choose Sell and place an order with limit price. Choose selling SL and place your trigger and place the order. Make sure once one of these 2 is executed, you manually cancel the other..

• Ravi Sharma says:

Hi Sir,
I don’t see it practically happening in my account. I had 15K in my account, I bought a Bank Nifty option at 10K and placed the SL order. But when I tried placing the Target order, it was asking me for another 1L+ for placing the order. Am I doing something wrong?

• Sagar says:

Same here. Please explain. And could it be possible to place second exit just like futures/equity (no extra margin for 2nd exit order)

6. ctl says:

Hi..
If I put buy order(nifty futures) at, say,5900 and want to put stop at 5850 and book profit at 5930(ALL MIS)..what option do I select for Stoploss/Sell i.e. profit booking..

Kindly guide so that I can start out.
P.S. Im a delivery player,want to start out with MIS.

• Nithin Kamath says:

Ctl, You can place a stop or book profit order only once your primary order to buy nifty at 5900 is executed. So here is the sequence.

1. You place MIS buying order to buy nifty at 5900. Once this is executed.

2. You choose sell and choose SL-M and put a trigger price as 5850 to place the SL order

3. You choose limit sell order at put limit price as 5930, your profit booking order.

Hope this clarifies..

• Rahul says:

Nithin, As I understand from your Description , is it Correct that there will be in Total 3 Orders- i.e. 2 Different Exit Orders ( 1 Profit Target order & 1 Stop Loss Order ), & 1 Buy order ?

Also, is this Order a kind of Bracket Order ?

• Matti says:

There are 2 different exit orders, yes. The example in this post isn’t a bracket order, but just 3 regular orders placed individually. In case of a bracket order, you place the entry order and specify the stoploss and target values. When the extry order is executed, the target and stoploss orders are placed by the system. When either the stoploss or the target of a bracket order is executed, the other is cancelled automatically.

• ctl says:

Hi..
However, SL-M option doesnt show on my system.It only shows SL.
What I gotta do?

• Nithin Kamath says:

Send an email to [email protected] with your client id, we will have it enabled immediately

7. rajesh.nyk29 says:

Hi. Greetings Mr. Nithin.
I am about to become a new client at Zerodha. I trade only in stock futures on weekly basis and i had query relating to it.
If suppose i buy a stock future say Jindal Steel & power at 360. My target for a two days or may be a week would be 370. And stop at 355.! Can it be possible to place SL as well as target order for the stock at the above said prices? This is useful to me because i have multiple Stock future contracts and sometimes i miss the target because i am doing something else or seeing some other charts. I trade at SBI cap securities (One of the worst platforms) and they have no option has such. So many a times i have missed my target and exit at breakeven.
So in simple, is it possible when i buy a contract (Delivery) and Update both Sl & Target so that i can concentrate on something else than just keeping looking at screen to wait for the target?
Thanks & regards
Rajesh

• Nithin Kamath says:

Absolutely Rajesh you can,

This blog is about the same.. Rs 30240 is the margin required for 1 lot SBI future , You can place SL and target even if you have 1 Rs over 30240.

But do note that , if SL gets hit, you will have to manually cancel the target or if target gets hit, you will have to manually cancel SL…

Cheers..

8. Sitaram says:

Hi,
Any calculator available same like brokerage calculator to calculate required margin for sale any option on any Strike Price of Options.

• Nithin Kamath says:

We actually have a brilliant tool for this SPAN Calculator , this not only tells you margin for writing options, but you can simulate multiple positions at one time and see what is the margin benefit you get.

Check the blog. Cheers

Ex – I have 3000 and bought 1 lot of Nifty 6000 call option at 40. Margin used – 50×40 = 2000. After some time imagine this is trading at 45. now I have belwo questions for you

1. Can I place a SL-M order with triger price of 43? or a SL with a triger price of 43 with a limit 42.95. Plz note – I initially bought at 40, People say that while placing SL sell order the triger price has to be always less that the initial buying price(40rs) Please tell me if I can place a stop loss order with the triger price more than 40rs.

2. After placing a Stop loss order if I have to place a target sell order at 50rs (this will be the second exit order) then what will be the margin that I require?

