Introducing Iceberg orders and order validity in minutes
Hindi: Iceberg ऑर्डर और मिनट्स में ऑर्डर की वैलिडिटी से परिचय
Note: Please update the Kite mobile app, if you don’t see the Iceberg order type.
Iceberg is an order type that slices orders of larger quantity (or value) into smaller orders, where each small order, or leg, is sent to the exchange only after the previous order is filled.
This helps reduce the impact cost of execution in addition to not revealing large orders in the market depth bids and offers. Icebergs are a very popular order type amongst institutional traders, and we are excited to introduce this to the retail traders in India.
Impact cost
Impact cost represents the difference in the actual traded price as compared to the price of the instrument when the order was placed. For example, if a market order to buy 1000 shares was placed when the stock was trading at ₹100, and if the actual execution price was ₹100.5, this ₹0.5 x 1000 = ₹500 would be the impact cost for the order. Similarly, if a limit order to buy 1000 shares was placed at ₹100 when the stock was trading at ₹100 and was later modified to 100.3 to get a fill, then 0.3 x 1000 = ₹300 is technically the impact cost.
As the size of the order increases, the impact cost goes up as well. Traders with large order values end up losing a lot more money to impact costs as compared to all other charges combined (STT, Brokerage, exchange transaction, etc).
How do Icebergs work?
As the name suggests, when a large order is placed, it is divided into smaller orders or legs, and only the first leg is placed on the exchange at first, revealing only the tip of the iceberg. Once this leg is executed, the next leg of the main order is placed, and so on, until the desired quantity is traded. The number of legs is decided by the customer.
Follow these steps to place an Iceberg order:
- Click on Iceberg on the order window.
- Select Intraday or Overnight.
- Enter Quantity and the Price.
- Select Market or Limit.
- Enter the Number of legs and click on Buy or Sell. The maximum number of legs per Iceberg is 10.
Example scenario
An order for Nifty CE of 3000 quantity (60 lots) can be divided into 5 orders of 600 each by selecting the number of legs. This way, every subsequent order of 600 will be executed only once the previous orders are executed.
Iceberg orders
Important
- Since each leg is a separate order, the brokerage is charged separately. That is, if the order is split into 5 legs, then the brokerage will be applicable for 5 executed orders individually. See list of all charges and taxes.
- You can use disclosed quantity feature for equity trades which will work very similar to Icebergs, and disclosed quantity feature doesn’t create multiple orders and hence won’t have any additional costs. Disclosed quantity feature isn’t available for F&O trades. See What is disclosed quantity feature and how to use it?
- If you cancel any leg of an Iceberg order that is placed on the exchange, all remaining pending legs that are yet to be placed are automatically cancelled. Similarly, if you modify the price of any leg of the Iceberg placed on the exchange, the price will get modified for all the pending legs to the new price.
- The minimum order value is ₹1,00,000 for equity and 5 lots for F&O.
Order validity in minutes
Along with DAY (valid for the whole trading day until filled) and IOC (Immediate or Cancel) orders, we are introducing a new minute validity feature. An order can be set to auto-cancel if it does not complete in a given period of time, and this period is set in minutes. Iceberg orders can be placed with validity in minutes along with regular orders.
Timed iceberg orders
Icebergs to overcome order freeze limits
Exchanges have a maximum order limit set for equity derivative contracts. For example, the maximum number of lots of Nifty that can be placed in one order is 36 lots (1800 Qty), and for Bank Nifty, it is 48 lots (1200 Qty). This is an inconvenience to traders who want to execute larger quantities, requiring them to place multiple orders. With Iceberg orders, you can now place an order to buy 10000 quantity or 200 lots of Nifty or more at the same time. This will not only mean not having to place multiple orders in case of a large order but also help reduce impact costs.
Iceberg orders are available for NSE equity, F&O, currency, and BSE equity only. Icebergs can’t be used in the case of market and SL-M orders on BSE. Iceberg orders and minute validity will not be supported in the case of pre-open & post-market sessions.
Happy Trading,
Can you guyz do this slicing depending on the quantity instead of user to be decided because sometime we need to execute orders immediately and because of this to be decided it will make difficulty in placing order. It should be system decided depending upon the maximum order in shot which exchange can accept to avoid unnecessary time wastage to decide the no of legs
incase if i try place 3600qty with 3 legs for nifty options how lot size will be divided for each legs as this cannot be divided equally for 3legs ?
thanks.
incase if i try place 3650qty with 3 legs for nifty options how lot size will be divided for each legs as this cannot be divided equally for 3legs ?
thanks
Why Zerodha doesn’t allow market orders in iceberg order type while Kotak & Fyers allow market orders in order slicing? Iceberg is useless without market order. Please allow the same.
