{"id":453285,"date":"2026-07-22T17:28:48","date_gmt":"2026-07-22T11:58:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/zerodha.com\/z-connect\/?p=453285"},"modified":"2026-07-22T17:28:48","modified_gmt":"2026-07-22T11:58:48","slug":"welcome-to-the-back-office","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/zerodha.com\/z-connect\/business-updates\/welcome-to-the-back-office","title":{"rendered":"Welcome to The Back Office"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>People know Zerodha. They know the brand, the product, the numbers. What they don&#8217;t know are the people who built it.<\/p>\n<p>A lot has already been said about how Zerodha started, why we chose a flat-fee model, and why we remained bootstrapped. Nithin has written and spoken openly about many of the questions people have through tweets, blog posts, interviews, and podcasts.<\/p>\n<p>But these answers are often spread across different places and tied to whatever was happening at the time. There is rarely enough room to connect the dots, explore the trade-offs, or understand how the people running different parts of Zerodha actually think.<\/p>\n<p>And beyond Nithin, there have been very few public conversations with the people who have shaped Zerodha over the years.<\/p>\n<p>That is what we are trying to do with The Back Office.<\/p>\n<p>It is a series of conversations with the people who built and continue to run Zerodha.<\/p>\n<p>Not just about what they built, but how they approach their work. How decisions are made when there is no obvious right answer. What goes wrong behind the scenes. Where people disagree. What changes as a company grows, and what they have deliberately tried not to change.<\/p>\n<p>We are starting with Nithin.<\/p>\n<p>We did not ask him to retell Zerodha\u2019s origin story or explain the flat-fee model again. Instead, we picked up questions he has touched on before and spent more time on what sits underneath them.<\/p>\n<p>How do you run a brokerage that earns when customers trade while also telling them that most people are better off trading less? How do you decide which growth opportunities to ignore? What risks become visible only when markets turn? How do regulation, technology, and market cycles shape decisions that may look straightforward from the outside?<\/p>\n<p>We also spoke about the parts of running Zerodha that are harder to capture in a tweet or a short interview: the doubts, disagreements, mistakes, and decisions whose consequences become clear only years later.<\/p>\n<p>Future episodes will feature others who have shaped Zerodha in very different ways: Kailash, our CTO, who leads technology across Zerodha\u2014from customer-facing products to the underlying infrastructure; Karthik, who built Varsity and leads our education initiatives; and Venu, who oversees the operations and compliance work that keeps the brokerage running every day.<\/p>\n<p>They have rarely spoken publicly about their work, even though it shapes much of what customers experience.<\/p>\n<p>The first episode of The Back Office, featuring Nithin, is now live on the Zerodha YouTube channel.<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Nithin Kamath on risk, luck, and what keeps him going | The Back Office Ep. 1\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/LugscaCXcO4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Episode transcript<\/h2>\n<p>Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> Welcome to the first episode of an unnamed show. Most people figure out a name and then do this, but we are doing it the other way around.<\/p>\n<p>The idea of this show came from the fact that for most people, Zerodha just means you, Nithin, and Nikhil, and to some extent, Kailash. But there are more people behind what Zerodha is today, and not many of them are known to the public apart from their LinkedIn profiles and occasional posts. The idea of this series is to put those people in the spotlight because a lot of them have accumulated so much context about the business.<\/p>\n<p>I keep telling the new people who join the business that these are some of the smartest people in the Indian capital markets, and for one reason or another, they don&#8217;t get to share what they want to do. So, we figured we would take all the people who made Zerodha the success it is today and shine the spotlight on them, so to speak. Because this is my tenth year, I have a lot more context.<\/p>\n<p>This is my colleague, Rohit. We figured we would put somebody new who doesn&#8217;t know a lot of the things that have happened over the last 16 years, so we&#8217;ll see how it goes. Hopefully, I don&#8217;t botch it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> The additional idea to start off with you is because people know you; you&#8217;ve done so many interviews in the past, and you keep tweeting and posting content out there. But there is also so much behind-the-scenes context that people don&#8217;t know, whether it&#8217;s about the business, the industry, or how you think about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> The human side of Zerodha.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> I want to start off this conversation just by asking you\u2014because you&#8217;ve answered hundreds of questions in the past around Zerodha, the markets, and your philosophy\u2014what are three topics or three questions that you would want people to ask, but no one has really asked you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Firstly, it feels odd to be doing this because I haven&#8217;t done an interview for at least two to two and a half years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> So far, it&#8217;s not showing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> In terms of all the questions I get asked, I think people don&#8217;t ask about the risk of running Zerodha as much. At the end of the day, we are a leverage business. Our customers trade with us, and 85% of our revenues come from leverage trades. Leverage means people trade for more than the money they actually have in their account. The risk of that is significant, and people have short memories.<\/p>\n<p>The last 15 to 16 years, from the time I started Zerodha, it has actually been quite a pleasant ride. There have not been really big incidents. 2020 was a big incident, but the markets bounced back so fast that it never really felt like you, as a broker, were in trouble. So, I think the risk of doing this business is pretty high.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> We had a small preview, though, with crude going negative.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Recently, gold and silver crashing; we lost \u20b950 crores in one day. We had lost \u20b970 crores; we recovered \u20b920 crores, so we were net down \u20b950 crores on that day. And that&#8217;s just one day, and just gold and silver. Imagine if it were to happen across the entire equity market.<\/p>\n<p>Right from the start of the business, I&#8217;ve been taking out and keeping 10% of all the profits we make as a war chest, saying that we might have to potentially give 10% of our profits back at any point in time. That 10% has added up and is significant right now, but that&#8217;s the risk.<\/p>\n<p>What else? I think it is about me personally: people assume success is easy. People look at you as successful and say, &#8220;Dude, your life must be so easy,&#8221; but it&#8217;s incredibly complex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> I&#8217;ll blame your tweets for it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> No, because it&#8217;s really tough. The problem is not just about me, but about all entrepreneurs who have seen some success, you are made out to be like this demigod. The complications that success brings are extremely hard, and there is no one talking about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> I think being in the spotlight all the time and being under the radar for whatever you say.