• Nithin Kamath says:

Your’s is a common query, When the option is trading at 45,

1. yes you can place SL-M order with trigger at 43.
Yes you can also place a normal SL order with a trigger of 43 and limit 42.95. The only risk you carry of having a limit price is that if the market goes fast against you, it is possible that the limit of 42.95 becomes a pending sell order. Otherwise no issues as such.
People who say that you have to place trigger below the buying price are wrong, you just have to place it below the market price currently(i.e 45 in your case). If you place it above 45, it will get triggered immediately and your order becomes like a normal selling limit/market order.

2. When you have already placed the stop loss order and now trying to place another exit order at 50, only in case of options do you need extra margin. The reason for this is because margin required for buying/selling options are different unlike equity or futures. In your case, you will need the margin required to short an option to place a second exit order.

Cheers.

• Darshan Ravanang says:

In this same case what will happen if we do the other way round. we set a sell order normal target order at 50 and then place a SL-M at 43. Will this work??

10. sarvesh says:

dear sir <br &nbsp; i am using zerodha trader software to trade with u on my pc .the&nbsp; probem is that my brother has an a/c with other broker using now software.both zerodha and the other broker who provides now use nest plus starter pack.but when i log in now.the zerodha trader exit from nest that anothe portal may be using same nest id and stops responding .i use two different nest ids .but zerodha and now both nest pus is auto login mode .kindy lresove my issue

• Hanan says:

Sarvesh, having multiple accounts with different brokers and using the same software for trading will lead to complications because Nest Plus works with only one account. We’ll have to make separate partitions in your computer like C and D drives and install these software differently. It will require an expert to do this… so call our office for support. Ask for Hari. 🙂

11. Sachi says:

For example, I have Rs. 5000 in my account and I buy one lot of NIFTY CE @ 100, what should I do if I want this to be sold if the value becomes either 110 or 95 using ZT? Do I need extra margin?

• xuv-500 says:

hi Zerodha,
IMO Sachi wants to place both orders viz 95 and 110 simultaneously.
How can u say that ‘No additioanl margin will be required’ ??? It’s Options.
Is that mistake in understanding ? pls clarify

• Nithin Kamath says:

Thanks for pointing it out XUV

@sachi, since this is options, you cannot place more than 1 exit order at a time, if you do the second order will need margin which is required to short that particular option..

12. Shivendra says:

Hi,

Are there any exclusive services for HNIs like other top brokers?

Regards

• Nithin Kamath says:

Shiv,

We run the same deal for all our clients, so don’t differentiate. We do offer additional tools for higher volume trader like i3 which can be used for reducing the impact cost while placing big orders. Let me know what services you are looking for..

Cheers,

13. KumarVinny says:

Sir plz tell me how can I convert MIS order in commodity to positional in ZERODHA TRADER.

• Nithin Kamath says:

Kumar check this Blog and see the scenario 1.

Cheers,

14. dineshAI says:

Is there any fixed formula for calculating margins. I trade in NIFTY Futures. Today i tried to put 5 lots buy and 5 lots sell in after market orders. I had 2.3 L in my account still it didnt allow me to put both orders. Can you explain?

Thanks and Regards,
Dinesh Kumar Sen

• Nithin Kamath says:

Did you put the 5 lots buy and 5 lots sell for existing 5 lots that you hold or you didn’t have any existing nifty position?

If you didn’t have any existing nifty position, these orders are treated separately so 10 lots and if you are trading on Zerodha trader the margin required is around 25k, so 2.5lks is what you need.

15. dinsjoy says:

thank u sir

16. Dharam says:

Nithin,

I have bought 100 shares of X company at 1000 rs and i want to place a SL order for 200 Shares considering to reverse my trade on hitting SL. How much money should i have in my account. Assume leverage for the stock is 8 times.

• Nithin Kamath says:

Dharam,

If for the 100 shares you are putting 1 exit and 1 SL, you wouldn’t need any extra margin.

Since you are putting 2 SL, the second SL will be considered as a fresh order and margin will be required for that. 100 x 1000 = 1lk, 8 times leverage 1lk/8 = Rs 12500.

Cheers,

17. v muthuraman says:

for eg
1) i have a margin of rs 5000 now are you allow to buy 100qty nifty@5000 & 100qty 5000 pe@90
2) i have a margin of rs 40000 now are you allow to buy 50qty nifty@5000 & 50qty 5000 pe@90 and carry over the position till expiry? are you calc option profit for margin?

• Didn’t get your question correctly.