Hi Sonu, Iceberg market orders are not allowed due to regulatory reasons. You will have to place a limit order. You can use limit order like a market order, here’s how.
If market orders in iceberg are not allowed by regulator then why other brokers(Fyers, Angel and Kotak) are allowing market order in similar ORDER SLICING FOR LARGE QUANTITY orders?
Nobody has time to place a limit order like market order. No trader wants to edit price by erasing and reentering digits. This process eats so much time, it is not beneficial for an intraday trader. It is better to avoid iceberg and Zerodha. It is also better to love to Angel or Kotak or Fyers.
Why the Iceberg option is not avaialble in Basket Order.?
No, Mangesh. The Iceberg orders are currently not available under Basket order feature.
Why can’t u provide an option to automatically split order into multiple if it’s more than freez limit so we can reduce the time to place order
Thank you for your feedback, Sivasankar. We’ll look into this 🙂
To manually exit or place stop loss or target in ice berg order , can I use ice berg order itself or should I do it for each legs ? (Click Exit – choose ice berg – enter stop loss or target or manual exit value and close the trade)
Hi Jnanesh, you can use the Iceberg order itself to do this.
Hello Zerodha Team,
Please add this “Iceberg” feature under “basket order” as well, so as to trade multiple leg in large quantity.
I can see many others have also requested this on same thread. Please consider it …
Hi Nabil, thanks for the feedback. We’ll explore the possibilities 🙂
Can we trail stop loss in iceberg order and how?
Hi Sunil, trailing stoploss feature is not available for Iceberg orders.
Hey!!! How to use Iceberg order inside the basket…… Can I use Like this
Hey Maheswaran, Iceberg order is currently not available while placing the Basket Order. If you want to place multiple orders quickly using the Basket Order, you can easily clone the order in the basket.
Are Nifty/Bank Nifty Options liquid enough to do scalping for less than 5 min. with more than 4000 Lots, ie, Can i enter or exit the bank nifty options with more than 4000 Lots , immediately, at my Price or with very little impact cost.
Hey Ashish, the Nifty and Bank Nifty options are fairly liquid. But the best gauge to check liquidity will be to check the market depth before placing orders.
Hi , Can we have Step up / Down Feature in Iceberg order , Say i place 1st Limit buy leg order at Rs. 40 & following the leg with Rs. 39.95 – 39.90 – 39.85 & so on.. this can increase the liquidity & more chance to filled up the order.
Pl Revert
Thanks for the feedback, Krunal. We’ll look into the possibilities.
Suppose I use the Iceberg orders to place 1000 X 10 orders buy order. This is now successful. Then I place 1000 X 10 SL Sell order. Lets says this is now pending. Is there any way to bulk modify the 10 orders’ SL using Iceberg order ?
Hi, can iceberg order be used to square-off the position? Or we need to manually square-off each leg?
This is nice.please increase the number of legs or quantity per leg.why because on expiry day we volatility is high we can’t excute all at a time if we have more than 100000 quantity.
Hey Gaddam, we’ll look into the possibilities of increasing the legs. However, you can use the Sticky order window feature to place multiple orders with ease. You can check out more details on this here.
This is nice feature but Zerodha should consider reducing the brokerage cost as well while using this. Else its just another feature which can be achieved by any other means.
NICE WAY TO FOOL THE NEW RETAIL TRADERS. COMPLETELY MADE FOR BIG GUYS ONLY.
When this great feature is going to be available on smallcase?
Will each leg to be considered a separate order in Iceberg? And there for, will brokerage be increased?
Hey Dipak, each leg of the Iceberg will be considered as a separate order. For example, if the order is split into 5 legs, then the brokerage will be applicable for 5 executed orders individually. You can check the list of all the charges here.
You better provide Cover orders and bracket orders for both futures and options rather than these nonsence and bullshit order types. Both CO”s and BO”s are pivotal and paramount for risk management. These bullshit orders serve no essential purpose to traders.
Is this feature available in kite connect python api ?
Entire order ( combination of all lag ) should be cou t as one order.
What you have not told the people is this: every time, the next order is placed, it would get placed at the end of the que. This would delay the execution. And, if the price reverses after executing only some of the orders, the remaining orders would not get executed.
Whilst this facility by itself is good, the notification about this facility in the orders tab is superscribing on the tabs GTT etc as a result I am not able to view the GTT orders and execute positons. Can Zerodha back end look into this urgently. This happened similarly incase of notification about LIC IPO.