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> That&#8217;s a given. But the thing is, for example, say someone joined the company 10 years back. He contributed nothing to this journey, but assuming he leaves right now, he assumes he has contributed so much to the success. How do you manage that? It&#8217;s a tricky thing.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, it&#8217;s really hard being in the spotlight. So many people come to me and assume that I have answers to all their problems, and definitely, I don&#8217;t. Managing the complications that success brings is something that is not spoken about much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Is there anything third? You&#8217;ve spoken about risk and success.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Not really, no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Okay, we&#8217;ll come to those aspects later in the conversation. What I wanted to speak about now is the Zerodha philosophy. When I came in last year, I only heard about the Zerodha philosophy. The word &#8220;philosophy&#8221; is sort of a clich\u00e9 because every organization says they have one. But when it comes to our philosophy, it is what has kept us really grounded. Even Kailash, our CTO, says that Zerodha&#8217;s real moat is its philosophy because we get to stick to it.<\/p>\n<p>What is the Zerodha philosophy, and if you had to explain it to the outside world, what is it and why does it matter so much?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> At the core of it, it&#8217;s about being the best possible broker a customer can get. That&#8217;s really the core of it. When we started Zerodha back in 2010, I was not trying to be a large broker. We had very small dreams. But basically, we said that traders have this problem and we want to solve it. That has remained the core philosophy.<\/p>\n<p>For example, when we started the business, we said we were going to spend no money on customer acquisition. At that time, it was not a philosophy; it was because there was simply no money on the table. But we knew that we didn&#8217;t want to spend money on client acquisition, and that&#8217;s something we stuck around with all this while.<\/p>\n<p>The thing about the cost of acquisition (CAC) is that when you spend \u20b91,000 to \u20b92,000 to acquire a customer, you are then wired as a business to recover that money back. There are so many things that can potentially be done to recover it, and none of it is good for the customer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> By the way, that doesn&#8217;t exist in almost any other finance app. Literally every other app is meant to trigger you into doing something.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> That is their business, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> It&#8217;s not even that. It&#8217;s like\u2014not to dunk on platforms\u2014but everybody gets some undue joy about sending X number of push notifications a day, as if there&#8217;s some God-given target.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Me and Kailash keep talking about this: we are in this Goldilocks zone. We can become a large business without raising any external capital and without having traditional targets. The reason we are able to stick to our philosophies is entirely because of that. If we had gone and raised money from someone else, then for sure we would be wired toward these.<\/p>\n<p>The core philosophy is just to be the best possible broker for a customer. The best possible broker is one who doesn&#8217;t get into nudging trades, doesn&#8217;t do random push notifications, and doesn&#8217;t do spammy things.<\/p>\n<p>For example, take Varsity, our education initiative. We&#8217;ve been running it since 2013 and have had a few million people register on it. Not once have we asked any of those millions of people to open an account with Zerodha. In essence, we are not built like a traditional company.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> I forgot where I heard this line; you might have said it in an interview: &#8220;I wanted Zerodha to be the broker I didn&#8217;t have.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s the whole thing. In 2010, we were saying, *&#8221;Let me build something that I don&#8217;t have as a trader.\u201d A lot of people start off with that good intention, but along the way, you raise money and once you raise money, you keep having to raise money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> It just becomes a rat race.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Not having anyone in the team looking at revenue targets. We don&#8217;t give any revenue targets to anyone on the team.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> In fact, we don&#8217;t even have a sales team.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> I met with a founder recently, and I was sharing our financials for this year. He noticed that from last year to this year the financials are flat, and he asked, &#8220;Doesn&#8217;t your team get involved in all of this?&#8221;, I was telling him we don&#8217;t work like that. Generally, in terms of data, we don&#8217;t have a data team that analyzes customer data to say what will get them to click on this button versus that button. We do none of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> I come from a marketing background, and I&#8217;ve done marketing before I entered Zerodha. Obviously, I knew about the no-advertising philosophy and no pushy sales before joining. But now that I&#8217;m actually inside and see how things work, when I try to explain to marketeers outside that we don&#8217;t do advertisements, push notifications, none of that, their minds boggle, like, &#8220;How are you getting your business?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>I wanted to understand this philosophy we have. We started this 16 years ago because we didn&#8217;t have money at the time. But now we have a lot of money, and there&#8217;s so much more competition. Every broker is running ads and using influencers to get business. How do you hold the company back from taking those same actions to compete?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Until 2013, I was not close to any startup founders, so there was no startup experience or industry benchmarks. In 2013, I went to a startup conference where people started throwing around words like &#8220;CAC&#8221;, &#8220;MAU&#8221;, and &#8220;DAU&#8221;. I still remember thinking to myself, &#8220;Dude, what are they talking about?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Then I learned that the cost of acquisition was CAC, and they asked me what our CAC was. I said, &#8220;Minus 500 rupees,&#8221; because we were charging an account opening fee of \u20b9500. But coming back to your question: what is competition?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Anyone that is doing the same business and taking away business from us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> What is competition, and in what time frame? Because if you put a short time frame to it, you are going to be completely wired to that competition. If your timeframe is forever, you can&#8217;t view it as a simple horse race where someone is winning and someone is losing.<\/p>\n<p>The problem is that a lot of people around us think of this as a competition. It&#8217;s not. The competition is to be the best version of yourself. That is the target and the goal. It is not easy to stick to that goal and continue doing the best possible for your customer when there are so many external forces trying to dissuade you and trigger you to do something that seems instantly profitable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> That was the core question: how do you stay sane when everybody around you is going insane?