What the above blog says is that if you are holding 1 position say buy Nifty future, you can place 2 exit orders, one for selling and another for stop loss without any extra margin.
I am a little confused about the question you have asked, can you send an email to [email protected] with your contacts, someone will call you back and explain. Also check out the blog on our SPAN calculator, should help you in all margin queries.

18. anand bansal says:

suppose i am selling 1 lot of nifty 6300 call and again selling 1 lot of nifty 6300 put january contract so please inform the margin required for the above two lots

19. Shaan says:

How can set the sound alarms when the orders get executed in Zerodha?

Also do let me know if there is a provision to set the sound alarms if the security reaches a particular price?

20. crs says:

sir,
I am new to zerodha.Trading on Equity.If i place a cover sell order with 19x margin exposure and squared off. can i place another sell or buy co with same margin exposure again?

and may I repeat this with each square off?

Thanking you,
crs

• Yes you can, as soon as you square off your existing position, the margin which is blocked gets unlblocked, and you can use the same for trading more.

21. Jagmohan Singh says:

if i have bought nifty fut at 6085 then after it my adviser gives an order ‘place an order to exit the long position in nifty futr and take short position below 6082’ what does it mean ?

• He is most likely asking you to sell the existing nifty futures at market price, and press a SL-limit selling order at 6082, so you can take a fresh short as soon as the price comes below 6082.

22. Arvind says:

HI Nitin
Exactly I cameover this situation while I get benefited by this option.
I want to know wheather by just pressing twice one can place such order or not.

23. dins says:

in that example you told that if the margin required for the first position is 28000, we have to keep 2000 extra(ie: 30000) in our account to take the two exit positions. In the case of different stocks exactly how much amount extra we have to keep in our account to take the two exit positions?

• Dins, the idea is to have some amount higher than the margin blocked for the original position.

24. Rahul S says:

Isn’t this topic the same concept as a bracket order except that the second order doesn’t get cancelled? Also, is bracket order getting released on web platform?

• Bracket orders will take a bit more before it is out on the web.

25. Kavitha says:

Hi Mr Nitin,

sorry this is not related to the blog trail.ur new q.zerodha back office is not getting updated for example now at 00.05 am on 01/10/14 still my ledger and all the other details are shown for 29/9/14. even i put a payout order that too didnt execute. even though i put payout much below the amoutn what i have.

I spoke to Customer care they said it will be done. but i am facing these kind of issues very often. pls revert on this.

Secondly not able to do autopayout the ledger balance, this feature is quite common on other borkerages.

we like trading on zerodha. if these things get sort would be much better..

thanks

• We had a small issue with our trade process yesterday, but otherwise you should be able to place withdrawal requests by 7.30 Pm.
What do you mean by autopayout?

• Kavitha says:

thanks for ur prompt reply, in many case due to delay on update of backoffice, we never know the actual account balance. if u have an option of paying out ledger balance on a daily basis, what ever the balance it will automatically payout that amount. This is just a suggestion which i found in Geojit. i am not aware of practical hurdles on implementing this thing. but if it happens it will be useful to many traders.

Ur 60 day challenge scheme is really a motivation. till now i couldn’t succeed on this but have the confidence to win.

thanks

• Daily withdrawal of the entire amount can cause a lot of operational issues. Most people want the funds to be in the trading account itself for the next trade.

26. vijay says:

Nitin kamath,

Lets assume MIS margin for one lot of crudeoil is INR 30000 and I have 31000 in my account.
If I buy 3 lots crude and place stop loss and target order, then I know that both will be placed without any requirement f additional margin.

But suppose I want to go short if stop loss is triggered for an additional 3 lots then will it accept my order?
so my order will e as follows.
Open position: 3 lots buy crude @ 5250
Target Order: 3 lots sell crude @ 5300
Stop Loss Order: 6 lots sell crude @ 5200

Is this possible?

• No Vijay, for the 3 additional lots as Stop sell, it will be considered as a new order and hence margin requirement will be extra for that.

27. Somenath says:

I request for not publishing my last post. Firstly, my post was placed at a wrong place. Publishing that post may distract the focus of this thread. And next, I got it in a wrong way and thereby causing mistake in placing order. I was using price figures instead of differences. Today someone from support called up and explained it. Then I reread the related ZConnect topic. Though I read that earlier, I missed out that portion. Tried to place a BO and that worked. Zerodha Support is certainly a great strength of Zerodha. My sincere thanks to Team Zerodha. So far my experience of exploring Zerodha and its services is nice.