Iceberg, a very nice feature and hopefully will reduce a lot of important time of a trader & possibility of mistake in case of large orders.
Good
Good initiative but i believe Zeroda will bring an video explaining step by step to enable understand better.
Thank you so much for finally bring this feature.
As of now I could only see, the maximum legs is set as 10. What I could understand is that, In one Iceberg order can be placed with Max Qty of 12,000 qty for BankNifty with 10 as Leg value.
Please let me know will there be any future possibilities to increase Leg size??
Hey Suraj, we’ll look into the possibilities of increasing the legs. However, you can use the Stick order window feature to place multiple orders with ease. You can check out more details on this here.
Invidual brokerage for each leg.
What a way to cone people to collect extra brokerage in the name of impact cost.
good
How about iceberg selling. Can we sell it at different price
Hey Vivek, you can use Iceberg orders for selling as well.
Bahut hi achcha improvement
👌👌👌👌👌
Good feature
👌👌👌👌👌
@shubham,
When this will become available in kite connect API? As the API restricts 10 orders per sec currently, sending a single large order will overcome limit essentially.
For example, I want to send order of `25000 NIFTY FUTURES, currently we are forced to divided the quantity by quantity freeze (1800) and then sending 10 such orders in a sec as we cannot send more than 10 orders to API.
Iceberg will solve this 100%.
Any extra charges for Iceberg order
Hey Utpal, there are no additional charges for using the Iceberg order feature. Since each leg is a separate order, the brokerage is charged separately. That is, if the order is split into 5 legs, then the brokerage will be applicable for 5 executed orders individually. You can check out all the charges in detail here.
Wonderful. For me this is better than basket order.
I would like to make a correction on your statement ?With Iceberg orders, you can now place an order to buy 10000 or 200 lots of Nifty or more at the same time – i think it still doesnt allow to buy 10,000 the maximum you can buy in nifty is 560 lots, 56*10 brackets maximum.
Hey Harry, it is 10000 quantities or 200 lots of Nifty F&O. We’ve corrected this, thanks for bringing this to the notice.
Happy ending
Great feature
But it would be great if this feature was also added in basket order so as to trade multiple leg in large quantity at the same time.
We’ll explore the possibilities, Harshwardhan. Thanks for the feedback.
Super powerfull Feature
Thank you so much for launching such gr8 platform
Aakhri waale separate brokerage waale point pe khel gaya
Good
Excellent Feature ! Thank you Zerodha !!
If I have accumulated say 5000 quantities across 3 bank nifty strikes.. I want to exit all position.. Can you provide similar feature in Position window where I can just selected the strikes & click exit.. instead of creating basket order or iceberg orders ?
Hey Arun, thanks for the feedback. We’ll look into the possibilities.
Can we exit all the positions in the same way.?
Does Support portal ever work? Been trying for the past few days to create a ticket related to demat, and getting network issue error. 🙁 customer support is forever on hold. :((
Hey Meenakshi, there are no issues with creating a ticket at https://support.zerodha.com/. Could you please check this from a different browser? Also, please share the specific article link you’re working on so that we can have it checked.
Not a link issue. After entering all the details and attaching files I am getting error while submitting. Tried it from multiple support links (from kite, support portal link etc). No way to contact your support team.
Hey Meenakshi, could you please confirm the file size you are trying to upload? We’ll also have someone from our team reach out and assist you.
There is typo in iceberg section title “icerberg” instead of icerberg . just an observation as a developer
Hey Swapneel, this will be corrected in the next update. Thanks.
iceberg order vs disclosed quantity which is better to reduce slippage
What’s the max quantity limit per leg in Nifty if we place Iceberg order.
Hey Ritesh, the maximum number of legs per Iceberg is 10 and the maximum quantity per leg would be the same as freeze limits i.e 1800 for Nifty.
Once brought how to exit big quantity of iceberg order in one shot.
Hey Nivi, the Iceberg order can be used for exiting your position as well. You just have to place a sell Iceberg order instead of buy and vice-versa if you have a short position.
All said and done, please check the spelling in app. In my phone it is showing as Icerberg.
Hey Mahantesh, thanks for bringing this to our attention. This will be fixed soon.
Plz make this feature available in kite app soon..waiting
Hey Gopal, Iceberg orders will be available on the app soon.
Need to. Know the brokerage… Either single or 10 each time
Hey, since each leg is a separate order, the brokerage is charged separately. That is, if the order is split into 10 legs, then the brokerage will be applicable for 10 executed orders individually. You can check out all the charges here.