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> Having Kailash helps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> The worst part about finance is that you have numbers everywhere; everything is quantified. There&#8217;s absolutely nothing which is unquantified.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> One of the biggest challenges is to not get dissuaded by people around me. Even when I think about what is next for Zerodha, or what happens in case I am not there, the next leader who comes in needs to think and act similarly. That&#8217;s what makes Zerodha what it is. It&#8217;s not just the product; it&#8217;s how unorthodox we are as a business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> We are an outlier in every sense of the word.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Do you think if someone had to start a broking business today in 2026, took the playbook of Zerodha, and tried to build it, it would be possible?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Back in 2010, the only money that went into the business was \u20b910 lakh. We spent \u20b93 lakhs for a website and \u20b97 lakh for computers for the office. We had a rented office, and that&#8217;s the only money that has gone into Zerodha as a business till date.<\/p>\n<p>Now, for anyone starting off today, how is it possible to even start something like that? Someone starting off today will have to raise money from investors. As soon as you raise money from someone, it&#8217;s almost impossible for you to say the things that we are saying. I think it&#8217;s next to impossible to be a Zerodha in today&#8217;s world.<\/p>\n<p>But why does someone have to be exactly like Zerodha? I keep thinking about the broking business and what potential problems can be solved. I think there is an opportunity for an advisory-first broker. Unfortunately, that broker will not be able to build a business for millions of customers because the economics don&#8217;t work. If a broker is happy being small, there&#8217;s an opportunity for an advisory-first broker in between all these platform-centric brokers, including us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: But being small is a very unnatural aspiration in today&#8217;s day and age.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: That&#8217;s the problem\u2014no one is happy being small because everyone is always comparing. Once you raise money to start a business, you have to generate returns. In a sense, it&#8217;s a wrong thing with capitalism of today; the world is always pushing you to grow. Someone has to slow down and question: growth at what cost? That&#8217;s essentially what we were doing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: When we started the business, you said we couldn&#8217;t afford to spend money on CAC, which meant we couldn&#8217;t advertise or offer incentives. At what point did the idea dawn on you that referrals could be a growth lever? Our referral program has a very unique history.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: When we first designed Zerodha, the first two utilities built on our website were a brokerage calculator\u2014which was revolutionary because it made it transparent and the second thing was a referral calculator. We showed that if you refer 10 people and they generate this much business, here is how much you can make.<\/p>\n<p>Referrals were the first thing because even before Zerodha, I was running different groups on platforms like Orkut, Facebook, and Traderji, so I knew how to get customers to talk about us. It started right from then. For us, referrals as a lead source contributed to 25% of our business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: That&#8217;s just what we know of. I think it&#8217;s 40% easily.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: I was also a referral customer because I learned from Varsity, and my father and brother pushed me into using Zerodha because they were very familiar with the platform.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Then you probably didn\u2019t come through a referral.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: I didn&#8217;t come through a referral.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Shadow referral.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: We figured giving a customer a reason to refer will possibly be a good reason. It was going really well until 2024, when SEBI and exchange regulations came in and stated that you can&#8217;t pay these types of referral fees. Now that we have clarity on this, we are about to restart it. It&#8217;s essentially a way to say thank you for talking about us to your friends.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: In the initial days, we used to pay 10% of the brokerage for as long as the customer stayed with us. We were saying thank you forever. Not many businesses offer a lifelong referral fee.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: If I could go back in time, we would have probably said thank you for 10 years or something,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Because we couldn&#8217;t afford to give away a whole lot of money in the initial days either.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: But it worked out really well for us as a business. Hopefully, now that the business is plateauing, we should bring it back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Even without it, more or less 15-20% of customers come through referral.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Because we don\u2019t advertise, our customers are talking about us to their friends. It\u2019s quite crazy actually how many people come through referrals.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: I mean, I can&#8217;t think of many other businesses where word of mouth does what is does for us. It is the chief brand ambassador for our business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: This next question has created a lot of debate internally, especially in the post-COVID period. There&#8217;s this perception that we are not a platform for beginners. The typical perception is that XYZ platform is meant for beginners, but Zerodha is meant for serious people who have a lot of money, especially active traders. They say we&#8217;re not beginner-friendly. If somebody actually took two minutes to use the platform, they would have the completely opposite take. Whenever somebody says this, I get annoyed. What goes on in your head?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: When we started off, we wanted to be a platform for active traders. So when someone says that, there is truth to it. Until 2016-17, we hadn&#8217;t deeply thought about investors. We were building a platform for traders because that was our hook. The idea was to get the most active traders in the country to trade with us, and it worked.<\/p>\n<p>Only by 2016, once Kailash launched the Kite app and we realized it was super fast and convenient, our ambitions grew.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Was it also because of the digital boom that happened because of Jio?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: That was 2016-17 onwards, but we had thought about it before that. It just coincided very well. In 2016-17, we first said we&#8217;ll go out and start attracting investors, and that&#8217;s also when we went zero brokerage for equity investments. Then direct mutual funds in India, and we could start offering them. We had an option to either bring everything into the same app or keep it separate. We decided to keep them separate: Kite for investing and trading, and Coin for mutual funds. You have to realize this was the time of web apps; not everything was mobile-first yet.