5.1 – Quick Recap
Reiterating from the previous chapter –
You can classify yourself as an Investor if you hold equity investments for more than 1 year and show income as long term capital gain (LTCG). You can also consider yourself an investor and gains as short term capital gains (STCG) if your holding period is more than 1 day and less than 1 year. We also discussed how it is best to show your capital gains as a business income if the frequency of trades is higher or if investing/trading is your primary source of income.
In this chapter we will discuss all aspects of taxation when trading is declared as a business income, which can be categorized either as:
- Speculative business income – Income from intraday equity trading is considered as speculative. It is considered as speculative as you would be trading without the intention of taking delivery of the contract.
- Non-speculative business income – Income from trading F&O (both intraday and overnight) on all the exchanges are considered as non-speculative business income as it has been specifically defined this way. F&O is also considered as non-speculative as these instruments are used for hedging and also for taking/giving delivery of the underlying contracts. Even though currently almost all equity, currency, & commodity contracts in India are cash-settled, but by definition, they give rise to giving/taking delivery (there are a few commodity futures contracts like gold and almost all agri-commodity contracts with the delivery option to it).Income from shorter-term equity delivery based trades (held for between 1 day to 1 year) are also best to be considered as non-speculative business income if the frequency of such trades executed by you is high or if investing/trading in the markets is your main source of income.
5.2 – Taxation of trading/business income
Unlike capital gains, there is no fixed taxation rate when you have a business income. Speculative and non-speculative business income has to be added to all your other income (salary, other business income, bank interest, rental income, and others), and taxes paid according to the tax slab you fall in. You can refer to chapter 1 for tax slabs as applicable for FY 2020-21.
Let me explain this with an example:
- My salary – Rs.1,000,000/-
- Short term capital gains from delivery based equity – Rs.100,000/-
- Profits from F&O trading – Rs.100,000/-
- Intraday equity trading – Rs.100,000/-
Gives these incomes for the year, what is my tax liability?
In order to find out my tax liability, I need to calculate my total income by summing up salary, and all business income (speculative and non-speculative). The reason capital gains are not added is that capital gains have fixed taxation rates unlike a salary, or business income.
Total income (salary + business) = Rs.1,000,000 (salary income) + Rs.100,000 (Profits from F&O trading) + Rs.100,000 (Intraday equity trading) = Rs 1,200,000/-
I now have to pay tax on Rs 12,00,000/- based on the tax slab –
- 0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
- 250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 5% – Rs.12,500/-
- 500,000 – Rs.1,000,000 : 20% – Rs.100,000/-,
- 1,000,000 – 1,200,000: 30% – Rs.60,000/-
- Hence total tax : 12,500 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
Now, I also have an additional income of Rs.100,000/- classified under short term capital gains from delivery based equity. The tax rate on this is flat 15%.
STCG: Rs 100,000/-, so at 15%, tax liability is Rs.15,000/-
Total tax = Rs.172,500 + Rs.15,000 = Rs.187,500/-
I hope this example gives you a basic orientation of how to treat your income and evaluate your tax liability.
We will now proceed to find a list of important factors that have to be kept in mind when declaring trading as a business income for taxation.
5.3 – Carry forward business loss
If you file your income tax returns on time July 31st for non-audit case and Sept 30th for audit case, you can carry forward any business loss that is incurred.
Speculative losses can be carried forward for 4 years and can be set-off only against any speculative gains you make in that period.
Non-speculative losses can be set-off against any other business income except salary income the same year. So they can be set-off against bank interest income, rental income, capital gains, but only in the same year.
You carry forward non-speculative losses to the next 8 years; however, do remember carried forward non-speculative losses can be set-off only against any non-speculative gains made in that period.
For example, consider this – my hotel business income is Rs 1,500,000/-, my interest income for the year is Rs.200,000/-, and I make a non-speculative loss of Rs 700,000. In such a case, my tax liability for the year would be –
My gain is Rs 1,500,000/ from business and Rs.200,000/- from interest, so total of Rs.1,700,000/-.
I have a non-speculative business loss of Rs.700,000/-, which I can use to offset my business gains, and therefore lower my tax liability. Hence
Tax liability = Rs.1,700,000 – 700,000 = Rs.1,000,000/-
So I pay tax on Rs.1,000,000/- as per the tax slab I belong to, which would be –
- 0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
- 250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 5% – Rs.12,500/-
- 500,000 – Rs.1,000,000 : 20% – Rs.100,000/-,
Hence, Rs.112,500/- goes out as tax.
5.4 – Offsetting Speculative and non-speculative business income
Speculative (Intraday equity) loss can’t be offset with non-speculative (F&O) gains, but speculative gains can be offset with non-speculative losses.
If you incur speculative (intraday equity) loss of Rs.100,000/- for a year, and a non-speculative profit of Rs 100,000/-, then you cannot net-off each other and say zero profits. You would still have to pay taxes on Rs 100,000/- from non-speculative profit and carry forward the speculative loss.
For example, consider this –
- Income from Salary = Rs.500,000/-
- Non Speculative profit = Rs.100,000/-
- Speculative loss = Rs.100,000/-
I calculate my tax liability as –
Total income = Income from Salary + Gains from Non Speculative Business income
= Rs.500,000 + Rs.100,000 = Rs.600,000/-
I’m required to pay the tax on Rs.600,000 as per the slab rates –
- 0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
- 250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 5% – Rs.12,500/-
- 500,000 – Rs.600,000 : 20% – Rs.20,000/-,
Hence total tax = Rs.12,500 + Rs.20,000 = Rs.32,500/-
I can carry forward speculative loss of Rs.100,000/-, which I can set-off against any future (up to 4 years) speculative gains. Also to reiterate, speculative business losses can be set-off only against other speculative gains either the same year or when carried forward. Speculative losses can’t be set-off against other business gains.
But if I had a speculative gain of Rs 100,000/- and non-speculative loss of Rs 100,000/- they can offset each other, and hence tax in the above example would be only on the salary of Rs 500,000/-.
5.5 What is tax-loss harvesting?
Towards the end of a financial year, you might have realized profits and unrealized losses. If you let it be, you will pay taxes on realized profits and carry forward your unrealized losses to next year. This would mean a higher tax outgo immediately, and hence any interest that you could have earned on that capital goes away as taxes.
You can very easily postpone this tax outgo by booking the unrealized loss, and immediately getting back on the same trade. By booking the loss, the tax liability for the financial year would reduce.
While there is no explicit regulation in India that disallows tax loss harvesting. In the US, if stocks are sold and bought back within 30 days just to reduce taxes on realized gains, they are called wash sales, and taxes are disallowed to be offset. Given this, it is advisable for clients trading in India to consult a CA while filing income tax returns, as they could potentially be questioned by the income tax authorities during tax scrutiny if the same stock is sold and bought back just to save on the taxes.
We at Zerodha are the only brokerage in India presently giving out a tax loss harvesting report, which will spot all opportunities for you to harvest losses. Click here to learn more.
5.6 – BTST (ATST) – Is it speculative, non-speculative, or STCG?
BTST (Buy today Sell tomorrow) or ATST (Acquire today sell tomorrow) is quite popular among equity traders. It is called BTST when you buy today and sell tomorrow without taking delivery of the stock.
Since you are not taking delivery, should it be considered as speculative similar to intraday equity trading?
There are both schools of thought, one which considers it to be speculative because no delivery was taken. However, I come from the second school, which is to consider it as non-speculative/STCG as the exchange itself charges the security transaction tax (STT) for BTST trades similar to regular delivery based trades. A factor to consider is if such BTST trades are done just a few times in the year show it as STCG, but if done frequently it is best to show it as speculative business income.
5.7 – Advance tax – business income
Paying advance tax is important when you have a business income. Like we discussed in the previous chapter, the advance tax has to be paid every year – 15% by 15th Jun, 45% by 15th Sep, 75% by 15th Dec, and 100% by 15th March. I guess the question that will arise is % of what?
The % of the annual tax that you are likely to pay, yes! When you have a business income you have to pay most of your taxes before the year ends on March 31st. The issue with trading as a business is that you might have a great year until September, but you can’t extrapolate this to say that you will continue to earn at the same rate until the end of the financial year. It could be more or less.
But everything said and done, you are required to pay that advance tax, otherwise, the penalty is 12% annualized for the time period it was not paid for. The best way to pay advance tax is by paying tax for that particular time period, so Sept 15th pay for what was earned until then, and by March 15th close to the year-end, you can make all balance payments as you would have a fair idea on how you will close the year. You can claim a tax refund if you end up paying more tax than what was required to pay for the financial year. Tax refunds are processed in a quick time by the IT department.
You can make your advance tax payments online by clicking on Challan No./ITNS 280 on https://incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in/
Also, here is an interesting link that helps you calculate your advance tax – http://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Pages/tools/advance-tax-calculator.aspx. You can also check this link to see how exactly interest or penalty is calculated for non-payment of advance tax.
5.8 – Balance sheet and P&L statements –
When you have declared trading as a business income, you are required to like any other business to create a balance sheet and P&L or income statement for the financial year. Both these financial statements might need an audit based on your turnover and profitability. We will discuss more on this in the next chapter.
5.9 – Turnover and Tax audit
When is an audit required?
An audit is required if you have a business income and if your business turnover is more than Rs 5 crore for a financial year (from FY 20-21). In the case of digital transactions (equity transactions are 100% digital), this turnover limit is Rs 5 crores. For equity traders, an audit is also required as per section 44AD in cases where turnover is less than Rs.5 Crores but profits are lesser than 6% of the turnover and total income is above the minimum exemption limit.
We will discuss this in detail in the next chapter.
However, let us understand what audit really means.
The dictionary meaning of the term “audit” is check, review, inspection, etc. There are various types of audits prescribed under different laws like company law requires a company audit; cost accounting law requires a cost audit, etc. Likewise, the Income-tax Law requires the taxpayer to get the audit of the accounts of his business/profession from the view point of Income-tax Law if he meets the above-mentioned turnover criteria.
Check this link for FAQ’s on tax audit on the income tax website for more.
An audit can also be defined as having an accountant verify if you have prepared all your accounts right. In this case, it is getting an accountant to check if you have created a correct balance sheet and P&L statement for the year. Ideally, this audit should be done by the IT department itself, but considering the number of balance sheets out there, it is surely impossible for the IT department to audit each one of them. Hence we need a Chartered accountant (CA), who is a qualified professional and authorized by the Income-tax department to perform audits on the balance sheet and P&L statements. You the taxpayer can use any CA of your choice.
What role should a CA play?
Ideally, a CA is required to only audit and sign on the balance sheets and P&L statements. But a CA also typically ends up creating your balance sheets and P&L statements and will audit them only if required. We will in the next chapter briefly explain how a CA typically creates these two statements.
The importance of the audit process by a CA cannot be understated, apart from all the reporting requirements an audit also helps traders/investors know their financial health, ensure it faithfully reflects the income, and claims for deduction are correctly made. It also helps lenders evaluate credibility, and act as a check for any fraudulent practices.
Which ITR form to use? – ITR3 (ITR 4 until 2016), we will discuss more on this in the last chapter. I have come across incidents where people have declared both speculative and non-speculative as capital gains to avoid having to declare business income, and not having to use ITR3. Taking a shortcut like this could mean a lot of trouble if called for an IT scrutiny.
Business expenses when trading – Advantage of showing trading as a business is that you can show all expenses incurred as a cost which can then be used to reduce your tax outgo and if a net loss for the year after all these costs, it can be carried forward as explained above.
Following are some of the expenses that can be shown as a cost when trading
- All charges when trading (STT, Brokerage, Exchange charges, and all other taxes). I hope you remember that STT can’t be shown as a cost when declaring income as capital gains, but it can be in case of business income.
- Internet/phone bills if used for trading (portion proportionate to your usage on the bill)
- Depreciation of computer/other electronics (used for trading)
- Rental expense (if the place used for trading if a room used – a portion of your rent)
- Salary paid to anyone helping you trade
- Advisory fees, cost of books, newspapers, subscriptions, and more…
Key takeaways from this chapter
- Speculative business income if trading intraday equity.
- Non-speculative if trading F&O, or short term equity delivery actively.
- Speculative losses can’t be set-off against non-speculative gains.
- The advance tax has to be paid when trading as a business –15% by Jun 15th 45% by Sep 15th, 75% by Dec 15th, and 100% by Mar 15th.
- Can claim all expenses if income from trading shown as a business income.
Disclaimer – Do consult a chartered accountant (CA) before filing your returns. The content above is in the context of taxation for retail individual investors/traders only.
“An audit is required if you have a business income and if your business turnover is more than Rs.1 Crore for the given financial year. Audit is also required as per section 44AD in cases where turnover is less than Rs.1 Crore but profits are lesser than 8% of the turnover.”
I have two questions –
1) Is an audit required in case I am incurring loss and my turnover is less than 1 cr?
2) How is turnover calculated for advance tax calculation, because the full year is not over by the time we calculate advance tax?
1. If your net income for the year (trading + everything else) is less than 2.5lks, you don’t have to pay any taxes, and hence no audit will be required. But if your net income for the year is above 2.5lks and if you make a trading loss (F&O or intraday equity), yep you need to get an audit.
2. There is no need of calculating turnover for advance tax. Based on whatever profit you have made till the end of sept, dec, and March periods, just pay incremental tax accordingly.
Thanks for the quick reply Sir !
If salary income 500000 per anum and loss in Intraday 60000. Audit is needed? Yes or no.
Audit is based on your turnover. Since there is a loss and you fall under a tax slab, yeah audit is needed. Check all the chapters, audit is quite a simple thing.
If I have a loss of 20,000 then i need to get it audited for which i will have to pay CA another 10-15,000. So more loss if you make a loss in trading. What a shame, Audit should not be there if there is loss.
Your article is too Good and covered all the aspect but your attention may be directed to the Para 5 of “Guidance Note on Tax Audit under Section 44AB of the Income Tax Act,1961″ issued by The Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI), which provides the guidelines regarding “Turnover or Gross Receipts in respect of transactions in shares..” as follows:
a) In a speculative transaction, the contract for sale or purchase which is entered into is not completed by giving or receiving delivery so as to result in the sale as per value of contract note.
b) The contract is settled otherwise and squared up by paying out the difference which may be positive or negative. As such, in such transaction the difference amount is ‘turnover’.i.e intra day is covered under speculative non delivery based transaction.
and caring about all the other provisions, i suggest that Audit is not required in this case.
Advance tax is not required if income is computed under section 44AD; see Section 208 of Income tax Act.
Sorry, the relevant provision is covered in subsection (4) of 44AD Itself
Example
Salary :- 3.5lakh
intraday income (year) :- 1 lakh (approx after paid tax)
now question is, am i need to pay income tax again if all taxes already deduct on end of the day (intraday)
The taxes you are paying is transaction tax. Income tax still has to be paid. You need to add this 1lk to 3.5lks and pay according to the tax slab you are in.
If I have a short term loss ( trading in only equity cash market ) which is treated as non-speculative profit/loss and shown under the head ‘business income’ then how to show the shares standing on 31st March -whether as stock in trade or as investments ?
I am a future option trader…and 2018_2019 my total turnover show in the zerodha app 2.3 cr and my losses 310000 lakhs….will i pay tax or audit required please sir tell me …..and please sir give some contact zerodha CA details….
Yeah, best to get audited. Check out taxiq.in
Sir, first of all great article. I have a personal question, please help me out. My salaried income is around 11 lakh, last financial year, I made
1) Intraday EQUITY trading LOSS: 15000/-
2) Delivery based PROFIT (<1 Yr): 38000/-
3) Option trading LOSS: 35000/-
I don't trade daily. In whole yr, I might have placed less than 100 orders in total. I do not wish to get my account audited and also not claim any loss in ITR 4. But do I still have to pay SHORT TERM CAPITAL GAIN TAX, or I can just forget whole share market thing and file ITR 1. Please guide.
Thank You
You need to show everything on ITR3. Do go through all the chapters.
So it seems I have to find an chartered accountant
I started Stock trading on September month did equity with a loss of 30k and intraday trade with a loss of 40k but then I started F & O trading and I earned 8 lacs in 2 months . When do I have to pay tax and I want to know about taxation charges as well as do I need to audit. Because I don’t have a salary income. I am just a stock trades. One more if earn above 1 crore in a single year what will be the taxation on that.
Trading is a business, so like every business you need to pay an advance tax every quarter on your expected year end income. IF you pay more, you can always get a refund.
Above 1crore, there is a surcharge of 15% on your total tax outgo.
sir, do i need do get audit i checked my zerodha tax p&l my f&o turnover is 1.3crore and my profit is around 2. lacs.
Can you check the chapter on turnover and audit. Have explained there in detail.
Hi team. Did we just lost another feature i.e. Tax Harvest with the launch of “interoperability framework” ? Waiting impatiently for the reply.
Thanks
hmm.. yeah, you will not be able to buy on one and sell on another exchange to show it as an exit anymore. You will have to wait for one day after selling to buy the stock back again.
क्या इंट्रा डे trading जो margen लेकर की गई है
1 क्या total turnover पर tax देना होगा
2 क्या only profit पर tax देना होगा loss पर नहीँ।
Tax is not on the turnover, it is on the net profits only. Turnover is to determine if you need a tax audit or not.
Hi,
Whether tax audit required in foll0wing case:
Total trading turnover – more than 1 crore in FY 15-16, but incurred loss in trading.
Also, total income in same year is less than 2.00 Lakhs .
Is tax audit required?
Also – as a valued added service , can Zerodha provide services of tax consultants to prepare file returns of traders?
Since turnover is more, yeah best to get it audited.
My Salary is – Rs. 815880/-
Short term capital gains from deliver based equity – Rs. 26666/-
Profits from F&O trading – Rs. 420923/-
Total income (salary + FNO profit) – Rs. 1236803/-
Hence tax – Rs. 196041/-
Tax on short term capital gain -Rs. 4000/-
Hence my total tax stands at Rs. 200041/-
TDS paid – Rs. 90822/-
So my tax blance is Rs. 109219/-
I haven’t paid any advance tax so far. So can you please help me to calculate the penalty(12%) amount for this.Is it simply 12% of Rs. 109219 or not?
Krish, didn’t want to complicate the chapter, here is how interest is calculated for non-payment of advance tax.
In your case since no advance tax has been paid till now, for April 1st to March 31st 2015 point 3 below is applicable (234C) and from April 1st this year till you pay the taxes point 2 (234 B) is applicable .
i) INTEREST U/S 234A: For late or non furnishing of return, simple interest @ 1% for every month or part thereof from the due date of filing of return to the date of furnishing of return, on the tax as determined u/s 143(1) or on regular assessment as reduced by TDS/advance tax paid or tax reliefs, if any, under Double Tax Avoidance Agreements with foreign countries.
(ii) INTEREST U/S 234B: For short fall in payment of advance tax by more than 10%, simple interest @ 1% per month or part thereof is chargeable from 1st April of the assessment year to the date of processing u/s 143(1) or to the date of completion of regular assessment, on the tax as determined u/s 143(1) or on regular assessment less advance tax paid/ TDS or tax reliefs, if any, under Double Tax Avoidance Agreements with foreign countries.
(iii) INTEREST U/S 234C: For deferment of advance tax. If advance tax paid by 15th September is less than 30% of advance tax payable, simple interest @ 1% is payable for three months on tax determined on returned income as reduced by TDS/TCS/Amount of advance tax already paid or tax relief, if any, under Double Tax Avoidance Agreement with forgiving contribution. Similarly, if amount of tax paid on or before 15th December is less than 60% of tax due on returned income, interest @ 1% per month is to be charged for 3 months on the amount stated as above. Again, if the advance tax paid by 15th March is less than tax due on returned income, interest @ 1% per month on the shortfall is to be charged for one month.
(iv) INTEREST U/S 234D: Interest @ 0.5% is levied under this Section when any refund is granted to the assessee u/s 143(1) and on regular assessment it is found that either no refund is due or the amount already refunded exceeds the refund determined on regular assessment. The said interest is levied @ 0.5% on the whole or excess amount so refunded for every month or part thereof from the date of grant of refund to the date of such regular assessment.
Hey Krish, sorry if I suddenly sounded like a chartered accountant putting up this section of the act.. 🙂
For advance tax not paid between April 1st 2014 to March 31st 2015, 3.7% of the tax balance will be the interest. After March 31st to till you pay, interest will be at 1% per month.
Hope this helps.
Hi Nithin, can a person pay tax on his business income from F&O at the end of two years with penalty although filing IT4 each year? By doing so, people can have a kind of loan at 12% from IT department which otherwise would have gone in income tax.
Vishal, the penalty can be paid, but that will be black mark on your ITR. Also if you don’t file your ITR on time, you can’t carry forward your trading losses or net it off against other business gains.
Hi,
I have gone through your article about taxation. It’s really wonderful article for beginners like me. It has cleared many concepts.
Also, I checked ‘Q’ and my profit (intra day and short term equity) and turnover for the same. It looks like from the statistics, I need audit as my turnover is less than 1 crore and profit is around 6% of turnover. Can Zerodha provide any support for audit, CA? Further, if I look at the stats, I have got return of around 36% on the invested amount (here I calculate profit as, if I have invested Rs. 100 in stocks, I got Rs 136 now, which according to definition of turnover comes around 26% (36*100/136)). Even if this return/profit(36%) is greater than 8%, according to definition of turnover, it’s merely coming as 6%. In such case, what advise would you give to beginners like me? Or, do we always have to keep in mind the 8% figure before selling the stocks?
I am salaried employee and I have been filling ITR1 form for last 2 years. I could find ITR4S form but not ITR4 form in my online account of IT filing. You have mentioned to use ITR4. WHat should I do in this case?
There are new ITR forms being put up this year, ITR4 is still not out, should be available in the next few days.
You will need to use ITR4 if you have done F&O trading. In ITR 4, if your profit is shown less than 8% of turnover, you will not be able to submit ITR forms as a no audit case. That 8% logic is already pre-coded in ITR4. Audit requirement is based on turnover and not really on how much profit you earned.
Hi Nithin,
Thanks for your reply for my previous post.
You said that “Audit requirement is based on turnover and not really on how much profit you earned.” My turnover is less than Rs. 1 Crore and profit is less than 6% of turnover.(These numbers are from Q tool.) In that case do I need audit? If yes, do you provide any support for audit/CA?
I have not done F/O trading, in that case which form should I use?
Omkar, currently not providing any CA support from Zerodha. If you are in Bangalore you can contact Taxiq.in.
If no F&O trading and no intraday equity trading, and only equity delivery based or capital gains, then no need of an audit irrespective of turnover. You can use ITR2 in this case.
If you have done intraday equity trading, then you have to show this as speculative business income and you will require ITR 4 and an audit.
Hi.. My profit is less than 8% and my turnover is less than 1cr
And my total income is less than 2.5L.
Do I need an audit? I need to file for a refund as TDS@10% . I’m a professional.
No need of an audit. You can file for your refund as well.
In this Case, Which form do i file?ITR-3 or ITR-2
Hello Sir,
Just like Jeyashankar B in above comment,
(Here I am talking about, FY 17-18, from 1st April 2017 to 31st Mar 2018 ONLY, After 31st Mar 2018, my turnover has drastically increased as before I was only checking the market out. Since I was new to trading.)
I do ONLY EQUITY.
I have small turnover below 1lkh.
I have really small losses in STCG & Intraday.
I have holdings as LTCG & Mutual Funds.
I fall in the below 2.5lkh income slab.
I don’t need to pay tax.
BUT I want to file an ITR3 and declare my losses, claim business related expenditure etc.
Question. Do I have to get audited?
It’ll cost me around 7k. Then after adding CA my small losses will become big losses.
Thank you.
Not required as your total income is below 2.5lks
Hi Nithin,
from last november 2014, my turnover is more then 3 crores and overall I have incurred a total loss upto 5 lakhs. I did a lot of intraday trades and no longterm investment. do I incur any penalty for non-declarations? what all should I send to the CA? Just the profit and loss statment from start of november until now?
Regards,
Praveen
Sambu, since you have incurred a loss there is no advance tax liability and hence no interest/penalty. You can file your returns before Sept 30th, and yes P&L statement would be enough from November till March 31st 2015. If you are trading at Zerodha send the tax P&L statement and also the turnover statement.
hello,
if my salary is 1,80,000 PA
and my short term capital gain for the Period (14-15) is Rs. 242 & for Period (13-14) is Rs. 822 that means i have to pay short term capital gain tax Rs. 159.61 my employer deduct TDS from my salary. should i have to Fill ITR 2 Form.
Yes Vishal, ITR2 is quite a simple form.
Sir , How turnover calculated , i m govt employee under trainee presently my annual income is only Rs 1,20000 , i started intraday from jan 2015 onwards on margin basis and presently up to july 2015 i m in net 23000 loss …so i need to pay any tax etc plz reply…..second can govt employee do intraday/trading or not ?? my total buying amount is around 2 crore and selling also around 2 crore..and my net PnL is -23000 i have done only intraday by margin money and invested only 23000 rs…thanx
Turnover is not buying/selling value, check this chapter to understand more.
It is best to find out from your department if you are allowed to trade or not.
If you have made a loss, of course no tax to be paid. Also your annual income is also under minimum tax slab, so there is no tax you have to pay.
Thanx
Dear Nithin,
I am new in share market. I m salaried and annual income is 8 lac. I have started intraday trading just few days ago. I have traded for approx 5 cr in these days as intraday. Total loss 50000/- and total profit 40000/-. What should I do now? Is audit required? And what taxes should I pay as income tax…… PSE help me out…..
Taxes are only if you make profits. No taxes on losses. You can declare your loss and carry forward to the next 8 years using ITR3 form. If you make profits in the future, you can setoff against this losses and avoid paying taxes. Turnover is not trading turnover, check ou the chapter on turnover.
Hi Nithin,
I did lot of intraday and short term trading and made net loss of 4,14,000rs…and I don’t have any other source of income…My turnover is more than 1 crore..
1)is audit required in my case??
2)which itr to be used..ITR4 or ITR4S ??
3)can I add my trading expense say about 36000rs and carry forward total loss of Rs 4,50,000 ??
4)if audit is not required,can I fill my return by myself??
Thanks
1. No since you have no taxes to pay.
2. ITR 4
3. Yes
4. Audit required.you could fill your own returns and have it audited by a CA.
In my case,as i did short term and intraday…I treat myself as trader.But in current F.Y. I’m not doing active trading,got converted into long term and short term investments…
1)so can I treat myself as investor for the current F.Y. 15-16
2)can I net off my business losses in 14-15 if i get short term and long term profit in 15-16??
Hi Sir, for AY 2017-18 it looks like there is no ITR 4. There is only ITR 3 and ITR 4S available. my income is only from Trading. Turnover is less than 1 crore and am in loss of 1.5 laks and no other income and no tax to be paid. Please advice should i use ITR 3 or ITR 4S. Thanks.
ITR 3
Please refer to the following:-
http://taxguru.in/income-tax/loss-return-turnover-1-croreno-audit-44ab.html
It says “THERE IS NO NEED TO GET AUDIT DONE IF YOU HAVE MADE A LOSS IN NON SPECULATIVE TRADING BUSINESS” ..
Please give your views.
Regards
Where is ITR 4?
Not available online. 🙁
Yeah, we are all waiting for it. 🙂
Raj, like we have concurred in this article, audit is not required if your total income (trading + everything else) is less than minimum income tax slab of Rs 2.5lks. If you have no tax liability, there is no need of audit.
In your chapter on squaring off and settling call options, you had mentioned in the comments section that squaring off before the date of expiry is beneficial from a taxation point of view as opposed to waiting till the expiry of the call option. What is the tax benefit? Thanks a lot for Zerodha varsity. Without Zerodha varsity, I would not have entered the stock market in the first place.
I guess what Karthik was referring to by taxation is STT (security transaction tax). STT on squared off option is 0.017% on sell side of only the premium value. STT on expired in the money options is 0.125% of the entire contract value, which can be quite high. Check this blogpost, explains about the same.
Thank you Nithin! This information is vital to options buying! Maybe Karthik can include this in the main body of his articles in the call buying and put buying chapters, as this is so important. Thanks a lot to both of you, as usual.
Hi I had bought IndusInd Bank shares in IPO few years back, they were in physical form. In December 2014 I got them converted into Demat form and sold of few of them. The Gains relaized are Long Term Gains, but if we look from my Demat account it shows Short term gain, has the Shares were not present in my Demat account before Dec 2014 and were sold off within few days after they were Dematrialized. Do advise whether they would be LTCG / STCG ?
It will be LTCG itself.
Hi I had physical shares in my late Fathers name, they were with him for few Years. After his demise I have got them Dematrialized into my Demat Account. Now if I Sell them, would I have to show them has LTCG / STCG ? They were part of Inheritance from my Dad, how would I show them in my Tax returns ? Please do advise.
Nilesh, again LTCG, so no taxes on any gain.
Hi…
I trade only F&O and trading income is my sole source of income while I have an office for a trading purpose with 3 employees resulting in an annual expense of Rs.900,000 ( which includes rent, power, internet, salary ect)
If My 10lk trading account become 25lks at the end of financial year then how much tax I will be Paying??
Thanks
If you make 15lks profit, Rs 9lks is your cost. Then you would have made Rs 6lks net profit. Upto Rs 2.5lks no tax, 2.5 to 5lks 10 % so 25k, 5lks to 6lks 20% so 20k. You will have to pay Rs 45000 in taxes.
Hi thanks for the reply.. can I adjust my STT which I already paid, against that 45000 tax ?
No. Your Rs 9lks cost, I guess already includes STT. STT can be shown as an expense, but has nothing to do with your income tax liability.
Good one, it helps all those, who see trading F&O as i of venture , on there own to earn decently
Hi, For the financial Year 2013-14 I have incurred a loss of 5,75,000 in Non Speculative Income. Also I do have Salary Income & Rental Income. Whether I can declare my Loss in this Ass. Year 2015-16 and set off against the forthcoming Ass. Years. Also pls. let me know whether I am subjected to Audit
Losses can be carried forward only if filed on time. So you can revise your 13/14 returns, but you cannot get the benefit of carrying forward your losses. You will need the books to be audited if your total income/profit for the year is over 2.5lks (from all sources), but non-spec business income is less than 8% of turnover. Do check out the chapter on Turnover.
Hello, I have Recived Noties — Non Filling of Income Tax return ..
FINANCIAL YEAR 2012-13—- Contract of Rs. 10,00,000/- or more in the Commodities Exchange in CIB-502. He never filed return of income. Now what ????
Unfortunately the returns for Year 2012/13 can’t be filed now. You would have to just meet the income tax officer, and take it forward from there. There definitely would be a penalty component on any tax not declared/filed.
Sir, when we are declaring profits of mutual funds or equity delivery as business income; we still have to mention about that under capital gains head in itr4 right ?
(Zerodha Mumbai office don’t reply to emails ? had enquired abt account opening)
Thanks.
If you are showing them as business income, it shouldn’t be shown as capital gains. It should be treated as business income itself. Checking with the Mumbai team. Best way would be to leave your number here: https://zerodha.com/open-account
I have some speculation business gain during last year. I will use ITR 4 . Please tell me about following info in ITR……..
1. what should be my nature of business?
2. Where exactly shall I show my speculation gains ? … I could not find place in P&l sheet
3. I have pension income – do I need to give employer name , address etc.?
4. in sch S – where exactly I should put my pension amount? at gross salary row or somewhere else?
Please advice at early date so that return can be filed in time
Thanks in advance
1. Nature of business can be , Trading-Others (Code: 0204).
2. Schedule BP, point 2a.
3. Yes
4. Pension will come under the salary head itself. So Point 1 in Schedule S.
Hi Nitin, I got Rental Income =517200, Fixed Deposit Interest income = 162614, Non Speculative Loss = 74584, Speculative Loss = 11018. Long term Capital Gain = 240000. Have invested in PPF = 100000. Can you please help me in computing my Tax Liability ?
Nilesh, don’t want to get into calculating exact tax liability, best to speak to a CA. Looks like you have around 7lks of business income, 75k of speculative loss, so around 6.25 lks. LTCG is exempt from taxes. Tax around 10% or 25k for 2.5 to 5lk, 20% or 25k between 5lks to 6.25lk. So around 50k. But since you have invested in PPF, it will be lower than this.
Hi Nitin, Do I need to consider short term trades as Speculative / Non Speculative ? I am planning to show Intraday as Speculative, and F&O trades as Non Speculative. Please advice.
Check the first chapter on how to classify yourself. Short term equity trades if the frequency is high, it can be shown as non-speculative, otherwise as STCG.
Hey Nithin,
Thanks for putting up this page. As per the instructions above, I have to get my F&O and Short term trading statements audited. What documents do I need to get my trading audited and where can I download them from the backoffice? I have seen the facility of Tax PnL in the Q Backoffice, but I’m not able to download them. Please help.
Thanks.
Regards,
—
Vishal
Vishal, there is an excel download on Q for Tax P&L, if it is not working can u send an email to [email protected] (make sure you are entering financial year 2014-15). Also check this link: http://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/ for all that you need to take to a CA for an audit.
Hi, I have done delivery based trading in FY 2014-15 in which I have about Rs.2,00,000/- loss. My frequency and no. of shares bought is pretty high. Hi I also done speculative intraday trading in which my loss is Rs. 4,78,000/-. My income for salary is Rs. 9,00,000/-. Now I went to a CA and he is telling me that audit is not applicable to me as delivery based trading done by me is investment. My turnover in delivery based trading is 95 lacs and for intraday trading is 9 lacs. What should I do?
Ankit, Intraday trading is treated as speculative business income. So if you are being 100% compliant, since intraday income (loss of 4.78lks) is less than 8% of business turnover, and you fall in the tax bracket, audit will be required.
Is there a limit on rental expense? Sec 80gg says max Rs. 2000 pm can be deducted. I stay in a rented appartment with family, but one room which owner has given me separately for 4500 pm. Agreement and receipts are there. So can 4500 pm be shown as expense. I am self employed. So no hra. Please advice
Hi, I am full time trader in F&O segment, doing Intraday/Short term started from 1 July 2015..My turnover is more than 1 CR and profit is around 1%..Should i file tax this year or next year? Do i need to pay advance tax? Does this income under business income since i don’t have anyother income?
All filing of returns for the period April 1st 2015 to March 31st 2016 will have to be done next year. Yes, advance tax will also need to be paid. Do read through the other chapters as well.
Hi Nithin ,
I have done few trades and my total turnover fro FY 14-15 may be more then 1 Cr but my income from the same is less then 2.5 Lacks.In that case may i need to file normal ITR or Audited ITR ?
Check this chapter: http://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/. You will need it to be audited if you have any tax liability (i.e total income from all sources, including salary, is more than 2.5lks).
Hello Nithin,
I have recently completed my MBA, prior to which I had worked and filed my returns. During the past year I had no income. I did some trading and have losses of around 50000. Do I still have to file returns if I had taken a year of education break? Can I show these losses for next assessment year if I do not file returns this year?
Arijit, you are not forced to file ITR, but I think it is best to do. There are many who have received notices this year for not filing ITR in 2012/13 even if they hadn’t made profits. In such a case, you will have to unnecessarily take the effort of explaining the ITO.
Thanks Nithin. Got another question. If we have missed filing returns for a year, can we file it in the subsequent year?
Yes you can. If there is any tax due which you haven’t paid, you would have to pay interest for the time you haven’t paid as penalty for delayed filing.
Hello,
I am filing ITR 4 for the first time and have some confusions. Really appreciate if you can help me with this. I have below income.
Salary income
Intraday loss of 1.1L
expenses for doing trading 26K
(Expenses are for laptop cost/depreciation, electricity, internet connection).
1) Salary –
I have entered salary info in “Schedule S” along with TDS details in TDS sheet. Is that a right place?
2)Intraday loss
I have entered in “Schedule BP” (Item 39). Is that a right place?
3)Other expenses
I have entered in “Schedule BP” (Item 39), I summed this amount with intraday loss and entered as 1.36L. Is that a right place to add?
Also, is there a place where I can show split up of other expenses?
4) Is it possible to net off 26K against my salary income.
Please let me know.
Thank you,
Manju
1. Yes
2/3. 2a/2b is where you enter net profit/loss. In line 39, you can mention any specific expense to your intraday trading which is not on your P&L.
4. NO
Thank you … just done with e-filing 🙂
Hi Nithin,
I got a notice from IT that my return related to intraday loss carry forward is incorrect. Please check the attachment for exact note from IT department.
Below is what I updated in the ITR-4 xls file:
Profit and Loss sheet: In Section 53c, entered expense total as 1.1L (not filled any other cells in that sheet)
Scheduled BO sheet:
In section A.1.2a, entered expense total as -1.1L
In section B.39, entered other expense as 26K
Highly appreciate if you can give some suggestion to correct this error.
Thank you
Manju
Check this chapter: http://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/, this is because you haven’t gotten your returns audited by an accountant.
hi nitin,
right now iam not working from 20 march 2015 but i am done some intrady &delivery trading in cash segement from 25 april 2015.either iam not salaried person and also self employed/business. can i file income tax return for 2015-2016 & what be the head. when i filed income tax return( what be the percentage)
Mayur all income generated from April 1st 2015 has to be filed only by next year July. Currently you have to file only for the time period between April 1st 2014 to March 31st 2015. Intraday trading is speculative business, delivery is capital gains, u will need to use ITR4. Do read through all the chapters of this module.
hi nitin,
if i am not salaried person so what be the head of my income from shares &what is the percentage i have to pay the tax
Mayur, can you go through all the chapters in this module: http://zerodha.com/varsity/module/markets-and-taxation/, everything explained.
Now my CA has realised that audit is required. But he is still saying that my loss of Rs. 2,00,000/- in delivery based trading would be taken as investment loss and not business loss. What should I do?
Ankit check the first chapter on classifying yourself, if you consider delivery based trading as a business u can add it to business loss. If you consider them as investments, it will be treated as capital loss/investment loss. This classification has to be done by you/your CA. The thing to remember is to continue same classification next year as well, there has to be consistency in how you classify yourself.
I have delivery based trading with high frequency and consider it to be business loss. But CA is simply classifying delivery based as investment. My question is it going to create any problems?
Also I left my job last year. So in this year my income will be only due to trading i.e business income.
Ankit, best to reason this out and go with what ur CA says. If it is really high frequency, it is better to show as a business income instead of capital gains. But since there is no definition from the IT department on what is higher frequency, so it should be alright.
Dear Nitin,
I am a Insurance advisor(self employed) and having commission income(4,67,000) and I am a regular F&O trader in zerodha, Now for FY 2014-15 I have incurred loss of 1.5 Lakhs and my total turnover as per p&l statement is 14 lakhs. I want to know which ITR form should I use, Does tax audit required? and I want to carry forward the loss. As I am planning to declare the loss for the first time. I tried contacting many CAs and other friends. But unable to get the complete clarity. As tomorrow is last date for filing and in case of loss carry forward. Kindly provide me suitable solution ASAP.
I have no other income other than trading income I do both F&O trades and delivery based trades in cash segment. I understand I have to prepare a p&l a/c and balance sheet. i want to know how to calculate net sales and purchase value for feeding in the ITR4. I have done only option trading. Does STT and brokerage and other charges which are charged on a transaction have to reduced from the transaction value to arrive at sale and purchase price. I have incurred a loss of around 3 lac Rs and have no other income except rental and interest income from FDR’s and is less than the taxable income of 2.5 lacs. please reply ASAP as today is the last date.
Lalit, the total gross profits can be shown as Receipts and Losses as Sales on ITR4. Gross profits + losses = gross loss of Rs 3lks for the year. All STT, Brokerage etc can be shown as expenses. So your net profit/loss ITR4 will automatically calculate. Maybe it will be good for u to meet a CA and take his help to fill the ITR4 form.
Hi Nitin,
For FY 2015-15, I have a salary of 260,000 and Loss of 360,000 in FNO with turnover Rs. 39,28,000. Do I need to file audited return? I have spoke with many CAs and everybody is giving diferent explanation.
It’d be great, if you name any good CA in Bangalore who has deep understanding of stock market.
Check out http://www.taxiq.in, they are from Blore. In your case it is quite tricky, if you have no income tax to be paid for last year, then no audit is required. Income tax slabs come into play for salary above 2.5lks, u r just over it. Do speak to the taxiq team, or consult any other CA.
How about commodities do they come under speculative or non speculative trades.
While going through MCX profit & loss account i have net values i.e profit values & loss values.Adding profit values and loss values do i get my turn over.
Commodities is non-speculative. The chapter on turnover explains how to calculate.
a house wife, toal 5 laks loss in Futures and options, she has no any income, which itr form she can use, and she can carry forword losses for next year
ITR4
Hi, my CA has quoted me a price of Rs. 21000 for the audit. It includes the price to get a digital signature for me. Is the price reasonable ?
Digital signature will cost you between Rs 1000 to Rs 2000. Choosing a CA is like choosing an architect/lawyer/doctor, nothing is high or low. It is a little higher than average, but if he is doing a good job, it isn’t.
Hi Nithin
I have not made any profit after 1 April 2015. So, I don’t have any advance tax liability for AY 2016-17. Shall I still fill the Challan 280 before 15 S2p 2015?
Thanks
You don’t need to pay any advance tax.
Thanks Nithin!
i got toal amount of rs. 30 lacs for the financial year 2014-2015 as a professional fees.they have given me form 16 a and they deducted toal amount of rs 300000, during 2014-2015 i book a loss of rs. 1450000. now how much tax i have to pay more. sanjeev mohanty
SIR SUPPOSE I HAVE INVESTED IN STOCKS OF RS.12 LACS IN FINANCIAL YEAR 2015-2016, AND I HAVE DECEIDED TO SELL MY HOLDING IN 2020, THEN I HAVE TO SHOW THESE ON ITR OR NOT,AND THE FORM I MUST HAVE TO USE AT THIS SITUATION
Yes, you will have to show this investment. You can use ITR2 for this.
Dear Nithin
Damn confused by my tax audit requirements . Pls clarify whether i need an audit or not .
1. I have a salary income of 2,40,000.
2. Int income of around 5000
3. F&O loss of around 6,00,000. ( Turnover over 1 cr. )
Pls help me out .
thnx.
Also I have a LIC prem of 25000 & mediclaim policy with 5000 prem . So net deductable under 80C & 80D come to 30000.
Since your total income is less than Rs 2.5lks, there is no tax you have to pay. Since there is no tax to be paid, no audit is required. Do speak to a CA once.
thnx for ur reply nithin. Just 1 more query . Can u help me out with the ITR form no i am supposed to file my return in this case ? my accountant told me to file in ITR3 and book losses from F&O trading . But i cant find any option in ITR3 to state my losses . Do i need to file in ITR-4 ?
Assume a situation where in there is profit from F&O and Turnover is more than 1 Crore and but actual profit received by trader is less than 8% of Turnover. Suppose audit is also done then and found that actual profit is less than 8% of Turnover then how much tax to be paid in such case.
Say for example Turnover is 2 Crore and as per that 8% of Turnover which is 16 Lakh is considered as profit by IT Dept and on that at the rate of 30.09% the Tax works out to be 4,81,440. Now assume that Trader has actually received only 4 Lakh as Actual Profit in his hands after deducting say other expenses like Trading fees etc. Now if Trader goes thru Audit thru CA and Auditor also says same 4 Lakh as the actual profit then whether trader now can pay tax on 4 Lakh at the rate of 30.09% which works to be 1,20,360 or still have pay minimum tax of 4,81,440 calculated on the basis of Turnover. Basically want to know whether tax paid will be minimum of Tax on Actual profit and tax amt as per IT rule of tax on 8% of Turnover. Please clarify on this. Audit is fine but will that help here in this case to pay on tax on Actual profit with the audit. Because in this case say if we IT way calculation Tax would be more than actual profit received in the hand of Trader.
Another scenario is if the Profit is more than IT dept calculation of 8% of Turnover then with audit whether tax to be paid on Actual profit or on 8% of Turnover in this case. What should be way in the case max of these two or max of 8% of turnover please clarify. In this case consider Actual Profit of say 30 Lakhs so whether tax will be on 30 Lakhs or on 16 Lakhs (8% of Turn over of 2 Crore). Please clarify
Also mention whether CA fees can also be shown as deduction for the Profit Calculation
hmm.. I am not able to get what you are trying to ask. Can you go through all the chapters, we have one chapter on turnover and audit. Turnover calculation is only to determine if you need an audit or not. How much tax you have to pay is based on the income tax slab you fall in. Yes CA fees can be shown as deduction.
Also clarify when audit is done who has to file the return for the trader ? whether CA need to file Income tax return along with Audit report upload or CA will only upload Audit report and Trader has to file the return after CA uploads the Audit report. Please clarify.
I have another query whether advance tax payment is applicable for F&O profits received and is it due every Qtr during the financial year. What happens if there is profit in first 3 qtrs and loss in Qtr 4 and overall there is loss in the FY year at the end of the FY year. If advance tax is paid for first 3 qtrs say and in the 4th Qtr loss is more than profit of Previous 3 Qtrs whether IT Dept will refund the advances paid as there is loss or will adjust it for next financial year . how does Advance tax payment in case of F&O Profits. If advance Tax has to be paid then what form to be used for payment .
Your CA will file your returns along with audit. Yes advance tax is applicable on F&O profits received. If you end up paying tax and there is a loss, you can get a tax refund. Check section 5.7 in the above chapter, you can see the link to the form to pay advance tax.
Sir, Could you please tell me if I am classified as trader then I have to pay tax for long term (held for more than 1 year) capital gains on stock trading?
If you have only capital gains, no you are not a trader.
No Sir, I have both gains from both long term (more than 365 days) and also short term delivery based (more than 1 day but less than 365 days). my turnover for long and short term put together might be 2 cr. So I think I would be classified trader. So which I have to pay tax on long term capital gains also? Moreover I am a salaried person.
Hmm.. this is for you to decide. Check this module. I think you can declare yourself as an investor itself for both short/long term holding trades.
Hi Nitin thanks, could you please suggest me a good CA who can take care of my accounting and audit needs (if required). I want to do trading/investing on large scale but hesitate due to these taxation issues. my emails id is [email protected]
Saurabh, best to find someone in your city.
I am in Bangalore. Thanks.
I have a loss of 5 lakhs in derivatives and I am getting audit done. But I also happen to be a working professional and been filing only ITR 1 and 2 till this time. This time I am filing ITR 4. Questions – a)Any consequence of filing ITR 4 viz a viz with my employment as they would not know about my trading. b) For consequent years also should I continue to file ITR 4 even if I have discontinued doing trading?
Thanks for this much needed information in your website else it is difficult since most of the CA’s also seem to be unaware of sections, turnover calculations and stuff.
Ur employer need not know of what ITR form you are using. If you have stopped business (in this case trading), you don’t need to use ITR4 anymore.
I am an agriculturist. my only taxable income is stock market. total income in stocks (including equity intra day,short term investment, long term investment) is nearly 20,000 per year. does I have to pay tax since my total income did not cross even 1 lac
No taxes unless the income is above 2.5lks.
Respected Sir,
I am trading in FnO, as on today for this financial year my gain is Rs. 9 lakhs 35 thousand.
I have invested Rs 17 lakhs in FD at the rate of 8.25 % interest for 4 years from 5th August, 2015. I have not given form 15g to the bank.
My loss carried forward from the previous year is Rs. 1 lakh 30 thousand.
My saving bank interest for the current year will be Rs 10 thousand.
I don’t have any other source of income or salary.
I have not paid any advance tax for this financial year and now I want to pay advance tax by 10th of October, 2015. Please let me know what amount I have to pay with penalty.
Thanking You.
Until october, your FD income will probably be around 1lk, you have 9.3lks in profit, 1.3 in losses carried forward. So total around 9lks net income for the year until now. How much you want to pay as advance tax will depend on you, since this is business of trading the year could end up either above this 9lks or below. So I think it is best to be conservative, and pay a small amount as tax. Probably around Rs 50,000. Best to consult a CA for all of this.
Thank You Sir for your quick reply.
Sir,
i want to know if i don’t earn any other income and earn STCG of 2.4 lacs in a year Less than 2.5 lacks of income exemption limit then do i still have to pay tax at 15% of transaction of shares ?
No you don’t. You have to pay taxes only when your net income is over 2.5lks.