How it is different from sticky window?
Thanks for this feature. I have a question.
Let say, I have 1000 shares to buy. Is it possible to buy 100 shares each minute with market order? Basically to average out the buying price over a period of time and it will have benefits of iceberg also.
Just wanted to know if that’s possible anyway (except manually)?
Can we have iceberg order option in basket order..
This can help placing large orders….
Hey, thanks for the feedback. We’ll look into the possibilities.
Please do that . Also ensure when we square off it should be automatically slice quantity automatically as per NSE RULE.
Thank
if someone wants to buy/sell more than 18000 quantity in nifty lets say 50000 quantity , then how will it be helpful ?
we can trade large quantity like institutional
When would this be made available via Zerodha API?
Why do you need this with API? We have custom built this using zerodha API and been using it for ages.
Do you mean that zerodha API already has this feature? or are you referring some custom algo for doing order split before connecting zerodha API?
Have you made the api public for everyone to use? if no, then you are jealous of this feature. and if yes, then your api is not at all popular and this zerodha bringing it, will help upper layer retailers
Entering with large quantities is solved by Iceberg. How about exiting the large order? Will that also be sliced automatically?
Hey Pranav, you can use Iceberg orders for exiting your positions as well.
now, one can slice 1000 qty with 10 slicing generating 10 times brokerage. well done zerodha.
This feature to be used only when the quantity transacted is greater than freeze quantities.
Currently if a trader wants to buy/sell nifty options above freeze limit (as defined by NSE, now at 1800 for nifty options) , he has to punch in multiple orders or clone orders. If one wants to buy/sell say 18000 quantity, using this feature would be helpful.
Dear Zerodha team why don’t you guys send an email to your clients regarding new features like these to let us know about the latest happenings in Kite ? I didn’t get any intimation from you. Got to know about this from a friend.
Arun,
This feature is currently only available on the web platform. We are waiting for it to go live on the mobile app and announce to all our clients 🙂
Faisal,
Hope to receive all the details in mail soon.
Thanks for introducing this feature. Can you also look at creating conditional orders from spot/future to options.
Interactive broker offers this feature to retail traders in India.
Abhishek,
Thanks for the feedback. We are looking into the possibility of such conditional orders.
The Iceberg does not work during basket orders…please improve that also
How is this different from using basket order for the same instrument with same quantity
Nothing much.
Basket orders requires us to add orders manually in basket for trading over freeze quantities.
Where as this does the job automatically.
thanks
Can I place any number of iceberg orders
For example
I wants to buy 100000 q
Nifty options, can I place 10 iceberg orders, each iceberg order with 10legs??
Hey, you can do this.
But in Basket order all order punched at the same time on exchange once trigger price arrived, where as in Iceberg 2nd led order punched on exchange only after 1st leg order gets filled..
in this case is it possible that my desire price can jump & if price keep moving in one direction & not return back to desire price – my 2nd leg onward orders remain unfilled ( Especially in SL orders )
In Iceberg except for the 1st order the remaining orders don’t get sent to the exchange. They remain at Zerodha. Therefore your pending orders don’t reflect in market depth.
Excellent… It is very useful. I am searching for new options from third-party providers. Its really useful for me.
brilliant start. hope zerodha outdoes itself with even complex execution algos in the near future. kudos !!
Thank you so much for bringing this request feature!
How to use the feature for api connect..
Zerodha bringing new toys to increase volatality, liquidity and encourage gambling behaviour. Now we can expect noon market to behave as volatile as opening and closing session. As usual retail people gets sucked into playing with this new toy tool thereby losing .
This is absolutely correct. Retail traders ko to 1% bhi fayda nahi hai .. baki is feature se sara ka sara nuksaan retail traders ko hi hone wala h .bade log aur bhi jyada acche se retailers ko fasa sakte h
If a toy is to play, learn playing. Trend settings is always by big shots not any one broker. Any broker has to update otherwise lose customer.
I dont see anything useful in this other than we have to pay more brokerage since each leg is considered a separate order.
Absolutely my first thought. The house always wins! But the text is so nicely curated to read as if impact cost is the only thing that it addresses.
Hadd hoti hai.. apba fayda dekho bs.. dusre log to khali baithe hai.. this is best feature for high quantity scalpers… I use it everyday..and yes I’m I’m retailer by any definition..
But this is an additional feature. One need not use if one wants to save on brokerage!
how is sell 18000 quantity is it possible in market price
Hi Anuj, Iceberg market orders are not allowed due to regulatory reasons. You will have to place a limit order.
You can use limit order like a market order, here’s how.