28. Nurith says:

Hi Nithin
Where can i get info about margin call, do you have anything on that in your blog, If not please can u blog some info about margin call.

Regards

• Margin call is when your margin comes below the required SPAN margin by the exchanges. At that time, you either have to square of your position or transfer more money into your trading account.

29. VP says:

Hi,

Can you explain how the margin works in case of SAR type of trades.

E.g. If I am holding one lot long, and place a stop loss for 2 lots (Stop and Reverse). How much margin will be blocked for this?

Thanks,
VP

• For the first stop, there is no extra margin required. But the second one is considered as a fresh order, and hence entire margin for that lot is required.

• tarak says:

Is SAR not same as case 2 in the above article?

2. I place 1 profit target order to sell at 6050 and 1 fresh short order at 6050 as I believe the price will come down once it touches this price.

If yes, then margin money should not be 2x. please clarify.

• Until you exit the first position, the system will not have a way to know that you are doing a SAR. So until you exit it completely, it will be 2x.

30. RT says:

I have Rs.15,000 as trading capital. I use up the entire amount to buy, lets say, 400 shares – using leverage via MIS or CO. The stock goes up in value by 1% sometime during the day. Now, I want to exit and simultaneously open a short position of the same size because I expect the value to now fall. Can I place a Sell order for 800 shares? Note that I do NOT have any margin left. I do not know if the system is “intelligent” enough to understand that selling the first 400 (out of the 800 shares sell order) will automatically generate the margin for shorting the next 400.

• RT, no the system is not intelligent enough to understand that. You will be required to have more margin to place the reverse sell order.

31. RT says:

@ Nithin: Thank you. Did I just give you a Product idea for future development, or does this capability not make much sense? It does make sense to me, but then I’m very new to trading, so I could be off. The main benefit as I see it, is the almost zero gap between the exit and entry of the first and second trades respectively, allowing for more aggressive trading for those who like it that way. Higher volume is a plus for you as well.

• This has been on our list for a while, but quite tricky to implement.

32. Sathish001 says:

Small clarification, while placing 2 Exit orders for 1 position, can we place a stop loss order at Market price and place a profit target order also at market price using trigger price. I see in some places you have mentioned market price for stop loss order & limit price for profit target order. Is there additional margin requirement for placing market price order for both exit orders. I would like to use market price to make sure the trades will be executed for sure while hitting the trigger prices.
Eg: I buy 100 qty ABC stock at 100 RS. Place a stop loss order for 100 qty at 98 RS using market price & place a profit target order at trigger price of 104 RS using market price. Does it require extra margin for the second exit order(Profit Target Order)??

• Hanan says:

When you place a Bracket Order, you are setting up a condition for exiting your position after hitting a “trigger.” Your trigger can either be your Stop Loss or your Target, and once your Target or SL is hit the other open order gets cancelled instantly. The moment your trigger price is breached, your order gets executed no matter if it’s SL or Target. The reason all Target orders are Limit is because we can’t have two SL orders. If you buy something at 100 and your Target 110, how can you place this as a market order? If you place a market order, it has to get exited immediately. For this reason, your Target order is Limit and SL is Market (after hitting trigger price).

You don’t need any additional margins to place Target and SL orders. They work with the base margin used for entering your position.

33. tarak says:

For SAR trading (1lot), what is the minimum amount required (leaving the cash required for -ve MTM) ?

thanks
Tarak

• There is no benefit you get as such. You are anyways exiting the first and taking the second. If you place a limit reverse order, for the quantity you hold, you need no margin, but for anything extra whatever is the margin required for fresh position is required.

34. Ajesh says:

Hi sir,
Suppose I have 1 lot of any futures. I want to know
1) As you explained we can place both target order and stop loss order simultaneously without any extra margin. Is there any preference in placing the above two orders or we can place in any sequence.
2) Suppose one order gets executed, should we manually cancel/exit the other order. Suppose I forget to cancel/exit the other order (bcos I wont be sitting in front of screen all the time ) then what will happen.

• 1. any sequence
2. Yes, you should cancel the second manually. If you don’t and the price reaches that point, it will get executed again.

You can try bracket orders if you trade only intraday, currently not available in Kite. But should be soon.