Hi Nitin ….. Great thanks and big applauds for your commendable work …. can u please help me out …. I wanted to know that if my salary is less than 2.5 lacs and my turnover is 2.03 car then is audit a mandate in my case ….. break up : equity short term gain 3.8 lacs , intraday loss : 1.5 lacs , Fno loss : .5lacs …. for turnover calculation I have added all 3 turnovers ….. will be eagerly waiting for your reply
Short term can be shown as capital gains, need not be used for turnover calculation. You can take an aggressive approach when declaring turnover to show lesser and avoid audit. But, if you have done quite a bit of turnover, I’d say it is best to get audited.
Sir,thanks for the previous answer,
sir i want to know are there any kind of restrictions regarding selling of shares bought under IPO in India ,like can you sell them within one year ? And if there are any kind of restrictions or rules which brokerage houses use to prevent trading of IPO shares or from companies in India?
like i come to know that some brokerage houses don’t let you invest in IPO again for some time if you buy and sell IPO shares soon after they are listed .
There are no such restrictions on IPO, you can sell them as soon as it lists.
I have question on CIB-410 notice.
I read that CIB-410 notice will be issued if “Deposit in cash aggregating Rs 2,00,000 or more with a banking company” and there was no returns filled in the same financial year.
This 2lacs limit is applicable for a day or for a financial year?
It is applicable per financial year. The idea being, if a person has received so much cash, he should definitely have income over 2.5lks per year. If someone is not filing, he is being non-compliant.
Dear Nitin,
I have received a notice from IT department for not filing the returns for the assessment year 2014-2015.
In the more information tab, it is mentioned STT-03 ( sale of equity shares settled without actual delivery – for the financial year 2013-2014 )
during financial year 2013 – 2014, i was salaried ( 3.7 lakhs per annum ) and the TDS has been paid for this. I have made only 2 intraday trades in equities during this period with a loss of 64 Rs. Total purchase and sell value is less than 2000 Rs.( it was just experimental)
Is there any way to avoid auditing for these 2 trades.
If i not disclose this loss, will i be scruitinized ? what would be your advise, please help
Regards
Sreejith
Sreejith, why don’t you just declare a profit of 8% of Rs 2000, which is Rs 160 as profit and pay tax on it. You will have to use ITR4, and no audit will be required.
Thanks Nitin.
Is it possible to show 8% of the total turn over in ITR – 4 if we have done trades in intraday equity and F&O and suffered a loss, to avoid the audit.
Also i would like to know what will be a book of account with regard to trading. What should be the entries in it ? Will the zerodha statement suffice , or we need to maintain a separate one
Regards
Sreejith
IT department will have a problem if you declare less tax (avoid tax), no one has a problem if you pay tax :). So yeah, you can declare 8% of turnover as profit and pay tax on it and get away from need of an audit. With regards to trading, yeah the P&L statement should suffice.
Nithin Sir,
Thanks for your advice. my situation is similar to Sreejith’s (above). but how can we show profit as 8% if we incurred loss from intrday? i mean if we have to provide tax P&L report, then that report shows the loss right? or can we edit the tax p&L report? iin my tax p&L report intraday turnover showing as ~1300/- and gross profit ~20/- and total charges ~300/-. please clarify. thank you.
Yeah you can declare profits, even if you don’t have one. The idea is that you are not avoiding paying any taxes by doing this. Best to speak to a CA also.
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I would definitely follow this site.
As u said FNO loss can be C/f and cab aset off with future business income. Can u clarify if past year’s( carried forward) FNO loss can be set off in the flowing 8 years with other income like interest on fixed deposit etc?
The same year it can be setoff against any other business income. But when you carry forward the loss, based on what head (on balance sheet) you carry forward, it can be setoff against profits on the same head in the future years.
Thanks a lot for the reply:),I am sorry, but just to clarify, say I had filled previous year FNO loss as business loss, So i understand that u can surely set off future business profit, but the question is can be set off “OTHER INCOME LIKE fd INTERESTS”. Thanks
Hi
I have started a commission based business and my turn over is 2 to 3 cr monthly but my profits are 30000 per month so how should I show my business returns and turnover in income tax .I even wanted to know this business comes under which business
Reply ASAP
Faisal, the scope of this module is limited to when trading/investing in the stock/commodity/currency markets.
hello sir
as i am salaried person planning to invest in elss mutual fund to save on tax
so my question is
if i invest Rs 30000/- before march, can i get tax benefit up to 03 years as lock in period for the same is 03 yrs i mean can show duduction under sec 80 for
If you invest Rs 30000 this year, you can get benefit of upto this much as deduction before calculating tax. So if your income is Rs 5.3 lks per year, by investing 30k, your taxable income becomes Rs 5lks. So by investing 30,000 you save Rs 6000 which you would have otherwise paid as taxes. This is locked in for 3 years, if you sell before that you loose the benefit that the ELSS gave you.
query regarding interest income of debt. instruments / fixed income instruments .
i am aware interest earned on bank FD is taxable .but
1) what about money earned on corporate bonds , govt. securities in the form of coupon rate ?
2) money earned via discount bonds ?
3) most importantly money made by short term RBI treasury bills, treasury notes etc ?
4) i buy a long-term govt. bond at rs.1000 face value earn first coupon rate of 7% after 6 months , then sell it off in market at lets say at rs.1050 appreciated value after 9 months . what happens in this case ?
thank you
If my annual income is 12 lakh per annum and I earn rs 10/12 laskh in F&O and declare it under non speculative buisness income. so I will have
to pay 15 % tax on F&O profit or tax as per my tax bracket (i.e 30%) ??
Above 10 lks per year the IT slab is at 30%, so you will have to pay according to that.
Hi Nithin Sir,
I do intraday trade (scalping) in Option Premiums…so for it is the only source of earning for me. Is there any procedure to declare it as a business activity or filing ITR 4 is sufficient?? I mean I come to know that Bombay Shop Act is required if you have to run business in Maharashtra. I am also running business but from my home itself and not from any other business place..Do I require to have Bombay Shop Act License to declare my trading activity as a business?
Kindly explain..
ITR4 would mean that it is a business activity. No need of any Shop license for trading stock markets.
Thanks for making me relieved……!!!! One more question Sir…In the evening I always get a message from Zerodha that your total traded value is 4 lakh or 5 lakh…this means soon I am going to cross 1 cr turnover limit….but I am in a loss so far…
so Do I require to conduct audit if my turnover is above 1 cr and I am in a loss…..??
yes even i have this same query .
since we are showing the income & related IT paperwork similar to a salaried person .
i think , the turnover should not matter …. if we start paying CA according to turnover, then there is trouble for us 🙂
there are many websites where salaried people can file returns online for negligible fees …. can traders do the same ?
if i have losses in intraday, F&O and short term delivery and turnover is more than 1 crore then it will be required to fill itr or not. because i have no profit from equity.
If for the year your net income (trading losses + other income) is positive and over Rs 2.5lks, yeah you will have to. I’d suggest if you don’t have, it is best file ITR
query regarding turnover & audit still unanswered .
Sir, I have been trading in Commodities market from last 3 years but unfortunately never filed ITR and now I have received Income tax notice for non filing of ITR I have been constantly having losses in Intraday trading, information is as per CIB 502
It is best to meet a CA to respond to this notice. Since you have made losses, you could send an explanation. The only issue could be if you haven’t gotten your books audited (which is a requirement) if your turnover is above Rs 1 crore or in case if it is lesser than 1cr if profit less than 8% of turnover, and if you have other tax liability. Do read through the entire module, you should get an idea.
I haven’t got my accounts audited, plus I have filed my reply as no taxable income and need more information regarding the code, please help if you can provide more info
I am a Zerodha trader. I made some Equity Mutual Funds investments this financial year and made some profits in F&O. If I sell mutual funds, can I offset Mutual Fund losses against F&O profits?
i am a salaried employee working in private sector . my annual income is 3 laks. i am filing IT return every year by my employer given form 16. i am also doing intraday & delivery based equity trading from last 1 year . my turnover is less than 1 crore and a loss of 3000/- in this duration. now help me know whether i have declare anything to the IT dept if yes than how?
Yes, since you are doing intraday trading, you will need to use ITR4 and declare this. Go through the module, it is explained how you can.
Sir I got a notice from incometax department for not filling of tax I am a trader I have don intrady dilivery and comodity trading and having lose in all so what to do
G I had not filled any itr I am a saleried person
Since you had a loss, that means you didn’t really evade paying any taxes, so you are okay. You will have to go meet the ITO and explain him this. When you meet him, take a copy of your trading ledger, P&L statement, to show the loss that you have incurred. Since exchanges share turnover data with IT department, it is best to always declare.
Dear Sir,
Can we include trading account opening fees amount in business expense when showing trading as business?
Awaiting your reply.
Thank you.
Yes you can.
Dear Sir,
I have loss of 13k in 13-14fy,profit of 57k in 14-15Fy and loss 1.5lacs in 15-16fy and i have no other source of income and not filled ITR.would i file a return?if yes is my book audited?
Thanx in advance
Yes it is best to file returns, you can file delayed returns for FY13/14 and 14/15. For 15/16 you have time till July to file returns. No need of audit since you don’t have any taxes to pay.
My client id is DS7641 zerodha..my query is about itr.i am student.my annual income is below 2.50lakh..i have no other source income..in 2015-16 fy ..my short term trade total turnover is 1,83,524(7000 realized profit)and intraday/speculation trade total turnover is 763.55 as well as realized profit..so do i need itr form or other form???
Dear Sir,
thank you for your amazing articles on trading and taxation, it is a blessing for us.
Sir my query is
I have bought 1 lot of april CE option of nifty in march 2016, if I sell this in april 2016, then
its profit/loss must be included in financial year 2015-2016 OR 2016-2017 ?
its turnover must be included in financial year 2015-2016 OR 2016-2017 ?
the buying amount of the option contract must be added in ledger or not ? if yes, then in financial year 2015-2016 OR 2016-2017 ?
Awaiting your reply.
Thank you.
The best way to do is to MTM all open positions to 31st March, yeah even open option positions. So whatever is the closing price on 31th use that to calculate the profit/loss for 2015/16 and use that price as the starting point for the option position for FY 16/17.
Thank you Sir.
Thanks for the excellent module on taxation. I have one question.
The following two statements appear to contradict each other (apparently).
“Non-speculative losses can be set-off against any other business income except salary income the same year. So they can be set-off against bank interest income, rental income, capital gains, but only in the same year.
You carry forward non-speculative losses to the next 8 years; however do remember carried forward non-speculative losses can be set-off only against any non-speculative gains made in that period.”
The first sentence says, “Same year”. The second statement appears to allow carry-forward. Which means it can be set-off against “same year” as well as “future business gains and capital gains”.
Please guide where I am getting it wrong.
Assuming after offsetting your losses against all other gains this year, you have some losses still pending to be offset. This can be carried forward for the next 8 years, but when you carry forward to the next year or more, it has to be offset against non-speculative gains only.
Got it. Thanks for your response.
Dear Sir,
Whenever I transfer money in Zerodha trading account, Rs 10.31 is deducted as transaction fee. In my Zerodha backoffice, it is shown separately under “Other credits / debits”. Is it ok to add this amount in my expenses towards my profit in trading ?
Awaiting your reply.
Thank you.
Yes, this definitely is an expense. This is payment gateway charges. You can show all other debits as expense.
Thank you Sir.
Hi, my turnover is more than 1 cr, but I have made loss. Do I still have to get my book audited? Awaiting your answer.thank you
Yes.
I have an delivery volume of Rs 1.25 coror and fno rs 50 lakh and intraday nse/bse Rs.50 lakhs I have an beautyparlour
income of Rs 1 lakh in this year I have made and loss in equity deliver 70K, intraday loss nse/bse .5K, fno loss .35 K
net loss of .7+.5+.35=1.55 – 1 beauty parlour income so net profit is .55K so can I go for audit my turnover of delivery will
excedded 1 cr and can I fill itr4s in which date I mean last date. thnaks
You will not be able to file using ITR4S because of those intraday equity trading (speculative, which can’t be shown on ITR4S). So you will need to use ITR4 itself, and yeah best to get an audit done. Like I said, audit is quite a simple task. End of september is usually the last day for people with audit.
thanks a lot, I want to know that turnover in delivery means 1cr buy and 1cr sell or 50lakh buy and 50lakh sell
pl solve my confusion.
If you are showing delivery trades as capital gains, there is no concept of turnover to be calculated. You need to declare turnover only if you declare your delivery trades as a non-speculative business income. In case of delivery, the selling value of all your stocks add upto turnover.
I would like to know if a person earns 4,00,000 rupees from intraday trading and selling stocks (Bought and sold in less than a year) & no
F & O trading. How much tax would the respective person pay?
More specifically does the concerned person pay 10% tax(since the person falls in the (2,50,000-5,00,000) Income Tax slab)
+ 15% tax(flat rate of short term capital gains)
Making the total tax rate 25% [Total Tax = 1,00,000 (25%);Tax = 40,000(10%) + 60,000(15%)]
or
just either 10% income tax or 15% short term capital gains tax? [40,000(10%) or 60,000(15%)]
You pay a maximum of upto 15% on short term capital gains. For intraday trading, you pay according to the tax slab you fall in.
Mr. Nitin Kamath,
I can’t you thank you enough for your wonderful service and I highly praise your dedication and professional approach to your work giving it the highest priority with utmost sincerity. I just hope there are more entrepreneurs like you who possess such great qualities and values which our country urgently needs. Once again thank you for the prompt reply.
I have filled my eretun of F.Y.2015/16 last year , I have an income of rs.230000 per year, I have filled itr4s in that year,i have scnuti in F.Y. 2014/15 this is running now I have to change my 2015/16 fy return becauz I have not giving information regarding
the my stock market business I have go for audit also becz my turnover was mark 1 cr in delivery I have a net loss of 8 lakhs in that year can F.y. 2015/16 return can modify with audit or not what can the easy way pl suggest.
Samir, yes you can modify your IT returns, that will be the best way to take this forward.
Sir, i am an government employee having salary 4.2 lac pa and made a intraday trading loss of amount 2 lac in FY 2015-16 with a turn over more than 20 Crore. how i file it in return and can i carry forward this loss in FY 2016-17
You will have to use ITR4, and yeah you can carry forward the loss. Do read the entire module, everything you need to know is on it.
HI, I have no other income and i am doing intraday trading since May 1st 2016..I would expect that my turnover will cross more than 1 crore but the profit will be less than 1.5 lakhs…
1. I believe, i need not to pay tax as per tax slab
2. No need of audit since it the profit is less than 8%
3. do i need to file ITR
4. If i need to file ITR, what is the form no.
kindly advise.
1. Yes, no tax
2. No audit, because you have no taxes to be paid.
3. It is best to file ITR, because if you don’t chances of IT scrutiny higher.
4. ITR4
Hi Nitin saheb,
Thanks for your help. Now from TAX P&L Statement i see only turnover above 10 lacs. I am sure i dont need any audit for this amount. and i have incurred loss. Which ITR form i have to use..I have given my details below..
INTRADAY/SPECULATIVE PROFIT – ₹-25,897.50
INTRADAY/SPECULATIVE TURNOVER – ₹1,02,056.40
SHORT-TERM PROFIT – ₹-1,614.50
SHORT-TERM TURNOVER – ₹58,363.50
LONG-TERM PROFIT – 0
LONG-TERM TURNOVER – 0
ITR3 (was ITR4 until last year).
Hi,
I have EquityCash-Delivery (Non-speculative) turnover 19 lacs ( sell side ) capital gain of Rs. 62,200
I have no salary income.
Intraday turnover 1.2 Lacs and profit of Rs. 1500.
No F&O Trading done.
My total income coming less than 2.5 Lacs.
Which ITR form should I fill sir. ITR 2 or ITR 4.
Request you to advice.
ITR3
thank you sir,
Do I need to do audit before submit in this case for ITR 3.
sir in which section I should show intraday turnover.
do you have sample ITR 3, can you please give a link if any
Sharath, there is no concept of showing turnover on ITR3. You can show all positive turnover as gross receipts and negative turnover as Gross sales
is taxation there for professional traders? if my profit goes upto 50 lakh per year?
i am curious to know , i am trading with zerodha since few months, but as i am paying sebi charges and all mentioned in my balance sheet, i would still like to know the details of taxation for freelance trader.
Trading is like any other normal business, you have to pay taxes as per the income tax slabs. Do go through the entire module, has everything you need to know.
Hi Nitin,
Many thanks for such a wonderful content. The case studies are clear. Please add a scenario of having no other income other than trading and total income is less than 2.5 lakhs.
I came with that doubt and clarified by the comments. It is better, if it is part of varsity 🙂
Keep rocking.
Also the case of senior citizen, who need not to pay advance tax for STCG and only self assessment tax is required.
Dear Nitin Sir ,
If My Delivery Based trading Turnover is under 10 lacks and non-Delivery Based ( intra-day ) trading Turnover is over 1 crore , sir Should I need ‘ Tax Audit ‘ from CA ?? or just show Speculative Business Income is enough ?
You will need audit. But make sure to read through the entire module to understand what exactly is turnover.
Hi NItin,
I have turnover in FNo below 1 crore and profits less than 8% .
My total income is above 2,50,000 but net taxable income is below 2,50,000/- after dedcutions.
eg
RENTAL INCOME Rs.400000/- deduction 30% so taxable = Rs.280000/-
Long Term Capital gains Rs. 100000/- not taxable.
Short term capital Gains Rs.50,000/-
FNO trading Loss Rs-50000/-
80c benefits Rs 100000/-
Total Income Rs 500000/-
Taxable Income Rs 180000/-
In this case is tax audit applicable.please advise
Not required. But still consult a CA once.
hi, I am doing trading in stck market I have no other business or service my delivery btst volume will 1.10 cr. can I represent it to an non speculative business and I don’t want to go for ca for audit my loss was 80k, I want to file simple itr4s if don’t file return what happen or not audited how it dept can find that my turn over will above 1 cr what will the future implications.
If you are transacting in the markets, it is best to file returns. It will be super simple for IT departments to spot this, since exchange share trade details with IT department. Yeah, you could show this as non-speculative business losses (grey area, since this could also be considered as speculative since you are not taking delivery. But if your broker like Zerodha takes delivery of shares in ur demat and then sells it, it can be considered non-speculative). Yeah, you could use ITR4S, but since you have no other income and just losses, there is no audit required, so best to use ITR4. You can even carry forward this loss.
Hi, I have an business of beauty parlour I have filled simple 4s return during 2013/14 f.y. last week my return was under
scrunity and I have a notice from it dept in which under142(1) they said you have purchased the property during
this year and why not disclosed in the return. what was the complications of this can u gide me my income was 210000
and the property deem was rs 550000 thanks
Reema, the scope of this module is limited to when trading on the markets.
HI Nithin, I have salary income of Rs. 200000 and Professional income of Rs. 20000, I incurred loss in speculative business of Rs 40000 and non Speculative Rs 1,00,000. I have life insurance of Rs. 50000 and NPS Rs. 10,000. If I show loss, will I require to be audited.
Since your total income is below the taxable bracket, no audit will be required.
Sir, I am pensioner having pension income Rs.2,60,000/- Bank Interest Rs.2,45,000/- (Total Rs.5,05,000/-) during last financial year 2015-16 there is loss of Rs.1,17,090/- from FNO Trading and small amount of profit Rs.3800/- from short term/intra day trading (net loss of Rs.1,14,090/- ). The total turnover (both FNO & intraday) is less than Rs.1 Crore ( Rs.11,65,081/-). 8% of total turnover comes to Rs.93,206/- so my total loss (Rs.1,14,090/-) is more then 8% of total turnover . Under Section 44AB of IT Rules written as if turn over is less than Rs.1 cr and profibility is less than 8% of turn over Audit is required. Kindly advice whether (i) Audit is required in this case (ii) ITR-4 can be filled. (iii) Full amount of loss can be deducted from Bank Interest income. Thanks & Regards, Sekhri
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
Dear Nitin,
The entire Varsity concept and execution is extremely helpful. While I’ve not gone through all the modules, the ones that are of interest to me seem to be well laid out and provide a superb base for learning. And of course, the Q&As here answer 99% of the questions that come to one’s mind.
Brilliant initiative – thanks for this. God bless you and your team!
Regards,
Vinayak Parameswaran.
Sir,
My wife’s total salary is 1.4 Lacs per year. But losses in F&O and intraday trade. Please reply
1. Does she have to file income tax return if total turnover is less than 1 crore?
1A. does she have to get the books audit?
2.Does she have to file income tax return if total turnover is more than 1 crore?
2A. Does she have to get the books audit?
thanks
Vishal
1. Yes, best to file ITR4. IT department is sending notices if there is any trading happening and not filing ITR.
1a. Since here salary is not in tax bracket and no taxes to pay, no need of audit.
2. Same as above
2a. Yes
thanks a ton. She did get a notice for 2012-2013. but no clause (act) is written. she was asked to furnish her response in the COMPLIANCE MODULE. Which we did. do we have to meet anybody in the income tax dept also.
Please reply.
Sir,
I am doing day trading and short term trading, and not trading in futures and option, can i display my income under the head “Capital Gain” of ITR ?
Day trading has to be shown under speculative business income on ITR4, short term trading yeah can be as capital gains.
I didn’t understand the examples which you have given in 5.3 and 5.4.i don’t understand how the tax calculations are made.Please help me understand
What didn’t you understand? can you be more specific.
Thanks for very fast reply.Tax slab rate for 2.5l to 5l it’s 15% ,for 5l to to10l it’s 20 % and 10l above its 30% as given in before chapters.But ,I’m required to pay the tax on Rs.600,000 as per the slab rates –
0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 10% – Rs.25,000/-
500,000 – Rs.600,000 : 20% – Rs.20,000/-,
Hence total tax = Rs.25,000 + Rs.20,000 = Rs.45,000/-..how it is calculated. 20% of 5l will be 1 l.so old expln
So yeah, tax is Rs 45,000. What do u not understand about this?
This was example given in 5.4.
Sir, You are doing a great job. Really appreciate it.
I had given money to my wife. And she has used most of it in share trading and incurred loss.
1 . Can show it as loan and file loss in her return or better to show as income from other source and file return accordingly
Thanks
Yep, you can show the money given to your wife as a loan, she can show the losses in her ITR. She can carry forward the losses as well.
Hello Sir,
In the gentlemen’s question above, he wishes to show the money given to her wife as a loan, so as to carry it forward as a loss!
Most probably this money was a form of gift (no offence). By showing it as a loan,
A. Does one escape tax?
B. What I mean to ask is, what would be the benefit(s) of declaring gift as a loan?
Thanks.
A. Loan and gift can be given only once all taxes are paid by the person. So there is no escaping tax.
B. Loan comes with an interest income to the lender. So if the lender is on a lower tax slab than the borrower, potentially some taxes can be saved.
Understood. Thanks.
Sir,
I have done lot of deliveries, so which head mention it in business income or capital gain?
You can mention it in either. CBDT circular this year, has given you the option to choose.
Dear Sir,
Capital gain charged as 15% rate, but what if my total income including capital gain is below tax slab (i. e. 2,50,000)
In that case nothing to pay.
Sir, i am filing ITR 4 as I am an active trader.
I annual income from salary is 12 lacs.
Long term capital gain 68k
Loss from F&o 52k
Do i have to pay tax on long term captain gain also.
Can’t i dedeuct loss of f&o from it
Thanks
No, long term capital gain is exempt from taxes. F&O loss can’t be adjusted with salary, but you can carry forward the loss.
My turnover in intraday trading is less than 1 crore, and i have a loss of 148 rs in trading, do in need to audit or maintain a book of account?
If your total income is over Rs 2.5lks and have some taxes to pay for the year, then yeah an audit is required. If your total profits (trading+salary+others) is less than 2.5lks, no need.
Dear Sir,
Do we need to add expenses like brokarage, internet charges while showing loss in ITR 4.??
Yep
thanks..
Dear nitin ji,
My income from salary is 1000000, lost heavily in intraday trading during Jan to the tune of 10 lakhs, what shall I declare in itr4, I will be filling for the first time, please guide.
In ITR4, declare it as speculative business loss.
Thank you, can I carry forward the losses and how I will be taxed, brief indicative workout please.
Along with the trading loss, you can add all expenses that you incurred while trading, and carry forward it to next 8 years. This loss can be set off against gains in the future. Since you have a business loss, no taxes on this. You will have to pay taxes on your salary income though. Do go through the entire module.
In last financial year(2015-16), my total turnover is 1.6 crore in equity speculative transaction and got profit Rs.20000 andgot loss Rs.55,000. If any audit required in my case or not? I don’t have other income source. Which file I use for income tax return. I really confused.
Since turnover is more than Rs 1 crore, you will need an audit.
Sir,
My wife salary was just 1.2 lacs per year and we do F&O also. in which we have loss. Never filed her ITR.
Now CA has filed my return for 2014-15 (ITR1) and 2016-17(ITR2). and also shown some extra income and filed ITR of gross income as 2.69Lacs for both the yeas. But didn’t give any tax. he says there is addition benefit of 2000 INR for income less than 5/Lac.
What should I do now as now I have to maintain books, he has shown income of more than 2.5 lacs. He is not listening. Should I file my return again in ITR4. or just leave it?
are we in trouble now? please suggest in detail.
Thanks
Vishal
Ideally you should have filed using ITR4 itself. But you are not evading any taxes, so you should be okay. For AY 16/17, if you can rectify your returns, I’d suggest it is best to do so. Also if it is only F&O, you can use ITR4S, no need of audit and all. Check out the chapter on ITR forms.
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Why no audit as gross income is more than 2.5. Pl sir this last query
Check out about ITR4S in this post. ITR4S has been introduced by govt to make life easier for very small businesses, so if your turnover is under Rs 2crores from this year and if your profit is >8% of your turnover, you don’t need an audit. Suggest you to go through the entire module once.
sir,
But her income is less than 8% of the turnover. infact as i mentioned its in loss.
please reply.
regards
ah my bad, didn’t notice. Yeah, you will need to use ITR4 technically and get it audited. But maintaining books and all is quite simple really.
Dear Sir,
How to calculate profit and turnover in the following cases.
Sold LIC 30 APRIl 420Put @6.45 (lOt size 1000) on March 15–Different FY
and square of on 15th April 15 @1. Profit of 5.45. but sold in different FY.
thanks.
You can either MTM this trade to closing price of APRIL420put on 31th March, or disregard this buy trade as part of last FY and consider it only in the FY where you exited.
Hi Nithin,
I am not an employee,
I have agriculture income – 5000/-
Income on savings bank – 12000/-
Interest on Fixed deposits – 9000/-
Dividend income – 160000/-
LTCG – 210000/-
STCG – 7000/-
Income in FnO – 14Lakhs
Interest charges by the broker on F&O leverage taken by me – 2600/-
Other Expenses on F&O Trading (brokerage, STT, stamp duty etc) – 16000/-
My total F&O turn over is – 55Lakhs
No Intraday trading at all.
Now the questions are …
1. Should I use ITR 4 Or ITR 4S is also acceptable ?
2. Will the three days back released govt. relief for “Section 44AD – Income from Business” by paying tax on 8% assumed profit on turnover can be used by me?. (If this is acceptable I can save a lot really). Would you please give a detailed answer to this please….
Thank you.
1. Technically you could use ITR4S and save quite a bit of taxes. But this is a grey area, a loophole of sorts. Best to consult a CA.
2. THis is not three days back, this option has always been there. Check this chapter, I have explained about ITR4S.
Thank you Nithin. 🙂 Your help is timely and awesome as always.
I am a trader. i will buy and sell shares intraday. I am also a zerodha customer. I shifted from other account. Last year i loss 3 laks. How to file the returns. I am salaried employee. is any auditor required. Please suggest me. daily 25 laks turnover will do with shares intraday.
Please advise me how to file incometax.
Chandra, there is no 1 line answer, go through this module, it tells you what you need to do.
I have a net profit of 1.30cr from commodity trading till 15 march I have purchased a land of rs 1.12cr before 31 march how much my tax liability
Do go through the entire module. Land purchase is just an application of income, you don’t get any tax breaks for that. You will have to pay tax as per IT slabs on your Rs 1.3crore.
hi. can u pls let me know what strategies u follow and did u undergo any training for making that kind of profits. Pls do revert back and help me out. My mail id- [email protected]
Hi,
Sir, Last year I have filled ITR1 (Saral) that time I had only salary income. Now I am trading in F&O from Jan-2016
My annual income from salary is 3.8 lacs.
Received PF amount of Previous/Earlier Employer 1.3 lac
Loss from F&O 100k
1) Which ITR form I have to File this Year?
2) Can I adjust my losses or Carry forward
3) Can I Adjust My this Losses with Next Year F&O Profit
Thanks
1. ITR4
2. You can adjust F&O losses only toward other business income/trading gains. You don’t have any, so you can carry forward this to next 8 years and adjust in the future.
3. yep, make sure to file returns on time.
I had 1.5cr income from speculation if I want to audit how much audit fee they may ask me for complete audit
Audit fees including ITR filing might cost upwards of Rs 15,000.
I have two questions if you could kindly clarify-
1. Do intraday share traders need to register for and pay Profession Tax in the state they reside in?
2. IS Current Account necessary?
1. No
2. No
Hi Nithin,
Even if our monthly trading is in lakhs, still we do not need current account ?
Means we are rotating lakhs of rupees between our saving and demat account, how it can be possible because saving account is for savings purpose, even bank gives interest on it.
please clarify…
hmm.. no need of current account.
If my broker is already collecting TDS on STCG (15+Cess%) and non-speculative business income (F&O) (30.9%) at the upper limit for FY17 then still I need to pay advance tax – as its already taken care of the upper limit tax of my income for the year every time I get a profit?
Sai, a broker can’t collect TDS on your behalf. But if he were, then yeah he needs to be paying advance tax on your behalf.
My PIS accounts are with Axis Bank, I am not sure if its collected by the Bank itself. In case if they pay the advance tax, should I be getting a TDS certificate of the same, well before the due date for advance tax?
Ah, you are a NRI. In that case no need to pay advance tax.
Yes! 🙂 Thanks for the quick response.
If i have a loss in intraday trading then,
1) is it necessary to audit it?
2) my total income is under tax limit then it is necessary to file ITR losses (because loss is very small i.e. Rs. 143), and hence i dont want to pay fees for audit it.
1. Check this post.
2. If total income is less than tax limit, no need for audit. Just file ITR4
I am government employee. Is it offence in trading of securities in future and options by government employee by any rule?
Best to find out from the office you work at. It depends on the department you are in.
Sir I am an Private employee and my salary is more than 6Lacs, I have made a profit in FY 15-16 of around 900Rs. I have made a loss from Intraday and Short term trading in FY 16-17 around 11000 so Which ITR should I use for FY 15-16 and FY 16-17. Please guide.
In FY15/16 if these profits are from intraday and short term, use ITR4.
Sir how to pay advance tax in case of set-off the Losses in upcoming Years.
I didn’t get your question. If you have carried forward from previous year, you have to pay advance tax only after setting off losses with profits.
vallabh
sir,
I am a pensioner having net income of rs 2.80lk after 80c and 80d deductions. iam trading in f&o and also intraday. my turnover
is rs4.88lk and LOSS of rs 85000/ . for sr. citizens upto rs 3.00lk is nil. in my case does tax audit is required after taking into consideration my net income and the loss incurred in f&o and intraday. kindly guide
consideration
Not required since there is no tax to be paid.
Kindly tell any well known reasonable basis to allocate common expenditures between speculative & non-speculative incomes like internet exp or rent.
Pujah, whatever you incur when trading can be shown as expense. It could be from the laptop/computer to anything else.
hello nithin,
i have a turnover of 70 lacs and a loss of 10 lacs in F&O
no other income
where in the form (ITR 4) can i put my turnover and losses.
if you could give me the column and line number please?
thanks a lot
Turnover is just for calculation purposes for if you need an audit or no, no need to put it on ITR4. You can show all positive turnovers for the year as purchases/receipts and negative turnover under sales.
Ye,
s but when i am filing under itr 4 could you please tell me in P&L head where & which line should i put positive and negative turnover please?
thanks
Positive turnover under receipts and negative turnover as sales.
Hi Nithin,
I have a loss of almost 150000 in AY 2016-2017, while paying Advance Tax for AY 2017-2018, should i deduct this amount from the Advance Tax Payable to arrive at advance tax payable amount?
Regards,
Madhusudan
Yes you can if the income is under the same head as carry forward loss.
Hi nithin
Just had a doubt and need your answer in yes or no please
I had a turnover of 85lacs
And loss in fno is 8 lacs
Is audit required ?
No other income
Also if you could guide me where will the positive and negative turnover come in itr4
Specific line number please and the schedule name
Would be a great help
Thanks a ton
Audit required if you have other income on which tax has to be paid. If you are someone who has no tax payable for the year (salary+others) no need of audit.
Positive turnover in receipts, negative turnover in sales. We have also started this http://tradetax.in/ if you need help.
Hi nithin
If you could tell me where and which line in itr4
It would be helpful
Thanks
Hi Mr. Nitin. Thanks for a great write up. My question is: If i have an amount of Rs 60,000 as interest from my savings account. My F&O loss is 100,000 Rs. Then what will be the loss carried forward. Should I apply section 80TTA of exempting Rs 10,000 from my savings interest before offseting. So will my loss carry forward be Rs 40,000 or Rs 50,000. Thanks. God bless.
Rs 40,000 only 🙂
Sir,
I am working in a MNC and my income is 15L/PA. My wife is house wife with no income. can she trade by her own and file separate ITR. If I trade in FnO and make profit of 1L then 30 percent tax slab is applicable. Is it same for her also?
Regards
Deb
Yes she can file. Normal slabs will apply, first 2.5lks no tax, then 10% and so on.
If I didn’t have any taxable income at all (just 50K interest on FD’s & a few losses in stocks & futures) in financial year 14-15 but if I’m making good consistent profit right now (& at the present rate, it looks like I could exceed 2.5 lacs this year) then would I be required to pay advance tax by this 15th September?
If you are just on the boundary of Rs 2.5lks, you could just wait out till last quarter.
Sir I have to I m trading in commodity intraday tax is based on turnover or profit which we make .. I have just start trading what is perfect answer …
Sandeep, taxes is definitely based only profits you make. Turnover is to determine if you need an audit or not.
Hi Nithin,
I opened demat account in July 2015 and have purchased stocks. Suppose till the end of FY 2015, I do not sell any stock. In this case, should there be need to declare as invester/trader and which ITR form be filled ?
Thanks,
Ankush
You will have to show application of funds drawn from your bank account, so yeah you will have to show your stock purchase. Best way would be to use ITR2.
Nithin,
I don’t think we have to disclose the purchase details of Delivery based equity in the ITR.
Only on sale, purchase details are to be mentioned, to determine long or short term and gain or loss.
*Please do not mistake this for not having to file ITR for your other sources of Income for the year as it may result in getting Notice from the IT as they have a tracking system for a handful of high value outflow transactions covered under your PAN.
Commodity intraday is sepculative or nonsepculative
Hi Team Varsity,
Advance tax from AY 2016-17 has been changed to 4 times a year. Please update the same for the benefit of people following this chap.
HELLO SIR,
In year 2015-16 My salary income is near to Rs 145000 & my speculation loss in cash segment is near to Rs66000. also I traded in F&o there my total purchase & sale approx
1.75-1.75cr in each side, my total profit trades is 76200 &losses is 53730. That means i made profit of 22470 in f&o segment it is without taxes & brokerage. So my question is whether I have to maintain books of accounts & require tax audit in this case, Because my total income is below than taxable slab, there is minimum tax liability of f&o income. What is last date of return filling in my case.
First calculate your correct turnover for taxaton, check the chapter on calculating turnover. If turnover is less than 1 crore, you will not need an audit, but if more than that you will.
Hello Nithin,
In fy 2015-16 I traded only in options (options buying). and had the below incomes-
1. My Options turnover = 30,000 ; Loss made in options = 29,000 (Lost nearly all the money in buying options)
2. My income from fixed deposit’s interest = 50,000; TDS deducted by bank for Fixed deposit’s interest = 5,000
3. No further other income, only the above 2 sources of income and also I have not any carried forward losses from previous years.
Now do I have to go for tax audit, as I have made loss in trading ??(For your information, I will use ITR4 form and will show “Trading as a Business” and also please note that in my ITR form I will automatically have a demand of Rs 5,000 which got deducted as TDS for Fixed deposit, as you can see my total income is much much below than the tax exemption limit.) Please reply as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
No need of an audit.
Need help Nitin.
I have a loss of Rs 4 Lacs ( Delivery based Short term trading : JP ruined Me ) in Short Term Equity trading and loss of Rs. 4 lacs in F&o.
I assume that I need to file ITR4.
Now that only ITR 4s and ITR 1 is visible in website, do i need to file ITR1. Or I wait for 2 months to file ITR 4.
Is Audit required? (MY Salary is Rs 15 LPA)
ITR4 is available. Yes you will need an audit.
Since my account is wid zerodha, do you provide service of auditing the yearly transaction.
We don’t provide, we have partner CA’s who can. Send an email to [email protected]
sir
I would like to oparet (software )system fluently as i conot even change password easily
Dear nithin,
if turnover more than 1 crore and trade in cash market segment only(both intraday & short term delivery trades). have incurred profit in intraday and loss in short term delivery trades. therefore net loss is there. have other income as commission agent of 225000. is audit requirement is there to carry forward loss as non speculative loss. please reply. thanks
Yeah audit required if turnover more than Rs 1 crore. I am guessing you will show short term trades as non speculative business income/loss.
THANK YOU, for your quick reply. But i have read all your other replies & in most of them you have told if one don’t have taxable income, he/she doesn’t need to audit his books. please answer these
1. suppose my intraday profits are 5 lac & non speculative business loss is 18 lac therefore net loss is 13 lac with 6 to 8 crore turnover & with commission income of 2.25 lac, is audit required.
2. is this case is of section 44 AB, that is why you said for audit requirement.
3. is taxable income comes in picture in section 44 AD only.
Lastly, on behalf of entire stock market people i want to thank you and zerodha team.
1. If turnover is more than 1 crore, audit is mandatory. But note that it is not contract turnover I am talking about. Check the chapter on turnover. If turnover is less than 1 crore and you have no taxable income, then no audit required.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Cheers,
Just asking last time. Please do reply
1. Can it be possible that i show my short term delivery equity trades with high frequency as short term capital income or loss. also i have intraday trades.so that the loss i have as short term trades (non speculative loss) get into short term capital loss which i carry forward and my profits on intraday trade comes under taxable slabs.as if i don’t want to go for audit. is it possible.
2. if i declare short term capital loss then
a. can i claim all stt, brokerage,service tax,turnover and other taxes.as expenses or cost.
b. can i claim other expenses like reports,laptop, etc which support in trade.
THANKS.
1. No. Intraday has to be shown as speculative business.
2. No, if you are showing this as captial gain/loss, you can’t claim STT. But other than STT you can show it as cost of acquisition.
b. Yes, you can show it as improvement cost of the stocks you have bought.
Hi
I suffered a loss of 2.5 lakhs in f&o and 50k in equity,my only income is from fixed deposit=7.5lakhs, i suppose loss will get offset from fd income, my question is do i need audit for this.
For this you need to first find out your turnover. If turnover more than 1 crore you need audit, if less than 1 crore and profit <8% of turnover, you will need it. Check the chapter on turnover.
THANKS & Good morning,
1. what i say is my INTRADAY (5 lac profit) will be shown as speculative income with my other income of commission income(2.25 lac) . will this all come under income tax slab only.
2. can i show all my non speculative equity delivery based trade (with 18 lac loss) with high turnover into SHORT TERM CAPITAL LOSS. so that i don’t have to go for audit & get file my return before 31 july.
actually i have fear for audit, as this will be my first time for audit if i go for it.
please reply
1. Yes it will. If income over 2.5lks u have taxes to pay. In your case it is 7.25lks.
2. Yes you can. But if you do, you will not be able to setoff your loss against your commission/business income.
Audit sounds scary, but it is just getting a CA to sign your ITR. Nothing to fear.
1.will i be able to deduct the trading brokerage, stt of trading part, & all other charges plus taxes of trading part as cost or expenses from 7.5 lac profit (intrading & commission income).
2. do i have to get audit done even if my intrading turnover is more than 1 crore.
3. Or trading turnover is just profit & losses summation.
4. Will i be able to carry my short term capital loss for 8 years forward.
5. can i deduct my previous year intraday losses with this profit.
please reply. THANK YOU & GOD BLESS YOU.
1. Yes
2. yes
3. As i said read through the chapter on turnover, have explained how to calculate
4. Yes
5. No, losses have to be filed within time to carry forward. You can only do for FY 2015/16 now.
wonderfully written article. But I still feel, these taxation is still a confusing and dauting task for layman.
I do F&O trading, Equity as well. My income is net loss. Total turnover from F&O and equity is less than 5 lakhs.
1. Do I need to file the returns as I dont have a taxable income of more than 2.5 lakhs ?
2. If yes, do I need to file returns and ITR 4 is suitable for me ? and do i have to audit before filing returns ?
thanks in advance.
1. Even if there is no income, best to file returns.
2. Yes ITR4, no audit since turnover less than 1 crore and no tax liability.
Sir, i am carrying forward a loss of Rs 2,00,000 from FY 2014-15 (previous year). This year FY 2015-16 I am having a net profit of 3 lakhs. Both are F&O. So now how much can I offset from this years profit. Any way 2,50,000 is exempt from tax. So can I just offset 50,000 and carry forward 1,50,000 loss to next FY. Or should I offset all 2Lakh and have no carry forward. Please advice. Thanks.
Offsetting losses has to be done before calculating taxable income. So all 2lks will get offset.
Hi Nithin,
The second rule of ITR4 where audit is required says” less than 1 crore and profit <8% of turnover", this means all those persons who are in loss have to go thru audit. I suppose more than 90% comes under this category. Don't you think this rule should be for good profit earners. If you analyse all members data of zerodha , how many comes under loosing category? Highly appreciate if you share these details and try to escalate this ridiculous rule.
We have taken out petitions, met ministry, exchange etc etc.
sir while filing ITR 4 for income under 2.5 lacs i.e.tax free i want a bit of details … i will be very thankful if u tell me that …
while entering data for speculative (equity) profit and charges i put it in section section 36 of part P L .
now where will i put the data for non – speculative (FNO) income AND other charges like STT BROKERAGE stamp duty etc in the same PART P L in ITR 4 …
basically how and where to enter data for non – speculative income (fno) in itr 4…
thank you
You will have to enter speculative income details in schedule BP (point 2a), this is net (profit – charges).
In the Profit and loss on ITR 4, show the combined profit and loss of all activity. (Speculative and non-specu). As soon as you fill the above schedule BP, the ITR form will automatically reduce the speculative from total.
Hi
I suffered a loss of 2.5 lakhs in f&o and 50k in equity,my only income is from fixed deposit=7.5lakhs, i suppose loss will get offset from fd income, but audit is required for that, i have taken advise from local ca and he told me dont go for audit instead carry forward your loss for next year as according to him one who goes for audit it dept observe him very closely. I am in diemma pls what shold i do
Alok, the ITR form itself won’t allow you to carry forward the loss without an audit in your case, since your income is more than 2.5lks. I think you should consult another CA. And no of course, audit doesn’t mean someone is watching you closely, most CA’s do this just to bring in some kind of fear among people and to show that they are doing some special work.
I WENT TO CA & HE SAID GET BOOKS TO BE AUDITED. WHAT BOOKS AM I SUPPOSE TO MAINTAIN (AS TURNOVER MORE THAN 1 CRORE )
Your bank statement, P&L statement and your trading ledger. QUite simple it is.
last my salary is Rs.4 Lakhs
my f&o gross profit is 60,000
expenses like brokerage,stt,internet,rent is 65,000
my net loss is -5,000
my f&o turnover is 6,00,000
my question: audit is required or not…
as if i take gross profit of 60,000 and turnover of 6,00,000….profit is more than 8% of turnover…
but if i take net loss of -5,000 and turnover of 6,00,000… it is less than 8% of turnover…
so we should come to this audit decision based on gross profit divided by turnover or net profit divided by turnover ?
please do guide..
love zerodha 🙂
thanks
You have to look at net profit, since below 8% you will need an audit. 🙂
thanks nithin 🙂
CURIOUS QUESTION
why did you tell someone by name VAMSHI (on july 16 2015 at 3.05 pm) “NOT to get her books audit when her turnover is more than 1 crore with intraday and shortterm trading loss to the extent of 4.14 lac, on the ground that she don’t have any tax liablity.
and you told me to get myself audit. as i have same case of high intraday and shortterm trade with 18 lac loss and 5 lac profit in intraday with high turnover.
there are many cases where you have said that one don’t need audit if one doesn’t have taxable income, even though turnover is more than 1 crore.
please reply
Typo, have fixed it. Vamshi needed an audit.
HI
I have a LTCG of 24.7 lacs and 1.4 lacs as speculative gain in my wife’s account . Is LTCG applicable for her or does she need to pay taxes on that due to high volume of fno trading in the account.
Is it necessary to get the audit done if one wants to show the F & O loss in ITR?
It is based on your turnover. check for the chapter on turnover.
Turnover is less than 1 Cr.
Dear sir, i am zerodha trader with id RC0258,i got a letter for non filing income tax return for fy 12-13,but till now all my capital is lossing ,for this fy 12-13 i loss everything .till now loss around 7-8 lakhs ,is there any penalty or action ITdepartment what shall i do now please guide me
If you have lost money, you just have to explain to the AO that you had losses and hence you didn’t file. You don’t have to be worried about any penalty .
Nithin sir,here can i show only profitloss statement for those finanacial year to AO without CA audit .
Yes you can, it is anyways too late to audit it now.
Sir,
Your article on this tax matter is of great help. I am giving two hypothetical examples only to clear some doubts about Turnover calculation in FnO after going through your module.
1) A small trader trades daily in 1 lot of Futures. Out of 250 trading days in a year, he made Rs.1000 per day profit for 200 days and Rs.1000 per day loss for remaining 50 days. So his net profit is Rs. (2,00,000-50,000) = Rs.1,50,000. And turnover is Rs.2,50,000 as you wrote in Futures the absolute value of profit/loss is the turnover. So profit is 60% of turnover. Have I understood correct?
2) A small trader trades daily in 1 lot of options. Out of 250 trading days in a year, he made Rs.1000 per day profit for 200 days and Rs.1000 per day loss for remaining 50 days. So his net profit is Rs. (2,00,000-50,000) = Rs.1,50,000. But turnover becomes much more as the premium received on sale i.e. the sale value is included. Here apart from absolute value of profit/loss which is again Rs.2,50,000 we have to include sale value of options. Suppose the person trades with options trading at premium around Rs.200. So sale value of 1 lot option is Rs. (200*75) = Rs.15,000. In 250 trading days it becomes Rs. (15000*250) = Rs.37,50,000. Therefore total turnover in options = Rs.(2,50,000+37,50,000) = Rs.40,00,000. Then profit of Rs.1,50,000 is just 3.75% only. Have I understood correct?
1. yes
2. Yes. About option turnover, the method I have spoken is the most conservative way. Many people don’t use the selling value for turnover calculation. Check this post, has explanation.
Hi Nitin,
Firstly wonderful article and thanks for that. Now I have just one doubt.
I head that STT is something like prepaid tax. So, can we deduct that STT at the time of paying tax?
For instance, I paid 10k rupees as STT all the year and at the end of the year, my I have to pay 1 Lack tax from my trading. Now can I deduct this 10k and pay 90k as tax?
Thanks in advance.
STT is not a prepaid tax, but it is definitely an expense for you. If you have 1lk gross profit, you can reduce STT along with all other charges, and pay taxes on the net profit.
WHAT documents or statement does a CA need to do audit.
1. do i have to do journal entry for each and every transaction & then make LEDGER OF books, & p&l account.
2. can i give my p&l account from broking firm, which includes everything. is that sufficient for my share business.
3. finally i can give a P & L which includes all my share profit or loss(summary from brokers P & l account) and other details.
Your P&L, your brokerage account ledger, and bank statements with explanation on what your spends are for.
I gave my CA as what you said (p&l of share trading), bank statement, brokerage ledger(contains details of bill with date). but he presist to maintain all books of accounts. like do journal for every transaction, main ledger accounts & then p& l account. i gave him the p&l statement of my broker which i think is fine. but he says it will be different from our angel. please help
Yeah, some CA’s might ask you for this.
Hi sir
there is loss(negative) in mtm in toatal.But the turnover is exceeding one crore then what will be the tax implication
kindly help me
No taxes if there is a loss. You might have to get an audit done by your CA.
could you suggest me a CA online, who could do audit for me, as i don’t find any CA who has a understanding of taxation with respect to market in my city.