<\/p>\n<p>In hindsight, I think we should have merged those two platforms to provide a single experience. Because a client has to install two apps, they automatically assume it&#8217;s complex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: But we had good reasons at that point\u2014it would have cluttered the experience, and the technology at the time wasn&#8217;t at a place where it could handle that scale.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Technologically, we weren&#8217;t ready until recently to integrate and offer it on the same app. Right now, we&#8217;re working on making it happen so you can transact on mutual funds directly on Kite.<\/p>\n<p>Another reason people feel it&#8217;s complex is that Kite is completely clutter-free. There are no 52-week highs\/lows, no top losers or gainers, and no notifications saying &#8220;so many people on our platform are buying this stock.&#8221; We don&#8217;t have triggers to prompt people to trade. When you open the app and don&#8217;t see any of these triggers, it is bound to feel a little more intimidating. We are working on a page you can visit if you want to get triggers, but it won&#8217;t be the default page. These reasons together have led to these misunderstandings.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve used all our competitor apps. I find it ridiculously hard to use them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: The next question ties into the risk of the business. You said most people don&#8217;t understand the risks. The line you used after that MCX incident was, &#8220;It feels like we are picking up pennies in front of a steamroller.&#8221; Losing money is the outcome of risk, but today most people think broking is easy\u2014you press a button, it goes to the exchange, and there&#8217;s no risk. What could potentially go wrong besides leverage risk? How do you define how risky being a broker is apart from the outcome, which is losing money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: The first risk is the onboarding risk. For example, if some terrorist comes and trades on your platform, how do you check that instantly?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: It has happened in other businesses, banks, etc. It&#8217;s not a remote risk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Once a customer starts trading, you have millions of customers streaming data from the exchanges. We get this data on a leased line, which we have no control over. If something goes wrong with the leased line.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Like someone digging up the road\u2014we are buggered.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: And that is when customers blame us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It can happen for multiple reasons. Before an order even gets placed on the exchange, there is a span risk check. We need to ensure the customer has sufficient funds and checks off on all the portfolio risk parameters mandated by the exchanges. Once the order travels from our server at the data center to the exchange server, it uses a leased line. Assuming the order is placed and line gets screwed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Like during Mumbai Metro construction, the leased lines were damaged.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: If a leased line goes down, I can&#8217;t just reconcile those orders on another line instantly; it&#8217;s a big process. So there are multiple risks.<\/p>\n<p>Operational risk is also immense. During quarterly settlements, we have to send out all the funds in customer accounts back to them. That is a massive amount\u2014we send out \u20b916,000 to \u20b917,000 crores. What if we send it to the wrong accounts?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: This is India; there&#8217;s no getting it back easily.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It hasn&#8217;t happened, but it&#8217;s a huge operational risk. All this risk exists.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: But it&#8217;s not immediately apparent because the user screens look so nice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: We have to live with the risk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: I joined in 2017, and until 2019, things seemed relatively boring. But what happened after 2020 was the most insane phase.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: From 2015 to 2020, there were 1.5 crore client additions. 2020 to 2025, there were 10 crore account creations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: In the last six years, we&#8217;ve added the entirety of Indian capital markets history combined.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It&#8217;s ridiculous what just happened.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Have you internalized it? I still haven&#8217;t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I still haven&#8217;t. Anytime growth happens suddenly, excesses get built into the system. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m generally pessimistic about it. What would have otherwise taken 20 years happened instantly. It&#8217;s tough to internalize, and that&#8217;s why every time stock prices or exchange volumes spike, I feel more bearish.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: How did you handle that sudden spike of growth? Were we even prepared for it in 2020?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: No, we were not. In February 2020, we were working on our infrastructure silos through which orders get placed, and our second silo went live just in time before the COVID boom happened. If it hadn&#8217;t gone live, we would not have been able to scale. The reason we survived was because of that one additional silo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: The amount of luck factor in this\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: In this whole journey over the last 16 years, it has just been luck after luck. There&#8217;s a friend of mine who says that Nikil has rajyog and by ensuring I&#8217;m next to him I also got rajyog.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: When you saw that spike and business started booming, the amount of money coming into the business was way more than you ever thought. Was there a moment where you felt, &#8220;We are set now, we don&#8217;t need to do anything else&#8221;?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Around 2016, I realized that more money was not going to get me anything in life. I took a chunk of money, put it into a bank fixed deposit, and said, &#8220;Even if the whole life goes to the dogs, this FD exists and I&#8217;ll be all right.&#8221; Money stopped being the primary factor.<\/p>\n<p>Most people have this lifestyle creep because they look at people bigger than them and hope to be that person.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: You didn\u2019t have that factor? Now I have reached this scale and now reach this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I didn&#8217;t have that factor because of Kailash&#8217;s influence; he is like my guruji, I keep telling that to him.<\/p>\n<p>The second thing is, from the last six-seven years, I stopped hanging around with people who only talk about startups, business, revenue, and profits. If you hang around with people like that, you slowly start becoming like that. I decided my friend circle wouldn&#8217;t be that, and that&#8217;s a big reason why we stuck to our philosophies. I hang around with people for whom money is not the most important thing in life.<\/p>\n<p>Regarding growth, when we started growing rapidly in 2020, people didn&#8217;t realize that in our business, we can&#8217;t grow above 15% of the market&#8217;s open interest. If you go over 15% of the total open derivative contracts (FNO contracts) that exist, you start getting a penalty from the exchanges. Back in 2020, we started exceeding that 15% limit. Back then, they didn&#8217;t have a strict penalty, just a warning, so we managed to survive those two years.