35. Ajesh says:

Thanks

36. Pallavi says:

The above example is clear to me. In options we cannot place 2 exit orders. In this case how can i exit my option position.

Suppose i am long in call at 85. The call is now trading at 100. I already have a SL in system at 80. I am in profit so I want to exit. My questions are:
– Should i simply modify the SL order to market and exit.
– In case of stock options I cannot place a market order. How do i exit here in both scenarios…at market price and at a limit price.

37. Khro says:

Hi

Ex. I bought Nifty Future at 8600 at market rate with stop loss (CO) at 8550 . Suppose it hit stoploss and from this point i want the system (Kite app) automatically to short say at 8545 hoping the market to falls further. Pls explain the process of placing this order.

Thanks

38. Varun says:

Hi,
If I am only an options buyer and never indulge in options writing then will I be able to take advantage. Lets say after deciding to exit a long call option I develop a bearish view on NIFTY and decide to buy put options at the exact time when I decide to cover my long calls will I be able to do so – I mean in terms of allowing me to ‘place an order’ to buy a put exactly at the same time of squaring off my long calls with insufficient capital for buying the puts (the strike price would differ obviously). Timing is the key issue here if I am using an algorithm that is constantly at work with reverse trades.

• Varun, you will have to first exit your position before being able to place another order on puts.

39. arun says:

I am new to zerodha and option trading. After reading the entire post and comments, i have few questions. Suppose I bought one lot of Nifty call option @9100.
Once this is bought , now for squaring off this position, can i place both stop loss order @ 9050 and profit order @ 9150 without requiring any additional margin .
Please let me know what type of different orders I have to enter or can i enter only one order for both scenario.
Please note I am using Kite platform.

40. arun says:

Also please let me know if I am able to place both orders simulataneously without any extra margin then if one of the orders (SL or profit) get executed, then do I need to manually cancel the other order or the system will automatically cancel the other one. Please note that it will be difficult for me to know when the order will get executed and I cannot be checking all the time. Do you have any suggestion.

• Firstly not possible to place both without extra margin. If you want one to cancel another, suggest you to try out bracket orders (works only for intraday)

41. Mahesh Samala says:

Dear Team

Today I transferred Rs 9500 whereas free cash shown as 19000 Rs. So I have following question.

1. Why it shown double.
2. Can it be used for investing.
3. If it’s used within how much time it should be repaid
Regds

• Venu says:

1. I guess you’re seeing the funds on the terminal. Post market closing, we run day end processes during which time the terminal may not show you the right balance.
2. Your actual balance of Rs.9500 can be used.
3. No question of repaying, you’re allowed to use Rs.9500 only.

42. Bhargav Mehta says:

Hi .i am using zerodha mobile app . from the above post what i understood is –
for option – lets say i bought tatasteel ce at 15 rs .now for stop loss i have to go to position and put sell the order with sl-m at 11 ..1)if the price go to 11 from 15 then stop loss will be trigger .
2) If the price goes on 17 then i will modify my sell order and exit at 17 ..am i right ??

For future – i will place 2 sell order ..1 for stop loss (from position)
2 nd for target price ( again from position or fresh sell ) .. ??

• Venu says:

For option:
1) Yes, when the price goes to 11, a sell market order gets triggered.
2) Yes, change the order type from SL-M to Limit/Market.

For Future:
You can place the order in any way.

43. Bhargav Mehta says:

Hii ..why all options are coming as 17 april in zerodha ?? I am using mobile app ..option should be the last thursday of the month ..

• Venu says:

Can you upload a screenshot so we could check?

44. Bhargav Mehta says:

Here there is no option to attach the screenshot ..if you check on mobile app zerodha – option april month option are coming as 17apr pe/ce ..this should be the last thursday of april month ..

45. Ashvin Lakshmikantha says:

Hi Nithin,

I do not understand the logic of asking for margins in the case of options. Say I buy, a call of nifty at 5900 and sell a call of nifty at 6000, I should not need any extra margin money for the sell call, because it is covered with the buy call. Can you please explain why would I require additional margin in this case?

Thanks,
Ashvin

46. Harshal says:

Dear Sir,

Thanks for such a wonderful articles, videos and awesome trading platform.

My question to you is if I write (sell) options first, can I place 2 exit orders (target and stop-loss) without additional funds?

• Yes, you can.