YOu can check this: http://tradetax.in/
Is there any ristrications or any special rules for central government employees to trade in stock markets?
Best to as your department.
Hi, I bought and sold shares in a particular financial year. In that F.Y, in April I had a loss of Rs.3400, in May I had a profit of Rs.54000 and in June I had a profit of Rs.4700. From July I began to incur loses. In July itself, I made a loss of Rs.2 lacs. And I just increased my losses from there. At the end of F.Y my loss from share activities stood at Rs. 6.7 lacs. My question is whether I was liable to pay advance tax because I was in profit for the 1st 3 months? Thanks. I was also in profit in month of September, I made Rs.10000 in September (just in September, overall I was in loss).
I would like to add that I was in a job at that time and employers deducted T.D.S from my salary regularly. But that was for my salary income only.
This is related to F.Y 14-15.
Overall if you have made a loss, question of advance tax doesn’t come into play at all.
Hi i am kiran Raj,
i have one query regarding my income tax filing.
my only professional is “intraday “trading on share market,Is there any Income tax for intraday profit or not?
If you make intraday profits, you have to pay according to the tax slabs mentioned in the first chapter of this module.
HOW TO CALCULATE TRADING & DELIVERY stt, stamp duty charges, turnover charges etc separately, AS my CA says he want separate charges for both trading & delivery. but i a single bill which include both trading & delivery, there is no separate charges. or can i show all this (trading plus delivery charges) as other cost.
Arun, you would have to do this manually. This has all the charges: https://zerodha.com/charge-list. We will soon start showing this separately ourselves on the new Q that we are building.
Are stock and FNO traders subject to profession tax?
HI.SIR
FOR LONG TERM INESTMENT IN STOCKS THE SAME RULE IF I DO INVEST WITH MY NRE ACCOUNT?
Yes, LTCG no taxes even for NRI
HI.SIR .
THANKS FOR REPLY
on NRE account traading in short term can i get benifit up to 2.5 lk profit i got on no tax?
No you dont’ get the benefit. It’s 15% flat on whatever profit u make.
Hello,
Do NRI have to pay 15% tax on profit even if overall it’s a loss?
Like if a person has made 1lkh profit but then earned a loss of 2lkh, how will it playout now?,
1lkh 15% tax
or
2lkh- 1lkh= no tax.
Thanks.
15% only on net realized capital gain. No tax in your example.
Hi, please consider this question. A person ‘X’ started share trading in F.Y 14-15. He suffered total loss of Rs. 6.7 lacs from delivery based trading and intraday trading of stocks in that F.Y. He went to C.A to get his return filed and found that he needs to get his books of accounts audited. Now, this person didn’t know about what ‘books of accounts are. He had every receipt and detail of transaction he had made though. He gave all the information as asked by C.A and his audit was completed. His return was filed in due time (Form 3CB. Form 3CD etc). Now, the question is when this person asked that how he should maintain books of accounts, the C.A told him that it will only be required if income tax department raises any query. So, this person is little worried as he has no books of accounts with him. What should he do?
Ankit, CA’s tend to make keeping book of accounts sound scary. It is quite simple, if you are a retail trader, you anyways have all details on your P&L/trading ledger/Bank account. So like the CA said, nothing to worry.
Thanks. Are there any good resources which can teach how to do that?
Can’t think of any.
Hi Nithin,
I’ve one doubt about the F&O trading turnover related query.
Future trade turnover calculation not a problem (Add Profit and loss whether Favorable & Unfavorable trade).
But, Option trading turnover calculation is complex and creating problem while auditing (Add Profit and loss whether Favorable & Unfavorable trade + Sell Price * Quantity).
Assume, If I’ve do the intraday on Option trading (very active trader with small profit in every trade- 5 to 10 transactions per day) and the turnover definitely cross above 1 crore in just 1 month or 2 months. So, the turnover of Option trading cross assault 10 to 12 crore and volume of transaction is too high.
In this case, how much maximum (approximately you given for audit) CA audit fee whether I’ll profit or loss in Option trading.
Thanks in advance.
CA’s usually charge between 5k to 20k for audit per year.
Hi. I have done some intraday trading in F.Y 2015-16. Total turn over of 1.6 lacs and profit of Rs. 23. I only traded for 8 days as I ran out of money. I was unemployed but I received my P.F amount of Rs. 3,60,000 which will be taxable as I left before 5 years. My question is, was I liable for an audit again?
I bought some shares out of those Rs. 3,60,000 and held them till end of F.Y 15-16.
Audit is applicable only in case the turnover is more than 1 crore for FY 2015-16. So you are not applicable
In case you mean filing of return and not audit, then Yes filing Income tax return is mandatory and since your turnover is just 1.6 lacs, it is tax audit is not required and you can file returns by yourself without CA
i am government employ my sallary 13-14 year is 3 lakhs. i have 13-14 year intraday trading invest 2.5 lakhs and turnover is 3 crore but total loss . i have itr only sallery income. i have received income tax deparment and he say for penalty for intrday turnover amount. i have also submit audit paper last week. please suggest me i do
For turnover of 3.6 crore it is mandatory to get audited by CA..even though loss. Your CA can best guide you further with the procedure
Hi,
I got a IT scrutiny notification for FY2014-15 for ‘Security Transaction’. I did specullative trading on that year and made a loss of around 4 lac rupees. My turnover was around 40 Cr rupees. I have opted for online assessment processing as my ward is Bangalore. Currently I am in US and I provided annual report(Ledger and P&L) from broker to Accessing officer over mail. Please let me know if this is sufficient. I am bit afraid as what would happen now. If you have any idea please guide me. I filed IT return for that year as an NRI status as I was outside country more than 200 days.
Thanks,
Rajesh
This transaction of 40 Cr is on margin on regular daily trading. My own capital involved throughout the year would be 4 Lac rupees. Still it need to be audited. Please confirm.
Thanks
Rajesh
Check out the chapter on turnover, turnover is not contract/notional turnover. Turnover is basically absolute sum of your profits and losses.
Rajesh, as long as you haven’t evaded paying any taxes, you should be alright. I guess you just have to wait for the response now.
I am in same situation as you were. What happen with your case?
Sir,
I am salaried person. When I filling IT return, I do not know to show intarday transaction in IT return. Then I got scrutiny letter from IT Office. My turn over is above 2 cores. Also I am in Loss in this year.What will be action taken by IT Office.please help me sir.Im in very deppressed mood.
Prashant, as long as you haven’t avoided paying taxes, it is okay. Tell the IT officer the same, that you didn’t file because you didn’t have to pay any tax as there was a loss. Nothing to worry. Best to file returns even if no taxes to pay.
Yes Sir, I was already contact with IT officer he says that you must pay fine… Is it necessary?
You should question him, fine for what? Tell him by not declaring the loss you have probably paid more taxes. That said you will have to file a revised return.
Hi, consider a person ‘X’. He bought shares worth Rs. 3,60,000 in April, 2015. He sold shares worth Rs. 48000 in August, 2016 and got profit of Rs.9600. Is this person liable to pay any advance tax? He will probably sell rest of the shares too soon and his profit may reach to Rs. 1,20,000. Will then he be liable for advance tax? Thanks. This person has no other source of income as he is unemployed as of now.
Ankit, taxes in India applicable only if you earn more than Rs 2.5lks per year. If you think you won’t, there is no need to pay any advance tax. If you think you will, yeah advance tax will be there.
Hi , I have annual salary – 5L.
I do merely lot of intraday in a year.
If I made profit 10 Lakh in a calendar year on 2015-2016
How much tax I should paid totally?
I am Zerodha user. How can I get a 1 year transaction trading details in a single Pdf?
If you make 10lk profit, add it to your 5lk salary, on 15lks you will have to pay taxes as per the IT slab. Login to Q.zerodha.com, you will get a tax P&L statement there.
Hi Nithin,
For FY 15-16
(a) My Taxable Salary : Rs.515000/-
(b) Capital Loss on Equity (Delivery based trading) : Rs.(-) 38000/-
(c) Intra Day Loss on Equity (Day Trading) : Rs. ()-15000/-
(d) Bank & FD Interest Recd : Rs.24000/-
Shall I fall under Any Tax Audit Category ?
To determine audit, you need to check out your turnover. Turnover determines audit requirement. Check out the chapter on turnover.
I have been trading intraday as well as short term on Margin funding/ finance provided by the broker. Please advise if I can adjust / treat interest amount debited as expenses while arriving at the actual gains / business income made in the above activities. Also whether gains from the intra day trading can be adjusted against short term delivery losses of the same year considering the all the activities under business.
Yes, interest can be shown as expense. No, intraday trading from equity is speculative and can’t be setoff against any other income.
Hi Nithin, I do regulary Intraday Trading .. My Salary Income is Below 2 Lakhs ,,, Due to using margins my turnover is above 1 cr . do tax audit is needed ..i face loses around 10K .
Himanshu, first check out how to calculate turnover (see the chapter on turnover). If turnover is more than 1 crore, yeah you will need audit.
Dear Nithin, Can you help in clarifying the following – If you buy a bond on zerodha and sell it in the same Fin Year , then (a) will it be taxed as income or as capital gain etc. (b) will the Q.Zerodha capture the taxation when I generate my tax statement (c) if you buy a bond which matures in 1 month and in other words, you do not sell (i) Will this also show up in Zerodha taxable profit Loss AND (ii) will there be any difference in its being treated as income or capital gain. Thanks as always
1. Short term capital gain.
2. Taxes has to be paid by you, Q won’t capture how much tax to pay. It varies from person to person.
3. Yes all trades of bonds, show up on P&L. Treatment in terms of taxes may vary, you will have to research this based on the bond you are buying.
Sir,
I have 1.5 Lac loss in Commodity futures and 2 L profit from short tern capital gain and 1 L profit from Long tern capital gain. What is my net taxable Amount. can STCG and LTCG profit can be setoff with non speculative loss???????
No Amit, they can’t be setoff. You will have to pay taxes @15% on your STCG. But if you declare STCG as business income, then you can setoff. do go through the entire module on taxation.
Hi,
I am salaried person also trading part-time in F&O. I am getting 32k as HRA per month and paying 20k rent. If I claim tax benefit I get only 12k (20k – 10% of 80k basic). Is it possible to show 20k as business expenses in F&O income and not to claim any HRA in the salary income?
Yeah you can, but make sure to only till the extent you actually use it for your business.
Hello Mr. Kamath,
Very Informative and in depth write ups and explanations.
I am government employee falling under 30% tax Bracket.
Need help on the trailing from you:
1. Is F&O trading consider as business or STCG or Income from Other Sources? As if considered Business then whether a govt employ carryout trading of F&O?
2. Loss from F&O if considered as business then it can be setoff with what :- a. STCG or b. Income from other sources?
Hoping to get an early reply from u?
Cheers!!!
Abhishek Agarwal
1. Business. You will have to find out from your department if you are allowed to trade F&O.
2. It can be setoff against other business income of yours.
thanx for the prompt reply.. cant F&O be considered under the head ” Income from other sources” and not business?
If considered as ” Income from other sources” then it can be set-off against STCG and also any other income under the head ” Income from other sources” .. right?
Regards,
Abhishek
No, F&O has to be shown as business income. And it can’t be set off against STCG. But like I have explained earlier, if you are doing very active short term delivery trades, you can show that as a business income. Do read through all the chapters.
Hi Nithin
I am NRI [Individual] and have only F&O income [Non-speculative business income, as you have mentioned]. I would like to know how should I be calculating my tax – will it be, flat 30.9% on net profit or will the slabs of 2.5 Lakh (as in the example under 5.2 above) applicable?
My Bank keeps holding 30.9% of the profit in my ledger (may be considering as business income)!
Hi Sai, you will have to pay tax as per the IT slab. Upto 2.5lks nil, 2.5 to 5 10%, and so on. Your bank will deduct based on highest slab as TDS, but you can file your IT returns and claim for a tax refund.
Thanks for clarifying!
first of all ….wonderful article. really helpful. Futher a small query, if i form a pvt. ltd. company to trade in shares then for non-F&O based trading what is the tax rate? is it 15% or is it normal corporate tax rate of around 30%. Also, if its 15% can we also reduce tax liability by our expenses (like office rental, salary etc). Thanking you in anticipation.
If you show it as capital gains, it will be 15%. You can show only related expenses as cost of improvement if STCG- things like transaction charges, cost of tips etc. Rental, salary, etc will not really be possible.
thanks for the reply. appreciate it. though i have a follow-up question on your choice of words. You said, “If you show it as capital gains, it will be 15%”….is there anything else that this profit could be shown as? It has to be shown as STCG right? Am i missing something ?
You have an option to show your equity delivery gains as non-speculative business income. In which case you have to pay taxes according to normal tax slab. But in this case, you can claim all expenses related to your business of trading (rental, internet, etc). Do go through all the chapters.
Sure nithin. Can you kindly let me know the relevant chapters? Will surely go through them. Thanks a lot for your time man.appreciate it…
Hi Nitin,
I am a salaried professional and made a loss of Rs.700 for the last two months (F&O trading).
1)Should I mention about this loss while filing the return next year during assessment?
2)From what I read no audit is required for salaried professional?
3)cant I set off the loss of Rs.700 against my salary (since I don’t have any other source of income)? are the rules still same?
4)is advanced tax applicalbe for salaried professional?
Thank You
1. Yes
2. Can you check the chapter on audit, it doesn’t matter if you are salaried or not, audit is determined by turnover that you do.
3. No, check all the chapters once.
4. NO need to pay if your income is only salary. Your company would be deducting TDS and paying.
I do only cnc i.e. delivery base but do it daily i.e. sometimes sell same day so intra day and and most times next day after its purchase but all on cash.
So should its intraday to be speculative income and that one which i do daily but sell next day of its puchase to be considered as speculative or non speculative as i m paying STT.
Also if non speculative then turnover wil be sel price minus puchase price ?
Pls help
Yeah, delivery/BTST can be shown as capital gains and intraday as speculative business income. Yes for speculative, sum of absolute profits and losses as turnover. Check the chapter on turnover.
In my case my BTST is very very frequent so i think It should be shown as NON Specultive income instead of capital gains or speculative as given in chapter.
Hi nithin,
After my father’s demise my mother gets pension of rs. 21600/- per month. my father was government servant. if calculated annually it goes 21600*12=259200. My mother has no income other than this. is she liable to pay tax?
On the Rs 9200 there is 10% tax (over 2.5lks). But you can save in any tax saving instruments this Rs 9200 and save that tax on Rs 9200.
I have lost 60000/- in FY16-17 in F&O, where should i declare these loss in ITR?
You need to use ITR4 and show P&L in gross sales and receipts. Go through all the chapters, explained clearly.
Hi Nithin,
Excellent module on taxation. I have income from salary, equity Mutual Fund (MF), Liquid Fund (LiquidBees on Zerodha), Portfolio Management Services (PMS), and my own direct stock investment, Intraday trading and F&O (all on Zerodha). Please confirm my understanding.
1) Declare myself as both “Investor” and “Trader” (Last FY, I was only investor. Only stock/MF investment and no Intraday / F&O trading)
2) Use ITR 4 for filing return
3) STCG from PMS & Equity MF to be reported under Capital gain section with concessional tax rate (15% on equity). No tax on Liquid Bees as the gain is always ZERO there.
4) Long term gain (> 1year) from PMS, Equity MF and my direct stock investment under Exempt Income with 0% tax
5) Short term gain (< 1 year) on direct equity investment, Intraday and F&O under Business Income with tax rate as based on slab. Audit from CA based on business turnover and reported profit.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes. Btw, from this FY dividends are taxable if total dividend income above Rs 10lks per year. 10% over and above 10lks.
4. Yes
5. Yes. Intraday as speculative, short term and F&O as non-speculative business income. Short term equity investments can also be declared as capital gains if this is not extremely active.
On #5, I would have 24 equity delivery trades in the current FY qualifying for STCG (holding < 1 year), roughly 2 per month. I intent to show them under STCG to avail 15% tax. Trust it would be fine. Many Thanks in advance
Yep, should be fine. But do consult a CA. Best,
Hi Nithin,
First of all, thanks for your nice help with these articles. These modules are all very helpful and very informative.
–
I have a question on the Advance Tax payment. Let me take my real life example to frame the question better.
I have a net profit of Rs 20,000 till date in Short Term Equity Trading (no intraday, mostly 1 week to 1 month holding period). Ideally I should pay an advance tax on this 20K. But I am also planning to take help from the Loss Harvesting. I have some other equities in my portfolio where I am making a loss more than 20K. I did not sell them, I want to hold them because I believe they will eventually recover. Sometime between now and March 31st, I will sell them & book the loss, and I will immed buy back those again. This will offset the profit of 20K for this financial year. Since I am already certain of doing this, do I still need to pay an advance tax for the 20K profit (& claim it later when I file), or can I ignore the advance tax payment ? Please confirm.
Secondly, if I do this offset just on 30th or 31st March, do I still owe a tax (or interest) to the govt for the 3 months period from now till March end ? Or is it okay not to pay any tax (or interest) as long as my net profit as on 31st March is less than 0…. I actually made this 20K profit in Sep-Oct. So I guess even if I offset the profit with a loss in March, the incometax dept would still expect me to pay an advance tax in Oct and then claim it back after the year end when I will show net profit as zero. So, not doing that would attract an interest charge to me. If I offset the profit, there wont be any tax payable – but what about the interest charge ? Will they zero down that or will I have to pay it ? Please clarify.
–
Thanks if advance for your assistance & help.
Hi Sudipta,
While calculating advance tax, you do it based on your assumption of income at end of financial year (march 31st). If you think it is going to be 0 or lesser, no need to pay advance taxes.
Thanks much Nikhil !
Hi Nithin,
If a person is purely F&O trader and doesn’t need audit i.e P/L total turnover 8% of total turnover. Which ITR should be filed ? Please suggest.
You can use ITR4S, easier to file.
Hi,
I need to know whether Audit is required for me.
I am salaried employee. I did Intraday trading in equity for 3-4 months and incurred loss of about 45000. I also did short term delivery based equity trading and incurred loss of around 6000.
Total buy/Sell in intraday: Above 2 Crores
Total buy/Sell in short term delivery based : 2 Lakhs
Kindly confirm if any audit is required.
Also do i need to show these losses in ITR.
Please look at the chapter on turnover, turnover is not trading volume, it is absolute sum of profits and losses. I doubt if it will be Rs 2crores for you. But anyways, yeah you would need an audit if you have taxes to pay and if your profitability is less than 8% of your turnover.
Dear Nitin and Zerodha team,
Please help me regarding my IT return.
query 1 I am not able to see charges for F.y. 15-16 in Q zerodha back office. It is showing 0 everywhere. Please send me or tell me how can i see total charges details with breakup.
Secondly please help me for following also.
I had filed my return of F.Y. 15-16 before extended due date i.e. 5-8-16 but i didn’t show my trading loss.
query 2 Now i want to revise that return to show and carry forward trading losses as business losses. I have only acc in F&O segment. Can i do so.?
I hav following situation from trading of F.Y. 15-16
Profit and turnover breakdown
Futures realized profit 81548.85
Options realized profit -100917.00
Total realized profit -19368.15
Futures unrealized profit -231897.60
Options unrealized profit -6564.00
Total unrealized profit -238461.60
Futures turnover 335800.85
Options turnover 860596.00
Total turnover 1196396.85
query 3 So how and what amount has to show in income tax p&l account?
I had filed following return
Income from PGBP and other sources i.e. Gross total income— 309120
less: Deductions Under chapter VI-A — 40913
Total Income —-268210
Tax Payable —- 1821
Rebate U/S 87A —– 1821
TDS 11
Refund 10
query 4 Is it required tax audit?
Sorry i am also CA but i am in job and hardly remember any provision now and law has changed much.
Regards
If you are not seeing charges, can you email [email protected]
To carry forward a loss, you need to file your returns within time. Since you haven’t you will not be able to carry forward those losses. But if you have missed out mentioning, you can still revise your return.
If you can look at the chapter on ITR forms, I have shown what figures to show where.
Since your turnover is over 1 crore for last FY, you will ideally need to get audit. Do go through all the chapters of this module.
If you are not seeing charges, can you email [email protected]
I will do the same thank you for solution
To carry forward a loss, you need to file your returns within time. Since you haven’t you will not be able to carry forward those losses. But if you have missed out mentioning, you can still revise your return.
No i have filed return in time but not mentioned losses. So now revising return with claim of losses. So my question is can i do so?
If you can look at the chapter on ITR forms, I have shown what figures to show where.
Thank you indeed helpful i will check same.
Since your turnover is over 1 crore for last FY, you will ideally need to get audit. Do go through all the chapters of this module.
No if you see my turnover is somewhere Rs. 11.96 Lakhs but losses are inviting tax audit u/s 44AB. However please see my return part and then please advice.
Suppose i am having other income from business Rs. 350000
And derivative trading losses Rs. 20000
and brokerages and other charges rs. 30000
So total loss claim of trading is Rs. 50000
My income will be Rs. 300000
and my 80C investments is Rs. 40000
Now Total income is Rs. 260000 i.e. above 250000
and i claim rebate U/S 87A for Rs. 1000
Tax liability NIL
Now should i get audit as total income is above 2.5 lakhs.
Further can i claim unrealised losses also in this year.
Anooj, yeah, since you have tax to pay and your profit is less than 8% of turnover, you need to get your books audited. An easier way for you would be to declare 8% of your turnover as profits and pay taxes on that. Around 80k profits (on 10lks turnover) and @10% slab it is 8k in taxes. You could increase your 80C or others to cover for this 80k increase in income. Calculation of turnover, you could use an aggressive approach as well to reduce your turnover. Best to consult a CA.
Dear Mr Nithin,
I am a Government servant and I was trading during my free time regularly. For the year 2014-15 ( Assessment year 2015-16) I had filed returns like regular salaried employee as I have made losses in trading. My taxable salary income was 11,36,180 after all deductions and I paid Rs 1,70,830 as gross income tax ( inclusive of Edu cess). My net loss from trading is -3,06,048.75 in addition to charges of 1,09,867.88 total loss of -4,15,916.63 Now I have received an Income tax notice for checking the tax returns again as I have not included trading. Am I required to pay taxes again. How to show them my traded details? From where I can download the accounts with my Demat account mentioned. Please provide the help. Thank you.
Since you have lost money, there is no taxes you have to pay. I guess the notice is because you have not shown this trading business on your ITR. You will have to revise your ITR, use ITR4 and show these losses on them. Do consult a CA to fill this for you, nothing to worry about this. You can get a P&L statement, ledger (all money moved in and out) from your broker. You can use this to show the ITO that there was a loss .
Hi Nithin. Thanks for all the information. I have always declared my STCG from equity trades as STCG and paid tax at 15%. However, from this year (September 2018) I am a full time trader with some other sources of investment income i.e. rental, bonds, etc. Can I now start declaring my STCG from equity trades as business income? Also, will I be able to claim deductions under various sections of 80C from this income? My thought process is since the fequency of my trades have now changed I should start declaring as business income. Besides from a taxation point of view it seems beneficial to me. Also, would I need to get a GST number?
Yes, you can show it as business income, so it will be like any other business income. No need of GST number.
Boss i will be finished do u know? Since you are saying you have to get audit done. Then how possible? Time has gone. and now if i show anything wrong penalty of Rs. 1.5 lakhs for non audit will levy. Please review your chapters as they are misleading most places and cause serious damage to public on ill advisory. Don’t get me wrong? Issue is so complex and views of different high courts are also different on treatment of derivative PL as speculative or non speculative. Delhi court said its speculative loss/income but Kolkata high court said its business PL i.e. non speculative.
Hi,
If I have no Salary income and have only profits from Short Term Capital Gain from Equity, Bank FDs, Dividends, adding all if I am still below INR 2.5 Lakhs –
1. Do I still need to file returns?
2. Will I have to still pay tax for the STCG @15% for the profits?
Thanks,
1. Always preferable to file returns.
2. No, Taxes applicable only after first 2.5lks.
Nice explaination, Since I am a CA Final Student I know how difficult to understand Taxation, I really appriciate how beautifully explained the whole post, and also appreciate work done by author.
At starting, in the first paragraph , the total income example is shown of rs 1.2crores instead of 12lacs….. Correct it
Can we set off non speculative losses against non speculative gains?
Yes, of course.
sir for eg i have a loss in trading in past 7 years and make it up the loss in 8th year now i nt need to pay any tax write? my question is past 7 yr loss is 20lakhs 8th yr profit is 40 lakhs now difference is 20 lakhs. past 8yrs i nt avail any tax benefit. can i adjust my 20 lakhs profit ie 2.5L per yr no tax x 8 yrs = 20 L
🙂 No. You will be able to setoff only the losses that got carried forward, in your case 20lks. You will have to pay taxes on the remaining Rs 20lks. Btw, losses can be carried forward only if you file your returns on time.
Sir still now I nt file it return from 2010 to 2016. Intraday loss 4 lakhs b4 2013 now four yrs gone so can’t offset. Their is any possible to file my loss previous 4 yrs back ? Bcz 15L in f&o loss
Advise me. I plan to restart my trading and avail 10L tax slab bracket for few years
HI Nithin,
I have several doubts :
1. I am trading since 2011 . 2011 to 2013 – I was student and was having fund of max Rs 25000 and was doing intra day trading only . but i dont know why while checking in income tax site I got notification of CIB-502: Contract of Rs. 10,00,000/-or more in the Commodities for 2012-13 . This cannot be true .
2. Another one is like STT03 -sale of equity share (settled otherwise than by actually delivery or transfer) in a recognised stock exchange. for time period 2012-13 . Does it simple mean that it was cash and carry forward condition. If thats true then its fine I would have carried some shares on delivery .
3. I started doing my Job in Big MNC from Jan 2013 , Why I have mentioned the word Big MNC because I have not received form 16 from them for the year 2013-14 . Although I have received form 16 for all the consecutive years until now and I have files all ITR f0r 2014-15 , 2015-16 , 2016-17 . The result is I was not able to file 203-14 ITR as I was the fresher in the corporate world , So I was not aware of this ITR stuff and all and also I have not received Form 16 as well while checking now in mails . I am non complaint for 2013-14 ITR filing .
4. I have done hell lot of tradings in options from last year and the result is I am in Net loss (Profit+Loss combined) of around Rs 12 Lakhs. The point is that will they not care about this ? and they will just focus on my profits and ask for tax on that ? The 12 Lakh loss is like say 17 lakh loss and 5 lakh profits . So 17 – 5 = 12 Lakhs (Net Loss). Does it mean that 5 lakh would be taxable ?
Please guide . I have also sent my documents to zerodha for new account opening . They have received it today in bangalore office . I can see in my past staements I have paid like 4-5 lakhs brokerage alone to HDFC SEC . I am repenting so much to not to witch to discounted brokerage firm. These big names costs a lot to customers like what airtel has done so far . Jio/Zerodha came to rescue now .
1/2. These notices are going to people automated who have traded but haven’t filed IT returns or not declared in IT returns.
3. Did you make profits in those years when you didn’t file ITR? If you have, then you will have to pay tax on that with penalty now. Again tax only if you made profits more than minimum income tax slabs then. You have to reply to those notices saying that you didn’t have any tax liability
4. ah no, you have to pay tax only if you make a net profit.
Thank you very much ! My Zerodha account will be opened on Monday EOD . I am so excited to trade with Zerodha !
Hi Nithin ,
I came to know today that you are Founder and CEO of Zerodha. WOW ! You are doing an excellent job !!! This is to inform you that some backoffice account is opened for me now . So whilst trying to add funds in trading account , faced lot of difficulties . Zerodha’s account belongs to HDFC Bangalore , Mine is also of HDFC Bangalore , So it should be smooth like anything ! LOL .
Followed that screenshot uplaoding procedure too but that system is throwing some validation error even after 4 eye checks .
P.S : I know this is taxation forum and I have added funds related query .Sorry 🙂
Hey VR, if you are transferring from HDFC to HDFC, you don’t need to upload any screenshots, the funds automatically get updated on the trading front end. Btw check out Zconnect for Zerodha specific queries. Stay active on these forums as it helps me stay connected with any issues. 🙂
Sir,
Hats off to your dedication to solve each query.
My question is if my wife does trading having income below 2.5 lakh will stcg tax will be applicable.
Thanks Nikhil, if total income is below Rs 2.5lks, no STCG applicable.
Hi, i have two doubts
1. i heard that we need to pay 35% tax for intraday profits is that true?
2. in that case, let’s say i am NOT employed and i only do intraday trading. and i made 5 Laks profit in last year.
so i will pay 35% on short term capital gain + my regular income tax 10% (175000+25000 = 200000) is it so?
Taxes have to be paid according to tax slabs. Can you read through the entire module.
1. 30% is the highest slab (income above Rs 10lks)
2. For the first 2.5lks u won’t pay any tax, next 2.5lks u pay 10% or Rs 25000. If you are employed, you have to add Rs 5lks profit to your salary income and then pay tax according to the slab.
Thanks for clarifying. BTW the highest will be 40% for above 50 Lks.
Ah no, 33% (10% of 30% is additional for people earning above 50lks, and 15% of 30% for more than 1 crore). So for above 50lks it is 33% and above 1 crore 34.5%. Tax hike for people between 50 lks to 1 crore would be from next financial year.
Sir, could you please clarify this point.
My “NET REALISED PROFIT” as on today is +3 Lakh
And “UNREALISED PROFIT” as on today is + 3.5 Lakh (holding shares since 2 months with profit)
My questions is If i sell these shares after 31.03.2017 (little more than a month to hold). Will these profit considerd as taxable income for this FY 2016 / 2017 or only next FY 2017 / 2018?
If it is considered for next financial year means I am planning to hold for 2 more months.
I will end up paying less tax for this financial year.
Please clarify Sir. Thanks
PROFIT OF BUSINESS – RS. 353007 AND
LOSS ON MCX – RS. 49235
HOW TO CALCULATE INCOME TAX ON THIS TRUNCATION ..?
Loss on MCX can be shown as business loss, so 3.5lks -49k = around Rs 3lks on which u have to pay tax. First 2.5lks no tax, next 51k 10%, so around Rs 5000 in taxes.
Hello,
This blog is way beyond awesome!
I’ve been trading F&O since 2015.
2015- Received a Substitute 1099 /B Statement from Broker. Profit/(loss) 2 000
2016- Same document. Profit/ (loss) 3000
I did not put any info last year on my tax return about trading. I don’t have any income this year but I do file my income tax return with my wife, and she receives a salary.
Do I have to pay taxes for the trading activity (loss)? If so, not sure if I have to declare a new business (trader business) and what is the code for that. Can I include loss from 2015?
Thank You so much!
Taxes need to be paid only if you earn/make profits, not on losses. You can rectify the returns from the previous year, but you can’t add that loss to this year. ALso, it is best you declare your trading income, even if you don’t fall under any IT slab.
Can I get a link to Zerodha Video tutorials just like Zerodha Varasity modules from basics to advanced.
We don’t currently have video tutorials, but we have just started an education initiative on our youtube channel. Check this post.
Sir,
I have income 170000 p.a. for FY 2014-15 and trading loss is 94000 in F&O segment. I have not file ITR for this FY. But now I got the Notice from income tax department as non filer and showing these transactions are done through my PAN no.
2014-15 CIB-502 contract of Rs.10,00,000/- or more in the commodities exchange
2014-15 STT-04 sale of option in securities (derivative) in a recognised stock exchange.
2014-15 STT-05 sale of futures (derivative) in a recognised stock exchange.
Sir my income for FY 2014-15 is
Salary income 170000
trading loss 94000
What should I do against this notice which i got from IT department.
You can reply to the notice saying why you hadn’t declared your trading income (since you didn’t come under a tax slab and also had losses in F&O). Show your P&L for that year along with bank transfer to and from the trading account. You should be alright.
I do trading on a regular basis. Can buy a car and include depreciation of the car/fuel etc. as cost in the trading P&L and show only the net profit for tax purposes?
🙂 if you can justify that the user of car is related to your trading business.
I got the Notice fromIT dept. as following
2014-15 CIB-502 contract of Rs.10,00,000/- or more in the commodities exchange
But when I see my P/L report for commodity it shows total turnover of Rs. 15,505/- for FY 2014-15
What does they mean by contract of Rs.10,00,000/ ?
Thanks
Ah the IT department notice is just contract turnover, if you have bought 1lot of gold and sold 1 lot, that is 60lks turnover for them. Don’t bother about the turnover, make sure to respond to the notice.
hi sir,
i would like to know, how much money i can invest in intraday for month or year to save tax ?
You can’t save tax by trading intraday.
I am planning to trade in the name of my father as I am government employee and speculative trading is not allowed. Kindly let me know who has to show capital gains in their ITR. My father has retired and has no source of Income.
Your father can file the ITR in his name. You can show the money from your account to your dad as a gift.
If gift is given to father and that same amount is used for investment or trading, wont the gains be added to income of donor?
No, it won’t be. Tax will be paid by your father.
I am government employee.Can i do F&O trading.
It was a very helpful session today. Looking forward to session from CA to help fill up ITR4. Thanks.
Hi Sir, if i pay for CA to do audit an amount of Rs 12,000 to 15,000 – does that include for audit this year and also while filing for next year? so if I pay for CA then they would help me do audits for two financial years. please clarify. thanks.
That depends on your CA. Typically they will charge per year (audit+filing)
Hello,
Can money paid to CA be claimed as a business expense?
Thank you.
YEs
Hai, I am new to trading. I don’t have any other income except this. I hope I can pay the tax as per normal tax slab. My doubt is I have my savings in hand, if I am investing more than 3 lakh in the same year should I pay any tax. If yes in what basis? And that income has gained for 5 years ( not exceeding every year in the income tax slab)
Hmm… You don’t have to pay any tax if you are investing with money for which you have already paid tax or is exempt (saved over 5 years). yes, tax is per normal slab.
Dear Sir,
I have been doing this intraday trading for about six months on Zerodha the excellent brokerage Platform .I have been receiving awesome service support from concerned Zerodha personnel for which conveying my sincere thanks to all.However ,I need a small clarification on taxation aspect.
My P&L details as of now i.e 16/03/2017 are as follows as per the P&L statement shown in Q-Back office:
A)NSE-FO:Realised Profit +Rs 7,094.25 while total brokerage and other charges appears to be Rs 28,016.09. Accordingly the Net realized profit works out to –Rs 20,921.84/-.The turnover is working out to Rs 42,741.75.
B)NSE-EQ:Realised Profit -Rs 8,384.50 while total brokerage and other charges appears to be Rs 27,283.95.Accordingly the Net realized profit works out to –Rs 35,668.45/-. The turnover is working out to Rs 64,381.00.
Q 1:As per the wonderful date furnished by Zedodha in Varsity,I will use ITR 4 form for submitting returns scheduled to be submitted before 31 st July 2017. Since I have incurred some non-speculative F&O trading loss, this can be set-off against other income like rent & FD interest etc.I am a retired person and hence no other income like Salary. Since the NSE FO profit of Rs 7,094.25 on the Turnover of Rs 42,741.75 is working out to 16.59% i.e not below 8% of turn over,I need not arrange any audit as far as the profit obtained and also basing on turn over .Please confirm whether my understanding is correct as above?
Q 2:Whether this NSE FO loss and NSE EQ loss can be set off against other incomes like interest,Rentals etc ?
1. yes
2. NSE FO loss can be. NSE equity trades intraday loss can’t be. NSE short term trades (overnight delivery trades) if shown as a business income, can be.
In the q-backoffice (ZERODHA kite ) website , I am unable to open “Tax P&L for FY 2013-14 ” from past 15 days.
Request you to kindly rectify it.
We don’t have data for 13/14 on Q. You can visit bo.zerodha.com (using ie) and pul P&L statement. You will have to manually calculate turnover and all.
Hi Nithin,
Thanks a lot for putting up this page! I have a specific question. If, lets say, I have 100 Shares of company X in my account which i purchased 6 months back. Now, today, I trade (Sell first and then buy) 100 shares making a profit of total 100 Rs. At the end of the day, my account will continue to have 100 shares and I come out with a profit of 100 Rs. The question is, will this 100 Rs. be treated as Intraday profit or Short term gain? Although I understand that they are taxed the same way but I want to be sure that if after 6 months from today when I sell the 100 balance shares in my account, will I count that as Long term (1 year ) capital gain or short term (6 month) profit ?
Thanks a lot
It will be treated as intraday profit. Yes, you can hold it for 6 more months and get LTCG benefit.
Hi Nithin,
I have 2 queries w.r.t. the Tax Harvesting concept. And now I am more confused looking at your reply to Vagisha just above. This is regarding the technicalities in the way Tax Harvesting is to be done. I never did it till date.
–
Query 1: I had 200 shares of Coal India on which I was making 4K loss. I thought of adjusting the same against my other STCG profit. So today, I first bought 200 additional shares and then sold 200 shares. But you said to Vagisha’s query that, it will be treated as intraday. So my loss of 4K is not adjusted to my other STCG profits. How are we supposed to execute such trade in order to have it not fall under intraday ? Should we sell and wait for a day and only then buy back ? But in that case, we cannot ensure that we are getting the shares at the same price. Even in your article you said – “immediately getting back on the same trade”. But then it will be treated as intraday na ? It won’t help us book the loss.
–
Query 2: If you see carefully, myself and Vagisha did it in 2 different sequences. We both had some shares in our demat. I first bought additional shares and then sold. Vagisha first sold and then bought back. Does this sequence impact how the transaction will be treated, or are they both considered as intraday ? If both are intraday, how do we do tax harvesting without a price-risk ?
–
Thanks in advance for your valuable suggestion & help.
1. Yep, you can’t sell and buy back and consider it as tax loss harvesting. I haven’t said that anywhere. What you can do is sell on one exchange and buyback on the other. In such a case, the shares are actually delivered to the other exchange.
2. They are both intraday. Sell on NSE, buy back on BSE or vice versa.
Thanks Nithin for the clarification. I would suggest to update the course material to highlight this use of 2 different exchanges for tax loss harvesting. It is a very useful suggestion which you provided. I think the original course material does not have it explicitly written. Some new comer like me might get confused. Thanks for your help.
The reason it is not written explicitly is because it is a grey area. 🙂 Do speak to your CA about this.
Hi Nithin Sir,
Kindly guide me about my quiry:
I have income below 2.5 lacs and f & O Loss of 78000 rs with HAVING just 90 scprit(total 180 entries with BUY And SELL)transaction in P N L statement of FY 2015-16.
Q: (1)which itr to be filled ?
(2)is it auditable ?
(3)should i even have to fill return ?
Q(4) if file return will it be speculative or Non speculative ??
4. F&O loss is non-speculative. You can carry forward for 8 years.
1. ITR4
2. yeah
3. I know your income level is below the tax slab. But it is better to file to avoid getting any letter/notice asking you why you have trading transactions and no ITR filed.
There is a calculation mistake here :-
“Total income (salary + business) = Rs.1,000,000 (salary income) + Rs.100,000 (Profits from F&O trading) + Rs.100,000 (Intraday equity trading) = Rs 12,000,000/-”
Total income should be Rs 12,00,000/-
In 5.2
AS PER VARSITY TOPIC —— Turnover and Tax audit
When is audit required?
An audit is required if you have a business income and if your business turnover is more than Rs 2 crores (was Rs 1 crore until FY 16/17) for the given financial year. Audit is also required as per section 44AD in cases where turnover is less than Rs.2 Crores but profits are lesser than 8% of the turnover and total income is above minimum exemption limit.
HOW MY CASE IS AUDITABLE ??
You have made a loss of Rs 78000, which means it is less than 8% of your turnover. So yeah, you would need.
sir
your answers are bit CONFUSING……
you answer to first question of this chapter of ARSHDEEP…
1. If your net income for the year (trading + everything else) is less than 2.5lks, you don’t have to pay any taxes, and hence no audit will be required. But if your net income for the year is above 2.5lks and if you make a trading loss (F&O or intraday equity), yep you need to get an audit.
AND YOU TELLING ME TO GO THROUGH AUDIT EVEN MY INCOME BELOW 2.5 LAKHS.
Ah.. my bad.. I thought you said your turnover is over 1 crore.
Hi Nithin Sir,
rather taxation related to trading is confusing for ordinary people.
and are doing great on this part with spreding out tax literacy among the investor and traders.
i have been confused about audited part…
thanking you for your responce…
[28/03, 10:58 pm] Puja Gupta: Income tax liability. PL advise if a person incurred loss in F ND O stock trading still he has to file income tax return.More over if he earns profit what percentage of profit he should deposit to Income authority.Apart from this what is turn over limit of trade to be audited in a FY. My ref DP1952:advising mob 9358114248 no ND E mail [email protected] .Matter urgent please sdvice.
Puja, if you can go through all chapters of this module, all your questions are answered. No quick answers to this. Yes even in loss, best to file ITR if trading on markets. Profit gets added to your income and tax paid according to the income tax slab. If turnover more than 2 crores or if profit less than 8% of turnover, audit required.
Can depreciation on car can be claimed as an expense while calculating taxable income from FNO trading?
If you are not using car for trading, best not to claim depreciation benefit. If you are running a business (in this case F&O), only related costs can be claimed for.
Hi,
I have 2 questions
1) My turnover was 1.3 crs for FY 16-17 and total income in negative (i.e 3 lacs loss)
Is the audit required as its below 2 cr.
2) Can i offset my F&O losses which i have carry forwarded against any other business income in subsequent years.
Thanks
1. Yeah u will
2. Yes, but you have to file returns on time.
But the turnover should be more than 2 crores right??
mine is less
You need an audit if your profit is less than 8% of your turnover as well.
@Nitin – found this.
b) The contract is settled otherwise and squared up by paying out the difference which may be positive or negative. As such, in such transaction the difference amount is ‘turnover’.
The “difference” and Not everything.
So, for a sake of argument , if I buy NIFTY 1500 shares and I sell and buy 50 times at the same rate – turnover is ZERO as oppose to INR 675000000. (taking NIFTY @ 9000).
No audit is required.
Narang, turnover is not contract turnover. It is absolute sum of all profits and losses. So yeah, in that case it is 0, if you keep buying and selling at same price.
Thanks Nitin. BTW .. I really appreciate you taking your personal time and helping the community members with their queries (most of the time repetitive queries) .. People like you are are very rare nowadays. I wish i could be like you. 🙂
Also, I have been reading your replies in past 2 days on various threads .. you have great patience 🙂
Coming back to the topic –
“Absolute sum of all profits and losses” being 2+ CR !! wow !!!!!! we have some good traders here then 🙂
Just to be sure again Nitin,
If I BUY NIFTY 3000 shares @ 9000 and SELL @ 9001 and I repeat this 100 times in a financial year.
So for income tax perspective my turnover is 3000*1*100 = INR 3,00,000 right ? and not INR 5,40,03,00000.
Kindly confirm.
Thanks.
Thanks 🙂 , yes it i s Rs 3lks and not Rs 540 crores. 🙂
Hi Nithin – I am a Zerodha Trading Account holder & my only income (or loss) is from Stock trading (Intraday & Delivery), wanted to check which ITR Form needs to be filled in? and does it require any CA assistance. Thanks in Advance.
ITR 4. yeah, best to take some CA assistance for this. Do go through all the chapters of this module, everything explained in detail.
Sir , in P&L ledger in Kite BO , the profit shown there includes BROKERAGE or without brokerage ?
There is a gross P&L and net P&L after charges.
1. I am having a short-term profit of 10000Rs for this year along with a salary income. Last year, I had filed my IT returns on ITR-2 with 9000Rs loss
Total turnover this year : 150000
Should I file ITR-2 this year or ITR-1? As there are changes done in ITR forms this year as per this link https://blog.tax2win.in/new-itr-forms/
2. Also will there be any difference if I file IT Returns for wife’s account where she made a profit of 10000Rs (only short term profits in equity, No FNO transactions)in 2016-17 (No other income)
ITR 2 has to be used for both you and your wife.
Sir turnover ka 8 percent kaise count hota hai. Jaise short term mein kisi ne 1crore ke share buy or sell kiye. Uska ise turnover par 8 percent profit count hoga ya phir jo payment or receipt bank a/c se hue.
8% on sum of all P&L. Check the chapter on turnover.
Hi Nitin sir
I am a mtech student and receives 12,400 as a stipend from mhrd and i have no other income sources …i got around 6.25 lakh as a profit in F&O so during calculation for my tax stipend money counted as my income or not?
Yes, stipend has to be shown as salary income.
Hi, what are the consequences of NRI doing intraday trading?
Hi Nithin,
I had a question?
If I had filled ITR4 last year due to loss so that i could carry forward the loss. My main income is from salary.
N dis yr if the trading turnover is less then 1 cr and in profit, which itr do I need to file?
Do i need CA to file dis year ITR also or can i do in on my own?
Do I need to maintain book of accounts and i need to file ITR1?
Regards,
Mahadish
You still need to use ITR4. Best to use a CA for filing the returns. If your profit is less than 8% of turnover, you will anyways need to go to a CA for audit.
Thanks 🙂
If profit is more than 8% of turnover do i need to maintain books of account?
Or can i myself file ITR4?
You can file using ITR4. But you will need an audit if turnover more than Rs 2crores.
i wanted to know that if turnover is 1.9 crore of which loss is 30 lacs,
and the only business is trading.
is audit required?
and also if we carry forward these losses under business as trading
and next year change business as a consultant?
can we offset the losses of trading with the consultancy business in subsequent years?
thanks
what if i take all my income and invest in stocks before filing tax that year
That will be application of your money. On the income you still have to pay tax.
Hi Nithin,
Kudos to your great efforts. Appreciate the way in which you respond to all the queries. Appreciate your patience and commitment.
I have a quick question, I am not sure, if its already asked, but I am trying my luck. Are the gains in F&O taxed at flat 15% or 30% or is it as per the tax slab of an individual.
Thanks and regards,
Asif Ayyub
Asif, as per the tax slab.
Thank you for this wondrful and simple explanation. Also appreciate how responsive you have been and how much effort has been put to keep this page updated and relevant (for example, it was updated that as per this years needs, people have to fill ITR3 and not ITR 4 anymore).
My question is slightly tangential yet relevant and it is the following – What if the person derives profits by solely trading F&O globally, i.e. not in markets in India but in markets abroad. Will all the above set of rules about taxation, tax rates, tax slabs, audit needs as per turnover and profit %, need to declare it as a non-speculative business income etc remain the same or will there be any new colour or method to tackle that situation. Any pointers will be of help.
Thanks Ajit. Resident Indians aren’t allowed to trade international derivatives. If money is taken out in the LRS scheme, it can be used for only delivery based trades. But yeah, if you have international income, you’d have to first pay taxes as per the law of land whichever country you are trading from. Once the money comes back to India, you can get rebate of whatever tax paid in the other country.
am an active f&O trader. last year i got my books audit. but this year my turnover is less than 50 lacs and profit is just 30k. my total income including salary is less than 2.5 lacs. do i have to get my books audit this year also?”
hmm.. since no tax liability, not required.
hi,
i ve received a mail regarding submission of statement of financial transaction and form61 A filing..
last financial year my income is below taxable limit (im a day trader by profession)..and i did not have any high value transactions..
my question is..what is this form 61 A and is it compulsory to file it even though there are no high value transactions ?
will be really helpful, if you could guide in the right direction..
thanks..
This is required to be filed if you have received cash income of over Rs 2lks from anyone.
thanks for the reply ..
clear now..i don’t have to worry about it 🙂
sir,
I have joined ZERODHA just last year & will now be DECLARING MYSELF as a SHARE TRADER.
I stay in my OWNED FLAT IN MUMBAI ( I have no other HOUSE PROPERTY.
can I in my I TAX RETURNS…show the following as …..EXPENSES.
HOUSING SOCIETY maintenance & repair charges….electricity bills, internet bills,TV channels bills, MEDICLAIM & LIFE INSURANCE PREMIUMS,… PROFFESSION TAX,…. TRADING charges like DEMAT AMC, STT, CTT, SERVICE TAX, STAMP DUTY, DP CHARGES,…MOBILE 4 G net to use …”” KITE APP “” use…..etc,etc & similsr EXPENSES related to doing the BUSINESS OF SHARE TRADING
thank you,
tushar mody
Hi Nitin,
I had read quite a few articles on Zerodha and liked it. I had a few queries, if you could guide please?
1. I am new to share market and mostly take deliveries of shares and on very few occasions have done intraday (total profit of about Rs250 and no loss), I am a salaried individual, and was filing ITR1 till last year. Should I file ITR2 this year?