<\/p>\n<p>After that, thankfully, every other business grew too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: The markets expanded significantly thanks to the competition.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: When people ask what I think about competition, I say that if not for them, we wouldn&#8217;t be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: We recently had a significant chunk of revenue disappear when the exchange rebate went away. That has been largely replaced by MTF (Margin Trading Facility) revenue, which has seen hockey-stick growth. You recently pointed out that MTF is not easy money. How worried are you about MTF as a risk factor?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Before you answer, tell the audience what MTF is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: MTF stands for Margin Trading Facility. For all intents and purposes, we give you a loan so you can go buy stocks\u2014like a &#8220;buy now, pay later&#8221; for stocks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Since we started the business, the only time I really worry about the business due to systemic risk is because of this MTF risk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: For context, it&#8217;s not a product you were too keen on offering.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: If there was an option, we wouldn&#8217;t have done it. But in our business, if you don&#8217;t offer MTF or allow people to trade options using collateral (pledging stocks instead of cash), you lose the customer.<\/p>\n<p>MTF is really risky. Firstly, because it is growing so fast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: The industry-wide outstanding is around \u20b91.3 lakh crores,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: And most of it has come in the last three years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: We represent about 6% to 7% of that total.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Secondly, the problem with MTF is not the 50% of the book that is in FNO stocks; it&#8217;s the 50% of the book in non-FNO stocks. With FNO stocks, there is liquidity available all the time. If bad news comes and a stock falls 30%, you can exit at 30% because the Risk Management System can square off the position.<\/p>\n<p>But with non-FNO stocks, once they start falling, they hit continuous lower circuits. You can&#8217;t exit the positions. Half of our MTF book is from non-FNO stocks. It doesn\u2019t keep me up at night, but I think about it quite a bit. If it continues to grow the way it is growing, I don&#8217;t know what will happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: The weird thing is that it&#8217;s continuing to grow even when the markets have been doing nothing. Since 2024 we have been sideways.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: The reason for the growth of MTF is that the regulator and exchanges put restrictions on trading futures by increasing charges. People who seek leverage will always find it somewhere. Right now, they are all seeking leverage through this product.<\/p>\n<p>With everything happening globally with inflation and job losses due to AI, I&#8217;m scared about where things are headed. India is holding up because international markets are at all-time highs, but if things turn around, the stock market can be in a bad spot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: I hope your feelings don&#8217;t come true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I hope it every day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Both of you are big pessimists for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: The irony, that was my next question. I cannot recollect the year you tweeted, as Charlie Munger would like to say \u201cI\u2019m a cheerful pessimist.\u201d This is big part of your philosophy, where does that come from?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It means prepare for the worst and hope for the best. It has become a core philosophy. I keep joking with the Rainmatter investment team\u2014we&#8217;ve invested in about 150 startups and put in \u20b91,500 to \u20b91,600 crores\u2014and I tell them it&#8217;s a write-off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: We are like an NGO masquerading as a VC.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: In my head, I treat it as a write-off because it helps me prepare for the worst-case scenario and hope for the best. It kind of helps me stay sane.<\/p>\n<p>Otherwise, how is it possible to lead a life if you are constantly anxious about the excitement and money all these different things can generate? We have Ditto, the AMC, the NBFC (Zerodha Capital), and so many startups. If I were to think of each one as a potential opportunity to become a unicorn, I wouldn&#8217;t be able to operate properly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Rainmatter has become a brand in itself. But a significant amount of people probably don\u2019t know what Rainmatter is. Without getting into the story, how do you think about Rainmatter in terms of how it has become such a big part of the Indian start-up ecosystem? The fact that we get to support a lot of these entrepreneurs who get to take a shot in life, who otherwise would get shut off by other VCs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Adding to that, a lot of startups prefer Rainmatter over other VCs and are ready to take a lower valuation just to have Rainmatter on board. That&#8217;s a great position to be in the market.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: The reason people want us is because we provide patient capital. If you are constantly worried about what will happen to the money in 3, 4, or 5 years, it is very tough to build a business as a founder. You have a hundred things on your mind, and you shouldn&#8217;t have to worry about answering investors for quick returns, especially in a country like India where it is tough to monetise quickly. The fact that we deploy patient capital is why the brand has been created.<\/p>\n<p>For the last 2-3 years, we&#8217;ve been trying to invest more into deep tech and climate tech. The Rainmatter of 2026 is not the Rainmatter of 2020. Back then, it was fintech, health, and consumer startups.<\/p>\n<p>As a country, we need to own our technologies and solve large structural problems. We are doing that in a sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: In 2017, e-Sign and digital Aadhaar gave the first big fillip to the business by enabling digital growth. Then smartphone penetration and Jio expanded the market, followed by the COVID boom. Back then, there wasn&#8217;t much competition in the broking space; it was mostly old-school brokers. You used to joke that until we reported our P&amp;L numbers, nobody cared about broking, which allowed us to build our moat.<\/p>\n<p>But post-2020, everybody wants to get into broking\u2014even companies like Dream11. What is Zerodha&#8217;s moat today? Back then, it was pricing, but everyone copied it. Then it was the product. What is it now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: The philosophy itself is our moat. There is a platform that truly cares for you as a customer. I don&#8217;t think anyone else in finance will match that because their incentives are different. I looked at a one-year-old startup&#8217;s app recently, and within 30 minutes, it sent multiple push notifications to trade. It&#8217;s hard to disrupt a business that refuses to do that. We are like the Apple of broking in that sense.<\/p>\n<p>That said, the competition is definitely ahead of us in terms of user acquisition. One of the mistakes we made back in 2020 was that I went on social media and announced we were going to work from home permanently. I got a lot of likes, but we were a little too late to bring people back to the office.