• Harshal says:

Thank you sir.
Still 1 more confusion.

Suppose, I am having 75,000 balance in my account. I buy 1 lot of Nifty futures, which will cost me around 60,000.
Now I am having only 15000 remaining in my account.

So, now can I place 2 exit orders for sell? (limit and stop-loss both).

• Yes you can do for futures. Not possible for buy option positions.

• Harshal says:

ok, thank you sir.

47. vijay says:

Nitin

Option sell orders block a lot of margin (even though premium required is small), which negates the merit of that trade in terms of time value of money…is there a better way like trailing extra margin requirement as the position gets more in the money (working against the seller)?

• Vijay, this is determined by the exchanges. Nothing in the hands of the broker.

• vijay says:

Thanks Nitin

Do you guys (Zerodha) have provision of executing options strategies such as credit spreads, iron condors as a single trade?….I am asking both, for ease of execution and for ensuring that the trade gets completed in entirety and not partially (like one end of the spread executed but not the other)

• Currently no, but we are working on something interesting.

• Vijay says:

Nitin,

Can you please have someone reach out to me whenever you launch something on the above lines? Also, I would like to open an account.

• Vijay, to open account: https://zerodha.com/open-account

• Vijay says:

last question in this thread…the risk adjusted ROC of writing an option (considering capital blocked for margin) is so unattractive – so why do people/institutions write options?…is there something I am missing?

• Odds of winning are much higher writing options vs buying. Yeah, the rewards are lesser too.

• Vijay says:

there is an issue with the account opening link…says this id has an account…I dont !

48. Rushabh says:

This is brilliant, I don’t think all brokers allow Target and SL orders simultaneously without additional margin.

49. Prasanth Manduri says:

Want to know Amy difference between futures and MIS if we are closing the future on the same day. Which is advantage??
And economical.
Thanks

• Zerodha Social says:

Prashanth, futures is an instrument and MIS is a product type. So if you are using an MIS order, your position will be squared off at the end of the day. If you wish to hold it overnight then you need to use NRML orders. To learn more about order types check out the Kite User Manual. To learn more about F&O then you can check out Varsity.

50. Brojendra Sharma says:

Nitin Sir,

I would like to know is there any trigger system market order for profit booking in exit ?

• Matti says:

Hey Brojendra, for profit booking, simply place a Limit exit order.

51. Prem says:

Hi , I would like to know about with some amount can I place both buy and sell order. Example: I need to SELL a share X ,if price is at 99 , in the same way I need to buy if it goes to 101. Suppose if I have 1000k, can I place both buy and sell in single order. Ir I need 2k to place both. If I can do it in single order which order type I need to use. And what values I need to enter also where to enter. Obviously one order got triggered I will cancel other order. Please help me for this

• Zerodha Social says:

Prem, you can use a bracket order if the trade you are taking is an intraday trade. Check out the video here.

52. Omhan says:

please explain to me the margin requirement for the following orders?
I want to buy 2 lots of future contract X, place SL orders for both at same price and place 2 different target price for both lots.
I also want to trail both lots differently as price moves in my favour.
(Ex: Buy 2 lots of future contract at 400 via MIS order.
CMP 399
Target 1 405 SL 1 395
Target 2 410 SL 2 395
If T1 is achieved I will cancel the SL1 for that and would trail the SL2.
Order placing:
Place SL-M buy order for 2 lots price = 400.

After order is executed place SL-M sell order for 2 lots price = 395.

Then, place one limit sell order for 1 lot at 405, and place another limit sell order for 1 lot at 410.

If target 1 is achieved modify SL-M sell order from 2 lots to 1 lot.

If target 2 is achieved cancel the SL-M sell order for the 1 lot.)
I hope I am doing it right

53. Nayan says:

trying to code in pi. unable to program stop loss and exit long script. Also is it mandatory to provide sell script even if i wish to enter only long. The trade script pdf wasn’t helpful. kindly guide. thank you

54. Rajesh says:

Hi, kamath

After executing the buy order under MIS, can i place only SL order for that executed order without placing tgt order (only 2nd Exit order). Will that attract additional margin under MIS??. I would like to keep the open position till the end of the day if that doesnt hit SL

Regards
Rajesh

• Matti says:

If you’re placing just one exit order using MIS, no additional margins would be required.