2. Can I deduct Demat transaction charges , brokerage charges and Demat AMC from my total profit to arrive at taxable profit amount?
3. Just to confirm I read that STT cannot be offset from profit, which means I have to add STT paid to my net profit before arriving at taxable amount? eg. Net profit in hand (made via delivery based trading) is say Rs. 500. Although I did not get the STT amount(RS 10), I need to add this amount and pay tax on Rs 500 + Rs. 10 = Rs 510
Please clarify if possible.
Thanks in advance. 🙂
1. Yes ITR2 if delivery trading. ITR3 for delivery + Intraday.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. STT can’t be taken as an expense. That is because you get the benefit of long term capital gain being 0.
🙂
Thanks a lot for your time and guidance, for short term capital gains also can’t I take STT as expense?
No, since you get the benefit of a max tax slab of 15%
Hello,i am confused with the first example given at the beginning of the chapter.The total income is shown as 12,00,000 and tax liability is shown as 1,85,000,how is this calculated? the tax should be 30% of 12 lakhs.
Hi, my salary is 500000 and my turnover is more than 2 crore . During financial year in first month I got profit of 7 lakh and in next month I lost 6 lakh in intraday trading, so my question is on how much money I need to pay tax ex. 5+7 =11 or 5+7-6=6 lakh.. Please help
5+7-6 of course. You pay taxes based on your net profit across the financial year.
I have two source of incomes one is from below stock market, MF and income from my bank fixed deposit of around 50K as interest and do not have any other income.
Equity:
INTRADAY GROSS PROFIT₹-81,692.44
INTRADAY TURNOVER₹1,97,016.32
SHORT TERM GROSS PROFIT₹35,195.46
SHORT TERM TURNOVER₹30,90,356.26
Currency:
FUTURES GROSS PROFIT ₹-16,340.00
OPTIONS GROSS PROFIT N/A
TOTAL GROSS PROFIT ₹-16,340.00
FUTURES TURNOVER ₹16,340.00
TOTAL TURNOVER ₹16,340.00
TOTAL CHARGES ₹13,679.02
Mutual Fund (Debt fund) – 10K (Redeemed before 1 year)
Mutual Fund (Equity Fund) – 25K (Redeemed after 1 year)
1. Whatever loss came, I am okay for that and do not want to file ITR. Is that okay and fine as I feel that my total income is not exceeding 2.5L ?
2. If at all i have to file, then which ITR is best to use and how can my above transactions(business or short term) to be shown to make things simpler and to avoid CA or audit ?
3. I need to pay some advance tax only when my total income crosses 2.5Lakh right ? If I am sure that my total income will not cross 2.5L limit, do i still need to pay advance tax ?
4. One of my friend has a question, Her short term turnover is above 1 crore, but her profit is very less than 6 % of turnover and also she has no other incom which means she has total income of around just 1L for that year. In this case, does she need to file ITR and if so, which form and is audit required ?
5. Another general question, If I have long term capital gain from equity mutual fund of around 1.5Lakhs (which is tax exempted) and have interest of around 50K(Fixed deposit). Do I need to mention 1.5L from MF in ITR or i have to just mention only the interest of 50K in ITR ?
1. Technically you don’t need to file ITR. But it is always better, you might get one of those automated notices asking why you haven’t filed even though you are investing/trading.
2. ITR3, since your turnover is extremely less, there will be no need of audit.
3. You don’t have to pay advance tax. Yes, you are right.
4. If equity delivery investing is all she is doing, then she can show this as capital gain. There is no concept of calculating turnover/audit requirement in that case.
5. You have to mention the long term gain in your ITR, it automatically will take it as exempt income.
For the Question 4, She has done intraday trading also. Below is her report,
INTRADAY GROSS PROFIT ₹87,953.32
INTRADAY TURNOVER ₹1,01,546.22
SHORT TERM GROSS PROFIT ₹-1,83,060.61
SHORT TERM TURNOVER ₹1,09,50,682.13
Her short term turnover is above 1 crore, but her profit is very less than 6 % of turnover and also she has no other incom which means she has total income of around just 1L for that year. In this case, 1. does she need to file ITR and if so, 2. which form and is audit required ?
Even though income is under taxable income, it is best to file ITR. If you don’t file there is a small risk of getting a notice asking you why you haven’t filed even though there are transactions on the stock market. So ITR4 and yeah best to get it audited since the turnover is more.
Hi Nithin Sir,
I have taken personal loan from bank, and I trade in intraday and F&O , can i show the EMI of the loan in the balance sheet of ITR ?
Yep.
Hi Nithin
If I were to take a personal loan and use the amount to trade in F&O, what would be the treatment of outgoing EMIs. Can they be treated as business expenses? Asking it because i didn’t see a mention of the same in the article.
Yes it is an expense for you.
I am a salaried employee, here are my details below :-
INTRADAY GROSS PROFIT₹-4,556.95
INTRADAY TURNOVER₹5,966.95
SHORT TERM GROSS PROFIT₹6,201.45
SHORT TERM TURNOVER₹1,19,224.15
LONG TERM GROSS PROFIT N/A
LONG TERM TURNOVER N/A
TOTAL CHARGES ₹1,684.11
(1) Which form do I need??
(2) Do I need to get a audit for doing just 5 intraday trades in the whole year??
Plus my total taxable income from salary is 275810. I used Cleartax with Salary and Short Term Capital Gains, it shows no tax liability and a refund also ( mostly tax deducted from bank). So do I need to get a audit here or I can just don’t mention little intraday turnover of Rs 5966 in the ITR forms??
Hmm.. tricky one Anurag, ideally ITR3 because you have business income (intraday). But since the turnover is so small, you can take a call.
INTRADAY GROSS PROFIT ₹87,953.32
INTRADAY TURNOVER ₹1,01,546.22
SHORT TERM GROSS PROFIT ₹-1,83,060.61
SHORT TERM TURNOVER ₹1,09,50,682.13
Short term turnover is above 1 crore, but profit is very less than 6 % of turnover and also no other income. In this case,
1. Is it fine not to file ITR ?
2. If ITR is required, which ITR form to be used ?
3. Is Audit required ?
1. Best to file, since there is decent amount of turnover.
2. ITR3 to declare capital gains and business income (intraday).
3. Short term turnover if shown as capital gains, no audit requirement. Intraday your turnover is small and profit more than 6% of turnover, so audit not required.
sir, please provide us with the trading strategies module as soon as possible
Pranay, we are focused on delivering the current module on Risk Management. Will take up trading strategists once this is done.
I am availing of TradeTax’s tax filing services since it’s your partner and geared for traders.
My turnover is less than 2 crores but my net income is negative. So according to my understanding from your taxation module, since my turnover is less than 2 crores, my profit is less than 8% of turnover and my income is less than 2.5 lakhs, I don’t need an audit. However the TradeTax CA said since I have to show losses, it’s compulsory to get an audit.
Please clarify.
As per section 44AD, there is an exception for people whose income less than 2.5lks. Maybe u can let the CA know about it (Cleartax in turn has partner CA’s).
Thanks for the reply, Nithin.
Hi Sir,
I don’t have salary income.
FD interest income: 85000
Equity Cash – delivery Turnover: 41,00,000 (Forty one lakhs).
No Intraday or F&O
Short term Capital Gains: 5900/-
Shall I fill ITR-2, and also no audit is required right Sir, if I understood correctly.
Yes ITR2 is enough.
Thank you for reply sir, I am submitting my ITR 2 through clear tax, the CA is saying audit mandatory, as my capital gains less than 8% of turnover.
I don’t have salary income.
FD interest income: 85000
Equity Cash – delivery Turnover: 41,00,000 (Forty one Lakhs) which includes Buy + sell + Brokerage others
No Intraday or F&O
Short term Capital Gains: 5900/-
Thanks
Ganapathi
Hmm.. no audit is required if there is only capital gains. There is no concept of turnover in case of capital gains/equity investing. Do speak to the CA again.
Sir, is it possible to put presumptive income in ITR 2, am willing to pay tax with 6% on turnover, as it is coming cheaper for me instead of Audit.
Not ITR2, but on ITR4
Thank you sir,
I have asked CA for ITR 2 and also getting audited.
what are all the documents he will give me after auditing.
and These audited docs should I keep with me for future reference or should I upload some where ?
I am from Tier-2 city don’t want to go only by my CA’s word. So double checking.
Ganapathi, there is no concept of auditing an ITR2. You don’t need this to be done. Auditing is required only in case of business income and not for capital gains.
I have short term delivery based turnover of 85 lac(on sell side) & intraday turnover (i.e, summarization of intraday profit & loss) is 932000.
my net position is short term delivery trade = loss is 14 lac and intraday day = net loss is 2 lac. therefore net total loss = 16 lac
i declare myself as trader and treat trading as business income. i don’t have any other source of income. therefore pls answer
1. do i need to go for audit . please clarify also.
2. do i need to maintain books of accounts.
3. can i carry this loss(16 lac) without audit to be carried forward. as most of people said though my turnover is less than 2 crore, but i have substantial losses, so it is better to get audit done. please share your views on this matter.
thanking you
It is best to maintain book of accounts and getting an audit done when this is your only source of income. But since your total income is less than 2.5lks, it is not mandatory.
Suppose,If I received dividends worth Rs.5000 in financial year 2016-2017, can I use ITR 1 form to file returns and declare the same Rs.5000 in 80TTA section.(as the amount is less than 10000)? Or should 80TTA section be used only specifically for interest recieved on savings account.
80TTA is deduction only for savings bank interest. You need to use ITR2.
IN CONTINUATION OF MY QUESTION ON 15 JUNE 2017 & YOUR REPLY, I WANT TO ADD THAT IF I HAVE A COMMISSION INCOME OF 2.25 LAC AND NET LOSS OF AROUND 16 LAC & TURNOVER OF AROUND 85 LAC (vastly explain above). then also i don’t have to go for audit, as my income is less than 2.50 lac. please clarify.
thank you for your quick response.
Yes Arun. But, I’d still suggest you to take advice of your CA.
I have 3L salary income . But i have 40K net loss in trading intra day . Turnover more than 10 crores both sell and buy. Do i need a tax audit?
Dear Sir,
I have incurred intraday loss of Rs. 38,000/- in financial year 2016-17
Please resolve my following queries:-
1. Am i required to prepare profit and loss account and Balance Sheet ?
2. Can i claim following charges as expenses
STT
turnover charges
brokerage charges
d-mat charges
annual maintenance charges
internet charges
1. Yea
2. yea
Hello i have only a trading income, no other income and i have made a gain of 14256 after Setting off all the Profits and losses i have made, My purchases total amounts to 694019 and sales have totalled 355051 and some equitys are lying can u suggest whether i need to pay any tax on the gain i have made.
There is no tax to pay, but best if you can file your ITR.
Can I claim Stamp duty charges as expenses?
Yeah.
if i have f&o income and my income is far below taxeble income .is it necessary to submit it returns .wat happens if i failed to fill returns (my turnover is below 1 cr. less than 8% profits?
yes best to file ITR, otherwise chance of getting a notice asking reason why not filed.
Hi Nitin,
I had a turnover of 50 lacks and incurred a loss of 230000 in F&O trading. My salaried income was 600000 and filed ITR1 instead of ITR4
resulted in not showing trading losses. So i got a notice from income tax officer for scrutiny and now he is asking me to pay tax on 8% of income on 50 lacks. Even i had a loss he is asking me to pay tax. So i need your suggestion on this. Is there any way i can avoid paying tax?
Hmm.. Neel the 50lks of turnover the way you have calculated might be to determine if u need an audit or not. You can ledger book, show sum of all settlement credits and debits as turnover and maybe pay tax on 8% of that. It will be I am guessing much lesser than the 50lks u have calculated. If he is demanding, there is no real way to avoid. But you can show this turnover much lesser and pay lesser.
hello nitin bhai, I am a clinet of zerodha, I am a govt. serviceman,zerodha clinet id -RM4007, actually it is registered in my wife’s name, she is a housewife. I generally do commodity trading. The bank account linked with trading account is joint account with my wife. Now i have some profits less than 2.5 lakhs. Please tell me while filling income tax, how to file these profits, i mean, as income of my wife or as income of me? After reading some online sites, I am confused. I generally file ITR 1.
You can file it in her name and show the money given to her as gift. Btw, you need to use ITR3 for this.
Sir i have a query. In 2016-17 as per zerodha site
COMMODITY TRADING TURNOVER :- 313000
loss is 74000.
So as i am in loss, is file is mandatory or not. suppose I am not want to carry forward the loss.Please reply thanks
Hi Nithin,
I am a salaried employee (~4.2 lpa) and i did intraday equity trading with turnover ~1300/-, gross profit ~20/-, charges ~300/-. I am also holding some shares for about 9 months (i started trading less than a year ago). So which ITR I need to use? can I use ITR4/4s and declare profit as 8% of turnover? do i need to declare any Capital gains?
Yes, you can use ITR3 (earlier called ITR4) and do this quite easily. Yeah, you can declare capital gains.
Thanks for the reply Nithin. my doubt is, i did not get any profits from my holding as i am still holding them. i want to keep them as long term investment (more than 1 year). in that case how should i declare them? can i show the holdings as investments or i need to provide profit/loss details on these holdings.
You can show as investments.
Is GST related to any share market transaction. do we have to register for GSTN. please clarify if GST is related to our market activity.
Not required only for trading.
Hi Nitin, registering for GSTIN is not required for trading, but if the turnover or the profit exceeds 20 Lakhs, then ?
Even then, not required.
Sir, I have a trading account at Zerodha platform. This account has F&O turnover of above 1 Cr in FY 17. As the account is for personal capacity (not a registered business or any entity), do I need the account to get audited? Please note that my income source is only the salary which I get from my employer. Thanks in advance for suggestion.
If your profit is more than 8% of the turnover, then no need to unless your turnover more than 2 crores. Otherwise yes.
I have earnings of 275000/- Rs. Per year.
I am beginner to zerodha.
I want to do intraday trading.
I have 85000 Rs margin available in my zerodha account.
How much intraday transaction I can do ?
Is there any limit for doing trading for one day?
Can there be any income tax inquiry on trading too much every day ?
I know what if profit/loss.
For example,
If I am doing intraday trade of 15 lacs per day then is it ok or I can not trade
That much according to my yearly earning ??
There is no limit on how much turnover you can do intraday. As long as you are declaring your trading income, no issues with how much turnover.
Dear sir
I hv zerodha account. I m h/w and my only income For year 2016-2017 is mentioned below :
Turnover MCC commodity. Rs 70,000.00
Profit rs. 40228.00
Fixed deposit interest 15000,
My query
1. I need audit of account?
2. Which ITR FORM to be used.
3. Is it required to submit turnover and p&l statement and fd interest proof while filing it return.
Or just I have to keep the record for future.
Pls guide mr.
1. Check the chapter on turnover.
2. ITR3
3. Not required while filing ITR.
Thanks sir for the reply.
I read the turnover chapter and I understand that since my turnover is rs 70000 (less than 1 or 2 cr) and profit (earn from commodity and f n o) is more than 6% so I don’t required audit of my account and need to file using ITR 3 .
Am i right sir ?
Yes.
My income as Salary -620000, Interest 58250 out of which claimed 10000 u/s 80tta.. ST capital gain 2789, intra day loss 587 ( turnover 44889), professional income (ins commsn)171 and iam claiming 150000 under 80c and 7958 under 80D… Audit is required for this? or i can file myself using ITR3? previous year i filed ITR4S as no cgt/ intra day transaction. kindly guide me. Thanks
Since your turnover is less, you can maybe declare 8% of this turnover as profit and let go of the loss. This way you can avoid audit. Otherwise, since profit is less than 8% of turnover, audit will be required.
Hi Nithin
Thanks for your reply. I have a query reg speculation loss (intra day loss Rs 587 mentioned above it is 554). I traded through demat account from September 2016. For short term trade- Sale value Rs 54,351 & Cost value Rs 51,833 , so i considered this as Short term gain Rs 2518 @15% CGT, For Long term, Sale value Rs 3221 & Cost Value Rs 2904 as a result of Long term gain Rs 316 which is exempted from tax i believe. Regarding Intra-day transaction, Sale value Rs 48,991 & Cost value Rs 49,545 as a net result of Rs.554. When i read about turnover, sum of both positive or negative from trade as Turnover. My question is Turnover and profit/loss from intra-day are same? In my case, SV 48,991 & CV 49,545 so the difference is minus 554.
Apart from above trading, I have an insurance income Rs 1064 (out of which i claim Adhoc expenses Rs 354), so i declare professional income Rs.709. Also I have a salary income Rs620,000. Kindly advise how to declare intra day transaction in IT return as the net figure is minus 554.
Turnover can be calculated in multiple ways, check the chapter on turnover. In the ITR 3 form, you can show intraday speculative business income. Do go through the ITR forms chapter.
Hello Nithin Sir,
Thanks for your reply. I have calculated my turnover for intr-day transaction as Rs 679.95 (based on absolute positive and negative transaction). Shall i declare profit Rs. 54.40 (i.e 8% of Rs679.95) and show it as Serial no.53(i) of profit & loss account in ITR3 (i.e.presumptive business income i think), Apart from this i declare Short term gain Rs.2518(15% on gain)? If is it okay, then Kindly confirm is it 8% or 6% of turnover.
Thanks for your valuable service…..
Yeah you can – best 8%.
Hi Nitin
My loss in fno is 7,33,000 & my turnover is less than crores. I also have some commission income but my net income including trading loss is still negative. So do i need to get an audit?
If it is less than 2 crores and total income below tax slab, then you need not. But best to have it done. Also consult your CA.
thanks for the reply
i do stock market trading and show it as my business income while filing IT returns. do i have anything to do with GST. Do i need to register for GSTN etc. will gst be included in my contract note. kindly clarify
thanking you
No, not required to do anything.
Really appreciate you for replying to the queries personally. Can you enlighten on the set off against following charges :-
Internet/phone bills if used for trading (portion proportionate to your usage on the bill)
Depreciation of computer/other electronics (used for trading)
Rental expense (if the place used for trading, if a room used – portion of your rent)
Salary paid to anyone helping you trade
Advisory fees, cost of books, newspapers, subscriptions and more…
How to claim these charges ?
Thanks.
You will have to show them as expenses on ITR3. Check the sample ITR form in the chapter on ITR forms. Best to consult a CA to fill this for u.
Also, kindly update and edit the pdf as the articles have been edited with relevant new info.
Thanks
Ah, having it done.
where to show the speculation profit and loss in capital gain in ITR -2 ??
I have salary of 8lakhs
Speculation loss 4K
non speculation profit 10K
You will need to fill ITR 3
Can i fill IT3 without audit ?
my commodities trading turnover is around 15cr.
can i fill up it return by profit/loss report or i have to calculate all contract note??
Check the chapter on turnover. Turnover is not trading turnover, but sum of all P&L. I don’t think it will be 15 crores.
SIR, I am zerodha a/c holder. I am doing intraday in cash only.my financial details for 2016-17 are as such.
1. Pension Amt 300000.
2. Salary Amt 420000.
3. Intraday loss 150000
4. do I need audit.
yeah, best to get it done.
Sir,
1.a company or a professional having shown 8% profit & paid tax as accordingly, do they need to get the accounts audited by CA as per 44AB & 44AD;
2. when these (above 8% NP kind) people or companies go to bank for financial borrowings, why banks insist for CA signature inspite of being tax paid genuinely for 8% Profit
i am not against accounts being audited but i need clarity about this 8% Np>>tax paid thing
1. Company doesn’t get benefit of 44AB and 44AD. For professional the slab is 50% of turnover.
2. Bank will ask a CA to certify. But this is different than getting an audit done for your ITR. They are two separate things.
Sir,
I had made profit of Rs.5,35,000 from F&O segment from Apr-17 to June-17, I don’t have any other income,
Is Advance Tax is must?… and when I have to pay ?….. Please clarify….
Yes advance tax is needed. I have mentioned the dates in the chapter above.
sir,
I have intrest income,I want to carry forward the losses of STCG,INTRADAY,FO loss of FY 16/17.Which ITR form is for me?
ITR3
Hi Nithin
I trade in F&O and that’s the only source of income. So I file ITR4. I have some cash market investments held for more than 5 years and if I book them, is it part of business income now or non taxable investment which need not be declared? Since I plan to get started on doing cash trades also (and show that as business income) how should I treat my existing cash holdings? Would it make a difference if I get started with a new broker? (The old holdings can then clearly be shown as a long term holding).
Regards
You can show it as long term exempt income. You need not open another account in your name itself, you can show that separately within same demat. But if you are concerned, maybe move the long term into some immediate family members demat – wife/husband/father/mother/son/daugther.
Hi Sir, I want to know how to check short term or long term capital gain by login in to zerodha demat account
Go to Q.zerodha.com, go to reports, and search for tax P&L
Dear Sir,
As I got a good response from Equity Market( fully thanks to you), I am planning to Redeem my Mutual Fund and trade in FnO Segment.
My Question is
(1) Is my Redeemed amount is my income or the Business Capital. What is the Tax liability?…
(2) If I Redeem my Wife’s MF and transfer this amount to my trading A/c and work, then I have to pay any type of tax?…. for the Redeemed amount or it will treated as loan…… or It will also be Business Capital..
As I trade in FnO Segment and my only source of Income is FnO segment
1. Redeemed amount is capital gains income. 15% if short term and 0 for long term. Check the chapter for investors.
2. No, it can be shown as gift from wife.
Dear sir
I have speculavite loss of one lakh in intraday . And i have non speculative loss of 1.5 lakh in f&o apart from that i dont have any income which itr form should i file.
REGARDS
ITR3
Hi Nitin,
I have traded in Commodity Market and not an Intraday transaction , incurred a loss of 110000 and want to carry forward the loss to next Financial year.
I dont have any other income and i filled Return as capital gain short term loss in ITR-2.
In the site observed we need to file ITR-3. Please let me know the filling of Capital gain short term loss in ITR-2 is correct and if it is wrong what can i do for rectifying the return.
Thank you for the support Nitin.
Regards,
Suresh
Sir I trade in future currency and commodity .I want to know how to calculate a turnover and taxation on the which basis.And how i know my turnover is over 1 crore or below 1 crore
I have losses in FNO ,but i want to show 8 % of Profit. how can i show 8 % Profit. My Turnover is 9 lakh Only.
You can show the profit while filing ITR.
Hi Nitin,
I had made losses of approx. Rs. 2.4 lakhs in FO in FY 16 and i filed the ITR4 form with the help of CA before due date to take the benefit of carry forward losses. Also at that time i dont have any other income so i didn’t audited my accounts. Now i started working in July,16 and earning income of around 6 lcs per annum. My queries are:-
a) I made a profit of Rs 14K through IPO allotment of DMART (sold on the listing day). But in your Tradewise Turnover statement it is showing profit as Rs 1.3K only and presenting it as intraday trade. So for tax point of view do i need to pay tax on Rs 14K or Rs 1.3K and consider it as STCG or intraday profit.
b) I had made a loss of Rs 55K in FO in FY17. So can i take profit mentioned in point (a) as business income although frequency of trade is low. But i will be able to offset my losses of FO
a. Since the IPO buying price is not captured on current version of Q, it might be like this. You can correct this P&L yourself.
b. No, you can’t setoff capital gains with business/F&O losses.
If my taxable income is Rs 2.1 lakhs from salary after taking benefits of HRA, Education Loan, LIC investments etc. and i have an income of Rs 10K as STCG and Rs 15K in FO. Do i need to pay any tax?
No, only if income exceeds 2.5lks you need to pay tax.
Hi Nitin,
I have traded in Commodity Market and not an Intraday transaction , incurred a loss of 110000 and want to carry forward the loss to next Financial year.
I dont have any other income and i filled Return as capital gain short term loss in ITR-2.
In the site observed we need to file ITR-3. Please let me know the filling of Capital gain short term loss in ITR-2 is correct and if it is wrong what can i do for rectifying the return.
Thank you for the support Nitin.
Regards,
Suresh
It is not correct. You need to show this as business loss on ITR3. You can rectify the returns now.
Hi,
My total non speculative business turnover is 36L and my gross P&L is -1,00,000(Loss of 1L)
TDS on bank interest is 7500
I decided not to file ITR as audit is required(Due to audit fees)
In this scenario is there any way to file ITR only for bank intrest TDS claim
If your total income is not taxable, you don’t need an audit. But make sure to declare your trading income on ITR, there are chance of receiving a notice asking why you didn’t if you don’t. (Similar to how if u deposit cash into your bank and not declare income).
Hi,
I have made a profit of 11256 on non-speculative income on turnover of 21 Lacs, while filing ITR 2, the total tax amount payable it is showing zero. But I thought I should pay 15% of 11256 as Short term capital Gain Tax. I have 92000 of FD interest also.
am I filling ITR 2 wrongly ? Kindly suggest.
Thanks
Nikhil
Tax is payable only if your total income exceeds 2.5lks. Since yours is below that, it is showing 0. So nothing wrong.
“Audit is mandatory if profit before tax is negative”. Receiving this error message in clear-tax website
Different CAs have different views on this.
Hi sir,
My cousin made a Long term capital loss of Rs. 2100 and Short term capital gain of Rs. 61000. This financial year she is doing SIP in mutual funds only no share transactions so she does not want to carry forward this long term capital loss.
Question is in the turnover section should she include Long term share transactions or not as she not claiming any loss.
Thanks
Nikhil 2
No concept of turnover when in comes to capital gains. So you can use ITR2 and show short and long term gains/losses. No point carrying forward the long term loss as it can’t be used anyways.
HI Sir,
So Long term Capital loss We are showing in ITR 2 only for compliance purpose as we cannot set off this loss in future any way ?
yea
Offsetting non-speculative business income needs to be done against total income or taxable income.
For example i have 100000 loss 1st year and 250000 gain 2nd year and 500000 gain in 3rd year. In this case, there is no taxable income in 2nd year so i can carry fwd the loss to 3rd year.
pls reply to this doubt
Needs to be setoff against total income.
It is mentioned a lot of times that if I have a loss in F&O then I need to Audit my accounts.
But under which section of Income Tax Act, a Derivative Trader is required to maintain and Audit his books of accounts?
Section 44AA is for Professional (legal/ doctor etc) – not applicable to me
Section 44AB (a) My turnover is less than 2cr – not applicable to me
Section 44AB (b) Not profession – not applicable to me
Section 44AB (c) Gains not under under section 44AE (plying/ hiring), 44BB (oil exploration), 44BBB (civil construction) – not applicable to me
Section 44AB (d) Profits are NOT deemed to be under 44AD (Presumptive taxation scheme) and I have not claimed this in any previous year – so not applicable to me.
Section 44AD is Optional, and the criterion of Profit less than 8% is only applicable if I chose to declare my gains under Section 44AD.
Correct?
Please clarify.
Thanks
Prashant – derivative trading is considered as a business income. So it’d fall in both 44AB and 44AD.
Hi, I am housewife , Trading from savings & Earn Profit from Intraday & Delivery base trading . Which ITR form i have to file.
ITR3
I have income from only below two sources, Which ITR to file and under which section income from commodity to be shown?
1) Commodity Future trading, turnover below 10Lakhs
2) Interest from FD & RD
ITR3
Hello Sir,
So Kotak allows you to open a Kotak 811 acount online very effortlessly, also, it can be used for trading.
So I called customer support sometime ago, had some doubt, she cleared it etc etc. So in the end she tells me if I maintain an amount of 20000+ then I get an 8% return anually.
Question-
1. What kind of income is this?
2. Will I have to pay tax on income earned?
I don’t think that it falls under FD as you don’t sign any such document. You don’t talk to a bank agent for an FD. You don’t consent to this. It’s like a bonus perk. Is this an FD? Confused!
ThankYou.
* 2. Will I have to pay tax on INTEREST earned?
1. Interest income
2. Yes. You add it to all your other income and pay tax on it as per the tax slab.
This is a savings bank account income. First 10k of interest, no tax to pay as per 80tta.
I Have Proprietary Business and Individually Traded in Commodity market and not an intraday trades, incurred a loss of 54000.
Can i set of the individual loss in Proprietary business as i am the only owner.
Please help me how can i file the return as the proprietary business and commodity trading as an individual is done on the same PAN Number(On Firm Name for business and on My Name for Commodity Trading)-Same PAN Number.
Which ITR need to be used for filling the return.
Please let me know before which date i need to submit the return.
Thanks Nitin.
Yes you can setoff commodity loss with your business income. ITR 3 needs to be used and last date is July 31st without audit. You will need to take help of CA to file though.
sir
suppose i bought 10lot usdinr future at 63.40 and sold these on 63.50 so what is my turnover ?
63.40*10000 + 63.50*10000? or turnover is 1000?
Rs 1000
SIR i want to know that if my overall profit is less then 2.5 lakh in a year as in fy 2016-17 and as i trade in currency fiture then i need tax audit or not?
when i go through q i find there that my profit is less then 2.5 lakh
Ravi, if you have done a lot of F&O turnover (over 1 crore), then it is best to audit. Turnover is not contract turnover, do go through all the chapters here.
gm sir
as in my previous query my turn over as you say is 1000 so it is a positive turnover ie it is a profit of 900 approx after deducting brokerage etc.
as all my trades has given me total turnover of 2 lakh and after deducting the brokerages taxes etc the profit is 175000 then i need tax audit or not?
If turnover is only 2lks, and your profit is more than 6%, yeah no need of audit.
I suppose the article should be updated based on the following ruling by Mumbai Income Tax Appellate Tribunal,
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/speculative-loss-or-profit-in-equity-here-comes-the-tax-balm/articleshow/56316095.cms
This article talks about hedging loses. We haven’t spoken about it in this chapter.But important to see that it talks about hedging losses only that can be setoff with equity gains.
My turnover from F&O trading in Zerodha is 11 Lacs and profit as 2 Lacs (no tax audit as profile > 8%) for FY 2016-17, along with LTCG & STCG from equity delivery trading & Mutual Fund/PMS investment. As I don’t understand how to create book of accounts, and as no tax audit is required, while filling ITR 3, can I say “no regular book of accounts are maintained” in ITR-3 and put the gross receipts, gross profit and expenses on “Profit & Loss” section and submit?
If profits is more than 6% of turnover Audit not required. You can fill the regular P & L or No account case. In case of No account you can put the Profit as Gross receipts.
Sir,
In FY 2016-17, I have traded equity delivery only where my net income is less than 1 lac, and some Tds for interest from saving acount
So which ITR form I have to fill, because after log in to incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in, there are two option is showing, ITR-1, and ITR-4
Please suggest
Thank you
ITR2
Dear Nithin
my f&o loss is 2.5 lakh and total turnover is around 10 lakh. short term profit is 65,000
i have bank intrest of rs 20,000 and no other income in India.
i beleive i need to submit ITR-3 form.
but should i need to do audit . please reply
regards
Arun
Yes ITR3, and since total income is below min tax slab and turnover less than 1 crore, no need of audit.
Thanks Nithin for the quick reply
i was concerned about audit as profits is less than 8% of the total turnover
Hi,
I have a net profit of 4 Lakhs in short term and a turn over of 70 Lakhs by trading of shares. Also by intraday trading, I have profit of 1 Lakh.
Can I show all this as my business income with a turnover of 71 Lakhs and pay 8% tax on that . I am saying 71 Lakhs because I read that for Intraday the difference in value is treated as turnover.
If so, which form should I file
Please help me regarding this
Thanks
Yes you can show all as business, but delivery as non-speculative and intraday as speculative. Delivery trades can also be shown as capital gains, in which case there is no need to calculate turnover. You need to use ITR3. Suggest you to go through the entire module on taxation once.
Hi Nitin,
Is there any specific regulation for private limited company trading in F&o?
Thanks
Shiv
No
I have a Pension Income,Long Term Capital Gains of 1 Lakh,Short Term Capital Gains 50000 and Derivative Losses to the tune of 1 Lakh on Shares traded through online platform.Turnover from all these share transactions is 28 Lakhs.At what rate 6% or 8%,shall I calculate Presumptive Income on this while preparing ITR-4 Sugam?
Turnover is required only in case of F&O and not your capital gains. You can do it at 6%.
Nithin,
for FY – 2016-17 My Futures Turnover (TO) is 1,76,204 and options TO with sell value is Rs.74,58,985 and actual TO
8,61,559 ( Total options TO is Rs.83,20,544)
And FY 2016-17 Gross profit (-92013) and charges 47856/- with charges total loss for FY 2016-17 is 1,39,869.
I wanted to carry forward this loss for next year. Do i need to get the my books of audit with CA. And which form i have to use for filing ITR for FY 2016-17.
I am not able find ITR-3 on line from incometaxindiaefiling.in.
regards
Srinivas Reddy Y
ITR3 and yeah best to get an audit done if turnover is higher.
and in ITR-3, i need to mention loss is Rs.92013/- or 139869/— pls confirm.
Loss will be along with all charges. So 1.39lks.
Hi Nitin,
Thanks for the article and help. I am happy with Zerodha trading, Commodity and Equity account.
Need your advise
Am salaried Individual who does F&O trading and Equity investing. My income under head Salaries is 12.7 L from my employer.
F&O Turnover is 26 L and Non Speculative loss is 50 K
Can I claim say 50% of Tata Sky cost, 33% depreciation on 50% of TV price (both at Home) as have to watch business channel. If yes it is about 15 K.
Other Expense which are related to F&O (advisory service, Phone, Internet etc ) 75K. So total expense will be 90K.
FD interest earned 40 K
So total loss will be 50 + 90 – 40 = 100 K or 1 L
Short Term Equity Profit is 7 L
Now the important question
Can I offset 1 L against 7 L equity profit and pay 15% tax (as short term capital gain tax) on the balance 6 L
Regards
Prashant
If those costs are due to your trading business, yes -you can. If short term equity is shown as capital gains, you can’t offset F&O loss. If you show that as business income, you can. But if you show it as business income tax will be as per your IT slab, which will be 30%. Double of the flat 15% on STCG.
Total turn over is 85 lakhs with 1.4 lakh loss, since turn over is below 1 Crores, is book to be audited, In case books to be audited by CA again I have to pay auditor fees..I feel it is better not to carry forward losses..Pls suggest.
If your total income is above 2.5lks, then yeah need to get audited.
Two Cases . Please suggest
Salary Income 2.90 Lac
Interset paid on HL:1.05 Lac
FNO Loss :1.30 Lac (Below 1 crore turnover)
2nd Case
Salary Income 2.80 Lac
FNO Loss :1.50 Lac (Below 1 crore turnover)
Audit Required or not ?
Hmm.. grey area. Best to get it done.
Hello Nithin Sir , I have Zerodha Trading & Demat Acc. Can you please explain me about intraday turnover and taxes about it .?
my annual salary income is below 2 lakhs . and i usually do intraday trading and some short term delivery . do i need to file income tax ?
Yes best to file ITR even if you don’t have tax to pay. Go through this module.
Hello Nithin,
My father is aged about 75 yrs and his only source of income is from FDs and the interest earned is around 280000.
1. we went to check with the CA on his and my mother’s income and the CA associate has created the account on ITR
2. Now, my father is involved in stocks and Shares
a. Speculation -6.75 Crores ( Buy +sell value) – Intraday
p/L is -10614.
b.Short term Capital Gain
Buy+sell Value = 84 Lakhs
p/l= 32000
c.Long term Capital Gain =
Buy + Sell Value = 6lakhs
p/l = -43218.37
d.Notional Loss/Gain
Buy + Sell Value = 55 lakhs
p/l =-246000
please let us know if an Audit is required?
Thanks
Amar
In case of capital gains, there is no concept of turnover. It comes into play only for intraday. Again for intraday it is absolute sum of all profits and losses. Check the chapter on turnover. He doesn’t have a taxable income, if turnover is less than 1 crore, no need of audit. But make sure to calculate turnover correctly.
Dear Nitin,
Thanks for your reply…
1. The Speculation is intraday and I did the turnover calculation as mentioned in your section
ABS(Loss) + Abs( Profit) and it comes to 56000+ which is the turnover.
Short term Capital Gain is 32478
Long term Gain is -43218.
FD Interest is around 200000
Critical illness exemption is 60000
1. So , I believe this does not need an Audit?
2. No need to file returns or should I?
You are too fast and too good!
Thanks
Amar
1. yeah, no need
2. Do file ITR3
One more point to add
is he is eligible for an exemtion of 60000 INR for critical illness
Hi Nithin,
Big thanks for your informative article. Need your advice,
Does Audit of the books required for below category ?
Salary income – 2.32 Lakhs
Turnover = 18.5 lakhs (FNO+Cash)
Profits after setoff losses = Rs 118477
profits are higher than 6% of the turnover
After deducting expenses, Total income comes around 2.8 Lakhs
Thanks,
Anand
Not required
Sir,
My Total turnover is Rs.1.56 crore (including cash+F&O+intraday) and total income is less than basic exemption limit – i.e. Rs.1,87,000/-.
My question is ~ do i need to get my account audited.
Thanks
hmm.. grey area.. since turnover is more, I’d suggest to get it done. But maybe consult a CA. Make sure you read the turnover chapter correctly
Dear sir my short term gains rs 950000 from 1.3 cr turnover
F&O loss rs 126000 intraday loss rs 55000 I don’t have any income from salery, business and professional and can claim my expenses like office rent internet bill and advisory services charges
And do this audit or not
Yeah, best to get audit done.
I am seeking advise on whether to form an LLP / Pvt Ltd company and trade through that or continue trading under my personal name. What are the benefits or disadvantages of forming a company / partnership firm for all trading purposes. I sometimes also have to borrow money on interest to trade and when I have surplus, I give money on interest. I was thinking, if I form a partnership firm, I can withdraw a fixed certain amount as salary which goes onto my file as salary income while the profit / loss remains in the company. Thereby my business activity of trading remains well defined under an LLP and my file only has a salary income. Currently most banks wont give me a loan against property as the only income I am showing is trading P/L so they are skeptical of my consistency of being able to paying EMI / interest. If I withdraw salary rather, I should / shall be eligible for a loan against property.
If the LLP makes a profit of say 60L and gives me salary of 24L in a year. Company will pay tax on 36L and I will have to pay tax on 24L after standard deductions etc.
Eventually this proposed LLP shall be my family’s primary investment vehicle so all shares shall be bought through this company so all family members have equal rights over the gains / loss. And for the daily working and operations, I get a salary.
If you are planning to run the LLP in the way you have mentioned, it seems like a good idea vs compared to trading in your personal name.
HI NITHIN I AM A SALARIED MAN AND MY INCOME FROM SALERY 6 LAC.SHORT TERM GAIN FROM EQUITY SHARE 20000 AND TURN OVER 2 LAC.I ALREADY FILL ITR 1.NOW HOW CAN FILL ITR 3 FORM?HOW CAN I CHANGE FROM ITR 1 TO ITR 3?PLS MAKE A VIDEO AND SHOW HOW WE FILL DIFFERENT FORMS IN DIFFERENT SITUATION BY GIVE SUITABLE EXAMPLE.IF YOU HAVE SUCH A VIDEO THEN GIVE US A LINK.ALL ARE CONFUSED.I STOPPED TRADING DUE TO THIS DIFFICULTY AND FEAR OF TAX AUDIT.
You can revise your returns. Best to consult a CA for this.
I think it is best to get an audit since your turnover ismore.
I am still not clear whether a tax audit is required or not. My only source of income is Bank Interest , FD and shares (mostly intraday and shor term). I started off in shares since past 4 years. Filed for the first time last year and it was a loss of Rs 8.7 lacs. My tax consultant filed it without any audit. This year , again there has been a loss of Rs 1 lac(appx) but the tax consultant said that no audit is required though he filed the turnover as more than 23 cr. I believe the logic he uses to calculate turnover is not correct. Anyways my total income is less than 2.5 lacs. Hence , I believe audit is not required.
@Nitin – Please explain in detail. And since the tax consultant said no audit is required I have not. Suppose in near future I get a notice from IT dept. that it should have been audited , can I explain that the tax consultant had advised me accordingly? If you say , I can email you the details of my last 2 years and you can confirm if audit is required or not.
It is best to revise your returns and show turnover correctly on ITR. Showing trading turnover is not a smart idea. You would not need an audit if turnover is less than 2 crores, since your income is below 2.5lks. But otherwise you would.
Hi Nithin,
Kindly advice on my case as it seems CAs have no idea what to be done here. Basically I want to avoid audit and books & account by showing profit @6% of turnover(intraday + F/O) as turnover is just 4lac. Is it even possible with ITR3.
Due to Intraday(speculative) I cannot file ITR4 and have to fill ITR3. I have STCG as well.
1)Mainly I wanted to know that what can be filled for below.
Amount of total sundry debtors
Amount of total sundry creditors
Amount of total stock-in-trade
Amount of the cash balance
2)Do I need to fill PART A-BS as well for Proprietor’s capital etc
3)Do I need to fill anything in schedule BP. I have only filled the Gross receipts as turnover and gross profit @6
%
Thanks
Rahul, don’t have the bandwidth to answer queries on filling ITR. Best to consult a CA for this. But yes, you can use ITR3 itself and show profits more than 6%.
Dear sir
I am zerodha trader
my question is, i lost 1 lac and 55 thousands in time 20 february 2017 to 25 april 2017 in intraday (equity and f&o) and i get interest amount on fd in bank yearly 122000
now my question is do i need to file itr or not
Not mandatory to file ITR. But it is advisable.
Hello Nithin Sir,
I am a trader in zerodha from past 2 years.
I have a turnover of over 1.5 crore for FY 2105 to 2016 and 1.5 crore for FY 2016 to 2017.
I am filling ITR for first time and have some losses from both financial years.
Is it possible to file ITR now for FY 2105 to 2016 and carry over the losses.
Thanks.
FY 15, you can file, but you will not be able to carry forward loss. FY16/17 again last date without audit is over. If you have audit you have time till Sep 30th. Make sure to file within time to carry forward loss.
sir, help me
1] in f.y 16-17 i have made intra day transaction of rs.2.5 corer and incurred loss of rs.25000/- plz. let me know if i have to audited the same. i have also salary income of rs.6 lakh. i have two demat account.
Have you checked the chapter on turnover. Trading turnover is not turnover. But yeah you would need an audit in any case. Make sure to go through all chapters.
Hi NIthin
If i invest 1 time in Debt mutual fund and stays more than 3 years,will it be taxable at 20 % with cost indexation.
yes
Hello Nithin,
I did intraday trading in FY2015-16 and I had booked loss, my total income was less than 2.5 lacs so i filed the return without audit and carried forward the loss. The system while processing the return declared my return defective due to not getting the accounts audited. Later i filed return again u/s 139(9) with 8% profit this time (though i had loss, to avoid any further notices i showed profit this time and left that i was carrying forward earlier). Now my case is been transferred to AO for limited scrutiny and the objection raised is :
Whether the investment and income relating to securities transactions are duly disclosed.
Now i have to reply back in on the income tax online website. What should I do?
I have started trading on Zerodha for about 6 months or so , i have done lots of intraday trading . Can u tell me while filling ITR for next year what all i have to take care while filling it?
And how to pay tax if i have made profit , it is like salary in which the tax are already deducted . if , no then how to pay tax for this?
ITR3, please go through all the chapters, everything is explained.
Dear sir
I am in touch with CA for filing returns , it seems he is not in touch with FnO . As per your advise I want declare 8% of turnover as profit even though in loss to avoid book keeping and audit. That soft ware is asking for stock in hand. As at 31st March I have one nifty lot short position. What to fill in that (that is what value). Please reply.
If you are using ITR4 and showing presumptive income, you don’t need to show any open position. Do consult a CA who understands.
Hello Nithin,
Request please help clarify.
1/ Total income from Salary & Interest is 3.4L [FY 2016-17], post all deductions final taxable income is 3L.
2/ Loss from trading is 5.6L, other charges like NSE, Sv tax, SEBI chgs is 5.5L, total loss is 11L.
3/ Turnover is <1CR, but the profit obviously is <8%, which means audit is required but since the total taxable income is less than 2.5L [+3-11= -8] hope audit is not required, please confirm.
Thanks!!
You can’t net off salary and trading losses. Best to file ITR and get audited.
Hello Sir,
What can be set off against salary, or can nothing be set off against salary?
Thanks.
Nothing can be setoff against salary.
Sir i have a query. In 2016-17 as per zerodha site
COMMODITY TRADING TURNOVER :- 313000
loss is 74000.
So as i am in loss, is file is mandatory or not. suppose I am not want to carry forward the loss.Please reply thanks
Best to file your ITR and declare trading losses even if you don’t intend to carry them forward.
Hi Nithin,
I have few cash deposits in my bank account over last 3 months amounting to total of Rs 36,081. I have saved this money from my personal and household expenses. Is it possible to trade/buy shares using this money as it is cash deposit?
Many thanks in advance for your support.
Yes you can.
What will be the Buy Value for bonus shares to calculate profit / loss for IT return ?
Bonus will be credited at 0 price.
Hi sir,
am confused of taxes on delivery stocks for example .. if I buy equity shares worth of 4.5 lakh and I hold them more than one year and profit is more than 2.5 lakh do I need to pay any tax and I don’t have any other income like salary, bank interest please tell me sir .. and also how many year I can hold them to not consider for tax…
If you hold for more than 1 year and sell, no tax on the gain.
Hi sir,
Do I need pay tax for buying equity share for delivery .. and also NSE is recognized stock exchanges right and also I wish to buy Asian paints , indusland bank and hadfc bank .. they are listed stock right sir am confused … If I hold them more than 3 year do I need to pay tax if profit is more than 2.5 lakh and my salary is only 12k per month plz help me out
Vijay, if you hold stock for more than 1 year and sell, no tax on the gain to pay.
Hi sir,
18% tax on equity if i sell it before one year.. that on brokerage right not on my investment .. for example if i buy worth of 1lakh i need pay 18000 or brokerage around 100 rupees +18 rupees tax right … please am very confuse……….
18% on Rs 100 of brokerage, so Rs 18.
Hi,
Isn’t STCG flat 15% of profit?
Thanks
no, if u r in a lower tax slab, u pay as per the lower slab. On the upper side, max 15%.
My question is related to Harsha’s comment above.
Hi sir,
Do I need to pay tax for buying equity delivery shares …
Only if you make profits. Do go through all the chapters.
Dear sir
I am salaried, traded in futures, incurred losses, turnover is 87000, as per your advise want to show 8% as profit to avoid audit and book keeping.
But while filling ITR 3 , is it necessary to fill balance sheet and profit and loss statement even though shown 8% as profit. Will my plot and home and vehicle form assets in balance sheet. Please shed some light on balance sheet in some detail for such cases like that of mine.
Thanking you sir.
If you chose ITR4, then no BS is required. But ITR3 you will need.
Sir
You said if I choose ITR4 instead of ITR3 then no need of balance sheet. What is main difference between ITR3 and ITR 4 . If chosen ITR4 have to audit.
Do go through the chapter on ITRs
In the year 2014-15 i have profit of 247000 as speculative and 230000 as short term loss and this is without deducting charges. Can short term loss can be set off against speculative profit in the same year even though i have net loss but Income tax person says you cannot set off speculative profit against short term loss SO I have to pay tax on 2.47. pl guide me and tell me the section under which i can get exemption.
Short term loss can’t be setoff against speculative profit.
Hello Sir,
Actually i am investor as well as trader but in trading i am falling by using levarging
So if my capital is 30000 and levarging allowed is 14 . If i made losss would i been able to pax tax on this .
tax is on profit earned that to if its about 2.5 lakhs is that so
due to this fear i cant able to levarge.
Tax is only on profits, not based on what leverage you take.
On brokerage.
Hi sir
Equity dilivery 18 % tax on brokerage or on our investment ???
On brokerage of course.
Please reply urgently..
I have received notice under 143(2) for AY 2016-17(Notice received online as well as by post)
In short,it mentions:
Limited scrutiny (Computer Aided scrutiny selection)
following issue(s) have been identified for examination:
(i) Whether the investment and income relating to securities(Derivative) Transactions are duly disclosed.
I am a salaried individual..income over 15 lakh per anum. I filled form ITR1…paid all due taxes.
During above period i also did lot of derivative trading thru Zerodha with turnover over 90 lakh and net loss about 3 lakh.
Since i had not filled correct form(ITR4) ,neither i did mandatory audit of my account..what should be my response now?