<\/p>\n<p>What happened in that period, a lot of competition spent money on videos and stuff like that. We weren\u2019t quick enough to transition. Also, we were not quick enough to transition because at that time we were seeing a significant amount of scale.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: You didn\u2019t think it was enough to\u2026?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Concentration was around all the business that was coming in and how do you cater to that and not worry about new business as such.<\/p>\n<p>There were a bunch of competitors who started around that time. Which meant they could build around everything. I did not expect the level of penetration that IPL ads could buy. For us to reach a person in areas like Bihar, IPL ads were the only way, and competitors captured that. We missed out on millions of users who came from non-metro regions historically new to the markets. That\u2019s a miss from our side.<\/p>\n<p>But that&#8217;s okay. We are here today because the competition expanded the market, which kept us within our open interest limits. Since our revenues come from derivatives and we are maxed out on our open interest limit, it&#8217;s a good thing that happened.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: If an entrepreneur comes to you today and says they are building a broking business, but they aren&#8217;t going to follow Zerodha&#8217;s philosophy, and they ask Rainmatter for funding to target the audience we aren&#8217;t reaching, would you fund them?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Back in 2020, when we started hitting the open interest limits, we actually got a second broking license thinking we could split the interest. But it doesn&#8217;t work that way due to regulations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: We cannot invest?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: We can invest. In terms of investing in a competitor, we could, but I don&#8217;t see the point of investing in a direct competitor unless there\u2019s a reason; for example, I was telling you there&#8217;s an opportunity in advisory. Unless someone is really pitching that as an idea, I don\u2019t think we\u2019ll invest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Coincidentally, we&#8217;ve unwittingly incubated other brokers because when we hit our 15% limit, our customers had to go elsewhere to trade certain things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: In 2026, no interview is complete without the AI question. You recently mentioned that we can afford not to have an opinion on AI, but a couple of years ago on Twitter, you said if AI continues to develop this way, brokers might just become the API backend layer while customers create their own front-ends, changing Zerodha completely. Fast forward to 2026, how do you think about AI now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I am still in the same camp. I actually think there is no need for brokers in the country if exchanges can do the job. The world is heading toward people building custom apps, connecting to brokers purely through APIs, and firing orders.<\/p>\n<p>Among the existing brokers, we are probably best positioned for this because we embrace APIs. Most brokers will resist this change because if their customers move to custom apps, the brokers lose the ability to trigger them to trade. That\u2019s the only thing that can disrupt a business, and we are on the right side of it.<\/p>\n<p>Internally, we have always been a flat organization. In 2016, we had more people than we did in 2024. We are just around 1,000 people today. Out of those 1,000 people, only about 100 people are really required to run the business operations. The other 900 people are in support functions like customer support, account opening, and quality checks.<\/p>\n<p>The core team is really small. Kailash has always been against excessive hiring. Me and K were talking about this recently, and he was telling, now that AI is here, engineers are three to four times more productive than they were before. It&#8217;s a crazy time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: We also have a man who\u2019s always vibe-coding something.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: What are your thoughts on the overall impact of AI on capital markets?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I don&#8217;t have a great opinion on what AI will do. I&#8217;m quite pessimistic on what AI can do, and I think India is in a tricky spot as such.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: You spoke about the risks you feel with the business\u2014leverage, MTF, etc. What is the one risk in general that keeps you up at night?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It has been a long time since any risk kept me up. Back in 2016-17, when I took out money and put it into a fixed deposit, that was the most peaceful thing I did.<\/p>\n<p>Right now, the MTF book scale is bothering me. It does come in my dreams sometimes\u2014the market is down and us being unable to exit half of our non-FNO positions and things like that.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing running through my head since my stroke two and a half years ago is succession. How do I ensure that Zerodha, in its current avatar, continues even if I&#8217;m not around? It&#8217;s not a risk per se, but it&#8217;s kind of there.<\/p>\n<p>Over the last two years, we&#8217;ve been trying to bring more processes, hold more formal board meetings, and involve more people on the board. You don&#8217;t want a sudden big shift to happen to the business just because the leader is not there. I need to figure out who the next leader will be and how to ensure they stick as close to the philosophy as possible.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s crazy how much influence one person&#8217;s decisions can have on society. For example, I keep talking about allocating 10% of profits to Rainmatter investments and 10% to the Rainmatter Foundation. Why am I talking about it? It\u2019s not for people to know about; it\u2019s for everyone internally to make sure they are peaceful with it. The fact that we need to allocate this much money every year.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: One event risk is not really hypothetical. When the RBI suddenly said you can&#8217;t trade currency derivatives, it was a good example in my head saying things can change in an instant. One decent revenue and financial product was instantly stopped overnight.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: For example, whatever has happened to real money gaming.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Now that you have spoken about the future of Zerodha. Have you thought about succession planning in any way?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I haven&#8217;t thought about succession planning in the sense of leaving Zerodha tomorrow. But I think about it in the context of health event risks. The first time I had a stroke, I was lucky it was a minor thing. But if a second one happens and if I turn vegetable, what happens to Zerodha then? That&#8217;s the sense in which I think about succession.<\/p>\n<p>Apart from that, I am a one-trick pony. The only thing I&#8217;ve done since I was 17 years old\u2014for almost 30 years now\u2014is trading, stockbroking, and educating people on the stock markets. There is no Act 2 for me. I haven&#8217;t thought about anything else. Maybe there\u2019s something that will come, but at least for now Zerodha, Rainmatter Investments, and the Rainmatter Foundation are what keep me going.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Long ago, you said you only needed \u20b95 crores in your account to retire to a beach shack in Goa. Now that you speak about this, if things go well and you continue to run Zerodha, do you think you will run it till you are old, till you are 80, 90?