55. Vishal says:

Hi,

I am new to the futures concept and wanted to clarify one doubt ?

Can we set stoploss and target for sell order of nifty futures.
Can stoploss / target be placed for any of the sell orders in future ??

Regards,

Vishal

• Matti says:

Yes, you can Vishal.

56. Anand says:

Consider a given scenario: current market price of stock A=100, Want to put a stop loss at 95 , book a profit when market hits 105.
Now my question is: Do I need to follow the below steps in subsequent manner?
1. First buy the stock at 100.
2. Put a stop loss at 95 by putting a sell order with SL(target 95, price say 94.5)
3. Book a profit at 105 by putting a seperate sell order with sell limit sell at 105.
i. And if this is right what happens to my stop loss order if the market value of stock crosses 105?
ii. what happens to my sell at limit order if the market value of stock jumps down to 95?
How will I act?
If you could please explain it briefly.

57. Pranav Kumar says:

Can I place Stop Loss on a open Option position which we generally put while placing buy order ?

• Matti says:

You can place a separate stoploss order for any naked position that you already have open.

58. TVR says:

Can u please explain or provide a link through which i can understand the way by which Zerodha calculates the used margin and available balance (as shown in Kite dashboard) while placing Bracket orders for equity stocks (not futures)?

One day, through out the trading session i was placing bracket orders for equity stocks and manually calculated the available balance and compared with what shown in Available balance of Equity section on dashboard of kite. But i found lot of difference.

I followed the following procedure in manually calculating the available balance:

when ever placing orders, i entered the quantity, sell price and stop loss in Bracket order margin calculator at Zerodha website, and deducted the value shown under “required margin” of the calculator, form the available funds of kite dashboard. I followed this method for all the subsequent trades.

Am I missing something!!

• Matti says:

Hey, the margin requirement is as what is shown on the calculator, but this is never 100% accurate and changes slightly based on market conditions. The margin calculator gives you an estimate of the margin required for any trades.

• TVR says:

Can u please clarify the following:

1.On what assumptions and criteria the margins are calculated in real time(ie in zerodha kite)?

2.Does the margin requirement changes on daily basis, or seldom, when the markets are volatile?

I find Zerodha notifying the clients well in advance, whenever the margin requirement changes.

I am in the process of back testing a strategy, and hence need to include margin in the code, hence i require the procedure bu which Zerodha calculates margin on daily basis

Thanks

59. Rahul says:

Hi,

Getting confused in placing orders with Stop loss and Target for intraday. Need some help here.

Lets say I want to buy 1000 qty of X stock at the current market price which is 100 with stop loss at 98 and a target price of 104. My capital will be 11K with 10x margin. Total capital with margin 1.1L.

A) As per my understanding, I need to place 3 orders for the above scenario.

1) MIS market order for buy position.
2) MIS limit order for 104 for my exit position.
3) MIS SL-M order for 98 for my exit position.

I will have to close on of my positions either exit or stop loss position manually here I guess.

If I do the above, would I be requiring additional margin requirements or not? Also, this step is a little tedious. Any other alternatives to get it done efficiently?

B) I understand that the above scenario can be executed with bracket orders where the stop loss will be market order and target will be the limit order but my entry in bracket order will be limit order not market order. To make my entry position a market order instead of a limit order. I need to place a buy price higher than the current market price. So in bracket order, if the stock is trading at 100, if I put a price of lets say 101 or 110, the trade will be executed at market price of 100. Am I correct here?

Any help in clearing my confusion will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Rahul

• Matti says:

A) You’re right about how to go about placing the orders. You’ll need no additional margin for one of the exit orders, whereas you’ll need full MIS margin for the second order.
B) Yes, BO should work as you expect if you place the entry order above market.

60. sanja says:

Hi sir,

Can i place this three MIS orders at same time with same margin.

1. Buy limit Order @ Rs.550 ( fresh position 1) – For long
2. Sell ST-L Order @ Rs.548 (stop loss for position 1)
3. Sell limit Order @ Rs.547.95 ( fresh position 2) – For short.

61. Ravindra Singh says:

Hi,

Suppose Nifty Index is trading at 12100. Can i initiate the following 2 NRML trades simultaneously:

1) Buy 1 Lot of Nifty Fut (Feb Expiry) at 12100
2) Sell 1 Lot of Nifty Fut (Feb Expiry) at 12100.