I have to submit my response through e-proceeding facility(on efiling website) with option of attaching documents.(last date 7 sept)
What documents to be attached? and what arguments i should mention to avoid penalty for not doing audit and not filling correct form. I have not evaded any tax and i want to be fully truthful.
My CA have not much idea regarding derivative etc..can anyone suggest a good CA in Navi Mumbai area. I have left details at tradetax,but not received a call.
Regards
Ravi
Since you didn’t evade tax, you had a loss and you didn’t declare, there shouldnt be any penalty. You have to show your P&L, show the loss and justify that you didn’t declare since you didn’t know losses need to be declared.
Hello sir,
I have opened my demat account in Zerodha just some days ago (from 29th august), i am an active equity intraday trader, and my investment was 15000 and after taking almost 3000 rupees loss, my current balance is 12000, and my traded value for a single day is between 7lakh to 13lakh,
So do i have to pay any taxes, if yes then how i am gonna pay this? Please help me
There is no taxes to pay since you haven’t made profits. But do declare trading in your ITR.
Which ITR form should i fill?
Is the loss in commodity trading (crude oil) can be set off against intraday profit. whether commodity trading is considered as speculation. what is sec 43(5) it is confusing as it says commodity trading is speculative . pl guide me nitinbhai
Commodity is non-speculative, so can’t be setoff against intraday equity trading or speculative profits.
No income only worked in stock market turn over is very high approx 8 to 10 lakhs daily as intraday trader totally in loss. It is required to fill ITR
No income only worked in stock market turn over is very high approx 8 to 10 lakhs daily as intraday trader totally in loss. It is required to fill ITR
Even if in loss, best to file ITR.
Hii,
I started trading with Zerodha. Since I am doing intraday and have a loss, I understand I have to submit ITR 3 (since this year). Now in ITR do we have to mention our trading turnover ( sum of profits + losses ) in any field or just mention the loss to be carried over. If we have to mention the turnover please let me know in which page of ITR 3 do we need to mention it.
Also do we have to mention the charges (brokerage, stt etc) or is it up to us to claim benefit on the charges paid.
Thanks.
Anirban, do go through the chapter on ITR forms. Have explained this.
Nithin Sir,
Sorry I am bothering you with more questions, but I am confident only you will give provide a very correct & honest answer hence.
I have read few articles in the ET & Mint that the GOI is pressurizing the SEBI and NSE to take all required steps to discourage or even STOP speculative intra-day trading in the Derivatives segment in India.
Since as per Govt, the amount of TAX collection GOVT makes through STOCK trading in the CASH segment is comparatively huge when compared to STOCK trading in the DERIVATIVE segment; I mean Futures & Options.
I am told SEBI and the Exchanges in turn are also seeking suggestions and opinions from market makers like you.
My few points are as follows:
1. I quit a well paying MNC job an year back to plunge myself completely in to full time trading, now if this what Govt is planning to do then it is a complete disaster for me since I can not get my job back.
2. Over the last eight years the amount of time, efforts, money I have spent to learn trading in the markets is huge and immense, can not imagine the same going down the drain.
3. In the last two years I have lost 50+ L in the markets and I am now just beginning to start recovering this may in the next few years, if Govt goes ahead then it is a complete dead end for me in terms of recovering this money.
4. thanks to this govt’s most horrible & destructive initiatives like demonetization and digitalization the jobs are shrinking on a daily basis and hundreds and thousands of young well qualified boys and girls are losing jobs rapidly and NOW if we are not allowed to leverage the stock markets to trade and in the process ensure our survival, then how are we expected to survive. because people spend 20+ years learning and acquiring education, skill-set only to work for 5 to 7 years before losing there jobs and then spend approximately 5 years in acquiring skill-set for trading only to again discover govt has stopped retail trading, one is not alive for 1000 years to keep on acquiring skill-set endlessly to only each time discover the Govt has checkmated them each time.
Please help understand what exactly is the Govt position, is INTRADAY retail trading in Derivatives is going STOP anytime soon ??
Thanks!!
Firstly Saurabh, don’t go by what the press says. Yes SEBI is concerned about F&O being mis-sold by brokerages to clients who aren’t educated. I don’t think anything drastic will be done like stopping derivative trading completely. They just put out another discussion paper asking people if physical settlement should be allowed. Personally I think it is in the right step. Check this. Btw, if you are in a drawdown period, it is best to reduce your trading size to as little as possible. Increase only when you start making money again.
Sure, thanks for the clarity and your valuable suggestion. Rgds
Sir
Can you please clarify when will I be taxable if I make trading on a t+2 basis and also is there any limit on total turnover that can be made by a person which is exempted from tax or we can make any amount of trading in a year
There is no limit on turnover. If you are doing equity delivery trades, you show them as capital gains. In which case, there is no need to calculate turnover. Tax has to be paid on profits and not on turnover. Tax as per income slab you fall in.
Sir, my total sales value in year 60 lakh (including delivery and speculation ). Can I show in itr 2 as capital gain.
No, speculation can’t be shown on ITR2. YOu need to use ITR3
No, speculation can’t be shown on ITR2. You need to use ITR3
Hi Nithin,
I have a question suppose I have a fd income of 1.5 lakhs and I do equity delivery trade of buy/sell 1 lakh rs share twice a year and make say profit of 60000. now can I file ITR2 and show the profit as STCG or have to show it as business income I dont do anything else(no salary). Pls guide me on this one.
Yes ITR2 and as STCG.
Hello sir,
I have a doubt that if my total income from trading is less than 250000 should I file income tax return.
Yeah, best to file ITR even if you don’t have taxes to pay.
I have speculation profit of Rs 4,15,600 and charges for the same year is Rs 2,15,200 but this charges are combined of short term and speculation. my short term loss is Rs 60,000. now i have to pay tax on (4,15,600-2,15200) 2,00,400 or I have to bifercate the charges of short term and speculation separately. As charges cannot be carry forward, can I deduct the whole charges from my speculation profit or not. Pl guide
You will have to divide charges between speculation and short term.
sir
i am a salaried person and i had speculation profit and short term loss which itr i should filled whether i have to show all the 100 script i traded in short term and speculation or i have to show the amount of short term loss that i have to carry forward.
You have to show everything. If you also have intraday to show, need to use ITR3.
Sir
If my income from trade is less than 250000 then why should I submit tax return as you stated as a reply for my above comment
if I have 100 shares of divis labs purchased on 1-4-2016 for rs 800. If i do trading but sometimes i give the delivery and when it comes down i take the delivery back. At the end of year the delivery of 100 shares is left with me. If i sell the shares in july 2017 for rs 900 will i get the benefit of long term capital gain or not
If you give delivery of a stock, it is considered as closed out trade. The day count starts once you buy it again for LTCG calculation.
Hi,
I have a quick query if a person is having more than 1 crore turnover in shares dealing (on daily delivery basis), will he be classified as a trader and would not be able to get the long term capital gains benefit if he held any particular security for more than one year.
Thanks.
Turnover is not the criteria for equity delivery. If the person is just doing this for a living, maybe then it makes sense to declare as trader.
Hello,
If I regularly trade Futures and in a given financial year make a loss; can this loss be set off against the ‘variable component’ of my salary? More than 60% of my salary is in form of bonus.
Many thanks,
Abhijit
No, you cant offset F&O loss against any form of payment from employer(Salary). Unless it was Business Income( Consultancy)
Hello,
As i am doing Intraday Trading since 2012. I got Notice from IT department for Pay tax on Loss in Trading for F.Y. 2014-15. the details are as follows
1) My Salary Income- 269000
2) Loss in Equity ( Intraday Trading)- Rs.-520000/-
3) Turnover is – Profit- (Rs.802526.82)+Loss (Rs. -1322527.30)=2125054.12
The Income tax officer calculated added 8% of 2125054.12= 170004.33 in my salary Income i.e
269000+170004.33=439004 and said me to pay around Rs. 19000 tax.
My query is that i have loss of Rs.-520000/- in F.Y. 2014-15 still to have pay tax Rs. 19000 is correct?
Please solve my query
Thanks
Hmm.. since you haven’t declared the loss on your ITR, you have this problem. Otherwise there is no concept of tax on loss. Maybe you can reason out with him saying you didn’t know that you have to pay tax on loss and hence didn’t declare.
Thank you for Guidance
please guide me which ITR to file in my case if I am salaried person + doing Intraday Trading in Equity and F&O.
ITR2 or ITR3 or ITR4 . so that if loss occured to me that can be carry forward.
Sir, I am salary class and my income from salary is 6 lacs. I loss approx 11 lacs in f&O for 2015-16 and get audited my account. Now I received scrutiny under 143(2) and after 4 days I got another mail from It mentioning AO rectification under 154.
What should I do now. Thanks in advance.
143 is a limited notice and all information required can be submitted online. Login into e-proceeding tab in your online profile on IT website. Rectification under 154 is if you have requested to rectify an error or asked for change of jurisdiction.
Do I need to pay tax and file return in a FY even if all my earnings are in trading account and i have not enjoyed that money ?
No need to pay tax if you haven’t earned more than 2.5lks in a year. But yeah, best to file your ITR to avoid any notice you might eventually get to explain why aren’t.
if i purchase share using borrowed money and get STCG than can i get interest amount Deduction ?
Yes you can claim the interest paid on buying using borrowed money. But make sure to maintain the corelation correctly of what stocks bought using this borrowed money.
Sir,
I am Rajesh and I have been doing the trading with zerodha account which opened on my wife’s PAN number whose income is solely from trading.
Lets say:
Non speculative profit is 500000.
1) Out of this 500000 rs, Can i deduct the 150000rs as savings (if invested in ELSS or taken insurance already) while paying the income-tax (as it is available for salaried persons under section 80C)?
2) And i have been taking the tips from a analyst for which i am paying 10k per month to the analyst…can i deduct this amount from my profit?
Thanks in advance.
1. yes
2. yes
sir,
Thank you….suppose if non speculative profit of 500000 is STCG, then can i deduct 150000 (if invested in ELSS) from the 500000 while paying income-tax? (no other income except from STCG)
If it is STCG you can’t claim ELSS under section 80C. If you show it as non-speculative business income, then yeah you can.
Dear sir,
After long search and discussion with a CA , I convinced that he has knowledge of filing returns of trading income. But unfortunately after uploading returns when he gave me ” statement of income” to sign I found that he had shown my FnO trading also as speculative business income. On questioning regarding this he says that it has happened by mistake and there will be no problem — if shown non speculative as speculative it would have been problem.
Is it true?
What to do know ? Please advise.
Thanks in advance.
I think it is best to revise your ITR.
Hello sir,
I am ONLY engaged in F&O business and intraday trading. I am NOT engaged in any other business.
If my turnover for F&O business and intraday trading exceeds INR 20 lakhs, then do I have to register myself on GSTN for GST purposes and all ?
I am engaged only in F&O business and no other business. Please kindly advice me on this.
Thanks in advance
No you don’t need to register. Not applicable for stock market traders.
Hello Nithin,
Thanks for answering. But suppose if turnover in F&O exceeds INR 2 crore for which audit would be required, at such scale also, do I have to worry abour GST registration or not. I am asking this because in this case the scale of business is high and audit has come into picture ? Please note I have no other business other than F&O trading.
Please help me on this … sorry for a bit of repetitive question.
Thanks in advance.
No Rahul, not even in that case.
Hi Nithin
I have profit of 1027000 from trading (delivery trades) so is this my STCG or I have to show as business income
If delivery trades you can show as capital gains – either short or long. Do go through all the chapters.
i HAVE RECEIVED A NOTICE UNDER SEC 143(1) FOR THE FY 2015-16 BUT THE PROCEEDING IS NOT STARTED. I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER i CAN REVISED MY RETURN AND CAN SUBMIT TO THE ITO BEFORE ANY PROCEEDING START TO AVOID PENALTY.
Yes you can.
Only till March 2018
Nitin sir I have speculative profit of 2.5 lakhs and short term loss of rs 4.5 lakhs and short term turnover of rs 12 crores i have to file itr3 to carry forward my short term loss. but as i am showing intraday profit of more than 8% of turnover is it compulsary for me to get my account audited. i have calculated short term turnover as my sale value of shares
Hope you received notice before 30th Sep 2017, else it would be time barred.
I hope the deadline to issue this notice was 30th Sep 2017, and time-barred if issued after that.
Seniors please correct me if I am wrong.
Dear Nitin,
Is there a penalty for not having got the accounts audited, if audit was applicable?
If yes, how much is the penalty? How to escape/minimise it if I have missed to get audit done, due to my ignorance.
Thank You
Sumit
Sumit Penalty is 0.5% of turnover or 150000 which ever is less. If you are concerned, you can revise your returns if within 1 year.
THE GROSS PROFIT AND LOSS THAT APPEARS ON ZERODHA, DOES THAT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE CHARGES PAID BY ZERODHA OR SHALL WE NEED TO DEDUCT THE TOTAL CHARGES FROM THE GROSS PROFIT FOR TAXATION. ALSO CHARGES FOR SHORT TERM GAINS AND INTRADAY GAINS APPEAR AS CLUBBED TOGETHER. HOW CAN WE FIND OUT CHARGES FOR INDIVIDUAL HEADS VIZ. SPECULATIVE GAINS AND SHORT TERM GAINS.
Go to the taxation P&L in Q. We show short and long term separately. We show the charges also separately.
Sir,
If we have short term gains and long term loss,
will this loss be offset with gain.
Thanks
Alok
No, you cannot. Long term loss can’t be setoff. Exiting it before it becomes long term is also called tax loss harvesting.
Hello,
I have LTCL(Long term capital loss) of Rs 60000 and STCG(short term capital gain) of Rs 80000 on equity cash, in same financial year, will this LTCL and STCG offset each other.
Thanks,
Alok
No you cannot.
I have received a notice for F.Y 15-16 from I.Tax under 143(2). but the proceeding have not yet started. Can i submit my Revised return to the Local I.T.O to avoid penalty or is there any other way to avoid penalty. As i was not knowing the speculative profit can not be off set against Short term loss
What kind of scrutiny is this, limited or complete? For FY 15/16, assessment will start post January.
limited scrutiny
But the deadline to issue this notice was 30th Sep 2017, and time-barred if issued after that. So Navinder Ji need not worry if he received this notice after 30th Sep 2017.
Seniors please correct me if I am wrong.
how to avoide penalty if the limited scrutiny is not started. can i pay my tax which i came to know now before the proceeding starts to avoide penalty
Yes you can revise the return
I am a zerodha trader and propose to invest in some script for Rs.2 lacs delivery. However depending on market fluctuation I would do intraday trading on this share as and when I feel during the year. How should i calculate my profit and pay tax on this?
Intraday has to be shown under speculative business. Go through all the chapters in this module, explained in detail.
Nitin sir I have speculative profit of 2.5 lakhs and short term loss of rs 4.5 lakhs and short term turnover of rs 12 crores i have to file itr3 to carry forward my short term loss. but as i am showing intraday profit of more than 8% of turnover is it compulsary for me to get my account audited. i have calculated short term turnover as my sale value of shares
If you are showing short term equity investing as business, only then you need to calculate turnover. Otherwise, if you show as capital gains, then no need to. Make sure to go through the chapter on turnover.
short term turnover is 1.6 crores and not 12 cores
Dear sir,
I have few queries
1 Is tax audit required if delivery based sales during the year exceeds 2 crore and that income is considered as short term capital gain but simultaneously have interest trading income of 5 lakh p.a
2 When shall I needs to maintain books of account. Please answer it in both context that is if my delivery based income is short term capital or business Income.
Thanks a lot sir in advance for helping me out.
Regards
Amit Kemani
9910628977
1. Not required
2. If only investments and you are showing as capital gains (short or long), no need to maintain books. If business income, if turnover more than 2 crores or if profit less than 8% of turnover, u need to maintain books and get audited. Go through all chapters.
I have filled ITR2 on due date now i have to revise it to ITR3. but i have not yet audited can i revise to itr3 duly audited after 1st of Nov 17 as i have both speculation profit and short term loss which i have to show pl advise
nitin bhai pl reply
Yes you can revise. Btw, dates are extended to Nov 7th this year, you can do it even before that. Btw, if you have missed auditing and do it after due date, the penalty could be 0.5% of turnover.
Dear NITIN BHAI
I am a salaried person drawing around 12 lakhs rs. my intraday turnover is around 7 lakhs and profit is 2.5 lakhs and my short term turnover is 93 lakhs and loss is 2.8 lakhs. my CA is telling me not to to auditing as short term comes under the head Capital gain as i am salaried person and i have loss and speculation turnover is very less
Pl guide me
If you are showing only short term capital gains, then yeah no need to bother about turnover or audits. You can just use ITR2.
hello sir
my turnover 7 cr in 2014-2015
INCOME TAX SENT FINE PENALTY 6.5 LAC
HOW CAN WAY OFF PENALTY
I HAVE NO FILE ITR
Vikas, you have to go explain to the ITO why you didn’t file ITR. If you had profits which you didn’t declare on ITR and hence evaded taxes, you will need to pay the penalty. If not, explain to ITO that you didn’t file because you had no profits.
If a person’s salary is zero and they only earned 2,00,000 from stocks(held for less than a year) during the year, would they still have to pay that 15%STCG tax?
No, there won’t be any tax to pay. 15% is once u r above the 10% slab. From 2.5lks to 5lks u pay at 10%. Above that at 15%
I am doing equity share buy and sell the business (STCG), I don’t have any other business or Income, yearly I earn 2,50,000 INR, Do I have to pay Tax?
Thanks for your advice.
I’m a salaried person and stock trader which ITR form should I file?
Please reply
Thanks in advance
ITR3, check the chapter on ITR forms.
Hi Nithin,
Do we need to pay advance tax on gross profit or net profit, while trading intraday equity?
For instance,
– I make an intraday trade with a gross profit of Rs. 2000
– But I incur brokerage and charges (contract note) of Rs. 500 on the trade
– So, my net profit is Rs. 1500
1) a) So, Should I pay advance tax on Rs. 2000 and then claim brokerage and charges as expenses to claim a refund while filing ITR?
OR
b) Should I pay advance tax on Rs. 1500 and then NOT claim brokerage and charges as expenses for refund while filing ITR?
2) Also, if it is possible to choose the latter option, do I need to show brokerage and charges as expenses in the P&L while filing ITR?
1. Advance tax on 1500.
2. Yes, they need to be shown as expenses. Check all the chapters once.
Thanks a lot Nithin!
Hi Nithin. My CA had filed my IT returns for me but i have received a notice from IT dept, saying it is defective. he had filed ITR4. I have had 1.5 lakhs income for services rendered as a consultant for a company for which TDS has been paid and 10% of total amount is due back to me this year. Besides that i am not salaried and do full time trading as a profession for my income in ONLY cash segment. All stocks for the assessment period have been sold with 365 days. The message was “provisions of Section 44ADA not applicable to the taxpayer. Nature of business code in Sch NOB is not a profession and income disclosed under section 44ADA income is more than zero. Hence the provisions of section 44ADA is not applicable to the taxpayer.” What form should the CA have used. Also for next year too, there will be similar income from consultancy income and also income from trading and investing as a business, i.e. stocks have been sold under 365 days in profit and others have/will be sold above 365 days in profit. Which forms should be used for next year also? please help
For Assessment Year 2017-2018 you have to file return in ITR 3
ITR3
Sir, my major source of income is salary and if i am an occasional intraday trader with low turnover and low profit say less than 7000 per FY, in that case, can I show this income from intraday as capital gain and fill ITR2 or is it mandatory to show intraday income as business income and fill ITR4. Thanks
The compliant way is to file using ITR3 (ITR4 is called ITR3 from this year).
pls clarify BTST equity trade is non speculative or speculative.i usually purchase equity &sell either taking delivery ,intraday,BTST,orT2 day.i hedge this position by selling calls,buying &selling puts.profit &losses incurred in both equity &options can we set off as per IT present rules.
s guruprasad
Grey area Guru. Some people show BTST as speculative and others as capital gains. I’d say show it as capital gains as you have paid STT for delivery trades.
thank u very much nithin
Hey I buy shares from borrowed money I can claim deduction for it if yes then I have to show trading as STCG or non speculative business income?
Thanks
Only interest portion can be claimed as deduction. You could chose either as STCG or Business income.
Thank you very much Nithin
Hi Nitin,
I have taken losses around 7Lacs this year in cash and charges are around 2 Lacs; till now (1st April 2017 till date). I have invested and used money from my reserves. Overall I am taking losses in excess of 9 Lacs till now (From 1st April 2017 till now).
When do I start preparing my paper work and what are the important dates for me to keep in mind for the tax processing? I have another full time business, am I supposed to merge this income (PnL) with my income from the other business? If yes, then my earning from the other business (10 Lacs/ Annum) and the income from trading (-9 Lacs) will result in 1 Lac of earnings through the year. Am I supposed to pay self assessment tax in this case? Please advise.
As per Q on Zerodha, my Intraday/ speculative turnover is INR 11,19,812.60 and my short term turnover is INR 11,55,801.55. Lets say I am only able to achieve double of this turnover by 31st of March 2017; am I required to get this audited by a CA?
If I am suffering losses, do I need to go ahead and file my return?
If your overall income (trading + others) is not taxable, and turnover stays below 2crores, there is no need of any audit. It is best file ITR even if in losses.
Yes, you need to file returns combining all your income. If these are F&O losses, you can set it off against your other business income. Since there are losses on trading, there isn’t any advance tax to pay on that. You just have to file your ITR on time after close of financial year.
Thank you Nithin. Can I only adjust F&O losses against my overall income?
Or can I also strike off my intraday (cash) segment losses and the Zerodha & exchange charges against my overall income?
Also, lets say if I was to hire a CA to help me with the IT filing for my trading business; would I have to give him all the contract notes from the entire financial year? Or can Zerodha give me a consolidated and detailed PnL statement for each quarter through the financial year across PnL for different segments – FnO, intraday, long term etc.?
As per income tax regulations, do I need to print and compile everyday contract notes or do I make do with whatever quarterly PnL detailed statements Zerodha can issue to me?
Would appreciate a little clarity on these points.
Only F&O as it is non speculative business income. INtrady P&L and charges are speculative business income, so can’t be setoff. CA, you can give the taxation P&L from Q.zerodha.com. Contract notes is not really required to be printed and all. Will be required only if tomorrow you are called for scrutiny and ITO asks for it.
If a person’s gross total income does not exceed rs 250000 ,lets say it is only 1 lakh from trading ,will it be required to file ITR form for it.
Not mandatory, but best to file ITR.
Dear Mr. Nithin,
Very nice and useful article. Thank you so much . I have few queries and need clarifications on them. Appreciate your response in tis regard.
1. Should all frequent delivery based tradings be classified as (non speculative) business income only. Or can we still put it as STCG (to avoid the complication of ITR3, audit, etc.) even it is frequent trading – say twice in a week, and turnover is less than 2 Cr – assume 1.5 Cr, and profit is less than 6% but above 2.5 lakhs.
2. If we show it as STCG, will there be any issue (as it is frequent trading and turnover is high as said above).
3. Turnover for delivery based transaction is sum of all sale values only (and we should not consider the purchase value). Is my understanding is correct.
4. While considering the sale value for turnover calculation, can we deduct things like brokerage, STT, SEBI turnover charge, transaction charges, stamp duty from the actual transaction value. If yes, which are all the things can be deducted. Or should we take actual transaction value only. i.e, no. of shares * price per share.
5. While answering some of the Qs above, you have said that for audit purpose only turnover is considered and not the profit percentage. But in the article you have said that the profit will be considered ( if it is less than 6 %). Pls clarify.
Thank you.
1. You can show as STCG.
2. If you are not having any other income other than this, could be an issue.
3. Yes, but turnover is required only if you declare as business. Not for STCG.
4. Actual sell value.
5. hmm.. If turnover more than 2 crores, mandatory audit. If below and profit less than 6% mandatory audit.
Mr. Nithin,
Thanks for your reply. Request you to kindly clarify the following.
1. From your response, I understand that even if we do very frequent delivery based transactions, it can be put as STCG. If yes, won’t this be against the CBDT’s guidelines as the transactions are frequent, high volume, etc. Won’t there be any issue later on.
2. If we show it as STCG, we need to put the total sales value (which is nothing but the turnover, as per their definition) in full value of consideration column and the total purchase value in cost of acquisition without indexation column (in ITR2). As you know that due to frequent trading, one can easily touch 2 Cr mark in both buying and selling side. So if we put such high value in these columns (full value of consideration and cost of acquisition), wont there be any issue later on.
Request you to pls clarify these 2 queries. Appreciate your reply.
Thank you.
Sriram,
1. If you are doing as a business, then best to show it as a business. If STCG is a portion of your overall income, then you could still show it as STCG.
2. There is no concept of turnover when showing capital gains. It comes into play, only if you show it as business income. Yes, if business income, turnover will be over 2 crores in your case. Hence you will need an audit.
Thanks Nithin for your quick response. All the best.
Dear Mr. Nithin,
Forgot to add a Q in my above post. Pls answer this too.
If we show it as business income, is it compulsory to maintain books like P&L statement, balance sheet, etc. How should we do this.
Thanks.
Yeah, you would have to maintain balance sheet etc, as you will need your ITR audited.
Appreciate if you could advise me on my situation. My income are as follows:
1) Long Term Capital gains – ₹2,50,000
2) Short Term Capital gains – ₹6,00,000
3) F&O LOSS – ₹2,00,000
I am self employed and do not have any other source. My questions are
a) can I offset my F&O loss with Short Term Capital gain (stocks held for more than day but less than 1 year)?
b) Should slab-based income tax rate apply for me?
Thanks
Sanjoy
1, a. No, you can’t.
2. Long term 0, short term 15%, F&O loss can be carried forward.
Here is an article which says F&O loss can be offset with short term capital gains which contradicts your response to my 1st question. Bit confused. Appreciate if you take a relook and advise.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/speculative-loss-or-profit-in-equity-here-comes-the-tax-balm/articleshow/56316095.cms
Regards
Sanjoy
This article talks about only hedged trades. Where your F&O trades are to hedge your equity holdings. If not, you can’t.
Hi Nitin,
I am a full time Trader and Investor
I am earning around 25 lacs from fno, 15 lac from shot term cash.
I want to reduce my tax liabliy from the next fy.
Can you please help me on this?
I am thinking of opening a pvt ltd company to trade(dont know the compliance). and can give my parents commission and rent to spread the income and reduce the overall tax liablity.
Further corporate tax is lower after than individual tax after 1cr of income.
Can you please help me out with this?
hmm.. you could do what you said. But best to speak to a CA about this.
My dad is having the portfolio of around 70 lacs now, and maximum of his holding are bought in between 2000- 2005 for which income tax discloser in not done(not sure). if tax discloser is not done, find the below questions and clarify the same:
> if i want to sell my holdings, how much tax i’ve to pay ?
> is there any penalties applied, how we can minimise it ?
> is there any situation, where we will end up loosing more money in taxes ??
If you had bought stocks before 2004 (when STT wasn’t there) and you are trying to sell now, you will have to either pay 10% of gain as taxes or pay 20% of gain after indexation. (Have explained indexation in investing chapter). If you had not disclosed income then, it should be okay. Income tax department can ask you only for the last 6 year income. There shouldn’t be any penalty and all.
dear Nithin,
I am a Zerodha client, require your valuable suggestion here please.
For the fy 2017-18, I have a Intraday Futures [derivative] trading loss of 11L and a retainer fee income of 10L from my technology consultancy services [this is not regular employment], this is not a employee-employer relationship and my contract says this is a retainer fees.
You will agree, the loss due to intraday trading of derivatives qualify as a business loss and NOT a speculative loss. Hence I can set of this business loss against a business income right ?
I want to adjust the loss of 11L against the income of 10L and avoid paying tax.
please help clarify, thanks!!
yeah.. if this is not a salary, you can adjust. But do consult a CA.
Hi
I have a salary income of rs. 259200 pa. I am an investor since last year. But I have initiated few small equity intraday trades (8-9 trades) last month for the purpose of learning. And I got to the conclusion that intraday does not suit me. I file tax return for many years but don’t pay any taxes as the gross income is less than limit after HRA, transport etc. My questions are-
1) I don’t show my stock investments and interest income from fixed deposits in my returns till now. Are these necessary to include?
2) How to go about these trial intraday trades where I had loss of 3500 bucks?
3) Normally finance people of my company file my it return. But I don’t want to disclose my portfolio details to them.
I am confused. Please suggest.
1. Since you are below the tax slab, it is not mandatory. But it is best to show them.
2. Ideally show it on your ITR. But many people show this under STCG, if turnovers are extremely small. Make sure to speak to a CA.
3. hmm… it is best you file it on your own
Hello Sir,
New to stock market, so, was confused to choose between trader, investor or become both.
After aprox. 25k losses in equity intraday (including zerodha charges). I decided that I want to do short term delivery based trading only. So my question here is-
1. If I never ever do equity intra in life, can I declare the equity intraday losses as STCG losses?
2. A. If I can, is there a chance of receiving a notice from IT dept. telling me I messed up and have to show it as a speculative loss?
B. What can be my counter argument?
3. Charges (Brokerage, Stamp Duty etc)? How to deal with charges?
The amount charged for intra trading, short term trading, futures trading etc.
Can I combine them and deduct them from any profit or does it have to be specific.
E.g only deduct intra charges from intra profit. Deduct sh term charges from sh profit etc…
Unrelated question-
4. Sir, what do you think a newbie should stick to? Eq intra, short term delivery, futures delivery.
1. hmmm, ideally you shouldn’t.
2. Yes, potentially you can get a notice. You can maybe tell them that you didnt’ know that it has to be shown as business income.
3. Yes, you can add all charges to your loss to give your net loss.
4. If you are a newbie, take only 10% of the money that you intend to trade with. Use that for intraday/F&O etc to learn. Investment is the best way to do it, but even investments are tricky. So most of your money when starting off is best in a MF.
Thanks. ?.
Hello,
I am a Zerodha client with a query on STCG for delivery equity trades.
1. Lets say Rs.100 were invested in equity delivery shares
2. Shares sold for Rs. 135 in less than a years time but not intraday.
3. STT and misc charges at the time of buying say Rs. 4 and at the time of selling are say 6
Is it correct that I will have to pay 15% tax on Rs. 35 . When in reality my real capital gains are 25 (135-100- 4(STT buying)-6 (STT sell)
STT is 0.1% , so on buying it will be Rs 0.1 and Selling Rs 0.135 if stock is at 100 and 135 respectively. You pay 15% on 35 -0.1-0.135.
Thanks Nitin. I was actually confused whether STT can be subtracted or not from Short Term Capital gains before calculating 15% tax after reading Section 5.9 – Turnover and Tax audit- Sub section Business expenses when trading- bullet point 1- Quoting the specific line that created confusion: “I hope you remember that STT can’t be shown as a cost when declaring income as capital gains, but it can be in case of business income”- That led me to believe that STT is in a way over and above STCG
Hey Nithin
I am intraday trader can I file taxes under 44 A.D.
Speculative income (intraday equity) can’t be shown under 44AD
Hi Nithin,
I’m a salaried employee working in MNC & is zerodha client. I mostly does trading in equity intraday segment, my loss till now for current FY ~3L (Turnover ~6L).
1) Does audit required here?
Please explain audit case with example. What I understand it is required if turnover >2 crore but confusion in statement where turnover less than 2cr but P/L less than 8%.
Thanks in advance!!!
Dear Sir,
I propose to trade in intraday with a capital of 3 lacs. Can i file my IT return for my intraday speculative profit under presumptive income OR I should file under which return. Please clarify.
If it is intraday, you have to show under speculative business income. So you need to use ITR3.
If l don’t have any of others heads and I am a trader I only have the loss. so I can claim STT as a deduction.
where I can see this STT paid by me I checked my 26AS but it is blank nothing it shows to me.
Sir where I can see how much STT paid by me till date in government records.
This only appears in broker cost reports.
Om, STT will show up only on broker reports.
Hi Sir,
I want to know that if i can reduce brokerage charges from short term capital gains by selling stocks when filing for tax?
MOH
what are all the charges i can reduce when showing short term capital gain(brokerage,stamp duty).
Please advice
Everything apart from STT.
SIR I HAVE AN DOUBT
IN YOUR ARTICLE YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAN BTSI, IF DONE FREQUENTLY CAN BE TREATED AS SPECULATIVE BUSINESS INCOME
BUT SIR SUCH INCOME SHOULD BE TREATED AS NON SPECULATIVE INCOME !!!
I HAVE READ VARIOUS ARTICLES ON SHARE TRADING BUSINESS TREATMENT IN WHICH IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN THAT PROFIT OR LOSS ON SHORT TERM EQUITY TRADING IF DONE FREQUENTLY MAY BE TREATED AS NON-SPECULATIVE BUSINESS INCOME
PLS CONFIRM THE SAME SIR
If My short term turnover in btst and short term delivery base trading is 1.7 crore and intraday turnover is only 8000.My profit is 251000 on delivery base short term trading and 2000 on intraday trading. So, the profit is less than 8% of my turnover.My income source is only from Trading in shares.then i file taxreturn as short term capital gain or business income?Shoud i need tax audit or not?
Intraday you need to show as business income. Investing you can show as capital gains. It is best to get audited.
In Tax report from Zerodha Q Back office
Turnover of Option is calculated as = Abs sum of realized profit + Sum of sell value .
Why you are adding sell values?
It is a conservative approach. Can you check the chapter on turnover, I have explained. https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/
Dear Mr. Nitin Kamat,
Kindly advise on the following.
I invested Rs. 2 lakh in options trading in April 2017. The amount from options trading reached 10 lakh. I quit the options trading and used the Rs. 10 lakh to buy shares and Nifty ETFs. I did not transfer into my bank account any gains yet. In this situation am I liable for any tax since I have not transferred any amount to my bank to account? Also please advise if I am liable to pay any advance taxes.
Thanks
Yeah, you are still liable to pay taxes for the realized gains. It doesn’t matter if you withdraw it or not. Taxes/advance tax has to be paid on all booked profits.
Hi nithin. I regularly do short term and daily intraday and a few f@o which itr I have to use
ITR3
Dear Nitin Sir,
I’m a salaried person with 3.75 LPA and stock trader made just 3,545.29 overall capital gain for entire year,
Do I need pay additional tax as it was directly deducted from my salary every month also guide about file ing ITR?
Please reply
Thanks in advance
You will have to use ITR2, and yes for your salary bracket you need to pay 10% of this gain as tax. Do go through the entire module here, you will get to know.
Dear Nitin Sir,
I’m a salaried person with 3.75 LPA and stock trader made just 3,545.29 overall capital gain for entire year,
Do I need pay additional tax as it was directly deducted from my salary every month also guide about file ing ITR?
Please reply
Thanks in advance
Can audit expenses added as business expens?
Yes
HI SIR , WHEN I DO TRADE I OBESERVE MY TRADE IS BEAUTIFUL & M ALWAYS DOING PROFIT KK NOW M ASKING U SOMETHING IT,S VERY STUPID QUES. BUT ITS KNOW ABOUT IT IMPORTANT FOR ME COZ MY FUND IS VERY HARDLY EARN WT HAPPEN WITH CLIENT FUND WHEN BROKER DEFAULT WHO IS RESPONSIBLE I KNOW IT,S STUPID
The idea is to trade with brokers who are ethical in how they work and run a profitable business. I have answered it here.
Sir,
Can I adjust my ltcg profit from property to any other losses in F&o, intraday , stcg or ltcg
No. LTCG is exempt income when investing, so you setoff losses against any other ltcg gains. Other losses in F&O, intraday, stcg can be only adjusted against the same heads. F&O can be adjusted against business income. Do read all the chapters.
Sir …When we buy / sell share in intraday we pay CGST & SGST at that time then can we get back the same thru ITR…
Suppose we earn 5000 Rs. In a day & we pay 500 Rs. For CGST & SGST & others ( Security transaction charges, Stamp Duty, Taxable Value of Supply )
If you are trading as a business, you can show all of this as a cost and set it off against other gains. If you filer ITR in time, you can carry forward losses for 8 years.
Dear Sir, If I do intraday trades and endup in a profit of less than 2.5L for the financial year, should I pay taxes or will I be in the Nil spot? Will turnover affect me in anyway and influence me to pay taxes?
There won’t be any taxes to pay. You just have to file your returns using ITR3 forms.
I m a zerodha client.
I opened deemed account on 15-01-2018
I started interaday trading only for 9 day
and get profit of 5000 and turnover 20000.
I also had loss of -163 on short term capital loss
I ask some questions
1 . can I under audit
2.can I fill itr 2
You need to file using ITR3. Intraday trading can’t be shown on ITR2.
4.i am govt salary person and don’t want to trade in interaday and f n o…
so I stop my interaday trading and will start only short and long captical investment after 31st march
Sir
I have a query on whether minimum tax exemption limit of Rs.2.5 Lacs is applicable incase where there is no salary income only capital gains (both STCG and LTCG). To be specific i detail below income accrued to me this year.
1. Delivery based –
LTCG – Rs.2.20 L , STCG – Rs.7.40 L , STCL – Rs.0.69L, LTCL – Rs1.68L
2. Intra day – Rs.2.33L gain and Rs.1.00L loss
3. Margin Trading – (non delivery) – Gain – Rs.3.95 L and Loss – Rs.5.44 L
Please help.
Yes, you still get the tax exemption limit, after which you pay taxes as per the IT slab.
Thanks a lot
Hi,
Sir by saying- ‘You still get the tax exemption limit, after which you pay taxes as per the IT slab’
Do you mean that, when it comes to any capital gains, upto 2.5lkh is exempt after which you have to pay tax acc to tax slab?
E.g. 7.5lkh STCG, so that would mean,
7.5-2.5= 5lkh= taxable income?
Thanks
Yes, if you have no other income other than the 7.5lks STCG. First 2.5lks no tax, 2.5 to 5lks 5%, and only after that is flat 15%
Sir,
What if, I have combined profit from intra, F&O, LTCG and STCG does the exemption still apply? How will I treat it?
E.g.
Intra net profit- 3lkh
F&O net profit- 5lkh
LTCG- 4lkh
STCG- 4lkh
A. Total taxable amount=
(3+5+4+4) – 2.5(tax exemption)= 13.5lkh
Then treat specific amount remaining as per their tax slab?
Like treat extra profit from intra as per their tax slab, STCG as per their tax slab etc.
Or
B. 16lkh combined taxable profit in which no tax exemption apply.
Which one is correct or are both wrong?
Thanks.
Combine all your income, and then pay as per your tax slab. STCG is maximum of flat 15%, but everything else you will have to pay at normal income tax slabs. So for day trading if you are in the highest slab, it will be at 30%
My profit in f&o is 10k for FY2017-18. And i didn’t earn any other income. Should I need to audit and pay tax?
No need to pay tax or get audited. But make sure to file your ITR3
1. I have professional Income: Rs 210000,
LIC Rs3750.
2. short term capital loss Rs 38000. ( Delivery based)
3. Speculative business loss Rs 225000 ( Intraday)
4. Non Speculative Business Income Rs 44000 ( Future & Options)
5. Turnover in all cases is less than 2 crore.
please advise me whether the audit is required or not? confusion is coming to calculate taxable income
Professional income: Rs 240000 ( Net Profit)
Intraday Loss: Rs 196290, Intraday turnover Rs 577250
short-term capital gain Rs 54000 (will be taxed @15%)
Now my question is whether I need to get an audit done as Turnover is less than 2 cr and profit is less than 8% of turnover?
I think though my total income is below 250000 I am paying 15% short-term capital loss so whether audit required help?
hi my turnover is 1.5crore upto now in intraday trading and i made profit of 20000 in intraday trading.
can you just tell me whether the audit is required or not ?
is there will be any special taxation on this turnover?
No taxes to pay on turnover. Taxes is always on profits, and that too as per income tax slabs after you have combined all your income. Audit requirement will be there if your total income is over 2.5lks
sir,
I have started trading recently ( May 2017 ).
I mostly buy delivery based
and then wait for minimum 8% profit and then sell it.
Sometimes a sudden over night spurt in price also gives me ten to fifteen % Returns.
This cash I use to buy some other shares which are likely to Rise.
If shares I bought spurts Immediately on buying by cash….then also I sell off same day ,making it an Intra day Trade.
currently my turnover has reached fourty lakhs.
In income tax returns I file as an LIC Agent.
Now this Additional business of Trading…. should I declare as capital gains
( Is it allowed )
OR
should I declare it as a additional Trading business income…
I preffer to avoid AUDIT.
and want to increase my turnover upto just below Two crores
and prefferrably book profits at 6 %. instead of 8%.
churn…more n..more by properly timing entry n exit.
Also sell more on spurts in same day.
so…that Turnover Limit of Two Crore is Fully Valid..??????
Profit Booking at 6%is also Valid Legally…allowed…?????
Pls clarify…Year ending is close by.
I will be buying 1.5 lakhs worth ELSS mutual for Deduction under section vi. before year end.
Its a pleasure trading with ZERODHA.
Also now as limit of turnover is Two Crores….why its not shown 2 crores as TITLE…in your article on TURNOVER.
Thanks
Urvashi Mody
Intraday is speculative business income and delivery is capital gains. IF you are actively day trading, it is best to get an audit done. But otherwise, no audit if profit more than 6% of turnover. Need to get that image redesigned for 2 crores.
Sir,
Can we setoff f&o loss against the short term capital gain?
Regards
Prateek Bansal
Dear sir/ madam
I am a salaried person having following incomes and losses
1. Salary income is 900000
2. intraday loss of 1500 for 5000 turnover (about 3 intraday transactions)
3. Shortterm capital again of 6500 over sale value of 250000
Plz tell me which ITR form I has to use for AY 2018_19.
I DON’T WANT TO SHOW ABOVE LOSSES in e filing
If audit is required, may I show loss as profit more than 8 percent in ITR 3 to avoid audit or may I earn more intraday income to have more than 8 percent of profite. Plz guide me about filing e return without having any audit. May I use presumtive ITR
Yeah, you can show profit and avoid audit. ITR3
I have 14 lacs loss in fno. I work for a firm doing arbitrage in cash to futures on which I get 50 % sharing as profit, I have earned a profit of 16 lacs on same so can I set off the same against fno loss. I also have commission income of 5 lacs. Interest income of 1 lac. My turnover is 90 lacs. 8 % comes to 7.2 lacs so will I be eligible for no audit?
If salary income, it can’t be setoff. But if it is shown as business income, then yeah. If all your business income, total profit is less than 6% of turnover, then you will need audit.
Thank you very much for the reply Mr Nitin.
Its not salary income, its business income wherein i am doing arbitrage for a firm who in return pays me 50 % share of the profits. Also can commision income which is 5 lacs can also be considere which i mentioned above.
Thanks again
Also have income of FD interest of 75 k, + misc income received in cash of 46k which i deposited in bank, so can this income also setoff against fno losses? Also what if my turnover goes above 1 crore but remains under 1.2 crores
Yes, as a business, you can show interest in FD + all cash income also as a business income and setoff losses. From last year, the turnover requirement has been raised to 2 crores.
Yes, if business income, you can adjust.
thank you so much for your prompt reply, much appreciated.
Plz share links for filling balance sheet and p&l statement of ITR3.
Hi Nithin,
i have no salary income i am full time trader and just doing trading in F&O
i have net profit (after deduction of brokerage and charge) is 11 lakh for this year
and turnover is 27 lakh
do i need audit?
how much deduction will i get? 2.5 lakh or 3 lakh?
and how much advance tax i have to pay?
and how many % i have to pay tax? 15 %, 20% or 30%? what will be my tax slab?
You would not need audit. Tax slabs will be like for an individual, first 2.5lks no tax, 2.5 to 5lks at 5%, and so on. Advance tax has to be paid end of every quarter.
Hello Sir,
I just trade in intraday F&O.
For pay advance tax
in Capital Gain section there are two option in STCG (1) Short Term Capital GainS (Other than covered under section 111A)
(2)Short Term Capital GainS (Covered under section 111A)
So which option i have to select?
Hello Nitin,
I have one doubt as i am a bit confused about this:-
Income : Around 9 Lacs
Loss :- 2 Lacs (F&O)
Turnover less than 1 crore
Already tax deducted from my salary as I am in taxable slab so Still my audit need to be done.
As I heard from one of CA that if you have given tax then no audit is required.
Yeah, audit will be needed. Check the chapter on turnover https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/
Hi Nithin,
I have a loss 2,50,000 in f&o this year. My total loss is with nifty options and bank nifty options.
My salary is more than 20,00,000 per anum. What is the best way to claim the loss in this financial year.
Is there any simple way to file the loss without audit & all ?
Thanks,
Surendra.
You will need to file ITR3 before july. Getting an audit is quite simple, check the chapter on turnover/audit.
Hi,
My FNO turnover for FY16-17 is Rs 2.1 crore. Profits is rs. 22000.
Interest income from my FDs is 1.1 lakhs.
I didn’t file ITR as i have no taxable income. But got a mail from IT asking to file ITR before 31st march 2018.
a) Though my total income is below 2.5 lakhs, do i need a tax audit based on FNO turnover?
b) In case if audit is required, how to avoid the penalty(0.5% of turnover) for late submission of tax audit report?
Firstly, can you look at the chapter on turnover and see if you are actually over 2crores in turnover. You can take an aggressive approach to calculate it. Turnover is not trading volume. Also the penalty is levied at discretion of assessing officer. Since you haven’t evaded any taxes, you can request for this not to be levied.
Hi Nithin ,
I am salaried employee , I am having net intraday loss on equity – > (2000)
and F/o loss of 20000 . Now which ITR do i need to file based on the situation , so that i can carry forward the losses for 4 years in case of Intraday and 8 years in case of f/o .
Can i also show the Business expenses in the ITR though i am a salaried employee ?
Please response .
ITR3 and yes you can use it even if u r salaried.
Hi Nithin,
It was a great article but as it says all conditions, it’s confusing me.
So here it is what I want to know.
I was thinking of doing share trading so decided to get an idea about income tax rules, that’s why I am here.
1. I don’t have any other income (salary, business, rent etc… ), I jest want to trade in Stock Market, really do I need to file Tax Return?! Generally every traders does that?! What if my trading volume is very low ?!
2. As far I don’t have any other source income, what ever my trading volumes whatever I trade (Equity /F&O) what ever my profit or loss, in what scenario it requires an Audit?!
3. Classifying my STCG,( either business income or STCG )is jest in my hand or it required any thing to do official prior to filing?! (I hope you understand my question)
4. I was out of the country for 15 months , but I was in india from 28/09/2017 to 25/02/2018, I will be out of India for another 11 months, does that makes me to fall into NRI ?! And does it will have any effect on my IT for the year 2018-19?!
5.
Advance Thanks
1. Best to file ITR, good practice it is. But if you don’t have income more than 2.5lks, not mandatory.
2. If you have to pay taxes (2.5lks and over income) and your turnover over 2crores or less than 6% of turnover.
3. In ur hand.
4. Yeah, if u r abroad for more than 180 days, u become NRI. Taxation doesn’t really change much.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Can i sell a stock for loss harvesting and purchase the same again immediately stcg ?
Not same day, but you can sell today and buy it back once the stock moves out of your demat.
Hello Sir,
A. Your method- sell, then buy again once they exit your demat on the NEXT day.
B. Another option maybe?- sell on NSE buy on BSE on SAME day.
1. Can I use option B?
2. Are both options, ethical?
Unrelated question.
3. A. Sir, on placing a CNC trade in Zerodha. After it gets executed it also gives an option to convert it into an intraday trade. Assume it goes into profit right away and I convert it and sell it on same day. Will I be charged (brokerage etc.) for CNC, MIS or both?
3. B. How will it be recorded in my trade summary in Q? As an intraday or a CNC transaction?
Thanks.
1/2. hmm.. ethical I don’t know. But yeah, both of this can be followed.
3. The entire buy and sell trade will be charged as intraday. No charges for conversion etc. Q/contract note etc will all be as if it was intraday.
Hello Sir,
Another matter regarding Tax Loss Harvesting!
I am a client of Zerodha and another broker Upstox Pro.
I have demat holding stocks in Upstox Pro that are in loss and if I sell those in Upstox Pro and buy them back in Zerodha! Won’t the following be true?
A. I book losses buy back the same quantity, and this move can be considered as a form of tax loss harvesting.
B. Saves me the hassel of ‘Stock Transfer’ via ‘DIS Slips’
1. Can anything go wrong in this?
2. Can the IT dept. send me a notice if I do this?
One unrelated question.
3. Sir if I transfer a Mututal Fund from Upstox Pro to Zerodha. Do I have to manually enter anything?
Like date of purchase, no.of installments completed etc.