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I think so. When the stroke happened, for two to three months I thought a lot about whether I should come back to work, and essentially there\u2019s nothing else to do in life. We all need a reason for living. I can take a holiday, but I can&#8217;t lead a retired life in my head. As long as I am not senile, I&#8217;ll be running this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Looking back at 16 years of Zerodha, you previously said you wouldn&#8217;t change anything. Does that remain true today, or would you tell a young Nithin to do something differently?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> I wouldn&#8217;t change anything. If I had done well in college, this wouldn&#8217;t be the outcome. My life, especially after starting Zerodha, has been one lucky break after another. Even the delay in our video marketing strategy in 2020 allowed competitors to grow, which expanded the market and kept us under regulatory open interest limits. Everything happened at the right time and place. There is nothing much I want to change.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Is there any one mistake or anything, like the video strategy example, you could have done faster or in a different way that would have changed things a little bit?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> The one thing I was completely wrong about early on was thinking we could build a decent-sized business by using third-party vendors to provide the technology. We had thought of capping out at one lakh customers, but even for that size, vendor tech wouldn&#8217;t have worked.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan:<\/strong> Just to make it clear they are notoriously unreliable and always come and bite you at the worst moments.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> That is one thing that would change.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit:<\/strong> Last couple of questions. Moving towards the Rainmatter side. Now that you have been an entrepreneur for the last 16 years, and even before that. As an entrepreneur looking at the current ecosystem, what would be your advice to someone who wants to start a business today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin:<\/strong> First, not everyone needs to be an entrepreneur. There is a huge coolness factor associated with it today, making entrepreneurs out to be the new generation of heroes, but entrepreneurship is a serious grind. It&#8217;s not for everyone.<\/p>\n<p>For those who choose this path, the odds of getting lucky increase the longer you stick to it. I saw a lot of luck after 2010, but the 12 years before Zerodha, it was stupid, the amount of stupidity that happened to our lives.<\/p>\n<p>For entrepreneurs, the longer someone is able to stick to something the odds of getting lucky. You can only stick to something long enough if you truly love what you are doing and are passionate about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Social media makes it hard today because people struggle to put on blinders and focus on a single journey. Are there any characteristics you are looking at when evaluating a certain founder or a startup you want to invest in?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I mean, that\u2019s the thing we\u2019re trying to find: the founder who is the most passionate. Someone who isn\u2019t just in it because they came up with an idea in a coffee shop, for example, but someone who has spent time with the problem, who has been close to the cause, and who has spent time thinking deeply about it.<\/p>\n<p>But we are also supporting, as I said, deep tech, climate tech, and health tech. Those ideas usually don\u2019t come unless you\u2019ve spent a significant part of your life thinking about them.<\/p>\n<p>So, it\u2019s tough. Consumer startup ideas can come up in a coffee shop. And there are people who will probably fund them. But all of these areas are more technical in nature.<\/p>\n<p>Why are we investing in climate tech, deep tech, and health tech? That\u2019s our call. We believe these are areas where India needs its own homegrown technologies.<\/p>\n<p>Rainmatter is a vehicle to give back to society, whether through the foundation directly or through investments in startups that build products and help make the country a better place.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Okay. The last question is about Nithin\u2019s health journey since the stroke. Are you back to 100%? And as you went through it, has it changed your worldview about anything\u2014personal or business? I know it\u2019s a bit of a personal question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: In terms of me being back, I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m back yet. Even when we were conversing, I had this big sheet of questions, I was preparing so hard for this today.<\/p>\n<p>But mentally, I\u2019m not back yet because the stroke I had is called an aphasic stroke. Basically, I have issues with word retrieval. When I\u2019m talking to you, the word doesn\u2019t really come at the right time. It comes with a delay and stuff like that. So that\u2019s the issue.<\/p>\n<p>Physically also, my right hand, shoulders, hips, and knees are always aching, and I\u2019m injury-prone. I like to work out and all, but these places pick up injuries much faster.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: And your worldview? Because people usually have revelations after big moments.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I ended up meeting a bunch of people after that\u2014the who\u2019s who of the world\u2014and asking them what they think about life and all. I don\u2019t really seem to have had as many revelations as possible.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: There was no enlightening moment for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: I think that\u2019s bad for Instagram content.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: But the only thing is, shit happens.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: That\u2019s a hard thing to internalise. It\u2019s a torturous journey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Life is like that. Everyone has a fight, everyone has a struggle, and everyone has to go through it. So there are no excuses. In essence, I make sure to think about people who have had much worse conditions than me. I feel extremely lucky. Like I said, always prepare for the worst. I\u2019m always thinking, \u201cWhat if the next stroke happens?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: But the only thing is, [unclear], that\u2019s a hard thing to internalise. It\u2019s a torturous journey. I mean, life is like that. Everyone has a fight, everyone has a struggle, and everyone has to go through it. So there are no excuses.<\/p>\n<p>In essence, I make sure to think about people who have had much worse conditions than me. I feel extremely lucky.<\/p>\n<p>So, like I said, always prepare for the worst. I\u2019m always thinking, \u201cWhat if the next stroke happens?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Doesn\u2019t it get exhausting? I\u2019ve asked you this before, but doesn\u2019t always assuming the worst-case scenario get exhausting?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: No, it doesn\u2019t. Because once you\u2019ve already accepted it, everything is at peace, right? Accepting it is the problem.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: You make it sound easy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It\u2019s not. If I\u2019m told that I\u2019ll be a vegetable tomorrow\u2014that I can\u2019t move, can\u2019t do anything, and can\u2019t talk\u2014who would want to be that? But once you accept that, dude, it can happen to you, I think it\u2019s very liberating.