Please bear in mind that I wont be placing the stop loss in these orders. My question is this: Can both these orders exist in my demat account independent of each other, till the time I don’t exit? Kindly clarifiy.

Regards,
Ravindra

• Matti says:

You can take one position using NRML and one using MIS. The MIS position will only be open until the end of the day. You can’t take both positions using the same product type. The sell order would close the open position.

62. Kapil Khurana says:

I read the post, but still don’t understand why you can’t allow it for an open options position. In case my open position is option writing (blocking span+exposure), why can’t you allow both SL and target order which anyways won’t require big margins as the order type would be of option buying?

Conversely, if I have an open buy position in option blocking most of my margin, why can’t you allow stop loss order as well as target order under one cancels other (oco)?

• Matti says:

One order cancelling the other would be considered an algo that requires special approvals.

63. YUMNAM SWARUP SINHA says:

Is that still valid that placing a stop loss and target order simultaneously in future trading

64. Blue says:

Hi Zerodha,

For every trade we put 2 orders for stop loss and target, once any one hits, other order needs be cancelled manually, which makes us to be stuck with our devices.

I would suggest to make every order type same as BO, where you can put Stop Loss, Target together in 1 order, as you keep blocking CO/BO saying market has too much volatility, it’s pain to be available for manual intervention.

Guide me if am not aware of any feature which can address my concern

65. Anand Bhat B says:

So if one of the exit order is triggered should we cancel the second order manually??

66. Saikumar Goud says:

If I place 2 exit orders for 1 position, how would the P/L of second exit order be executed? Does the price of future at the time of executing first order be taken as buying price of second order?

67. Pranjal Ardey says:

From what I understand is that if there are 2 orders – 1 or SL and 1 for target then one is considered as Exit & Margin is required for the other.
But in my case margin is blocked even for a single SL order. I have sold Options and have placed SL orders to buy the same Option and to my surprise a lot of margin has been blocked even for the Stop Loss order. Tried to explain the person on support call but he simply says for open orders margin will be deducted. Have raised ticket for the same – #20200824611848 & #20200824449505 (created for call) but yet no resolution.
Whom can I connect to in this regards?

68. Indra says:

Hi,

For example, I have bought 1 lot of Nifty PE Option of 15200 at 200 rupees. Now, I want to put a target price of 220 and stop loss of 180 for that option lot, how can I go about fulfilling both the target and stop loss for the nifty option.

Thank you.

69. Manish Mohan says:

I am trading equity (not futures or options) on longterm CNC basis. I am trying to place SL and profit target order. After placing one order, when I place the second order, I get the following error:

Rejected
SELL 10 x SCRIPNAME is rejected.
Insufficient stock holding (10.00 qty.) or there are pending sell orders for this stock. Check the orderbook.

What should I be doing to place two orders?

70. Abhay says:

Hi.
My question is, I am having 3000 in my account and purchased buy option in BNF at market price, also added SL. When I am trying to square off my position, it doesn’t allow me and saying insufficient balance. So to square off my position, I have to cancel my SL first manually then square off my position. Why cant I square off my position first and then cancel SL after that.

Appreciate your help to understand the concept.

Sir, I would like to say that when I buy a CE or PE, I pay required margin but I only can place a STOP LOSS or Target order but not both.
It requires margin applicable to SELL the instrument i.e. 1 Lac or bit less.
What’s the real reason??

• Shubham says:

Hey Avadhesh, this has already been explained in the last part of the post.

72. Rakesh says:

HI,

What Nithin is telling In Zerodha for Option Buyer there is O% chance to make money for small retail traders in fact option buyers are facing unlimited risk and loss…

We cannot place Target and Stop loss orders at 1 stretch

if GTT is used 99% of the time that trigger price hit and limit price skips…Even if I set trigger price high and limit price set to low.

If the move goes opposite side of the trade and there is no stop loss and a drastic fall…Capital finished in 1 day

73. Toshik says:

Shame on Zerodha for Malicous activity so more trade are executed and they earn more brokerage shame on you!

I have took the entry at x amount on order 1– executed
I have put a stop-loss at order 1 at x amount.
If I exit the order 1 then stop loss won’t be exit then what is the meaning of exit??? And this was placed for order 1 only so you automatically don’t cancel the exit order…because of your filthy trick to people forget about SL and get into more trade shame on you Nithin Kamath!

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