Thanks.
A. Yes it can be.
B. Nothing wrong with this.
3. Yes you can transfer mutual funds as well. We sell direct mutual funds as compared to regular that is sold by our competition. So your savings are a lot more. Since what you have bought is already regular, maybe it will be best to exit them and buy it afresh with us in direct. Check this https://coin.zerodha.com/
Hi Nithin,
i am trading with zerodha from last 3 years … i trade in F&O options bank nifty… i am a full time trader and every year i lost close to 6 to 8 lacs … i dont work anywhere nor i have a bussiness… do i need to file ITR which i have not done in last 3 years because of loss.
kindly suggest.
thank you
hi krishna
since you are trading in F&O, it will be treated as Income from Business. Since you have suffered losses, it is important for you to file returns before Due dates so that you can carry forward such losses and adjust in future income.
if you don’t file your returns, you will loose the benefit of carry forward losses. at the same time you will receive Notice from IT for being Non-filer.
regards
anil
Thanks Anil…
i need to file for all the 3 years are just this financial year
Sir,
Income from my salary is 7,20,000/- and my intraday profit is 8500/- and intraday turnover is 9300/- and short-term loss is 12000 with short term turnover of 3,00,000. I have following queries:
1. Which ITR form is to be filled in my case.
2. Whether audit is required to be done in my case.
3. Can I show short term profit/loss to be 0.
1. ITR3
2. If you can show 6% of your turnover as profit and file, then no need of audit. Otherwise yeah.
3. You can show 0, but you can show loss and carry forward the loss.
Thanks Mr. Nithin
Regarding Point 3, if I show actual loss incurred , will the audit be required.
Short term loss is a capital loss and not business loss. So showing this loss doesn’t have to do anything with audit. (audit only in case of business)
Hello sir ,
My income below 1 lakh.
Start trading 5/03/2018 = in zerodha turnover showing ₹169.75 and loss is also ₹169.75;
And I also invest in stock market 5/03/2018= ₹1500 (hold till now );
Mutual fund investment = ₹5000 (hold till now)
Sir my questions is ,
It is required to file income tax return in my case because income below 2.5 lakhs. Sir if file then audit also required.
Not mandatory to file, no need of audit. But it is a good practice to start filing.
Dear Sir,
Sir help me on this, I am a beginner,
1. I started trading(Mostly intraday , some delivery) in March 2018. For the month of march i made profit 10,000/- do i have to file return for this FY 17-18. I dont have any other income.
2. How to calculate the Turnover actually reply with the Link of Turnover
For Eg: Buy value – 10,00,000 & Sell value – 10,10,000 /- is it right my turnover is 20,10,000/- or wrong ? profit is 10,000/-
1. If your total income for year is just 10,000, no need to file ITR.
2. Turnover is not trading turnover. CHeck this https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/
Hi Nithin,
I got a letter from IT office for non-filing of returns for Assessment year 2014-15. TDS of Rs.2600 was deducted from a commission income of Rs.26,000 that year. As i Incurred loss in trading and my TDS was just Rs.2600, I haven’t filed a return.
As Zerodha referral income, I got some payout in 2016-17, 2017-18 and 2018-19 (max Rs.7031) and the TDS was deducted by Zerodha. Shall I file AY 2015-16 returns before 31-March-2018? As per your blog, I think its impossible to file returns for 2014-’15 AY. Right?
Is it necessary to buy a Trader plan from Cleartax for Rs.6500 and file returns?
Please advise.
Best to file all returns that you can. You could take the cleartax one or if u know any CA near you.
1, Do we need to submit ITR copy to broker/NSE if we trade in high volumes ?
2. Is there any limit beyond which ITR copy is compulsory ?
3. Is ITR copy required for trading in F & O ?
Thank you.
1.No
2. No
3. Yeah, some kind of income proof.
Hey Nithin I have faced loss of 107830 rupees in intraday. Do I need to file return as I already have faced loss.. And I don’t have any other income too so is it ok if I don’t file return..
Please reply
Not mandatory to file ITR, but best to.
Hi,
My Taxable salary – 7,00,000
Intraday Loss – 25,000
Tax for the salary – 58,000
Already paid – 49,000 through deductions from my company
My Questions
1) When i file tax.. how should i show my intraday loss??
2) Is there any tax for intraday losses have i to pay?
3) Is there any audit required in my case??
3) My wife home maker, she traded intraday in this financial year first time and loss 5,000, she never filed income tax, She has to file tax this year??
Kindly clarify me
Thanks
1. Use ITR3
2. No tax on loss.
3. Yeah, you might have to.
4. No tax unless income over 2.5lks.
hi
i am a salaried person with less than 2,50,000/- , recently i started trading in share market for that with ITR should in flie as a nil return
Yeah, best to file ITR
ITR 1 OR 2 WHICH ONE
If you are doing only equity delivery, then ITR2. If you do intraday and all, ITR3.
I have STCG loss. Can I use the loss to offset the gains in Intraday equity or FnO?
not possible, as they are different business heads.
Hi Nithin,
Till last year i.e. till 31st March 2017 i was in full time employment and from 1st April,2018 I am into equity investing and providing professional services also (limited). Income from FNO- (2 lac) negative, Income from Intraday trading- 3 lac positive, Income from delivery based trading (less than 1 year holding) -5 lac positive and Income from long term equity holding- 3 lac positive and income from professional service around 1 lac. My query is that can I claim all the above incomes/loss as business Income except income from long term equity holding as I have invested in long term equity when I was in job and which has accrued now after 1 year. Please let me know your views
Yea, you can.
which of these can be used as expenses while filing ITR and which are not
1. Brokerage 2.Turnover charges 3. STT 4. Service Tax 5. Stamp Duty 6. SEBI charges
All of them can be shown as expense
Sir,
Did you not say that STT cannot be claimed? (In one of the above comments)
Thanks.
STT in case of capital gains can’t be claimed. For business income no issues. Btw, I am talking of claiming as an expense, not claiming as tax paid.
Can audit be done online?Without taking help from an CA because My turnover is high but profit is not. So, I can’t afford a CA.
hmm.. maybe speak to cleartax and see.
Can I show the profit earned from cash intraday speculative trading as short term capital gain in that case I have to pay 15% flat tax which will be less as the profit is more than 1 cr.
hmm.. no..
Hi Nithin
My query is regarding fy 2017-18
My income from comm is 6.50 lac
Trading income is – 4 lac
In this year I had also started trading in shares
Profit from f&o (shares) – 8 lac
Loss from commodity (natural gas and copper) – 5.50 lac
Loss from shares (delivery based stt paid) (kept 1-364) days – 7 lac
Now my question is
1. Can I consider all three type of share transaction I.e f&o, delivery based shares and commodity as trading and consider profit / loss as business profit/ loss ? In my case can I consider 8 – 5.50 -7 = 4.50 as my business loss and adjust it with my communion and trading income of 6.50 + 4 lac = 10.50 – 4.50 lac (loss from shares/f&o/commodity) = 6 lac total income
Means to say that can I treat all kind of share transaction as trading instead of short term capital gain / long term capital gain
If trading is ok then at what value I can show stocks in my balance sheet ? At purchase price / price on last trading day of 31.3.18?
Or
Can I adjust loss/profit of my f&o and commodity to business income and carry forward short term capital loss ?
Tnx
Kansal
1. Intraday equity comes under separate business head – speculative business income. Everything else capital gains/F&O/comm can be shown as non-speculative business income. These can be netted off against each other.
2. If you are showing equity delivery as business, you can mtm the price as on 31st march and carry forward. Or else you can also show the P&L as unrealized and carry forward. Upto you.
3. Yes, you can adjust and carry forward STCL.
Hi ,
My salary is 555,000, in that company provided to get tax exempt for 150000 . in this amount i have saved with LIC and some saving scheme of 80000 , so for rest all amount company deducts tax on each month and based on that form-16 will be generated.
Apart from this i got short term equity gain for FY 17 – 18 is 23000 how much tax i should pay for this amount. while filing my tax returns.
on 23000 you have to pay 15%.
On March 28th 2018 on the expiry day I had a speculative intraday income of 50 lakh… For which broker gave the money after 3 days as there was public holiday so was unable to pay the advance tax. Will interest of 12% be charged for default in payment of advance tax as it seems illogical.
I want to open account with zerodha but I need phone trading facility on a fixed monthly charges as I prefer trading over phone.
hmm.. no.. For the last quarter, you get time to pay advance tax.
I am a seafarer, and have nri status for the purpose of income tax. My itaxable income is effectively 0. My intra day speculative profit as per zerodha statement is 28k . Charges like brokerage,taxes on the trades were 25k. Should i pay tax for 28k or the actual profi realised 5k? What form should i use.
On net profit of 5k. ITR3 form.
Good day sir,
I am a merchant navy officer and a NRE account holder. I have done my NRE time for 2017-18. My P&L sheet from Zerodha says this Intra-day / Speculative profit -26236.80
Intra-day / Speculative turnover 62548.50
Short-term profit 107190.10
Short-term turnover 3053603.85
Now my CA says you have to pay tax 15% on Short-term profit 107190.10. Is he right? because I am confused, as I have lost some money in Intra day. Wouldnt that be counted when calculating total gain ?
Kindly advice
Thanks in advance
He is right. You can’t net off speculative business income (intraday) and short term capital gain.
If My income is 12 lacs in f&o trading
what will be the tax slab for that income
15% on that income or
30% according to tax slab
First 2.5lks nothing, 2.5 to 5lks 5%, 5 to 10lks 20% and over 10lks 30%
Dear Sir,
I am trading only intraday in stock market. Including future and optiins.
No delivery based trade.
I had earned total net profit of 980000 Rs in last financial year.
Now which ITR return should I fill?
What is my total tax liability.
ITR3. You need to add your profit to all your other income and pay tax as per the IT slab you fall in.
Dear sir
I am a day trader, doing only intraday in cash and fno in the name of my HUF account. My total profit for last financial year is 1500000.
So what is my tax liability and can you please explain slab wise
Can i have any investment option for tax savings of my HUF account?
You need to add the income to all your other income and pay tax as per your income tax slab. Go through the module once.
My turnover in intraday trading is nearly 30 lacks and income is 980000.
Can I prompt for presumptive income tax scheme?
If yes what tax should I pay?
No, best to use ITR3 and pay tax as per income tax slab you fall in.
Hello, please clarify if Fno trading losses can be set off against delivery based short term or long term equity profits ?
if you are showing delivery based as business gains, yeah it can be.
Can we show delivery based profits as business gains or it comes under capital gains?
You can, if you are doing this as a business. Do go through the entire module here.
Dear Sir,
I am working in the bank and earn a salary of 3 lac per annum.
I had also earned profit of 8lac from intraday trading in equity and not delivery based.
Now what is my tax liability and which ITR should I used?
My Chartered Account tell me that you can not show salary income in ITR3.
Plz advice
ITR3, of course you can show salary income on ITR3. You need to add 8lks to 3lks and pay tax as per your IT slab.
Hi. I wanted to know, for futures and options traders, both in stock and community segment, do they need to register under GST?
Not required.
I started trading previous may. I am not a salaried person. I traded only nifty futures. I have earned 3.5 lakhs approx. What will be my tax rate ? Is it 30% on 3.5 lakhs?
No, IT slab in India – first 2.5lks no tax, 2.5 – 5lks is 5%
Dear sir,
I am a salaried person from a private sector(TDS detucted by my organisation) & just before two months I started trading in intraday equity. I usually efile ITR-1 return myself throug online. Now my question is:-
1) Should I file both ITR-1 for salary & ITR-4 for intraday trading.
2) Should I file my return in advance or at the end of the year & what will be my tax slab(My salary is 8.4 lac P.A
3) Is it must to get audited( I have all documents in electronic form)
1. No, just ITR3.
2. If you start making profits from intraday, you will have to pay advance tax, like you pay TDS on your salary. You will have to add your trading profits to your salary, and then determine the tax slab.
3. Not necessary if you profits is more than 6% of turnover (not trading turnover, the P&L turnover. Check the chapter on turnover).
Hello,
I started trading from Dec 2017 and My profits for FY 2017-18 ( as per Zerodha Q report ) are as follows
Intra-day / Speculative profit 110.00
Intra-day / Speculative turnover 126.00
Short-term profit 1925.00
Short-term turnover 26325.00
Long-term profit 0.00
Long-term turnover 0.00
I have not paid any advance tax for my speculative profits since I was unaware of the topic.
After reading this article, I realize that I must now pay the advance tax along with 12% interest penalty.
But after some further research, I also found that No Advance tax payable if estimated tax liability for whole financial year is less than Rs. 10,000, which is not mentioned in this article.
Kindly advice whether I need to pay the advance tax with penalty for my speculative profit of Rs. 110, or I only need to pay tax on the speculative profit without any penalty since the amount is less than Rs. 10,000?
If your total income is only this, of course no advance tax.
sir,i have two doubts…
1)turnover cross rule(i.e,1crore) is seperate for both eqity and f&o (i.e,for equity one crore and for f&o one crore) or for equity and f&o (both combindely one crore) ..??
2)my scrip wise turnover showing 1 crore 20 lakhs turnover and my tradewise turnover showing 9 lakhs turnover and my loss is 5,50,000 do i need tax audit ??for fy (2016-17)
1. If equity you are showing as business, then combined. Otherwise if equity shown as capital gains, then no need to show this for turnover.
2. Best to get an audit always. Do consult a CA, if you show tradewise turnover and don’t have other income, no need of audit.
my equity and futures turnover are same in tradewise and scripwise turnover..but my options turnover showing in scripwise it showing around 78 lakhs in tradewise turnover downloaded statement it showing total tradewise turnover with options sell value is “0 ”
my ca also in confusion regarding options turnover which to consider….
If you can wait till this weekend, we will have beta of the new Q out. There might be something wrong in your tradewise. Tradewise is the best option.
Hello sir,
I have a simple question. Can there be ever situation in India, in which retail investors are banned from investing in stock market ? I am talking only about investing and trading in stocks by retail investors in cash segment … NOT the derivatives. Can there be ban on retail investors to invest or trade in stocks in cash segment due to any reason ?
Thank You
Hmm.. don’t think it can ever happen.
Thank you sir, I got it what you are telling, just one last query sir ,,, that SEBI argues that in F&O , retail investors make losses and do risky trading which they are not aware of much,, and trying to put them somewhat away from it. Similarly can they not say that retail investors make losses in investments in shares or trading in shares … so that is the reason to ban retail investors from investing and trading in shares (cash market) and instead allow retail investors to invest ONLY through MUTUAL FUNDS and not from themselves ?
Is this a possible situation according to you sir ?
Thanks in advance ..
🙂 hmm.. I don’t think this will ever happen.
RESPECTED SIR,
I am salaried and total incomein fy 17-18 is 430000 , but after all the exemptions my tds is zero .
i joined zerodha in mar and upto march 31 trade details are follows
Intra-day / Speculative profit -3358.25
Intra-day / Speculative turnover 11375.15
Total charges 7492.12
please advise me which itr to submit. is there any need to audit. and what if my tds was 1000, in that case any thing change.
one last question if we incurred loss in intraday EQ and F&O and turn over is less than 1 cr. do we have to pay tax over that loss or turn over.
ITR3. Since your turnover is just just 11k, maybe you can declare 6% of this as profit and pay any tax, to avoid audit. Taxes are paid only on profits, you don’t have to pay anything because your turnover is high.
Thank you so much sir for your kind and helpful nature.
Hello Sir,
If profit is less than 6% turnover, but in order to avoid audit we declare 6% profit. In this case do we file for presumptive income ITR4?
Thanks.
You can do this on normal ITR3 as well.
Sir,
Please Know me about code for nature of business in shares trading business (FNO) for AY 2018-19.
which code use inspite of old code-0204 in ITR-3 of AY 2018-19. for shares trading business ( FNO )
Regards.
Maybe you can use this now: Stock brokers, sub-brokers and related activities 13015
Hey Nithin, but thats code series is for “FINANCIAL INTERMEDIATION SERVICES”. So I think, the individual cant claim that as a business unless they are intermiating, like say Zerodha or karvy does.
May be “Retail sale of other products n.e.c” code -09028 in code series “WHOLESALE AND RETAIL TRADE” will work.
What is your opinion on this?
You could use this to.
Can i pay advance tax in lumpsum, say, 100,000 and then claim refund post calculation
Yes
Dear Sir
STCG OR INTRADAY PROFIT SLAB ARE SAME ?????
Regards
Ajay
No. STCG is at the highest flat rate of 15%
Sir
last year my P&L in F&O is -80000 and my turnover is less thank 40L
1. do i need to get audited to claim the loss so i can adjust in future
2. can i add 10000 as miscellaneous expenses
1. yes
2. yes, if related to anything around trading.
Please mention the nature of business code in ITR-4S for F&O and commodity traders. Previous year the code was 204.
You can maybe use this Stock brokers, sub-brokers and related activities 13015
Dear Sir,
I like to understand from you following:
I have made a profit of 150000.00 from April 2018 from my business. Now I intend to do intraday day trading. Incase if I make profit from intraday trading can I club my profit from business and profit from intraday trading (Speculative Income) and file ITR 4 for income from speculation? The new ITR form 4 requires GST no even for income from speculation. Is GST no mandatory for all income tax returns? Would appreciate your advice.
New ITR4 doesn’t need GST, if you don’t have – you can leave it blank. GST not mandatory. Best to use ITR3 itself.
Thanks sir for your reply. What I wanted to know really is I have been filing ITR (Sugam) for the past 3 years for income from my small business. If I start my trading in intraday can I club my income from business and trading profit under same ITR 4 ? if so what heading I should give for each item?
Would appreciate your reply.
Thanks,
narayan
ITR4 doesn’t have a breakup of speculative and non-speculative. Ideally you should just file ITR3.
Goodevening sir,
MY TURNOVER IS 20 LAKHS AND MY LOSS IS 78000 BUT MY SAVINGS BANK AC CREDITS ARE AROUND 3.5 LAKHS OUTOF WHICH 2 LAKHS DEPOSITED THROUGH CDM AND REMAINING BY TRANSFERS.. ALL ARE RELATIVE INCOME…SO IN THIS WAY MY INCOME CROSSED 2.5 LAKHS DO I NEED ANY TAX AUDIT OR ITR FILLING ??
I DISCUSSED THIS WITH CA HE SAID IT IS BETTER TO FILE ITR……
Yeah best to file ITR and also get it audited.
हेलो सर्
मैं एक salary person हूं और मेरी salary income 6.50 लाख है
1 maine last year equity delivery से 6000 का प्रॉफिट लिया है
2 indraday turn over 12000 है और loss 9000 है
3 F/O TURN OVER 30000 है और LOSS 22000 है
अब अगर मैं TURN OVER 42000 का 6 PERCENT 2520 रुपये profit dikha के इस पर tax pay करूँ जो कि 500 रुपये होगा तो क्या मुझे audit की जरूरत होगी
मुझे कौनसा form भरना होगा
मैं loss को carry फॉरवर्ड नही करना चाहता हूँ
क्या मैं itr खुद भर सकता हूँ
Yeah, if you show profit, no need of audit.
AUCTIONED SHARE pe tax kaise कैलकुलेट होगा
मैंने गलती से 40 शेयर hdfc के 1729 में sell कर दिए और अगले दिन 1748 में buy कर लिए
बाद में मेरे शेयर 1830 में auctioned हो गए मैंने बाद में उन्हें 1760 में sell किया अब इस पर tax कैसे कैलकुलेट होगा
Ipo में जो शेयर मिलता है उस पर भी tax कैसे कैलकुलेट होगा @NITHIN
IPO – your allotment price to your sell price. The profit is capital gain, you pay tax on that.
In auction, consider the auctioned trade as buy trade with the auction price. Everything else remains the same. So two buy trades 1748, 1830, two sell trades 1729 and 1760.
Nitin, I heard there is no taxation on IPO stock purchases and selling? The reason why I’d ask this is because my IPO trades do not show up under the STCG trade list. I think they’ve not been computed by Zerodha. I bought several IPOs last year, not a single one appears. Please clarify if I have to calculate the profits and add them into STGC according to my tax filing?
You will have to calculate and add them to STCG if it isn’t showing on your tax P&L. Can you create a ticket on support.zerodha.com to see why it isn’t showing up.
Sure, I just raised the ticket. Hopefully they work on it and resolve as soon as possible.
Hi Nithin,
Kudos for a wonderful initiative!
Please help me with the following situations-
A)
Rental Income – 1 lakh
Interest income – 1 lakh
Intraday profit – 19k with turnover 2 lakh
Short term loss – 30k with turnover 5 lakh
I have the following queries:
1) Do I have to file ITR at all?
2) If yes, which Form?
3) Is an audit required?
B)
F&O profit 2 lakhs with turnover of 1 crore 25 lakhs
Interest income – 20k
I have the following queries:
1) Do I have to file ITR at all?
2) If yes, which Form?
3) Is an audit required?
C)
F&O profit 50 lakhs with turnover of 1 crore
Interest income – 20k
I have the following queries:
1) Is an audit required?
2) Can I declare 6% presumptive profit and am exempt from keeping books and audit?
3) If the profit in above situation is 5 lakhs with 1 crore turnover, can I still show 6% presumptive profit and am exempt from keeping books and audit?
Thank you,
MG
A 1. Not mandatory, but best to file. 2. ITR3 3. Not required
B 1. Not mandatory, but best to file. 2. ITR3 3. Not required
C 1. Not required 2. Don’t take the presumptive route if you are going to avoid paying taxes normally. 3. Yes, as long as this route doesn’t cause any loss to the IT dept.
Thank you Nithin for your response. However I am confused and have following queries:
1) If filing ITR is not mandatory for A & B above then a) why should one file? Are there any implications for non-filing? b) If one does chose to file, will an audit be required?
2) Can you please elaborate more on your response for C 2 above i.e. “Don’t take the presumptive route if you are going to avoid paying taxes normally”. I understand that presumptive route is given for certain business and turnover and if one chooses this then one can’t claim any expenses as deductions. So, not sure I understand what it means to say “Don’t take the presumptive route if you are going to avoid paying taxes normally”. One will be paying taxes on the 6% presumptive profit as per applicable slabs.
3) For C 3., one will be declaring more profit than actual profit so is that a problem? Please elaborate on your response “Yes, as long as this route doesn’t cause any loss to the IT dept.”
Idea of going under the presumptive route is to be exempt from maintaining books and audit. In this regard, please help understand the best option that is in conformity with law. Some other questions are i) Can one declare more than 6% profit while still availing the benefits of presumptive route i.e. exemption from keeping books and audit needs? ii) Can one still have other benefits like under Section 80 C while calculating tax liability under presumptive route?
Thank you
MG
1. If you have traded and not declared on ITR, there are chance of getting a notice from IT department. Similar to you having transactions on bank statement without an income. If you aren’t having a tax to pay, you will just have to explain the same. Have answered about audit already.
2. If you make 50lks, your tax as per tax slab will approximately Rs 13lks. If you instead declare 6% or 6lks as income, you will pay tax of less than 50k. You taking this route clearly is a case of avoiding paying more tax. The presumptive route is not for this.
3. Yeah, showing more profit than actual profit is okay. Like I said nothing that can cause IT department to lose.
Check the chapter on ITR forms.
Thanks Nithin!
So i) Can one declare more than 6% profit while still availing the benefits of presumptive route i.e. exemption from keeping books and audit needs? ii) Can one still have other benefits like under Section 80 C while calculating tax liability under presumptive route?
1. Yes, not required. But for Last FY 2017-18 in the ITR , government has added a financial particulars for which you need to prepare basic data to fill .
2. Yes deduction sections are separate of earnings. So you can claim all benefits.
Hi nithin,
I have a doubt. Please kindly solve it. If i buy a future at say 100 on monday, and then i sell it on tuesday at 120 and i square it off at say 110 on tuesday itself. Then i sell that future on wednesday at 90. So what is my turnover ?
is it like |100-120| + |110-90| = 40 OR is it like |120-110| + |110-90| = 20 ??
If it is tradewise, then i think it should be 40 … but if intraday has to be clubbed then it should be 20 ?? Am i correct ??
It is 40. In F&O no concept of intraday.
Dear sir,
i am salaried person and my total salary in 2017-18 4,42,000/- and i started trading in 2017-18 and i made loss of rs.45000/- in option trading and no profit gain ..
1. traded in options turn over is 6,60,000/-
2.traded in equity turn over is 25,000/-
is am i do get audited by CA…. Kindly help me in this regard….
Yeah ideally you would. But you can also show 6% of your turnover as profit and pay tax as per your IT slab to avoid audit. Do speak to your CA.
Hi Nithin ,
Thanks for all your efforts. I never thought I can do stock investing until I found Zerodha Varsity.
I am salaried person and was using ITR-1 till last year. I started with Zerodha in Jan’2018 , and did trades only in EQ-Delivery.
Now , for the last FY I have only losses of few thousands, no profits from Delivery trades. And turnover is around 5.5 lakhs.
I am to show myself as investor, not trader.
So,
1 – Which ITR I should use now?
2 – Do I need to show my losses?
3 – If I understand, I can use these losses next year against any profits to reduce actual tax, if any. Correct?
Thanks a lot,
SK
1. ITR2
2. Yeah, you can show losses, carry forward it to future years. You can net off against future profits.
3. Yes.
Dear Nitin,
Brilliant idea to put up a varsity and more so answer queries so diligently! Thanks!
I have been trading with zerodha for over three years and have a question on tax filing due to F&O , CDS gains. My turnover is over 3cr in F&O so I am consulting a CA for tax filing.
Apart from Equity income (most significant) , F&O , CDS gains, I have no salary but some income from rent, FD etc. (total about 3L) and some deductions under 80C etc. Though my F&O and CDS gains are together 22K, my CA is suggesting that I show an income of over 6.01% of the F&O and CDS turnover which is almost 2L. This takes up most of my standard deduction range and results in higher tax liability.
I need your expert advice on should I continue with this 6% gain method or go for actual gain calculations in my return? Is there a way to find out the difference in tax that I would be paying ?
Regards,
S. Gupta
Firstly can you read this chapter on turnover https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/. Turnover isn’t trading turnover. It wouldn’t make sense to show 6% of turnover as profit if your turnover is so high. You rather get an audit done and file your returns, audit will mean some more CA expense, but that is okay I guess.
Thank you Nithin for your advise!
Another related question – if the F&O and CDS turnover is 38 lakhs, and the actual profit is 60k is an audit report mandatory since the reported profit is less than 6% ?
Yeah, it would be.
Dear Nithin,
Great job on putting together this site! Thanks!
I am an investor and have a question on business turnover (from trading – I have no other business or salary income). My F&O turnover is 20L with 1% (20K) profit and Intraday turnover is 20K with 75% profit (15K). I don’t want to go for tax audit and hence will report 6% profit.
1. Is my business turnover to be reported as 2,020,000 (F&O + Intraday)?
2. Is the profit to be reported as 6% of 2,020,000 i.e.121,200
Or should it be at least 6% individually on F&O i.e 120,000 and Intraday (actual 15,000/-) – total 135,000 ?
Regards
1. Yea
2. Yes 1.21 lks.
Thank You!
Another question – when filling the full value of consideration/cost of acquisition for equity in ITR3, should the “LIQUIDBEES” transaction shown in Zerodha trade report be considered ?
Regards
Yes LiquidBees should also be sold, both purchase and redemption.
Dear Nithin,
Need your help for the following situation w.r.t. ITR filing / taxation:
Salary Income – Rs.45,00,000/-
Interest from Bank FDs & Savings – Rs.2,05,000/-
Dividend Income – Rs. 9,700/-
Income from Tax Free Bonds – Rs. 94,000/-
Short term capital gains – Rs. 59,000/-
Long Term Capital gains – Rs. 26,600/-
F&O Loss – (-ve) Rs. 183,000/-; Turnover from Zerodha statement – Rs. 733,260/-
80C & NPS deduction – Rs.200,000/-
Exempt section 10 – Rs. 21,600/-
1. How is the tax computed in this case?
2. I understand that ITR-4 cannot be filed as there is Capital gains; is it correct?
3. in case of ITR-3 filing; is it possible to declare 6% of F&O turnover as business income; and avoid audit
4. In case your advice is ITR-3 with audit, can Zerodha recommend CAs in New Delhi / Noida adept at this.
regards,
Sumit
1. You can reduce your F&O loss from your interest income.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. You can reach out to cleartax, check this.
I am a pensioner .Recently I have entered in share market ,both short term and interday . My income and profit/loss are as follows
Pension 3,14,793
Int Income 3,57,666
Interday profit 38,004 . Turn over 44,519
short term loss 1,40,466 turn over 49,80,122
total charges 20,267
Please inform me
Whether I have to make audit?
Whether I have to prepare balance sheet ?
How I shall adjust profit and loss?
What will be my tax liabilities ?
Which form / return I have to submit ?
Thank You .
No need of audit as your business profit is more than 6% of turnover (intraday trading).
Yes, you have to make as you will need to file ITR3.
You can’t adjust intraday profit with short term capital losses.
Intraday profit needs to be added to your other income and tax paid as per the tax slab. You can carry forward short term losses to next year.
ITR3
Can audit be done without CA ?…How much CA charge for Audit ?
Not possible without a CA. Anywhere upwards of 5k to 20k.
Sir,
I got loss of Rs. 122027.53 in F.Y. 17-18 in commodity. Now i am showing business income in my return. so, i want to know business code of commodity trading.
2. which ITR form /return should i submit?
Regards,
Vijay
1. Explained in the post above. 130010 – Financial Intermediation/Investment activities.
2. ITR3
Hi Nithin, Thank you for the whole thing, very helpful for a fresh starter.
I am not sure if I came across a scenario where an individual has no other salary income and all the income derived can be classified into Interest income, Dividend income, LTCG, STCG and non-speculative. What would be the best way to classify in such cases?
You have to use ITR3 and show all incomes under their respective heads.You will have nothing to show under salary.
Sir, Can you help me in replying some of my queries…
I have done intra day trading & delivery based trading in 2017-18 The total turnover is Rs. 75 Lac
a. (Turnover means Intraday trading Difference between sale & purchase value AND total value of sale Or purchase in case of delivery) . PL. confirm if this is OK
b. I have made a Loss of Rs. 75,000 during FY 2017-18
c. I dont have Salary income
d. I have interest income Rs. 390000 & after deducting 80C deduction of 150000 it comes to 240,000
e. what ITR form do I need to fill in case I dont want to take advantage of this loss in coming years.
f. Do my ITR required an audit by CA
g. Do I need to pay any taxes.
Thank you
Sanjay
1. a. Yes. If you are showing equity delivery as capital gain, you don’t have to consider that for turnover. Only intraday trades.
e. ITR3
f. yes
g. Since you have losses, no taxes on trading.
Sir,
I am receiving income from salary. In last financial year 17-18, i have loss of 35000 from commodity trading which Non speculative as its a futre trading (As per my understanding, but not sure). Above you have mentioned that I can’t claim this loss against my salary. Now Can I carry forward this loss of 35000 for next year and offset with my next year profit of same category?
Thanks,
Bala
Yes, non-speculative. You can carry it forward.
Do i need to pay 15% short term gains on selling of shares (delivery based) if my profits was 30,000 only and i have no other income from salary or rent. And thus fall below 2.5 lakh bracket ?
No, you don’t have to pay any tax.
sir, recently I added the f&0 segment to my account and usually trade 20 to 30 lot of currency futures per day and till now I get profit of 20000 but my transaction is showing 5 crores will I be taxed for my transaction amount or on my profit.
No, taxes is only on your profits. Do go through all the chapters in this module.
Sir, I do Cash & FnO trading. Can I fill ITR 4 for presumtive tax ? Pls Clarify.
No, ITR3.
Thank you very much sir, then what will be the Nature of Business and Code no?
You could maybe use this Code: 13010 – Financial intermediation/Investment activities. This seems be the closest category to investment/trading related activity.
It will be very helpful to me. Thank you sir.
Sir,
For FY2017-18, I had a profit of Rs.7.0 lakhs from F&O and short term term capital loss of (Rs. 180000). Can I offset this loss from F&O gain and show Rs. 5.2 lakhs as my net profit?
yes you can set of
If you show your short term capital loss as non-speculative business income, you can. Otherwise no.
Have a Loss last year of 8Lakhs and turnover in Tax P&L report of 56Lakhs .Salary income upwards of 40lakhs and all taxes and advance taxes paid in Form 16
1)For carrying forward losses i understand that a Tax audit is required as income is less than 8% of turnover…Is the tax audit required for Filing of returns or only when and if the taxman opens up my returns (All losses only from digital transactions and visible on Zerodha reports.
2) Presume i will file a ITR 4 before July 31st.
Thanks
1. Audit by CA required while filing the returns itself.
2. ITR3 is better. Do check the chapter on ITR forms.
For the year ending on 31 March 18,I have F&O turnover(i.e. sum of all positive & negative trades) of Rs 7,39,767 from zerodha. Besides Rs 29864 were charged as various charges like brokerage,STT, GST, stamp duty & other charges. Please let me know whether I am required to add these charges to the f&o turnover arrive at total turnover for income tax.
Thanking you
Yeah, you can add the charges to come at overall turnover.
Thanks for your reply. Is it mandatory to add the charges for calculating turnover or it can be done without adding the charges.
Thanking you
You can do without.
thanks a lot
Nithin sir, for FY 2017-18 i traded in F&O only and got profit 165000.I think no tax to be paid,as it is below 2.5lk.i have no any other income. Which ITR form i have to use to E-filing
ITR3
Hi I have a query if I am a regular trader and doing margin trading and have to pay interest on that margin trading can I assume that in my expenses and show net profit after deducting the same. Just For example I have paid interest as 2 Lakh and my profit is 3 Lakh should I show it as 1 Lakh profit or 3 Lakh profit.
Yes you can show this interest expense as business expense.
dear sir
for FY 2017-18 i made a profit of 80k on delivery (short term and long term) and a F&O loss of 53,000.
1. the net profit of two segment should be considered for taxation?
2.the brokerage will be reduced from net profit?
i am a salaried person 5.8lpa
hmm.. do go through the module, I have explained this in detail. No one line answer for this.
Hi Nithin,
I am a Zerodha client and fan of Varsity. i got a query on ITR form and does it needs to be verified by CA.
I have salary income and i have a loss of 2.5lakh in F&O, i am thinking to pay tax on salary and carry forward F&O loss. please help me with which ITR form to be used and how to make sure F&O loss is carried forward.
Thanks,
Sathish
and my turnover is 5.1 lakh
ITR3 and yeah best to use a CA for this.
Hi Nithin,
Hope you are doing great ! I have a doubt related to ITR. My elder brother has salary income above 10 lakhs and has made short term capital gain of about 3 lakhs and intraday profit in cash market of about 1 lakh. Can you please tell me that in this case, he is having salary income above 10 lakhs , short term capital gain and intraday profit. Which ITR is to be filed and how to show intraday trading profit ? can intraday profit be shown as income from other sources and taxed at 30% ?? Intraday is speculative business income … so is it necessary to show turnover also in intraday trading ?
Please clarify my doubt. Thanks in advance !!
ITR3. INtraday is speculative business income, but yeah it will be as per the tax slab your brother falls in. Yeah, gross receipts and gross sales you need to mention, sum of which essentially is the turnover.
Thanks Nithin … But I am also asking that can I just show that intraday profit as ‘ income from other sources ‘ and pay 30% tax on it, because if I do in this manner, I can file taxes on ITR2 which has salary , short term capital gain and income from other sources item. So in that case also I will end up paying same amount of tax and in ITR 3, the issue is that it also required the balance sheet to be filed and all ……
Please tell what are your thoughts on my doubt ?? ITR 3 is cumbersome whereas ITR 2 is easy to file ??
Thanks …
And yeah … the exact figures I got are turnover in intraday trading is 3.5 lakhs and net profit is 50 thousands. Can I also show this in 44AD ?? I am talking about only intraday trading in cash market. I am asking this because I have a doubt whether intraday income can be shown under 44AD or not … as intraday is speculative business income ….
So can intraday trading be shown in 44AD if turnover is 3.5 lakhs and net profit is 50 K ?? I will use no accounts maintained case then if it can be shown in 44AD ….
please clarify nithin …. it would be great help for me and my brother ….
Hmm.. I’d say use ITR3. IT isn’t too complex.
hmm.. ideally no, speculative business income shouldn’t be shown under that head. Do speak to a CA.
Hi Nithin,
I have done Intraday trading only once with a profit of Rs.300. Short term capital gain of Rs. 6000 with delivery based trading. My income from salary is 6 lpa.
1. Since intraday profit is very less, can I ignore this income and file ITR-2 instead of ITR-3 ?
2. Or shall I file ITR-2 and specify intraday income as “Income from other sources” ?
3. Will I land into trouble if I fail to declare negligible intraday income of Rs. 300?
1. Ideally no, but in your case maybe yes.
2. You could, but again ideally no.
3. You shouldn’t have any trouble. Make sure to pay taxes on this Rs 300.
Nitin, you’ve mentioned that we should keep the nature of our ITR same on the following years as well. Currently I am filing ITR3 due to Salary income + STCG + Speculative intraday income but from the subsequent year onward, I will not be indulge into any speculative intraday trades so I will be bound to file ITR2. Would that be a problem? It think this should be quite normal.
If you stop intraday trading, no problem if you go back to using ITR2.
Hi Nithin ,
I am Salaried Employee .I am having losses from Intraday and F and O trading i.e -6,948.30 ;-1,04,098.75 .
Which ITR need to be filled in this case ?(If it is ITR 3) Where to mention those details ?
ITR3, go through all the chapters of this module.
Hi Nithin ,
I am Salaried Employee .I am having losses from Intraday and F and O trading i.e -6,948.30 ;-1,04,098.75 .
Is Audit required in my case ? Which ITR need to be filled in this case ?(If it is ITR 3) Where to mention those details ?
ITR3, yeah audit needed if your total income over Rs 2.5lks. DO go through all the chapters.
Hi Nithin ,
My Taxable income is slightly above i.e 2.57 but i am getting rebate amount so no tax I am paying as of now .And my turnover is not more than 1 cr still I require Audit ?
Not mandatory.
HI Nithin ,
As i am having intraday losses and f/o losses .F/o losses can be shown against item no 53 of profit and loss stment ..
But whre i can show my intraday loss?? In which head of ITR ?? Please help..
If you are filing under presumptive income, you will not have to bifurcate between speculative and non-speculative.
Under “Taxation of trading/business income”
After calculating 1.85 lacs as tax, there is a line which says an additional income of 1,00,000. Where Rs.100,000 (Profits from F&O trading) + Rs.100,000 (Intraday equity trading), both is considered under STCG, which stands for 2,00,000
Could you please clarify my doubt on this ?
Thanks,
No 1lk extra as STCG. So total income of 13lks in that example.
Hey Nithin,
while I’m filling ITR 3…. I’m getting error “current year speculative business losses should not exceed that total speculative business loss set off”
I’m filling according to the samples you have provided….. Suggest me what should I do?
Tough to support this, best to consulat a CA.
Tough to support this, best to consult a CA.
did anyone found , how to address this error?
I had all my loss from options and i have put them on the profit and loss statatemetn on the debit side. but when i go to CFL validate. the same error message reflects.
“current year speculative business loss should not exceed that total speculative business loss set off.”
Hi Abhi…did you find the solution for your problem. Infact i’m getting the same error.
Did anyone find a solution to this? I am getting the same error.
hi nithin, i have started trading from last year april to till now, frankly just doing paper trading on real account, made around 2000 loss in intraday and 3400 profit in delivery trades. i have no other business or profession, i have till now not registered on itr website. do i need to file itr or can i continue trade without itr return fill. my net turnover is almost 40000 rupees.
It is not mandatory for you to file ITR as your income is less than 2.5lks. But it is advisable to file.
Dear Nithin,
I am salaried Employee and my company deduct tax every year but i am not filling ITR. Now this year I used intraday trading in F&O and having loss 5 lakh against 17 lakh turnover. Do I need fill ITR this time. Can I avoid ITR. is there any problem in future by income tax department becuase i don’t waste another 15-20 k in audit so i don’t want to fill ITR.
Hmmm.. the chances of getting a notice is high if you don’t declare your trading on ITR. Also why let go off the losses, you can carry it forward it and setoff anytime in the next 8 years.
Dear Nithin,
But in case of ITR, audit is required. My salaried income is 5lkh and loss is 5 lakh against 17 lkh turnover. is audit required?
if yes then how much fee is applicable for audit.
Yeah best to get audited, audit costs upwards of 7.5k to 10k.
i want to know if my sole income is from f&o and below the limit of 2.5 lekh and turnover is also below the 1 cror do i have to file income tax return
Not mandatory, but advisable.
Dear Nithin,
I filed ITR3 for the first time due to F&O and intraday trading this year (the only business income). On a 38L turnover, I have shown 6.01% profit i.e. 2.3L Hence no audit was required. But I have got a message from IT department saying –
Income from “Profits and Gains from Business or Profession” is greater than 1.2 lakhs but particulars as in “Balance sheet/Profit &. Loss Account” are not filled
I have filled “Profit and Loss” sheet in ITR3, item 53 – No account case – with the gross receipts and profits. As per this error since the income if more than 1.2L , Balance sheet should have been filled or the Profit and loss where account book is maintained.
Please advise on what should be done. Do I have to go for audit?
Regards,
S.Gupta
Hi S. Gupta ,
I am having losses in Intraday ; F/O and I am salaried employee .In which Head I need to specify the Intraday Loss and F/O Loss ?Can you please help ?
From this year you have to fill balance sheet as it has been mandatory.
My Salary Income is 282000
Intra Day Gain is 38000
Other Business Loss from Share Trading is (104000).
Whether is it required to Tax Audit??
Best to get it done.
My STCG is Rs. 16920.
While filling the ITR-2, there is a requirement of quaterly details of stcg, please tell me where I can get that. In tax p&l I got my annual STCG only, I want its breakup into quaterly gain. If I use simple p&l then it also includes intraday profit which i didn’t want.
Thanks in advance.
Currently our report doesn’t have quarterly, you will have to do this on your own. The new reporting tool will have this.
Dear Sir,
1) I have f&o income of Rs-35000/- & STCG 20000/- no other income. which ITR form use & what is business code?
2) F&o income Rs-45000/-, STCG Rs-5000/- & LTCG-35000/- for this which form has to use & what is business code?
Advance thanks your replay
1. ITR3 and business income code https://tradingqna.com/t/business-code-for-f-o-traders-for-itr-4-filling/39606
2. Same as above
There is interest income from FD: 130384
Short Term capital gain (delivery based trades)=179699
So total Income 130384 + 179699 =310083
My question is will I have to pay flat 15% on 179699 or Tax will be on total income 310083
Can I deduct brokerage, SEBI Chareges, Stamp Duty etc from STCG
Hi Nithin ,
I am salaried employee ,My Taxable income is around 2.62 so no need to pay tax for that ,As I am getting tax rebate.
I am having losses from Intraday and F/o ,Do I need to maintain Balance Sheet ? My turnover is around 1700000 for F/O and 15000 for intraday .Can you please help on this ?
Balance Sheet only can be created with the help of CA ? Can we create our Balance sheet by own ?
Thanks in advance ..
No need of audit (but advisable). You can create your own balance sheet.
I have Short term capital gain of Rs. 5000, Intraday income of Rs. 400, Salary of 7 lpa.
1. Which ITR should I file?
2. Can I file ITR-1 and specify STCG (Rs.5000) and Intraday (Rs.400) as “Income from other sources?” .
3. Will I land into trouble doing this? Any chances of getting notice?
4. Can I file ITR-2 and mention Rs. 400 (Intraday) as “Income from other sources”?
5. Is audit required?
6. Since ITR-1 is easy and I can do it myself, but ITR-3 is too complex to file and need a CA who is charging upto Rs. 3000 and its not ideal for me to give away my entire profit itself as CA consultation charges. Please suggest me exactly which ITR should I file?
1. ITR 3 ideally, but since you have so little intraday, maybe ITR2
2. No
3. hmm.. can’t comment
4. Ideally no, but since turnover is so less, maybe.
5. No
6. You can use ITR2.
Hi nitin,…
Im a home maker.. and I have done a lot of intraday trading.. n I do not have any other source of income… I have made losses of upto 2.5lakhs.
Do I have to get an audit done,
Do I have to file my income tax return
Since you have no other income, no need of audit. But do file your ITR.
Thank you nitin.. which itr form do I need to submit
Hi Nithin,
I am trading using my mother’s account and have short term gains of 4 lakh rupees.How much will be my mother’s tax liability?
Thanks,
Ankur Jain
Can you go through the module.
Hi Nithin Sir,
My loss in F & O trading is around 55000
And total taxable income from salary and interest is below 2,50,000 can I carry for word the loss by using option without maintaining books of account in P&L and B/S or I have to use option maintaining books of accounts.
You should be able to carry forward the loss without audit.
Hello Nithin,
Which ITR to be used ? for following purpose :- (FY 2017-2018)
Salary = 15 lakhs
Short Term capital gain = 3 lakhs
Intraday Profit = 50000 (Turnover of intraday trading= 3.5 lakhs)
Long Term capital gain = 5 lakhs
Please guide sir .. Thanks in advance
ITR3
Hi nithin,
I got it … that ITR 3 is to be used since intraday is speculative business income. Some of CAs say that I should include this intraday profit in capital gain and file ITR …. what do you have to say about it ? Can i double the amount of intraday profit and add it to short term capital gain .. so that my tax liability will come as much as it should come …. like if 1000 is STCG … and 100 is intraday profit and tax on intraday as per slab is 30%. so should is put my STCG as 1200 ?? so that tax liablity in both cases remain same …. this is what is recommended by some CAs ….
What do you have to say about it ?
I know some CA’s do it this way, but this isn’t the right way.
Hello,
For Financial year 2017-18, following are the income details of a NON Resident;
1. Salary from/in India – NIL
2. Income from bank accounts – Interest on Savings account – 18,000
3. Related to Zerodha Trading account ;
Intra-day / Speculative profit 1033.95
Intra-day / Speculative turnover 3520.95
Short-term profit 15055.35
Short-term turnover 121592.00
Long-term profit 0.00
Long-term turnover 0.00
Which ITR should be filed ? Pleas guide and Thanks in advance.
Ideally ITR3, but since intraday is so little, maybe you can use ITR2 itself.
Hii sir
I’m student having no other income but savings account interest of 2k.
Incurred short-term capital loss of 64k,
Speculative profit of 21k.
Intra day turnover 75 k,
Delivery based turnover 30 lakh.
1)which itr form should I file to carry forward loss?
2) should I show my bank balance in balance sheet?
Thanking in advance
1. ITR3
2. Yeah.
I have salary income (6 lakhs) and STCG (Rs. 20,000) from shares.
1. Which ITR should I file?
2. Is audit required?
3. When actually is audit is required?
1. ITR2
2. No
3. Only if you are trading futures and options or intraday trading.
I am salaried employee. I do not have any other source of income.so no source of speculative/non speculative income excpet loss of around 1.5lakh in intraday only..no other loss/ gain from trading/ investing.Can i carry forward my loss in next 4 FY??
Yes.
sir,
i have purchased 1000 shares @ 120 rupees of an unlisited company in an off market transaction, some 5 years back,. now that i have sold 500 shares @ 600 rupee in an off market transaction during last financial year, as the company is still unlisted. i don’t have any other source of income. so thereby i want know the profit (240000) which i made by selling 500 shares is taxable for an off market transaction as no stt was paid. do i have to pay 30% tax for this as its off market.
and secondly by income is this only (240000), so whether am i taxable or not, as my income is below taxable limit.
please answer
thanking you
It’s a long term asset as you are holding for more than 3 years. The rate application for LTCG is 20%. You can get the benefit of indexation.
Are Intraday trading supposed to STCG @ 10 % or 20 %? Further what about indexation? does it happen all our gain are eaten by Taxes?
INtraday is speculative business income, so as per the IT slab you fall in.
I am a salaried person with a taxable income of around 8 lacs per annum .
I have booked a loss of around 3 lacs in Share trading(Intraday/BTST/Delivery) in FY 2017/18.
I never used to report any losses incurred in share trading while filing tax returns.
Should i report this in Income tax filing. I already submitted ITR-1 form for this financial year.
Will i get any tax refund filing the loss ? Sorry, if this is already answered in any of the previous post.
I have never done any tax audit for my losses before.