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: It\u2019s just perspective that is helping you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: It\u2019s helped me throughout my life, and I think that has been the core thing about my journey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: We\u2019ve spoken a lot about Zerodha and about you. I want to know\u2014of course, the core business continues to remain broking, but we\u2019re also doing a lot of things to go beyond broking.<\/p>\n<p>We have LAS, which we\u2019ve introduced. We have the fund house as well, and we\u2019re also investing in other fintech startups that can help us diversify.<\/p>\n<p>How are you thinking about the diversification of Zerodha? And how do you imagine it as we progress 10 years from now? What does Zerodha look like in your mind?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I want the broking business to be less than 25% of the overall revenue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit and Bhuvan:<\/strong> That\u2019s a big ask, by the way. Just for context, what is it right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Right now, it\u2019s 97\u201398%. But, for example, Ditto Insurance is a \u20b9100 crore-plus revenue business. The AMC is probably around \u20b930 crore. LAS is probably another \u20b930\u201340 crore through Zerodha Capital.<\/p>\n<p>But it\u2019s not really the right comparison because you\u2019re comparing a 16-year-old business that got extremely lucky through the journey with three- or four-year-old businesses. Can they potentially get there in another 10 years? They can.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m also not very sure about the growth of the broking business. The way stock markets are valuing some of these stocks is basically saying that, over the next five or six years, another 10 crore people will come to the markets. They\u2019re expecting that kind of growth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: But they can. India has 150 crore people. Only 10 crore invest. There are another 140 crore people. I don\u2019t think your maths is right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: People invest once they are in a position to put food on the table. Where are the people who have excess money at the end of the day after putting food on the table?<\/p>\n<p>So I don\u2019t think so. I think this increase in business that has happened over the last six or seven years has created some excesses, and I think there will be corrections. There will be long periods where the market does nothing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: We seem to be in the middle of one as we speak.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Yeah. So the eventual goal is to hopefully have broking contribute only 25% of the revenues.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: What are the other business segments that Zerodha could dive deeper into over the next 10 years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: If you were to ask me, I would say that 10 years from now, all our climate investments are going to be much more important than the Zerodha broking business itself. Their valuations could potentially be higher than the broking business because, with whatever is happening with climate change, people\u2019s mindshare will start moving towards climate.<\/p>\n<p>This year, for example, we\u2019re in trouble. The heat waves and all\u2014I mean, thousands of people are dying every day. I think as and when it starts affecting rich people, that\u2019s when the focus will shift towards people building solutions for it.<\/p>\n<p>So I have a feeling that the climate investments themselves can do well. Otherwise, as a business, Zerodha itself is trying to build the wealth business, the AMC business, the insurance business, and the Zerodha Capital business. These are all the adjacencies in fintech that we\u2019re building.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Final question to wrap this up. What is Nithin Kamath\u2019s life outside Zerodha? We know that you focus a lot on health and that you\u2019re very much into fitness. But beyond that, the public doesn\u2019t know a lot about Nithin Kamath.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: My life is so boring, it\u2019s not funny. I have my morning routine, my workout, and all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: What time do you wake up, by the way?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I get up by 5. I\u2019m done with my workouts by 7. By 7:30, I sit down in front of the computer and try to do the morning work. By 9 or 9:15, I\u2019m getting ready for the office. I come to the office at 10, and by 6:30, I\u2019m back home. Once I go home, I like doing the sauna, cold plunge, etc. Then I have dinner, spend time with Kian and Seema, and by 9:00, I\u2019m back in bed.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s my routine. That\u2019s all of my routine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: Have you always been waking up at 5?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: For the last three or four years. I realised that getting the workout done first thing in the morning makes life easier and simpler. The second benefit of getting up early in the morning is that you sleep early.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: But don\u2019t you miss having late nights?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: No, not at all. The problem with late nights is that you\u2019re emotionally weak, and you make all the wrong choices, whether it\u2019s in terms of food.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Have you also done 2:00 a.m. and 3:00 a.m.?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I used to. People used to complain that I sent emails to the team at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. So I\u2019ve had long nights. But I think once you start getting into your 40s, age starts taking a toll on you. I keep talking about this to Seema as well. I\u2019m kind of addicted to my routine, and it\u2019s not very healthy. So I need to somehow rewire myself and break the routine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Have one late-night binge.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I don\u2019t mean a late-night binge. I mean this whole thing that I need to work out in the morning. Why do I have to work out in the morning? I need to somehow mix it up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bhuvan<\/strong>: That\u2019s a reel moment right there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Thank you so much. As closing thoughts, is there anything you would want the audience watching to know? Is there any last message you want to put out right now, considering the current scenario we\u2019re in and everything that\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: I think, be good to people. As simple as that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rohit<\/strong>: Awesome. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nithin<\/strong>: Thanks.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>People know Zerodha. They know the brand, the product, the numbers. What they don&#8217;t know are the people who built it. A lot has already been said about how Zerodha started, why we chose a flat-fee model, and why we remained bootstrapped. Nithin has written and spoken openly about many of the questions people have [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":176551,"featured_media":453287,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[577,531],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-453285","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-business-updates","category-general"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v23.5 (Yoast SEO v26.6) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Welcome to The Back Office &#8211; Z-Connect by Zerodha<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"People know Zerodha. 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