You will have to file your returns and show this loss. You can revise your returns. You wont’get any refund as these can’t be setoff against salary. Do go through all chapters.
1.I have net loss of 2.9 lac in FnO in F.Y. 2017-18 & Turnover is around 12 Lac
2.In F.Y.2016-17 I filled ITR-4 SUGAM (presumptive income under 44AD) inspite of Losses in year 2016-17.
Now I want to carry forward losses. Which ITR I have to use for F.Y.2017-18 & Whether CA audit will required or not?
Based on what I have learned from varsity zerodha – If turnover is less than 2 crore and profit earned is less than 6% and if net income is taxable then audit will be required. If net income is not taxable than audit will not be required.
But don’t take my explanation. Wait from someone qualified from zerodha to answer. I have mentioned what i learned thus far 🙂
ITR3 and yeah you will need an audit.
I have a problem with CALCULATIONS on this module,Can anyone help me?
In the CALCULATIONS done in module 5.2
since total income is firstly total taxable income seems to be wrong.Even if we correct it to 1,200,000 then also I could not understand the rationale behind 1,85,000 tax.
Please explain on what basis 10% comes out to be 25,000
20% comes out to be 100,000
and 30% comes out to be 60,000.
Nitin,
In terms of expenses that can be claimed. Suppose there is a telephone in house on the name of my father. And if I pay few bills of it. Can I claim expenses for it. And if yes, for whole bills or only for the bills that are debited from my saving accounts.
You technically can show this entire thing as an expense. Do speak to a CA.
hii nithin ,
i am trading in name of my mother’s account. she is housewife. she has no income. below are stats.
INTRADAY GROSS PROFIT :- 17,173.90
INTRADAY TURNOVER :- 1.92.425.50
SHORT TERM GROSS PROFIT :- 1652.45
SHORT TERM TURNOVER :- 1,14,363.95
LONG TERM GROSS PROFIT :- NA
LONG TERM TURNOVER :- NA
TOTAL CHARGES :- 39.869.78
FUTURE GROSS PROFIT :- -16228.0
OPTION GROSS PROFIT :- -2091.25
TOTAL GROSS PROFIT :- -18.319.25
FUTURE TURNOVER :- 46086.00
OPTION TURNOVER :- 33623.75
TOTAL TURNOVER :- 79,709.75
TOTAL CHARGES :- 11,867.35
BELOW ARE MY QUESTIONS , PLEASE REPLY
1. DO I NEED TO FEEL ITR , BCOZ OVERALL INCOME IS BELOW 2.5 LAC ??
2. IS IT MANDATORY TO FILL ITR EVEN IF INCOME IS BELOW 2.5 LAC AND HAVING F&O LOSS ??
3. IF IT IS COMPULSORY THEN WHICH ITR FORM ?? I HAVE OPEN DEMATE ACCOUNT THIS YEAR ONLY AND HAVE NOT FILLED ITR BEFORE FOR MY MOTHER BCOZ SHE HAS NO INCOME.
4. IF ITR IS COMPULSARY , DO AUDIT REQUIERED ??
5. IF ITR IS NOT MANDATORY AND IF I WOULD NOT FILL THEN IS THERE ANY CHANCES OF INCOME TAX NOTICE ??
1. Not mandatory, but best to fill.
2. same as above.
3/4/5. ITR3, no audit in this case. And yeah there is a chance of notice if not filled.
well explained and very good work done
I am an option trader and also received commission from a institute of Rs. 18,000 per month (aprox) . My yearly income from option trading is Rs. 1 lakh. How much tax I have to paid?
Add all your income and pay tax on overall income.
As per section 207, a resident Senior Citizen (i.e., an individual of the age of 60 years or above) not having any income from business or profession is not liable to pay advance tax.
I believe Delivery Trading where actual delivery is taken and sold let’s say within 1 year then resulting profit is not termed as ‘Income from Business’. Only Speculative Transaction, defined as purchase/Sale of shares settled otherwise than by actual delivery, is termed as Income from Business.
My question is will any profits I earn from Delivery Trading be considered by the ITO as ‘Income from Business’ and therefore I be liable to pay Advance Tax?
No delivery based trading is more capital gains. But if you do this investment business extremely actively and primary source of income, there is a chance that ITO might say this is like business.
Hello Sir,
My wife has trrading account in her name and she is housewife, but the investement in shares are very less as she is just opened the account and start investing in very small amount and 1 or 3 times sell some stocks having loss of 100rupees and 7 rupees profit respectively.
My question is she mandatory to file ITR 2 as she is not salaried as well as she not make so much profit above 2.5L.
Kindly clarify.
Not mandatory, but good habit to file ITR.
Hi,
I have salary income of Rs. 45 lacs, Long Term Capital Gains of Rs. 5 lacs (all realized before 31st January 2018), Short terms capital gains of Rs. 3 lacs, Interest income of Rs. 1 lac and losses on options trading of Rs. 60,000 (turnover around 2 lacs). Can I offset the losses on options trading against interest income or short term capital gains. Should I treat option trading income/ losses as business income/ losses or can I show them as Capital losses and adjust against short terms capital losses.
Losses of options against interest income is possible, not short term gains. Option trading is business income/loss.
Do I need to get tax audit done t set-off losses against interest income
No
Hello Nithin
I have a similar query. I have STCG Rs 46k and F&O losses Rs 50k in same FY 17-18. I am a salaried person, so as per my understanding of 5.3 – Carry forward business loss it says and I quote “Non-speculative losses can be set-off against any other business income except salary income the same year. So they can be set-off against bank interest income, rental income, capital gains, but only in the same year.” So can I not offset these losses against Short Term Capital Gains? Thanks. Request clarity.
Hello Nithin
I have faced loss of 78000 in intraday trading if I file income tax return I have to get audit done what is I don’t file ITR this year as my total income is less than 2.5 lakh
Thanks in advance
Hoping for your guidance
Best to file ITR. You don’t need audit if total income less than 2.5lks.
Sir as my income is less than 2.5 lakhs I don’t have to get audit are you sure about it sir
That is the understanding, but best to consult a CA.
Hi Nitin,
My F&O turnover is between 1 and 2 crore and total income is less than exemption limit, can i avoid Audit and carry forward losses ?
FIrst can u check on turnover chapter to see how much is ur real turnover.
Sir,for fy2017-18 I traded in futures only.i got 112000 profit after removing all charges. I do not pay any tax as it is below 2.5k.no other income . Which itr to file ay2018 -19
ITR3
Hi nithin,
Can you explain me the basic process of collateral margin. Suppose exchange requires 1 lakh of margin for a position created by broker’s client. Now if that client gives shares as collateral, but no cash (ONLY SHARES AS COLLATERAL MARGIN), then how broker arranges funds to give 1 lakh to exchange ? This doubt i and my friends have who want to start trading in zerodha.
Thank you
Towards the end of a financial year you might have realized profits and unrealized losses. If you let it be, you will end up paying taxes on realized profits, and carrying forward your unrealized losses to next year. This would mean a higher tax outgo immediately, and hence any interest that you could have earned on that capital which goes away as taxes.
You can very easily postpone this tax outgo by booking the unrealized loss, and immediately getting back on the same trade. By booking the loss, the tax liability for the financial year would reduce.
So my questions is what will be the tax treatment , if unrealized loss incurred in next year instead of same year.
Dear Braj,
Unless the profit/loss is realized it is not considered as income.
If you carry forward your unrealized losses than you have to pay higher taxes in the current year and less tax in next (assuming the same unrealized losses is realized in next year as losses.).
So its a kind of tax planning to maintain a consistent tax outgo in both the years.
Hi nitin
1. I m salaried and want to do only delivery based share trading, will i be treated as investor or trader?
2. Can i do btst as investor?
3. Can intraday trading done by me on margin basis
1. If you do only delivery, you can consider yourself investor.
2. Yes
3. Intraday will be considered speculative business.
if i have profit of Rs.1500000 in intraday trading of shares and loss of Rs.300000 in delivery based short term, what will be my tax liability,will this loss of 300000 be offset from 1500000 profit of intraday trading
No they won’t offset. Do go through all the chapters.
I have a F&O loss of 7 LAC in previous year and in current year in have profit of 2 lac in F&O 7 lac in STCG THAT IS DEVELIERY BEASED EQUITY PROFIT.SO MY F&O of previous year can be set off against current year F&O profit and STCG THAT IS DELEVERY BASED EQUITY PROFIT PLEAS GUIDE ME.
If you have filed your returns on time last year and carried forward, yes you can set off that loss to your equity gains this year. But to do that you will have to show your capital gains as a business income. Do read all the chapters.
For that I have to do audit of my account this year to adjust F&O loss of previous year which i carry forward as business loss now to adjust it whit stcg in current year.please guide me.thank you.
This year income has to be shown as non-speculative business income for you to be able to setoff. Can u go through the above chapter.
I have a loss of -195000 from Options and profit of 51000 from short term trading. Am also a salaried person paying income tax.
1. what is the Nature of Business for FY-2017-18 for trading?
2. Which ITR shall i file? ITR3/ITR4?
3. is there any detailed link which i can follow and file myself the ITR?
1. Can u check this.
2. ITR3
3. No, extremely tough to support filling of ITR forms.
Hello Nithin
I have STCG Rs 46k and F&O losses Rs 50k in same FY 17-18. I am a salaried person, so as per my understanding of 5.3 – Carry forward business loss it says and I quote “Non-speculative losses can be set-off against any other business income except salary income the same year. So they can be set-off against bank interest income, rental income, capital gains, but only in the same year.” So can I not offset these losses against Short Term Capital Gains? Thanks. Request clarity.
¶
Reply
Yes, you can offset business loss with capital gains in the same year.
I traded options and incurred loss of Rs. 12,000. My total income is less than Rs. 2,50,000 . Will I need an audit or need to file tax return?
Not needed.
Hi Nithin,
I have short term share income of equity and mutual fund and intra trade loss. I have following questions to know how to report and tax the income in the return.
1. Should I require to use the form ITR 3? Or ITR form 2 is fine since there is loss in intra day
2. If ITR form 2 can be used, can I club intra day loss with short term gain for reporting.
3. I am becoming non resident during FY 2017-18. Where should I report the stock income in capital gain tab of ITR form. I have both share income of equity and mutual fund listed in and outside stock exchange
Thanks for your help in advance for answering my above questions
1. Yeah ITR3
2. No
3. Can you go through all the chapters in this module has been explained.
If I have done intra day trading . My trading loss is about 1 lac (net) . so it will treat a loss. or i I have to pay tax on aggregation of total i.e. 6% turnover on 5 lac (which come aggregation of positive and negative balance)
If you have a loss, there is not tax to pay. Tax is always on profits.
Hi Nithin,
My CA has been telling that i need to get tax audit done in order to show the losses & its better not to declare anything.
however, after reading the chapters here, i think otherwise.
I got the turn over / P-L straight from Zerodha and had to slog for my old Reliance trading account to finally get the numbers.
I have done some short term delivery but holding period has not been long (1-2 months at max) so i have taken them as non-speculative.
++
If you are buying and selling stocks frequently (yes it is an open statement, but there is no rule which quantifies ‘frequent’) for shorter terms, it is best to declare that as non-speculative business income instead of STCG.
++
Finally I get 99k loss in Non Speculative (F&O + frequent delivery) & 3k loss on Speculative.
I have total turn-over of 15.5 Lakh and 1.02 L loss finally which makes it 7% Loss so do I still need the tax audit to show it on my ITR.
Appreciate your guidance in order to sort out same before the deadline :p
TO carry forward the loss, you will need that audit.
Hi Nithin,
Thanks for taking out your time and responding 🙂
so the other question then, do i show my trading activity at all in my ITR or just skip it ?
As my CA asked me to skip but never know when i get a notice for the trading even when i made losses only.
Regards
Yes, best to show your losses. If your taxable income is less than 2.5lks, no need of audit.
Hi Nithin,
I am a salaried professional and i also have been been trading in options. I have sustained a loss of about Rs.2,40,000/- for the financial year 2017-18 in option trading. I would like to know if i can use this loss to offset my other business income (profit of about about Rs.1,60,000/-)?
Thank you.
Regards,
Sufyan
Hi Nithin,
My Total annual sallary income is less than 2.5 lacs, but I have generated huge turnover of approx 10 crores
From intraday trading only and ended up with loss of 51 thousands from my pocket.
As I am not in tax slab do I need audit, as I consulted with a CA and he is asking for RS 25000 as fees.
So do I need audit if I want to carry forward my losses, or should I not show my intraday losses in filing itr.
Kindly suggest.
To be more specific nithin, I have used super multiple strategy offered by my broker kotak securities, which gives me 50 times margin on intraday trading on specific companies, thats why my square off turnover is so huge, but as i can see in the next chapter “Turnover, Balance Sheet, and P&L” its mentioned that for intraday trading turnover is “absolute sum of settlement profits and losses per scrip”
and the sum of all my loss( removing negative sign) and gain settlement scrip wise for every traded day comes out to be approx 3.5 lacs. So Please tell, what is my turnover, 10 crores or 3.5 lacs. Also Suggest which ITR form to be filed, ITR3 or 4.
Hi raj kumar,
I was also in similar sitaruion and given two options by CA one one is he will file the turnover 7Cr in ITR2 (equity) and show loss but incase IT notice comes he said he is not liable or else he will File in ITR3 for 7Cr amd he will charge 40k as fees and for non maintenance of books you will be charged 1.5 percent as fine by IT dept on turnover,now the point here is do you mean contract turnover?if contract turnover is 10 cr then that is not the actual turnover as per what zerodha says to know you exact turnover you can logon to q.zerodha and go to reports >tax p&l and below you can find download your turnover sheet whwre you can find exact tradewise turnover,even my CA thought those crores are what our business is without knowing that we are fighring for peanuts,his also associate shocked seeing the figures in crores,they are not aware of this business mechanism.
Nithin ji correct me if im wrong
Hi Vijay,
Thanks for your response, actually my broker is kotak Mahindra and not zerodha.
Let me illustrate this with one following trade example.
I get 50 times exposure by super multiple to specific companies, let’s say Infosys.
I have 10k cash, I applied supermultiple option and purchased shares of worth ruppess 5 lac and after couple of hours I sold them at 4.95 lacs at a loss of 5k in single trade.
So as per squreoff trade ,turnover is 9.95 lac (5+4.95).
But as per zerodha it should be only the “absolute sum of settlement profits and losses per scrip” so in this case turnover should be only 5 k which is my loss.
And I have executed similar so many trades that overall volume is so huge.
My CA wanted to show these in short term loss, but these are intraday , probably he is not aware of this mechanism or he is trying to make money out of it.
Please suggest how should I go ahead in filing itr as tommorow is the last day.
What my CA said was first to file the return before due date in ITR2 first to avoid penalty of 5000 then after due date you can modify.did you check with kotak what did they say about the turnover?
Best to show intraday, you dont’ need audit. You can also carry forward the loss without an audit if turnover is just 10lks.
3.5lks and ITR3
Nithin ji,you said Best to show intraday, you dont’ need audit. You can also carry forward the loss without an audit if turnover is just 10lks.
Is this reply to me?if yes did you mean ITR 2 or ITR3 my trades were intraday commodity.
ITR3
sir,u said stt brokerage can be shown as expenses, but on gross profit or net profit ?,suppose my net profit in f&o is 5 lakhs telephone and internet and rent charges are 50000 my stt ,brokerage ,sebi charges are 2 lakhs so now what is my tax liability either 450000 or 250000 ?
2.5lks
in cosole backoffice my total gross profit upto now in f&o showing 628000 and totalcharges showing 296000 according to your above answer now my tax liability is 36000 right ??
3.32lks is your net income. First 2.5lks no tax. ON the nex 82k at 5%. So around Rs 4000.
THANK U VERY MUCH SIR IM SO EXCITED REPLY FROM U UNBELIEVEABLE………
Sir
From the taxation chapters i see that non speculative losses can be carry forwarded for 8 years, and can be offset against any business income the same year or when carry forwarded the same year
SO my question is :
if my non speculative loss is 50k this year and my business income(OR speculative/non speculative profit ) for next financial year is 30k, so i can offset that profit as i carry forwarded this years 50k loss. But what about the rest 20k loss (can it again be carry forwarded to next year ) ??
Yes, you can carry forward the remaining.
Thanks Nitin for your response
Hence as i understand , i can carry forward the residual losses after offsetting with profit in that years to subsequent years
till 8 years. Till i offset the entire amount . Right ?
Yes
Sir i have loss in mcx trading turnover 3 lac can i show profit on turnover 8% above to file income tax return without audit u/s 44AD
Yes
Dear Sir,
Really good content and very helpful, but can you please clarify my doubt mentioned in below example:
Example: I have salary of Rs. 400000/- yearly and Investment of Rs. 100000/- under shares (delivery trade),
Now I get trade lime of Rs. 500000/- for day trading and with day trading my turn over is 1 crore with profit of Rs. 20000/- only, so how will the tax be computed ? on turn over of day trade or on the profit amount only?
Only on the profit amount. You need to add it to the salary and pay tax as per your IT slab.
Nithin ji,
I saw that in cleartax it was mentioned that when someone take futures delivery trade then the sale value becomes the turnover and for intraday trade only the tradewise turnover is that correct?
Exchanges have now introduced physically settled F&O contracts. So if you do decide to take delivery of the underlying stock of the futures, it has to be considered as a delivery trade. If you are showing your delivery trade as business, then yeah you have to take it for turnover calculation.
नीतिनजी
में खेती करता हु में 2011 से शेयर मार्केट में ट्रेडिंग कर रहा हु intrada में (delivery tred nhi kiya)
मुझे हर साल loss होता है जो लगभग 10-12 लाख है मेने अभी तक itr फ़ाइल नही किया,अभी मुझे income tax से नोटिस आया है धारा 148 से
10-12 lakh total loss he 8 years ka,2012-13कर निर्धारण वर्ष का 148 के तहत बकाया का नोटिस है
You have to reply saying you didn’t file ITR because there was no income to declare.
ZERODHA team why TAX lost harvest & whole QUANTS /Q section is no longer available intp back office.
Will show up again on console.zerodha.com – our new reporting platform in the next few months.
I have 10 lac income of intraday trading in shares and future and options.
Should I have to pay advance tax??
Yes
I am active trader in derivatives .Would you advice me to register an private company for trading. Will it be advantageous to me.Also will i be able to open two accounts in zerodh one personal and one in companies name.
I mean you can open two accounts. I dont’ really see an advantage of doing this though.
hii nithin ,
i have understood how taxation for trading and investment works in India but I had a question, if i trade united states stock market, will I have to pay India tax or us government tax according to their country?
Check this link. No tax in US if you are investing as a US-non resident. But you have to pay taxes in India as per your tax slab.
I am active trader in intraday in cash and future and options.
Currently I have profit of Approximately 10 lac in this financial year but I have daily plus and minus of Approximately 25000 to 50000.
So profit can convert to loss and vice versa.
Now if I have to pay advance tax how should I pay and calculate income as it is very flcutating.
Plz advice
Yeah best to pay atleast on what you have earned. If you end up paying extra, you can claim a refund.
Can you please clarify the below points:
1) I have received the trading statement from Zerodha, I have am seeing there is “Open Sell Position” towards Sell side and amount of
Rs 139235/- has been shown in P&L – whether this amount is taxable or not?
2) Whether in ITR i need to disclose the Notional Loss / Gain on holding of shares.
3) I am having F&O loss of Rs 25k for which I need to go for audit.
Thanks in advance
1. Didn’t get what you asked for
2. No, only realized is enough.
3. DO go through all the chapters.
Hi all,
i have day trading loss of about 28000 in FY 18 and some other income of about 350000. Day trading transactions makes about 90% of total transactions of my bank a/c. Can i skip to show my day trading loss in ITR, if i do not want to carry forward it ?
Best to declare the loss.
Then audit has to be done ??
Yeah best to considering you are trading quite a bit.
One more question i have.
What will be the turnover calculation in case of BTST trade if i show them as business income?
Is just the sell value OR sell value multiplied by percentage of margin paid OR profit and loss from that trade ?
Just the sell value.
hi Nithin,
Suppose I have no source of income.
And I take 10 lakh rupees from my father and I invest that in a company’s bond giving 10% interest annually (i.e 1 lakh rupees). Now who is accountable for taxation on that amount if it applies at all? (Me or my father).
You
sir
this year(2017-18) my intraday loss is 3000/-
2-short term profit is 700/-
3-total charges in equity is 3000/-
in f/o
1-future gross loss is 600/-
2-option gross profit is 550/-
3-total loss is 50/–
4- total charges is 450/-
Sir I want to know that whether f/o loss of 50 +450(charges) totalling 500 can be reduced from short term profit.
Since it is so less, I guess you can.
Hey. I will be filing for short term capital gain. I have downloaded Tax P&L statement from Zerodha. Can I deduct STT, Brokerage, Stamp Duty, Exchange charges, and all other taxes from my Short Term Capital Gains ? If yes, then what all things can I deduct from my profit ?
You can deduct everything that is a cost to you.
i have business income from other than shares.
I want to show F &0 loss and not carry forward the same next year so can you please confirm it will be appropriate to show in short term capital loss with other equity delivery stcg/stcl
No hue and cary from IT department over audit etc will then be tenable
F&O can’t be shown as short term capital loss. Has to be shown as business loss.
If not shown in business but in capital gain and income below 2.5lac then is audit not reqd for f and o
F&O can’t be shown under capital gains.
I do not have any income other than trading. I am trading in equity(both intraday and delivery) and in F&O also both intraday and positional. And my turnover will be more than one crore.
How should I show my income as business or personal ?? for example if I earned more than 3.5 lakh (altogether short term Rs.50000,long termRs.45000,F&O-Rs.255000) then what will be the taxation.
Sir,
i worked in share market on intraday basis form last 5 years, i took personnel loan from bank and worked in share market but there is no profit only loss is there on all years, there is no other income source.
should i need to fill ITR is it mandatory for me or not ?
Yes, do file ITR, also declare the losses in time so you can carry forward these losses.
Sir I have occurred loss of ₹85000 in intraday (cash) and profit of ₹102000 in intraday (FNO) so my tax will be on FNO-cash or are they taxed seperately?
They are taxed separately – intraday equity is speculative business income, F&O is non-speculative business income.
The calculations given in the example are incorrect.Please correct them.
Hey Vijayaganesan! Can you kindly elaborate?
i have non speculative(F&O) and speculative(intraday equity) both business income.
do i have to file advance tax every quarter on both income?
Yes, ideally.
sir
if i have only speculative(intraday) income less than 70 k ,should i file advance tax .
as there is no TAX on speculative business income less than 2.5 L (AS PER TAX SLAB) .
If your total income is going to be below 2.5lks, no need.
Total income (salary + business) = Rs.1,000,000 (salary income) + Rs.100,000 (Profits from F&O trading) + Rs.100,000 (Intraday equity trading) = Rs 1,200,000/-
I now have to pay tax on Rs 12,000,000/- based on the tax slab
What does this mean ?
Tax for individual is as per slabs. First 2.5lks – no tax, 2.5 to 5lks @ 5%, so on. Check this chapter https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/basics/.
Hi
I have traded some options in Q2 2018 and Q3 2018. Is it right that I will pay taxes next year?
You have to pay advance taxes if you have booked profits.
sir ,
i am a beginner , don’t have contacts to ca.
i have few doubts :
1>what is the advantages and disadvantages of declaring frequent(short terms gains) as non speculative business income .
2 >if short term delivery is done frequently it is considered as non speculative business income .
so , what exactly this frequent means
eg : 4 days , 7 days , 15 days or 30 days
1. Carry forward for 8 years, set off other business gains with losses. Disadvantage is of having to use ITR3 which is more complicated than 2
2. There is no written definition. You have to decide and declare.
If I have made a profit of 1000000 in a year through speculative trading (business income) and paid 370000 as taxes and brokerage fees etc. than whether I have to pay tax on 630000 or less and if yes than another 30 percent (if somebody is already in the slab) on profit will reduce my gain further to 441000 means whatever I am gaining in a year around 60 percent i have to pay in brokerage, taxes etc. Am I right Sir?
Hmmm.. yeah. 🙂 Income tax is something everyone has to pay.
Hi Sir, Please could you let me know if the example in the tutorial correct? In particular I have a question on why the tax is calculated from slabs 2 and 3 also and then added up: Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.185,000/-
I am totally confused looking at the total amount. The total taxable income is 12 Lac and not 1 cr 20 lac correct?
————————–
Total income (salary + business) = Rs.1,000,000 (salary income) + Rs.100,000 (Profits from F&O trading) + Rs.100,000 (Intraday equity trading) = Rs 1,200,000/-
I now have to pay tax on Rs 12,000,000/- based on the tax slab –
0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 10% – Rs.25,000/-
500,000 – Rs.1,000,000 : 20% – Rs.100,000/-,
1,000,000 – 1,200,000: 30% – Rs.60,000/-
Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.185,000/-
Now, I also have an additional income of Rs.100,000/- classified under short term capital gains from deliver based equity. The tax rate on this is flat 15%.
STCG: Rs 100,000/-, so at 15%, tax liability is Rs.15,000/-
Total tax = Rs.185,000 + Rs.15,000 = Rs.200,000/-
Ah yeah, that was a typo, changing it to 12lks.
NAMASKARAM ,
SIR MY NET INCOME FROM TRADING IN F&O HAS MADE ME A PROFIT OF 23 LAKHS FROM AUGUST 10 2018 TO 10 DECEMBER 2018 SO I WANT TO ASK
1 SINCE MY SISTER HELPS ME IN TRADING CAN I GIVE HER SALARY OF 8 LAKHS FROM 23 LAKHS SINCE I HAVE A BUSINESS INCOME .I SHOULD TREAT HER AS EMPLOYEE AND TRANSFER MONEY FROM MY ACCOUNT TO HER. CAN I DO THAT
2 AND ALSO I HAVE A RENTED HOUSE FROM WHICH I TRADE WITH 50000 AS RENT SO CAN I SHOW THIS ALSO AS EXPENSE AND REDUCE MY TAXABLE INCOME
THANKING YOUR TEAM FOR GREAT EFFORT AND WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY SINCE ADVANCE TAX IS STILL NOT PAID BY ME ONLY PARTIALLY PAID
1. Yes
2. Yes
AGAIN THANKING U SIR AND WHOLE TEAM NAMASKARAM
Suppose, I have purchased some shares and sells them after 10 days and make a profit of Rs.5000. This way, my total income from trading becomes 1L in a year. Assume that I earn another Rs.1L from other sources. Now my income from Trading and Other sources becomes Rs.2L in a year which doesn’t come under the Income Tax Rule. Now, my question is, Shall I still have to file tax on Rs. 1L which I earned from the Stock Trading? Please reply….
No taxes on this. You have to pay tax only if your income falls in the slab. Assuming you are in the 2.5lks to 5lk slab, you don’t have to pay 15% of gain as taxes from investing, you just have to pay 5%. So it is 15% or your tax slab whichever is lower.
dear sir i want to know that i hve incometax scrutiny noitce by that in year my other bussiness income show by return no paid tax and no audit no show trading account
but b now noitce in say that i hve f&o loss 21 LAKH AND SHORT TERM LOSS-188000 AND SPECULATIVE INTRADAY PROFIT WAS -341000 SO OFFICER ASK ME TAX ON SPECULATIVE INCOME 341000 AMOUNT TO 50000 ATX +INTREST ABOUT 16000 TOTAL= 65600 TAX TO BY ME PAY TO INCOMETAX . GO TO PAID TAX IT NO ADJUST IN LOSS ON F&O AND SHORTTERM LOSS.SO PLS GUIDE ME. MY QUERY THAT I HVE LOSS-2100000 &-188000 = -2288000 +341000=1947000 TOTAL LOSS I HVE SO WHY PAY TAX?
You can setoff your speculative profit from F&O loss (not against short term loss). I guess you have to explain this to the officer. You can reach out to taxiq.in, they can help you draft a response.
Sir pls here I say two c. A. This matter but he say tax will be right. Officer give me tax order for tax liability. If I as I wish some help from you side that any c. A yours will me provide material and evidence for that I apil at income tax that I no liable pay tax on speculation income profit. So pls provide c. A reference.
If I don not withdraw amount from Zerodha in any financial year still i need to pay income tax? If money not earned from share trading and profit is there In Zerodha, still i need to calculate Income tax?
Profit is profit, even if you don’t withdraw it to your bank account. You need to pay taxes if you have any realized profit.
sir
what will be the changes in taxation ,after budget(5 LAKH )tax slab rule.
Sir
Please help me
Sir
Hello sir,
i am a beginner,
Please help me
I have traded some options (call& put) with select “delivery” instead on “intraday”.
It means i didn’t use any margin and pay full amount of share and after this trad showing in position. Ok
Sir my question is that , if we square off on same day or or next day or before it’s expires.
This type of trading considered as non speculative business income or short terms
capital gainss.
Please reply sir
Thanks
Rafi khan
Hello sir,
i am a beginner,
Please help me
I have traded some options (call& put) with select “delivery” instead on “intraday”.
It means i didn’t use any margin and pay full amount of share and after this trad showing in position. Ok
Sir my question is that , if we square off on same day or or next day or before it’s expires.
So,This type of “delivery” basis options (call&put) trading considered as non speculative business income or short terms
capital gainss.
Please reply sir
Thanks
Rafi khan
Nonspeculative business income – any future and options trade is considered this (intraday or overnight)
Thanks Nithin sir for valuable information
Hi.. had a F&O position (included in list of compulsory physical delivery by Sebi) which expired in the money..So I had to received the shares but the party defaulted even in the auction and I gained significantly as the transaction settled through Closeout.
So, how to do the tax treatment?
For being STCG, the delivery should have been received which was not in this case. The F&O in this case closes at 0 rate on expiry date (So, the F&O profit is upto the limit of premium).
Should it not be a capital Receipt (receipt like liquidated damages due to non-performance of contract) which is not taxable under income tax?
This is very similar to the short delivery trade – You buy but the person selling defaults so it gets settled in cash. I think the safest way to do this would be to show the closing price of underlying on expiry as settlement price and book your F&O profit/loss. From that settlement price to auction price, show it as STCG. It is common practice to show short delivered as STCG even though there wasn’t delivery. THe other option is to show this as speculative income, which will be the safest way to do this.
Hi,
Trading derivatives (f/o) is digital? For section 44AD, is that 8% or 6%? Above, it was mentioned that equity trading is 100% digital(6%). But no info about derivatives.
Thanks.
6% itself.
Many thanks.
Could you please let us know the Nature of Business for ITR-3. Last year it was mentioned 13010 – Financial intermediation/Investment activities. Is that the correct one..? I assume, they removed the old one last year and there were confusions on selecting the correct code.
Yeah that should be okay.
Hi,
Sir if my annual income by Salary is 2.0 lac and my intraday turnover is 10k till date and I have losses in intraday trading as I combined both (salary + trading ) and calculated my total income not exceeding tax limit of 2.5 lac. For FY 2018-19.
Need an audit or not? (because my profit is less than 6% of my turnover)
Not needed to audit.
sir
to claim business expenses ,what kind of (proof of various expenses ) are needed to be shown while filing ITR .
As long as you are paying through the bank account or credit card, that should be enough proof. It is also best to keep a copy of all bills/invoices.
Hi, Nitin
I am having turnover less than 1 crore
1) doing FNO ,
2) less delivery equity ,
3) intrday equty trading
4) Having pension of Rs. 4 lakhs in the financial year
5) Interest income Rs. 25,000
6) Declared as trader filling from last year ITR3, but turnover was negligible.
This year turnover is 25 lakhs till Feburary 2019 and losss is 30,000.
Whether I have to get my accounts audited as profit is less than 8%.
How much Charted Accountats charge for this audit or only profit and loss statement is sufficient
Regards
Yeah, CAs might charge upwards of 5k based on how much they have to audit.
I have only the source of income is F&O. I have loss of Rs 5 lakh from F&O for financial year 2017-18. So my net income is less then 2.5 Lakh. I neither want to carry forward loss nor want audit from CA.
a. Which ITR form should I file?
ITR3
sir
suppose a company ‘s promoters hold 67 % of company ‘s shares and (95 % of 65 are pledged) .
1> sir what operational changes (of company) can happen if all 95 % shares are sold in open mkt.
2>even after if company manages to maintain it profits is it necessary that share price will fall sharply.
3>at the time when new formation of % of ownerships in company ,will there be appointment of new board of directors and management .
thank you sir
1. The promoter will lose control.
2. Not necessarily. Depends on the situation – future prospects, etc.
3. Board of directors will remain the same until a new board has to be appointed. At which time, the new majority owners of the company will have a say.
In ITR 4
Where to show F and O turnover and how to show
Best take help of CA to fill the form.
Dear sir ,i invest in mutual fund (equity) in many top fund houses ,in different equity scheme since long time ,in jan 2019 i booked profit by switch out /in thease scheme ,again in may 2019 again i interchanged same scheme by switch in/out and booked some loss .how will be it taxed,does it comes in trading .
Warm Regards
What you sold in Jan would long term capital gain, what you did after will be short term capital loss. Can you check the chapter on investing.
Can FO trading loss be claimed as short term capital loss provided that we are not claiming the expenses incurred?
hmmm.. no.
sir
kite is designed beautifully .
but it does not respond half of the day ,support is unable to solve the issue (happening this since 1 year ).
sir kindly solve the issue.
thanking you
What exactly is the issue, Ashwani? Have you looked at our support portal, this should answer most of your concerns?
https://support.zerodha.com/
sir
most of the time when i log in i am unable to see any prices at mkt watch except sensex and nifty ,
and my chart did’nt update , login fialure as “no response from server” .
sir i had cheked this with different pc s and net connection s .
but these issues are not from user side .
Hi.. If I use itr4s for this year as I have some intraday losses and next year if I do not do any business then which for I have to use.? Itr4s or itr 1 as Ian salaried person.
And for presumptive turnover is salary is included
Salary is not included in presumptive turnover. You can switch to ITR1 when you get back to only salary.
Sir, its a wonderful platform for traders…… i thank you for creating such simple and effective platform…..
Well, my query is i am a currency intraday trader(usdinr mar for example) and my tax p and l shows these figures for 2018-2019
Futures turnover 82.98k
And total gross profit is 41.08k
My salary income is arnd 8.5lac pa
Can u let me know
1 is tax audit need to be done
2 what would be my tax liablity of trading
3 which form do i need to submit
Thanks and regards
1. No
2. Add profits to your salary and then pay. You’d be in the 20% bracket, so that much.
3. ITR3.
Sir,tax loss harvesting mail by zarodha to me.income tax automatically deduct in demat account before 31 march.or any other process to pay income tax.
You have to declare the income and pay taxes yourself while filing ITR.
Sir,it is a wonderful platform for new traders as i have learned from Zerodha & started from here.
I have loss around 70 K in FO & crude oil trading .My income around 6 lacs , tax deducted from my salary.
My question:When i will submit ITR, shall i show my losses & which form need to submit .
Please advise
Yes please show losses and on ITR3.
Sir my wife acquired 6lacs from her dad retirement and invested as trader from March 1 2019 and earned only 15k till March 31. No other income for her. What is the tax for 6 lacs and what form should be used .?
Gift from dad doesn’t have taxes. Use ITR3 and show the 15k as income. No taxes to be paid.
Sir, I have shares of some good companies, which I had purchased through IPO’s since long time. In dec 2018 I started in intra day trading through Zerodha platform.
I sold say 160 shares of Reliance ind, and subsequently I purchased same quantity of shares after one day and again sold some of them after some days. My questions are as follows:
1. Shall I consider my first transaction of sale of 160 shares as long term capital gain/ loss as the case may be.
2. Shall I consider my subsequent transaction of sale of shares as speculative income/ loss as the case may be.
Please advice in this matter.
Anil Kr chandhok
1. Yes
2. Yes
Hi sir,
I want to know, can we show following items as expenses against f&o income
1. Bills on clothing
2. Travel ( rail and air)- showing it as some part was to meet some people to discuss trade and understnad market
3. Fuel spend in credit card bills?
4. Restaurant bills – showing it as a spend to get some tips?
Thanks
1. Hmm.. no
2/3/4. As long as you can justify that it was business related.
Hi Nikhil,
I have a few questions regarding taxation mentioned below.
1. Can I show the purchase of my laptop, brokerage charges, mobile internet charges as expenses for trading? If yes, do we have to attach any proofs that the laptop and internet are strictly used for trading?
2. Can I show a part of my house rent as rental expenses for trading even though I am already getting an exemption on HRA against the entire house rent under section 10 of IT act?
3. Do we calculate total profit/loss for taxation after including all these expenses?
1. Yep you can show. Don’t think you’d need proof for these.
2. Yep possible.
3. Yes, net profit is after all expenses.
Do consult a CA.
hi,
my taxable income for FY 18-19
income from Salary : 900000
interest on housing loan : 250000
loss from Commodity trading : 100000 (Turnover of overall script is 10 crore) (its include gross loss+Brokerage+STT, GST, Stamp Charges)
please advice in ITR in which form i can file and also loss from commodity can be set off in the same year or need to carry forward.
Hi sir
Please update on my comment
ITR3. You will have to carry forward and set it off in the future.
I have closed my Demat account with IndusInd bank recently and transferred all the scrips into existing Zerodha Demat account. But in portfolio how to reflect the purchase date and price at which the transferred strips were bought originally.
Go to https://console.zerodha.com/portfolio/holdings, you will see holdings with discrepancy button, fill it up. Make sure to do it correctly.
Loss === rs 50000 turnover== rs 3 lakh income all sources== 2 lacs
do i need audit to c/f losses
I got a sms from nse that dear Pan no. your trade value for today is RS 8998. Whereas I have an available balance of Rs 120 and i have done intraday with margin 12.5.
So i want to know Will this amount 8998 include in my income tax file, i.e. do i need to pat tax for this amount or I have to pay the income tax only for the amount which i withdraw.
It is trade volume and not account value. So you might have traded value of Rs8998. You dont’ have to show that.
respected sir,
I left my job a year half and started trade for living and I only trade in options. so my query is,should i have to pay advance tax for non speculative business income as you mentioned in the blog ?
The issue is I do not even know whether i will fall under minimum income tax slab.
secondly,is it necessary to consult a CA for filling ITR and even for auditing purposes,can’t i do the same myself.
As i just started my trading journey, i am panicked a little bit about the taxman.
Lastly can you help me out how and where to find out a professional CA .
Regards
Debasish Mondal
Advance tax needs to be paid, yeah it is tough when you are trading to figure this. So pay only if you think you will exceed the minimum tax slab. Auditing will need CA, just filing taxes you can do as well.
thank you sir for your response.
people like you are always motivating
Suppose I am a salaried individual and I also do trading. When I am paying advance tax, do I pay tax including my monthly income since everything now qualifies business income? PS. TDS is already deducted by my employer.
Yes, you have to on combined income. Pay it separately.
Hi Please advice if audit is necessary for the following:
Income from Salary 6 lakhs
Trading turnover 5 lakhs
Trading loss 5000
here if I dont declare at 6% of 5 lakhs then is audit compulsory?
For that sake if my turnover is mere 1 lakh and I have incurred a loss, then is audit necessary?
Hmm.. technically it is required. But since turnover is less, maybe you can plan something. Best to speak to a CA.
Sir,
I read your comments for taxation is very good and detail.
(1) I am trader,I want to know that above 2coror turn over Audit is compulsory. but I don’t know that any date is required before filing
ITR-4/fix date for audit ? Please guide me.
(2) Give me Audit Book proforma /table with one or two example entries.
(3) I am not conduct/prepare any Audit Book , Is helpful trade wise DATA is provide by you in BACK OFFICE ? Please guide me.
Regards,
G TRIVEDI
1. Dates aren’t announced yet. Usually July 31st
2. The new ITR forms are not out yet, once it is, we will put a sample.
3. Yes the P&L, Ledger, and tradebook available on console.zerodha.com
Thank You for guidance.
I request you that give me AUDIT BOOK PERFOMA/Table with two or three example entries.
Regards
Good.Trivedi
Due to physical shares no longer valid, my father transferred his 530 shares of State Bank of India to my demat account through request to RTA and I have 530 shares of SBI credited to my demat account. Roughly, the value is 530*300=Rs159000. He had acquired these shares around 19 years back, the exact purchase price not known. How do I show this in my ITR3 return. Should i show this “income from other sources” or should I show this as “Exempt Income.” I read that any gift above 50000 in a FY is taxable, but this is from father to son, comes under relative category, is the full amount exempt? Kindly give your inputs
Sir, I am salaried person. In financial year 2018-19 I had a loss of around 1.5 lakh Rs. in intraday and F&O trading. But I don’t want to show it in my ITR filing. Then also is it necessary to get it audited?
It is best to show when filing your ITR. You might get a notice, if you don’t.
Hello sir, I am about to file my income tax. Regarding stocks CA is asking details like name of company, date of purchase, purchase price, date of sale, sale price, transfer expenses, security transaction tax paid in a single document, in a chronological order.
I have given following 6 documents
1. Trade book 2. Tax P & L 3. P & L 4.Ledger 5. Annual global statement 6. holding till 31 march 19.
But he is NOT convinced. He had asked me to search / inquire more. Where can I get the information. I have raised many tickets in zerodha support regarding this.
As per him, in income tax filing format above information required other wise it’s not possible to file the return. I don’t know how other zerodha clients are filing return.
One more thing, actually which documents need to given to CA regarding stocks. I am very confused and helpless. Please suggest. Thanks.
Everything is available within console.zerodha.com, ledger https://console.zerodha.com/funds/statement, https://console.zerodha.com/reports/taxpnl, https://console.zerodha.com/portfolio/holdings. This is more than enough to file ITR.
Thanks sir, usually which documents (reports) need to given to CA..
Ledger (fund account statement), tradebook, P&L
KINDLY REPLY, THANKS
Due to physical shares no longer valid, my father transferred his 530 shares of State Bank of India to my demat account through request to RTA and I have 530 shares of SBI credited to my demat account. Roughly, the value is 530*300=Rs159000. He had acquired these shares around 19 years back, the exact purchase price not known. How do I show this in my ITR3 return. Should i show this “income from other sources” or should I show this as “Exempt Income.” I read that any gift above 50000 in a FY is taxable, but this is from father to son, comes under relative category, is the full amount exempt? Kindly give your inputs
Father to son gift is exempt. You don’t have to pay any taxes on the gift. Btw the long term capital gain tax is 10% if above 1lk per year. So whenever you sell, you can consider the price of the stock as on Jan 31st 2018 as the cost to calculate the gain. Check this
https://support.zerodha.com/category/account-opening/getting-started/articles/how-does-the-new-long-term-capital-gain-tax-made-applicable-work
[…] आपकी शेयर मार्केट में ट्रेडिंग करने से इनकम होती है तो आपके द्वारा ITR […]
SIR,
I NEED YOUR HELP
FOR AUDIT , WHAT IS THE CALCULATION OF TRANSACTION IN COMMODITY FUTURE ?
PLEASE DESCRIBE WITH EXAMPLE
THANKS
Check out the chapter on turnover. It is exactly similar to equity F&O.
Sir, My salary under sec 17(1) is 593001/-
So income chargeable under head of salaries is : 509569/-
Turnover in options traidng is 316717/-
Profit in options trading is 207284/-
Total income : 716853/-
Since my profit is greater than basic exemption limit, do I need get audited ? or shall I submit the ITR form – 3 after filling details …
Pls hlep me with this . Thank you in advance.
Since your profit>8% of turnover, no need of audit. Use ITR3 to file returns.
Hi, If have an intraday loss of 40k and Short-term profit of 30k. I am under 10 lakh annual income slab. And I do not plan to do any speculative/intraday trading going forward. Hence no benefit to carry forward the loss. Can I get the tax rebate on 40k and pay tax on 30k? And do I need to fill ITR3 for this?
No, you can’t get tax rebate as intraday is considered speculative business income, cant be setoff against anything else. yeah, best to file ITR3 this year.
sir
i am a student ,i am trading/investing since 1 year in little qty.
for FY 18-19
Intraday profit= -267
short term profit =150
intraday turnover =488
total charges =631
other credits/debits=210
and few net and other expenses
sir as my P&l and turnover is tiny
1>should i file itr
2>as i dont have job so i guess it will be business income under ITR3
3>once STCG declared as non-speculative business income ,it is possible to change it to STCG in next FY
4>Is there any possiblity that i will be told to go for TAX AUDIT ,coz for such tiny amounts it will not be feasible to go for audit.
thankyou sir
1. Best to
2. Yes
3. Yes, but not too often. Best to declare it as STCG itself in this ITR if you intend to change
4. not really, everything of yours is so little in value. Maybe you should file the ITR yourself, will be good education.
I HAVE SPECULATION LOSS FROM INTRA DAY TRADING RS 14140 AND TURNOVER IS RS 20160 AND MY OTHER TOTAL TAXABLE INCOME FROM SALARY RS 230000
WILL AUDIT REQUIRED FOR THE LOSS OR I HAS TO SIMPLY FILE ITR3 BY SHOWING NO ACCOUNT CASE DETAILS
THANKYOU
Sir I have following questions if you can help with
1)Can we show short term income from MF as business income.
2)Can we switch between forms in different financial years.
3)Can we show LTCG and business income from the same trading account.
1. If it is the only income and you do it almost like a business, then yeah maybe.
2. yes, but not too often.
3. yes
Sir I traded in equity futures and earned 60k profit in 2018-19. I should pay tax to that 60k or not . As it is below 2,50,000
If your only income is 60k, no tax. But if you have other income, you have to add everything and pay as per the slab.
Hi Nithin,
Thanks a lot Nithin and team. You have answered every question of traders with correct & required information, I am surprised to see that.
Last financial year my Intraday and FnO loss(both loss) was around 60K and turnover 6.8 lks. As per my understanding from your comments and chapter —
If your net income for the year (trading + everything else) is less than 2.5lks and turnover below 2 crores you don’t have to pay any taxes, and hence no audit will be required. I have no other income for that year, so my income will be less than 2.5 lks.
1) No audit required for me right?
2) Need to submit ITR3 right? And can I do it myself without any help from CA.
3) Do I need to maintain books of accounts ? If required, how do I maintain books of account myself, it will be helpful if you provide some guidance.
4) Audit is required for business turnover of 1 crore or 2 crores ?
Thank you.
1. Yea
2. Yea
3. It is best to maintain. Tricky supporting filing queries online. You will have to figure this out. Check this sample ITR.
4. Rs 2 Crores mark – Turnover for the year crosses the Rs 2 crores. This is in case of digital transactions, and stock market trading is 100% digital. (Otherwise it is Rs 1 crore). Also Rs 2 Cr Limit for Not Audit is if you declare under 44AD (read below) only, else Audit is applicable for One Crore.
Can brokerage, clearing charges, exchange transaction charges, Integrated GST, SEBI turnover fee, securities transaction tax and stamp duty be shown as cost of trading? Please confirm.
Yes, if you are showing as business income.
The tax calculation is very old. Please update with latest slabs.
Hi ,
I am new to trading. Currently I work with a company but thinking to start intraday full time. What all should I know about taxation before starting intraday as full time. Can you please explain in layman terms.
Thanks
🙂 I have explained in this module, go through all the chapters. https://zerodha.com/varsity/module/markets-and-taxation/
Hi Nithin Sir,
I had taken a loan of Rs 1 Lac from my friend and deposited the same with the broker as margin money for placing the intra day orders. I am paying him 12% interest on this loan. Can i show this interest payment to my friend as permissible expense under speculative business income ?
Can i show interest payment to bank as permissible expense under speculative business income
Yes you can show this as expensive.
Hi Team,
I am salaried employee whose total income from 1st April 2018 to 31st May 2019 was 8,58,524. After deduction of rent paid to landlord it goes to 7,52,652.
Now I have done intra day trading with zerodha and following is the tax statement for this year.
Realized Profit Breakdown
Intra-day/Speculative profit : -18163.32
Short-term profit : -18226.93
Long-term profit 0.00
Total realized profit : -36390.25
Turnover Breakdown (Scripwise)
Intra-day/speculative turnover 49221.58
Other Debits/Credits including Service Tax
Total Charges 27545.35
Total Other Charges -428.23
Charges
Account Head Tax Amount
Brokerage – Z 8178.8337
Central GST – Z 0
Clearing Charges – Z 0.0197
Exchange Transaction Charges – Z 2740.0134
Integrated GST – Z 1965.396
SEBI Turnover Fees – Z 128.4908
Securities Transaction Tax – Z 12642
Stamp Duty – Z 1890.5921
State GST – Z 0
Please help me to know following things –
1. Do I required to have Audit.
2. Do I need to disclose all this intra day trading in ITR filling and which ITR form should i use ?
3. can i claim all stt, brokerage,service tax,turnover and other taxes.as expenses or cost.
4. Is there anything special that needs to be mentioned in ITR.
Thanks
1. Yea, best to.
2. Yes, ITR3
3. Yes
4. For ITR filing best to consult a CA.
My F&O and Option (Non- Speculative) trading turnover is less than one crore. And Earning is 8 lakhs. Is Audit required if ITR 4S is used.
Non in case of ITR4 (it is called ITR 4 and not 4S now).
1) Yes you need to carry out audit as your net taxable income is above 2.5 Lac and your income from speculative business is less than 6% of the speculative turnover.
2) Yes you need to disclose all intraday trading in your itr. You need to file ITR 3.
3) Yes you can claim all charges as expense for your speculative trades. If you show your short term trades as trading business then charges pertaining to that also can be claimed as expense.
My above comment #82295 is for User Gova
sir,
I am a SENIOR CITIZEN,
and INCOME TAX LIMIT OF RS 3,00,000 applies to me.
My last FIN year 2018-19 income is 2,55,000
( 250000 from short term trading, ( cash buying & selling in a few days with profit. )
+ 5000 from my other small technical consultancy business.
—————-
255000
MY Question is :-
My income is BELOW TAXABLE LIMIT….
so still DO I have to pay “”STCG “” TAX at 15 % on 2,50,000 ( which is quite HIGH @15 % on 250000 = Rs 37500 )
I File RETURNS on my own as “”BUSINESS INCOME “”
And show income as a profit made by SALE OF SECURITIES,with STT paid.
The EXPENSES INCURRED to CARRY ON THIS BUSINESS OF SHARE TRADING is
:- Rs 1,00,000 ( RENT,LIGHTING,INTERNET,CABLE TV,BUSINESS PAPERS +MAGAZINES,COMPUTER REPAIR,CONVEYANCE, PRINTING )
Hope you will offer sufficient CLARITY
THANKS
TUSHAR MODY
No, you would not need to pay the 15% STCG tax.
I have only bought shares of TATAMOTOR of 9,20,000/- in Nov-2018 but not sold anything in FY”2018-19.
So do I need to file ITR3 ? (because No sell = No gain)
No need. Btw, you can use ITR2 if only capital gains.
sir,
I am a salarised and I also do trading.
I have speculative turnover 1.3 lakh and speculative losses 1.2 lakh from stock market, whether I have to get CA audit done for ITR filling?
kindly s
You have to if your total income is over Rs 2.5lks.
Please mention the nature of business code in ITR3 for Trader ( FnO and Intraday). Is it 13015 or 13010 ?
You could use 13015
Hello Team,
Really good work!
Could you please explain the taxation rules for an NRI who does the trading. let us say the person earned 10 L from trading in a financial year , what would be the tax he/she will have to pay?
Thank you,
Tarun
You need to add it to all your other income and pay as per the slab if trading F&O. Equity is the same as resident, 15% STCG and 10% above 1lk as LTCG.
Dear Team,
I am salaried person & have income from one house & losses from intraday equity trading for AY 2019-20. Total income from these two is approx 11 lacs.
My turnover for intraday is 1.4 lacs and losses of 38000 as per my demat statement including STT.
Can i use ITR 4 or I need to use ITR 3, secondly can i use presumptive scheme and pay tax on 8% profit to avoid audit.
Is audit mandatory even if i pay the tax on 8% profit.
If you pay tax on presumptive income, no audit required. But no point doing it as you would end up paying more tax than cost of an audit. Best to get it done, it is quite simple.
Dear sir,
I am a full timer F&O trader my current year (ay-19-20) turnover 19 lk (non-speculative) . my current year loss-5 lk . but ay 2018-19 turn over 38 lk and loss 3 lk (itr-3 & processed) ay 2017-18 turn over 89lk profit rs 5.2 lk ( wrongly fill itr2 & hopefully processed) .
now my question is current year audit i requre or not. I”m I tax bracket . if yes any procedure to avoid audit?
Thank u
If your total income is in tax bracket, best to get an audit done.
I want to find out for showing F&O P&L as Business Income or Loss, out of the following expenses, which expenses are allowed to be utilized for tax filing purposes:-
1) Securities Transaction Tax
2) Total Brokerage
3) Exchange Transaction Charges
4) SEBI Turnover Fees
5) Stamp Duty
6) Demat Annual Maintenance Charges
7) Fees paid to Portfolio Manager
Thanks in advance for your help with this.
Everything can be shown as an expense as F&O is considered a business income, you just have to pay tax on your net gain.
Hi,
I am a salaried person with short term gain of 13K and intra-day gain of 2000/- on a trading of 50,000/-. Can you let me know can I use ITR2 or should I go for ITR3 because of 2K intraday gain. Also am I need to get the audit done?
Thanks,
Guru
Since you have done only little, maybe you can just use ITR2. Best to consult your CA.
If you could provide sample format to fill ITR 3 for trader it would be helpful. Confused with balance sheet and P/L statements. In my case Audit is not required (income for the year is less than 2.5lks and turnover below 2 crores) . Thak you.
https://tradingqna.com/t/sample-itr3-forms-for-fy18-19/59689
i have not done much of trading this financial year and sell only 2-3 shares and that too in loss.Do i have to show short term capital loss in my income tax declaration as it is less than rs 1000.
Sir,
I read your article and also went through the FAQs. Still my doubt stands unresolved.
I have salary income of Rs. 8,00,000. Intra-day equity losses 50,000. Turnover calculated based on absolute figures is less than 1 crore. No other source of income.
Do i have to get my accounts audited ?
Thank you
Yeah, will need to get an audit.
If I had subscribed to bloomberg, can it also be shown as expense fee towards trading?
Yes
Sir,
If the taxpayer incurred only losses while trading in FnO and decides not to claim and carry forward the trading loss, he can avoid the hassle of tax audit? Also, can he choose to fill ITR2 rather than ITR3 in this case? Total turnover is approx 20K with losses of 4K.
Thanks.
If turnover is very less, maybe you can think of something (show losses as short term capital loss). Do speak to a CA on this, kind of grey area.
i trade in stock market for last many years. i have been filling my returns as business income as shares trading is my only vocation.
this year my total turnover
short term turnover(purchases – sales ) = 1.25 crore.
intraday turnover(positives – negatives) = 2.50 lac
& this year my loss is around 1.49 lac.
DO i need an audit .
pls reply
If your total income is less than 2.5lks then no, if not yes.
my investment is Rs.500000 in intraday, but profit only Rs.2200. what is the calculate on income tax 500000 or 2200.
Rs 2200, you pay taxes only on profits.
Hello Guys ,
During the Year i have earned Professional Income and Loss from Speculative Income
Let as Assume PI = 2500000 and SI = -35516
Now for Calculating Income Tax i have disclosed PI under 44ADA and Loss from Speculative Income as under Separate Head.
But am Getting an error that i need to Get my Books Audited as I have Declared Loss in Speculative Business.
Kindly Share the Method to Calculate the Turnover for Speculative Business and How to disclose the Negative fig.
Thx for supporting, waiting for reply as early as Possible
If total income is taxable (more than 2.5lks) you will need an audit to carry forward the loss.
I have loss of 50,000/- during the year in F&O trading.
I have gain interest of 50,000/- from NHAI bond during the year.
Can i set off the loss of F&O against profit/earning made by NHAI bond while filing the ITR?
If yes, please give the reference Income tax clause number for the same.
thank you.
Yes, you can. Same year business loss can be adjusted against income from other sources (including interest). Do consult your CA for tax filing help.
Hi for commodity trading ( crude oil) will the profit or loss be considered as speculative or business income ?
Business income.
Can we claim gst 18% which charged by government on my options trading.
As expenses, yeah.
Hi..
I am retired and does not have any other regular income. For the FY 2018-2019
My cumulative Bank interest of Savings Accounts: Rs. 12,000
F&O Turnover Rs. 43 Lakhs
Loss :2.05 Lakhs
Short term equity gain: Rs.19,300 ( only 5 trades)
Long Term CG : Rs.8581 (Only one trade)
Kindly suggest me the “IT Form” for filing IT returns and also confirm whether Audit is Mandatory in this case ?
regards,
ITR3 and no need of audit.
Thank you for valuable advice. regards,
Can i claim all stt, brokerage,service tax,turnover and other taxes as expenses or cost in Intraday , short term , long term gain or loss
STT can’t be shown as an expense for calculating capital gains. But otherwise, the rest can be. STT can be shown as expense for business income (intraday, F&O).
Sir,
Referring to my above August 1, query w.r.t. filing returns and audit mendatory.
As advised, I will use ITR3 form for filing return. With this, can I adjust my losses in case of earing profit in FY2019-20?
regards,
Yeah
helo team,
please guide me on the following-
salary income – 2 lakh
intraday equity trading sell value – 50lakh
intraday equity trading purchase value- 49.90lakh
intraday equity loss is – 10 thousand
1. am i required to get audited?
2. which itr i have to file ?
ITR3 and not mandatory to audit.
Hi nithin sir and team,
I am a house wife. I do not have any income other than trading. trading is a only business for me.
Now I have done intra day trading with zerodha and following is the tax statement for this year
Tax P&L Statement for EQ from 2018-04-01 to 2019-03-31
Realized Profit Breakdown
Intra-day/Speculative profit -20006.15
Short-term profit -3950.00
Long-term profit 0.00
Total realized profit -23956.15
Turnover Breakdown (Scripwise)
Intra-day/speculative turnover 41356.65
Other Debits/Credits including Service Tax
Total Charges 19510.56
Total Other Charges -349.87
Charges
Account Head Tax Amount
Brokerage – Z 4575.856
Central GST – Z 621.2066
Clearing Charges – Z 0.0069
Exchange Transaction Charges – Z 2326.433
Integrated GST – Z 0
SEBI Turnover Fees – Z 107.3785
Securities Transaction Tax – Z 9111
Stamp Duty – Z 2147.4766
State GST – Z 621.2066
Tax P&L Statement for FO from 2018-04-01 to 2019-03-31
Realized Profit Breakdown
Options realized profit -68495.50
Futures realized profit -223430.65
Total realized profit -291926.15
Turnover Breakdown (Scripwise)
Options turnover 1465473.00
Futures turnover 338418.45
Total Turnover 1803891.45
Other Debits/Credits including Service Tax
Total Charges 76315.18
Total Other Charges -23.60
Charges
Account Head Tax Amount
Brokerage – Z 20220
Central GST – Z 2836.9253
Clearing Charges – Z 996.5927
Exchange Transaction Charges – Z 10304.8821
Integrated GST – Z 0
SEBI Turnover Fees – Z 710.5941
Securities Transaction Tax – Z 24198
Stamp Duty – Z 14211.2558
State GST – Z 2836.9253
Please help me to know following things –
1. Do I required to have Audit.
2. which ITR form should i use ?
3. can i claim all stt, brokerage,service tax,turnover and other taxes.as expenses or cost.
4. can i declare my loss to carry forward..
1. Not really.
2. ITR3.
3. Yes
4. Yes, make sure to file ITR before due date.
Does schedule tribe people needs to pay tax from short term capital gain? , (with reference, sec 10(26) of income tax act)
I mean to say, selling of shares(short term)
Hello Nithin ji. My salary income for FY 2018-2019 is Rs. 2,54000 (before any kind of deduction). Around Rs. 5,000 from savings bank deposits. I have a net loss while trading in f&o on Zerodha. If I want to file ITR 4 (presumptive), do I need to get my a/c books audited since my business income is < 6% of total turnover. Does Total Income for the year u/s 44AD mean the total income before any deduction, e.g., standard deduction ? Thanks
You can avoid the audit.
Hello Nithin Ji and Zerodha team,
I am doing intraday trading, taking short term and long term position with Zerodha. I want know that for Income tax calculation of net income or net loss can I reduce all expenses ( Brokerage, STT, GST etc) from buy and sell value.
Arvind
STT/GST can’t be used to reduce, but the rest can be.
Hello Nitin sir,
My salary is 8.7 L for the year,
Intraday Turn over is 2400
Intraday profit is 1600,
Do i need to get audit?
Which itr to file?
Thanks in advanced.
Since it is so less, you can maybe just show this as short term capital gain under ITR2.
how can i claim demat charges and delay payment charges on debit balance as expense or cost
Yeah, you can show it as cost.
Hi Nithin Sir,
I have a long term term capital gain of Rs. 27k which is less than Rs. 1 Lac (Not taxable).
I have a short term capital loss of Rs. 15K which i want to carry forward for next year. In ITR2 form 15k short term loss is getting setoff against 27K long term capital gain and shows total gain for the year as 12k.
Is it correct? I think i should be able to carry forward loss of 15k rather than it is getting set off against non taxable long term gains.
From the time long term is taxable (10% above Rs 1lk), short term and long term get offset with each other.
Hi,
My total income from salary is 363334 and I have losses from intraday and delivery but they are very less. What form should I use? Can I ignore my intaday day loss and fill ITR2 as loss is very very less to avoid tax audit.
Below are my intaday/ delivery details
Realized Profit Breakdown
Intra-day/Speculative profit -1256.35
Short-term profit -2950.45
Long-term profit 0.00
Total realized profit -4206.80
Turnover Breakdown (Scripwise)
Intra-day/speculative turnover 1256.35
Yea, you could potentially use ITR2. Do speak to a CA.
i have bought some 200 shares @ 3000 in 2007, then the company got delisted. i got bonus of 400 shares on theses shares in 2010. then i got right issue for 200 shares at discounted price of 400 rs. the company as of now is not listed or unlisited. now during Financial year 2018-19, i have sold 300 @ 2000 off market and 300 i gave as gift to my son.now i am left with 200 shares only.
how should i show it in my books and treat it.
original shares 200 @ 3000 per share
bonus shares 400 @ 0 per share
right issue 200 @ 400 per share.
in F.Y 2018-19
sold 300 @ 2000
& another 300 gave gift to my son.
can i show my bonus shares as given gift ?
can i show my right issue shares been sold.
and can i keep my original shares at cost as my holding OR FIFO(first in first out ) will apply.
please help its urgent as i am not able to file my return
thanking you
You will have to follow FIFO (First in first out) on all stocks moving in and out of your demat.
I am a salary person with income above exemption limit. In FY 2018-19 I did intraday in equity & Futures & commodity. Also delivery based transaction below are my accounts details if u can help me in finding answers to below question that will be very kind help from you.
Intra-day/speculative turnover 2,88,525
Futures turnover 78,118
Futures COM turnover 92,805
Short-term profit 8,987
Intra-day/Speculative loss =(1,13,498)
Futures realized Loss = (34,928)
Futures realized Loss COM= (46,595)
Total (LOSS) = (1,86,034)
Is audit requirement applicable on me?. What due date for filling ITR ? & which ITR ?
Yeah, best to get an audit done, ITR3 and by Aug 31st.
Hi Nitin,
can we add zerodha total charges(including brokrage,STT, like other charges) in loss??
In Intraday equity and F&O you can. But not for capital gains.
The literature provided is superb!!! It just cannot be made simpler than this..Kudos to the team.
hello nitin sir
please guide me on the following-
salary income 250000
non spectulative income f&o -69000
intraday -50000
commodity future -2100
total loss all
1.am i require to audit
2.which itr i have to file
1. You could avoid as your total income isn’t taxable.
2. ITR3
Hi Sir,
If there is a loss of say 1 lakh in fno, turnover is 5 lakh, Salary income is 10 lakh, then is
(i) there any need for tax audit to carry forward losses,
(ii) which ITR return is to be filed? and
(iii) if one doesnt want to carry forward fno losses, the can we file ITR1?
1. Yea
2. ITR3
3. No, you will still need to file ITR3 for F&O income.
respected sir
my options trading loss is 3,00,000 and my annual salary rs.6,87,000
what type of return i should submit
is audit required
reply soon sir
ITR3 and yeah audit needed. Check this https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Hello Sir, Am salaried person. Please suggest how i can file my commodity losses in IT returns. Many reviews/articles never heard the name commodity or its others will use for the commodities (features and options ). In Short Term Equity trading my Realized Profit is 22,148.95 and Long term trading Realized Profit -333.00 . Both need to be filled in other income sources like the capital gain option.
The Futures realized profit is -41527.50 and Open Positions of ALL-COM as on 2018-03-28 Unrealized P&L -13690. Please suggest me where i need to mention these commodity losses in ITR.
Thanks,
Murulidhar G
Best to consult a CA for ITR filing help. You can checkout https://zerodha.quicko.com/
I am salaried employee TDS got deducted from salary. salary is more than 10L PA
I have intraday loss of 70k to 80k .
Do I need to get Audit done?
and if yes how before file ITR3 or after ?
Yeah best to get an audit, and you have to do it while filing your ITR3. Check out https://zerodha.quicko.com/
I have profit of Rs. 10,000/- in equity share transaction in FY 18-19.
I also have loss of Rs. 20,000/- in F&O transaction in FY 18-19.
While ITR filing, is it valid to show net loss of 10,000/-, and pay no tax on profit of Rs. 10,000/- in equity share transaction.
If you show equity trading as business income you can. Do go through the entire module.
I declare share trading activity i.e. intraday, short term (holding less than a year) and F&O as business income under presumptive taxation. However I also have a few trades where the holding period is more than a year. Should these trades be included in business income or should they be kept separate and taxed as per LTCG taxation?
Thanks
If you are using ITR4, you can’t show capital gains. You will have to declare as business income.
Hi nithin sir and team,
MY NAME IS RAJUL AND I am a house wife. I do not have any income other than trading. trading is a only business for me.
Now I have done intra day trading with zerodha and following is the tax statement for this year
Tax P&L Statement for COM from 2018-04-01 to 2019-03-31
Realized Profit Breakdown
Options realized profit 0.00
Futures realized profit -103480.00
Total realized profit -103480.00
Turnover Breakdown (Scripwise)
Options turnover 0.00
Futures turnover 103480.00
Total Turnover 103480.00
Unrealized Profit Breakdown
Futures realized profit -28380.00
Options realized profit 0.00
Total realized profit -28380.00
Other Debits/Credits including Service Tax
Total Charges 19972.30
Total Other Charges 306.80
Charges
Account Head Tax Amount
Brokerage – ZCOM 4960
Central GST – ZCOM 0
Clearing Charges – ZCOM 1346.2976
Commodities Transaction Tax – ZCOM 6547
Exchange Transaction Charges – ZCOM 3599.7343
Integrated GST – ZCOM 1783.0857
SEBI Turnover Fees – ZCOM 207.6842
Stamp Duty – ZCOM 1528.497
State GST – ZCOM 0
Futures
Symbol Qty Buy Value Buy Average Sell Value Sell Average Realized P&L Realized P&L %
GOLDM19APRFUT 770 24961419.9999 32417.4286 24909140 32349.5325 -52280 -0.2094
GOLDM19MARFUT 950 31650429.9999 33316.2421 31605750.0001 33269.2105 -44680 -0.1412
GOLDM19MAYFUT 280 8982860 32081.6429 8976340 32058.3571 -6520 -0.0726
Realized Profit -103480.00
Tax P&L Statement for EQ from 2018-04-01 to 2019-03-31
Realized Profit Breakdown
Intra-day/Speculative profit -56.40
Short-term profit 141.30
Long-term profit 0.00
Total realized profit 84.90
Turnover Breakdown (Scripwise)
Intra-day/speculative turnover 63.70
Other Debits/Credits including Service Tax
Total Charges 16.84
Total Other Charges -60.77
Charges
Account Head Tax Amount
Brokerage – Z 2.5069
Central GST – Z 0
Clearing Charges – Z 0
Exchange Transaction Charges – Z 1.0408
Integrated GST – Z 0.6386
SEBI Turnover Fees – Z 0.048
Securities Transaction Tax – Z 11
Stamp Duty – Z 1.6013
State GST – Z 0
Intraday
Symbol Qty Buy Value Sell Value Buy Average Sell Average Realized P&L
RELIANCE 1 1263.35 1267 1263.35 1267 3.65
ONGC 78 11149.2 11089.15 142.9385 142.1686 -60.05
Realized Profit -56.40
Short Term Trades
Symbol Qty Buy Value Sell Value Buy Average Sell Average Realized P&L
ONGC 27 3558 3699.3 131.7778 137.0111 141.3
Realized Profit 141.30
Please help me to know following things –
1. Do I required to have Audit.
2. Do I need to disclose all this intra day trading in ITR filling and which ITR form should i use ?
3.as i am not coming to any tax slab then isit mandatory to fill the itr.
4. if i want to carry forward the loss then itr form can be filled without audit.
1. No
2. Yes, ITR3
3. Yeah, best to fill the ITR
4. Yeah, since you have no other income.
My total income from other sources is 350000 and loss from f&o is 130000 . Do i need audit
Depends on the turnover, look at the entire module.
Sir, I have made intra day losses around 1 lac. My turnover by adding losses and gains of intraday is around 4 lacs.
I have made stcg and ltcg also.
1. Can I file showing income of 8% on 4 lacs and ignoring losses.
2. I have considered it as business income instead of speculative income. what should I do.
3. I will separately calculate the taxes on ltcg and stcg.
1. Yea
2. It is a speculative business income.
3. Yea
Sir, I have made intra day losses around 1 lac. My turnover by adding losses and gains of intraday is around 4 lacs.
I have made stcg and ltcg also.
1. Can I file showing income of 8% on 4 lacs and ignoring losses. And not getting the accounts audited.
2. I have considered it as business income instead of speculative income. what should I do.
3. I will separately calculate the taxes on ltcg and stcg.
Can I expect to get a notice for F&O trading done in 2012-13 but not shown in ITR . Actually the loss was nominal i.e. Rs 5000 and turnover was 1.3 Lacs. I also had a intraday trading loss of Rs. 3300 with corresponding turnover of Rs.13500.I had a STCG of rs.9000 for which I have paid the taxes.
Typically notices will come within 5 years, so chances are unlikely that you will get now.
Dear Sir,
Very much informative, But Confused Do i have to file return & Pay tax for the only income from short term Capital gain is 14,000/- & no other source of income in my (HUF) file?
Not mandatory to file ITR.
Hi,
I am an IT professional and I am regularly trading in Derivatives. Currently I am standing on loss of 12 Lakhs and my Turnover in Zerodha, it has already crossed 6 crores for the FY2019-20. Kindly guide me on actions I should take before Income Tax Filing. I will start preparing the required documents from now. Also let me know if there is problem, if I trade regularly in Derivatives.
You don’t really have to do anything special – all reports already available on console.zerodha.com. Check this https://zerodha.quicko.com/ they might help you with filing your ITR.
Hello,
I have been trading since past 4 years. Unfortunately ending up in losses every year.
My yearly income is 2,50,00 (Two Lakh Fifty Thousand) In Hand since 2016-2019 (Present)
Broker (Ed******ss)
FY 2016-17 –> (-12,565) Loss
FY 2017-18 –> (-15,719) Loss
FY 2018-19 –> (-75,755) Loss
Broker (Zer***a)
FY 2019-20 –> (-1,217.60 Equity) Loss
FY 2019-20 –> (- 1,47,600.0 F&O) Loss
Broker (Fy*r)
FY 2019-20 –> (-33,900.60 Equity) Loss
FY 2019-20 –> (-95.600.0 F&O) Loss
Broker (Alice+Astha+Sharekh)
FY 2019-20 –> (-80,000) Loss
In Total From All Broker since 2016-2019 i am in Net -(5,03,839) Loss.
Do I Still have to pay tax?
Please help!!
Hi,
We are a Private limited company involved in trading and import of engineering spares and raw materials.
Iam the active and regular F&O trader and execute trades from my own account.
In order to expand the Business planning to add F&O trades also under my Private Limited Business vertical feeling that we can get the GST tax benefit as a credit during my Monthly GST filing.
Please suggest as it’s possible to take GST credit from the F&O trading activities.
You will not be able to take GST credit, best to keep these separate.
hi,
my income from salary is 612000 in F.Y.2018-19. loss in Equity is 563000 & F&O 561000. i file the ITR3 on 31st august 2019.
1.do i need to audit? .
2. I have already file ITR3. if audit need can i do that before 30th september 2019?
3. If i fail to do audit what is penalty?
1. Yea, best to.
2. Yeah
3. Best to revise your returns. You can check out https://zerodha.quicko.com/
sir i am strictly intraday trader & i have only trading in share market income. my question is
1.intraday cash profit – 100000
2.F&O intraday profit – 200000
please suggest my tax liability.
Your total income is 3lks. You have to pay tax as per your income tax slabs. I don’t think you will have any tax to pay, but do file your ITR. Check https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Hello,
I have an question on Taxation…
1) I am House-wife and does having any Income but Am trading with my Pocket Money (Approx. 5K to 10K per month)
2) In this case whether i need to pay Income Tax for profits gained in Equity & FNO?
3) If so, will you please explain the process by taking the example of 200,000 INR as profit
Thank you.
Hi,
Index F&O profit so far in fiscal March 2020 is 4,00,000
Index F&O loss so far in fiscal March 2020 is 5,50,000. Also, have index F&O losses of 2,50,000 in fiscal March 2016 and 2017. Can you please help with tax liability and how does offsetting gains with losses work here?
Also, how frequently do i need to file the statements? Any links to the etax website would be helpful.
Regads,
Sahil
Sahil, can you go through this entire module, all your questions are answered. You can carry forward loss only if you have filed the ITR on time, which means you can’t carry forward the 16 or 17 losses. For FY19/20, you have to file your ITR only next year, after March 2020.
What is TAX percentage for profits from option trading
What is TAX percentage for profits from option trading
As per your income tax slab of total income. Check all the chapters.
Hello sir
I am equity and future intraday trader
Mera equity turnover around 50000rs h
And future turnover 3500rs around h
Net me total Loss me hu
Mai pichle 6 mahine se intrafay Trading kr raha hu
Kya meri b Tax liability hai ya ITR form etc bharna jaroori hai
I am waiting for ur answer
If you have no other income, you can avoid filing ITR. But if you have other income, then please do file.
Hello Sir/Madam,
I am a working woman.I have started intraday trading last week. My annual salary is 5lakh. I have earned Rs.1400 profit in intraday trading. I have taken margin amount given by zerodha’s broker because of which total turnover is 6lakh approx (30K self sponsored and rest of the amount is given by zerodha).
My question is do I have to pay income tax for my salary (6lakh ) + my profit earned (rs.1400) or
should I have to pay tax for my salary(6lakh) + total intraday turnover amount(6lakh) .
Please advice !!
Thanks !!!
🙂 you pay taxes on your profits only, not on your trading turnover. Do go through the entire module.
Hi,
Can I know How to recognize income if I am trading in Futures and Options as per ICDS applicability.
Please give me a brief
Thanks
Deepak.
I have a query.
If a person xyz only makes money from stock market and not from anywhere else.
He trades both in equity and FNO.
Assume that he profits 5 lacs from the short term and intraday in a year.
Assume that he profits 5lacs from FNO in a year.
How exactly will he be taxed?
As long as I understand tax laws you are taxable once you cross the income of 2.5 lacs. After that how will the breakup of taxes happen on the above example?
Your total income will be Rs 10lks for the year. The first 2.5 no tax, next 2.5 to 5 @5%, 5 to 10lks at 20%. You can reduce some of this by investing into tax saving funds, showing your expenses, etc. This works exactly like how it is for a salaried person, just that trading has to be shown as business income using ITR3.
Hi sir
If suppose I gain large amt. in 2nd half of financial year and very less in 1st half in such a way that I am not paying 30% of annual tax till september .Then necessarily I have to pay penalty.Right?
Yeah, some issues in business as volatile like ours in paying advance tax.
Sir,
If we pay more tax than our tax liability in advance.Do IT department give our returns with interest or without interest?
You get it with interest, 6% returns.
am I liable to submit an IT return if I am having income of 5 lac rupees annually from tax free bonds and loss of 50000 rupees from F and O trading
Yes, best to.
Hi,
I have trading and demat account with Zerodha. I have salary income more than basic exemption limit of 2,50,000 and have incurred F&O loss of 40,000. Total F&O turnover is 1,957,747.75. Do i need to get books of accounts audited?
IF not then what are the options?
Regards,
Kunal
Yeah, best to. Why don’t you speak to https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Sir,
Can we start trading account in zerodha in the name of one person company (opc), then we can show lot of expenditure like office rent staff salary
So we can easy escape from tax…. can we open trading and investment company in zerodha with one share holder is possible…
We do open OPC accounts. However, there are some restrictions on OPC participation in the capital markets. An OPC can not carry out Non-Banking Financial Investment activities including investment in securities of any body corporate. Also, it can have a maximum paid-up capital of Rs. 50 Lakhs or an average annual turnover of Rs. 2 Crores, exceeding which the OPC must be compulsorily converted into a private or a public company. There are various other rules and regulations, and taxation impact that must be considered before going ahead with the plan. It is best you have this checked with a law firm or a CA before going ahead. Here’s everything you’ll need to open an OPC account with us, in case you go ahead with the plan.
Sir,
I had a loss of Rs. 13.5 lacs during the financial year 2017-2018 (INTRADAY FUTURES TRADES) but I have not counted the losses while I paid my taxes, which I simply paid according to my salary. I never mentioned it in my ITR that I was doing share market because my losses were very high. Now during this financial year 2019-2020, I have earned 6lacs till now from intraday futures, so can I adjust those losses in my coming ITR with the help of a CA by filling all the previous ITRS as well?
It has been really complicated now.
Regards,
Moulik Joshi
No, you can’t. If you haven’t filed your losses in time, you can’t get the benefit of setting off the profits with previous loss.
Dear Nikil,
Could you pls let know the latest position on this.When I had a chat with a tax guy he told that capital loss carry forward is 8 years and not 4 years, advance tax is 15%-45%-75% -100 % .Else pay interst u/s234 ,Sec 44 AD limit is 2 crores now,Tax under 44AD is 8% or 6% if full income through bank.A doubt as to if futures positions are taken as a hedge and liquidated in a week is it considered speculative profit or business profit.
Yeah, capital loss is 8 years carry forward. Speculative loss is max of 4 years.
Advance tax also before June 15th 15% , Sep 45% and Dec 75% and by March 100 % of tax need to be paid. In case of capital gains it can be paid in the quarter you earned.
Future trades are non-speculative.
Dear Nithin,
Great informative articles on varsity, thank you! And please continue your good work.
I have a question – I am 64 years old – hence a senior citizen. My gross pension is just under 5 lacs.
If I have F&O net profit of 1 lac till December, do I have to pay advance tax before 15th Dec? If yes, would it be 20% of 1 lac?
Thanks
Advance tax has to be paid 15% by Jun 15th 45% by Sep 15th, 75% by Dec 15th and 100% by Mar 15th. This is essentially whatever is the overall tax of the year that you have to pay, % of that. In trading it is slightly tricky as the P&L can change drastically. Since you are just in the taxable bracket, you could potentially wait till end of the year and not pay the advance tax, maybe pay some small interest for whatever wasn’t paid if you need to at the end of the year.
Thank you Nithin! I guess I will wait.
Dear Nithin,
I have gone through few Q&A on taxation on this blog but still I didn’t get answer to my one of the question.
I am a trader not investor, I only do intraday.
Now my question is as below:
1. Do day traders need to pay tax only when they withdraw the money from their trading funds to bank ?
2. Even trader don’t withdraw any profits from the their funds to bank account, in this case also should he need to pay the tax.
Because for example in a year if I earn 100,000 rs but I don’t want to withdraw I want this capital for upcoming day tradings as a capital. And also I may loose this 100,000 rs profit in coming trading days as loss.
Please clarify my doubt.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards,
King
You have to pay taxes on your net profits at the end of the year while filing ITR. It doesn’t matter if funds are in trading account or bank account. If you have realized profits, you have to pay taxes on that. You can always get a tax refund if you end up paying some advance tax and then the year ends in a loss.
Hi,
Please advise if gains from F&O (Non Speculative business income) be offset with short term loss from equities.Can Gains from F&O be offset with anything (loss).
Thanks
Yes, it can be offset against any other business loss. If you show your short term equity loss as business loss, then F&O gain can be offset.
If the gains from F&O offsets losses from Short term equity and the total taxable income is >2.5L and the turnover is <2cr. Will the tax audit be required ?
No.
i am an indian citizen and day trader, i trade US markets only, where do i get information about taxes?
Information on taxes in the US? Maybe just google for it. Btw, Indian residents aren’t really allowed to do day trading etc outside India.
Hi, I understood what is Tax loss harvesting. My case means E.g. Say I have STCG of Rs. 10000 and LTCG of 30000.
To offset say, I have 100 ITC share which is unrealised loss in my portfolio. But the catch is 35 of them have achieved long-term.
So, only 65 of them are bought in this financial year.
As per what I have seen in Zerodha portal. The stock settlement type is FIFO.
Based on above, what I understand is If I want to use the opportunity to offset some STCG with help of 65 shares of ITC, For the above I have to compulsorily sell all of my 100 shares (the 35 quantity which is long term and will not help in offsetting STCG). I don’t want to sell the long-term achieved 35 ITC share. Is there a way out? Is there a technique to use LIFO( Last In First Out)?
Ah yeah, it will be tough for you to harvest in your situation. FIFO is as per the guidelines of the income tax department, you can’t just change that based on what suits you better.
Dear nitin,
I have incurred loss of Rs 1,18,000/- in options trade(non speculative?) and profit of 14900/- in intraday (speculative).
since i had set off the profit of 14900/- with 1,18,000/- and shown net loss of Rs 1,03,100/- in my income in A.Y. 2019-20.
Now i have recd notice from IT deptt under 143(1)/a stating that this amount of 14900/- is suppose to be considered as income and clubbed with other income such as interest /salary.
how to respond if you can pl suggest?
regds
Iv singh
Yeah, like I have explained in the module, you can’t setoff speculative against non-speculative. Best to take help of a CA to respond. You can check this if you need help: https://zerodha.quicko.com/
I am not salaried. I am only intraday & equity and F & O Trading. But i am not profit. Turnover 1500000laks. My Loss 1,45,000/- what to do . How to I file Income Tax.
Check this if you need help https://zerodha.quicko.com/
I have traded in Nifty futures taken 100 trades. my profit + loss = 1,50,000/- in a years (No. 1)
and my transaction turnover = 12000*200 (nifty price x buy/sell quantity) = 2,4,00,000/- (No.2)
Which one will be counted as a turnover for audit? No. 1 or No. 2? Please suggest, very confused, should i need to get audited or not.
Consider only future trading…
No 1. Check this chapter: https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl/
Dear Sir,
Can you please advise on the following?
I have salary income, professional net income (INR 35000 by teaching; no presumptive tax case; 85% shown as income from receipts) and F & O loss (-1800 INR; turnover 3000; number of trades 6; DMAT charges 300). After filing ITR3, the F & O related loss got adjusted automatically with the professional income. And I paid the remaining taxes.
Recently, I received an Arithmetic computation error (variance reports) for business income. The ITR 143 notification shows variance of the amount which is equal to loss from F & O (INR 2100; 1800 loss and 300 DMAT charge shown as expense).
Please advise on how this can be handled.
1) what should I do so that the system does not adjust the loss with professional income?
2) can I simply omit the F & O business entry, forget the loss and pay remaining taxes?
3) if F & O loss is to be shown ITR 3, where can I show the F & O loss in ITR3? Can it be shown as STCG since the number of trades is less than 10 and turnover is ~ 3000
Kindly advise. Thank you very much Sir.
Ah, it is best if you consult a CA for this. Check this https://zerodha.quicko.com/
It is best to consult a CA for tax filing help. Check this: https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Dear Sir,
I just started investing 6 months ago , but by mistakenly i purchased some stocks on December 2019 which i need to sell. So , some of my stocks are above 10 % gain and some are below -6% loss,and i have no other income elsewhere.( The total amount of purchasing stocks is Rs 30000)
If i sell those stocks now do i have to file any TDS or do audit because of selling stocks below 6% profit.
Ah no, no audit and all. You just have to show the net gain you have made on your ITR2 form. Do go through all the chapters of this module.
Hi. Nithin sir,
I m doing equity investing since last year. And I didn’t do any intra day trading. So I had filed ITR – 2 by myself I had about 1L + profits.
This year I have about 4L plus loss which are long term (holding for more than year)
I have been reading about and considering to start with commodity trading, from next FY.
SO my question is can I continue to file ITR 2.
Should I file ITR 3. And is it compulsory to get it audited if I file ITR-3
I have read that commodity trading comes under business income and not capital gains.
Can you kindly clarify on this.
If you start trading commodities, then you have to file using ITR3 as it is business income. There are certain criteria for which you need an audit, check out the chapter on turnover.
Hello sir
I had salaried income of Rs. 16 lakhs and TDS Is around 2.7 lakhs after all savings and deductions. Apart from salary, I had income from fixed deposit interests from april 2019 till march 2020.
Recently i incurred long term capital gain loss by selling shares which i holded and the loss was around 65000rs for equity. Also I incurred total loss of around 2 lakhs in f and o trading ( which includes loss incurred plus brokerage plus gst plus STT and brokerage exchange fee). I had a turnover of around rs. 15 lakhs while trading in f and o but ended only in losses.
Can you please confirm if I file ITR (ITR 3 Form) for Assessment year 2020 – 2021… can i offset losses from F and O against income from salary and bank deposit interest and claim TDS Refund. Also can loss against long term capital holding of shares be offset against income ftom Salary and bank income and can i claim tax refund of TDS Deducted. Need your guidance
You can’t offset against salary, but you can against your interest income (business income). Long term capital loss can’t be offset against salary or interest income.
As I am an undergraduate student My income is below 2.5lac as my income comes from trading in share market alone, mainly from futures and options trading, or sometimes from intraday or short term gain. Apart from this I have no other income source except for interests from saving bank account.
My total net income from trading in F/O or short term gain for 2018-19 is around 1.60lac but the turnover in futures is around 2.5crores while that in equity may be around a crore but net profit is just around 1.6lac.
I wanted to know am I required to file income tax return(ITR) or audit?
Will that do if I do not file ITR as I come under exempted category?
(P.S. Asking this as I recently received the following SMS:
Attention (CKTPXXXX2B), Your PAN has been flagged for not filing of ITR for FY 2018-19. Please file your ITR or submit online response under e-Campaign tab on Compliance Portal (CP). Access CP by logging into e-filing portal (My Account) – ITD)
Should I choose the option that Income below 2.5 lac?
By turnover of futures I mean the total sell value, the summation of all turnover messages that one receives from Nse at the end of the day,
Not understanding why zerodha is showing that I have just 1.48L turnover in F/O, is my concept of turnover correct?
Ankur, firstly can you go through all the chapters in this module, I have explained how turnover has to be calculated for taxation. It isn’t contract turnover. If your total income is below 2.5lks, you wouldn’t need an audit. You can check this for tax filing help: https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Dear Sir,
As a student my net income from all sources is 1.6L. out of which following are few description:
1. Equity STCG Rs.47364
+ Business Income:
2. Equity intraday income Rs.2551 (Turnover Rs.27745)
3. Equity F/O income Rs.86526 (Turnover Rs.120419)
I see audit is not requires in my case but Please guide me if I am required to submit ITR 3 and what would be the consequences if I don’t. (As I have received an intimation that my PAN has been flagged.)
If yes then do suggest why ITR3 is required?
Thank You so much for all that you do! Sir I see this all selfless work stores a lot of blessings in your subtle account !!
Yes, best to file ITR3. You can speak to https://zerodha.quicko.com/ for tax filing help.
Hey, I have opened new Demat account, wherein I have invested the amount in intraday of INR 900 only, Even I was not aware of that later got to know that i have invested in intraday, so I want to know do I need to file the ITR because I did not get the provided from the that. and also my income is 18K P. m only. Help me plz
If it is such a small amount and you are within the tax slab, you need not really file your ITR, it is advisable though if you can. ITR2 and show the intraday as short term. You can reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Do i need to file any ITR if i sell stocks above 10 % profit? .
I have no other income except stock market. And my total income is below 2.5 lakh.
Not required, but advisable.
I have professional income of Rs.400000 under section 44ADA and incurred loss of Rs.165000 in F&O transactions. My turnover from both activities is below 1 crore. Do I need to get my accounts audited from CA. I don’t have any other income and I am filing return for first time. I read module on this topic and now just want to confirm. Please comment as soon as possible.
Not mandatory to get an audit, but advisable.
sir ,my salary is 420000/- and stcg is 81000 and charges 26000 and future and option loss 231000/- please tall me what to do
To file your ITR, you can reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/
If Gains from f&O is business income then we have pay tax according to corporate tax rate or salary income tax rate?
As max corporate tax rate is 22% while salary income is 35%
If you are trading in your name, you have to pay as per your(individual) income tax slabs.
Sir,
How can one find his annual turnover? My FD income is under Rs.2 Lac and suffered huge loss
during F.Y 19-20 year also. Is there any requirement of audit? Since September,19 I have started
trading with ZERODHA preferably on intraday basis. I would like to know as and when ZERODHA
provides LOSS/GAIN, Closing balance statements enable me to file IT return in time?
you can visit https://console.zerodha.com/, you will find Tax P&L. Has everything that you need. Btw, you can also reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/ for help.
My non-speculative business income out of F&O income is Rs. 1.2 lakh; Expense is Rs. 2.0 lakh. Then the net profit is – 0.8 lakh (Loss).
In ITR, I tried to adjust this loss against Income from Other Source. But IT dept. took my business income as nil and not allowed to set off the loss against any other income. Is it true? Why? Please give a clarification on this.
Thanks
Ajay, there is a change in ITR where we need to classify this separately and you can offset against all other income other than salaries. Best to consult a CA on this or reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Nitin sir I am new beginner i am saleried person 320000 annum income from salery I have just profit in intra day 1380 and short term capital gain is 3580 only what I need file itr please suggest me ….
Sir zerodha Mai tax pay ke liye ek alag se option Hona chaiye Jha se hum tax pay Kar sake easy way….sab kuch online
STT- is STT charged at 0.1% of each traded value (irrespective of loss or gain) or the net traded value per day?
0.1% of traded value for delivery based trades. Check this.
Hi Nithin Sir,
I have a salary income above exemption limit.
I did a bit of intraday trading where my turnover is 60,000 and my Intraday profit is 9,000.
1. Do i need to have an audit done?
2. In one of the plans at Quicko, i read “Trading entries more than 250”, what does this mean? is this the number of intraday orders placed in one year and if this is more than 250, then audit is necessary?
Thanks!
1. Not needed I think.
2. Best to ask them.
hi nitin sir ,
MY FNO SCRIPWISE TURN OVER IS 56 L
IS AUDIT REQUIRED?
MY LOSSES ARE 38K+39.5K CHARGES AND MY PROFESSIONAL INCOME 2.5L
Audit is not based on scripwise turnover, but gross sum of P&L. Do go through all the chapters. You can reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Sirs,
My F&O turnover (in zerodha report) is 15.6 lacs. I have incurred loss in this segment.
Audit is required. To show this as business, my auditor says that it needs to enter purchases and sales total amounts and to be treated this as turnover and for this F&O trades it goes to crores. Kindly clarify how to input this 15.6 lacs as turnover.
Thanks..
Why don’t you reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/
I am incurring loss and my turnover is below 1lkh.
My total income is less than 2.5L.
Do I need an audit/or pay tax?
No need of audit or tax.
Look i have 20,000 as capital. I traded total 7 times and got profit of 2000 each roughly. Now my capital becomes 34,000. I earned the profit in 1 month. Now should i pay tax because i invested total 20,000 × 7 = 1,40,000 Or not ? my overall trading profit was only 14,000. Iam a student. I don’t have any income source (nil). I didnot withdraw a single rupee into my bank account please reply
Taxes have to be paid only on income not on turnover. So taxes only on Rs 14000. But you need to pay taxes only if your minimum income is over Rs 2.5lks. Since you don’t have any other income, you don’t have to pay any tax. Go through the entire module.
Hey
In the CII index calculator page, it says only till 2018-19 its available can you tell me what’s the problem. visit-https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Pages/utilities/Cost-Inflation-Index.aspx
Thanks
AK
Can you check this link? It is 280 for FY 18/19 and 289 for FY19/20.
Hello Sir,
I’m Shankar, I’m a salaried person & also a regular trader in zerodha. I trade only in F & O .
I’m filing ITR through a CA (Chartered accountant), but I have some questions.
For FY 2018-2019, F & O turnover is 5.5 Crore (as per the F & o turnover methodology) & Loss is “-27 .5 Lakhs”.
I received tax demand notice from IT Dept which my CA will handle, which made me think of all these sections.
From your article, I understand that,
F & O loss is ‘Non speculative loss’ & loss can be carried forward for 8 years.
My question 1) is,
I don’t want to set off this loss against any other income & also I dont want to show any expenses. I just want to show this amount as as business loss thats it.
So, is Audit required just because turnover crossed 5 crore…?
According to my CA, F & O trading is non speculative subject to section 44AB (Tax Audit is mandatory).
So, to avoid ‘Tax Audit’ complications, my CA was filing as below,
1) Showing F & O loss as Speculative loss (Loss carried forward for 4 years)
Audit is not required, because it doesn’t follow the definition of regular business.
2) Opted for Regular taxation & not Presumtive taxation.
My question 2) is,
a) Please give me your opinion on the method of tax filing of my CA.
b) I wanted to file the returns in simplest method,
Please suggest me considering I don’t want to set off Loss against any other income & also I don’t want to show any expenses. (Audit is required..?).
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Shankar
Hmm, the best way to do this is by using ITR3, showing F&O as non-speculative, and by getting an audit done. Audit doesn’t cost you much if you are a salaried person and have nothing apart from trading.
In the tax calculation example, why did you tax the Rs. 2,50,000 – Rs. 5,00,000 at 10%, shouldn’t it be 5%
Ah, that example is per tax slabs two years back. I have corrected it. Thanks.
Namaste Nithin Sir,
( 😷Stay Safe 🙏 Stay Happy😄)
Sir I have one query mentioned below,
In financial Year FY19-20
1 salary – 20000 Rs PM (Annual 2,40,000 Rs.)
2 Intraday turnover Approx 7000 Rs
and loss is 1720 Rs.
3 Short Term Capital loss of Rs 1500.
As show above I have not fall in any tax slab
But having losses, should i require any audit?.
Sir Now I started F&O trading if profit from it for example 50,000 and salary is
2,40,000+50000= 2,90,000 Rs for FY.
Am I liable for advance tax and which Itr I have to file?
Not required to audit or pay any taxes. Do file ITR3.
Thank you for reply sir.🙏
Dear Sir,
What are the charges that are allowed to be deducted while computing STCG?
Brokerage,Exchange Transaction Charges, GST on the former two, Stamp Duty, all except STT?
Yes, all except STT.
Hi all,
We are experts in filing taxation. We are here to file and optimize taxes on case-by-case basis. Rest assured, you will get the best possible personalized and solution, especially if you have a complex requirements.
Please let us know your requirements at [email protected].
Best Regards,
Mukesh
Hi,
Can we do trading in derivatives(F& O), MCX trading under private limited company? Trading in derivatives will be the only business under the company. is this require NBFC license?
Thanks
If it is the only business (>50% of revenue), you will need NBFC license.
Hi,
I started day trading in equity with my zerodha account on April 17, 2020 but there’s also CNC equity investments I started in March in my second brokerage account. Should I be filing my taxes for FY 2019-2020 or do my taxes next year for FY 2020-2021? What are my options here?
Thank you for your reply.
Jener
You have to file it next year.
My Question is:
If I buy 2-10 shares in delivery daily and then sell those before a year(365 days) with profit would it be considered as Non-speculated business activity or STCG?
STCG
Hi,
I started intraday trading from Jan 2020 in Zerodha. Does the P&L for my trades gets calculated and deducted then and there OR i need to do my P&L at financial year end and then file the taxes accordingly ?
I reason i am asking is because, I am planning to take up Account Management service with a 3rd party company and they will trade with profit sharing basis. Assume they make a total profit of 50,000 in a month, i have to pay x% of profit to them.
I wanted to consider my tax liability so that i know my net profit after taxes.
Regards
You have to do at the P&L, add the income from trading to everything else you have earned, and then file returns and pay taxes.
I’d advise you not to let anyone else trade your account. Your taxes go up as and when your early income goes up. Go through the entire module here to know the details.
My option sell value is 10 lakhs however I am in lose about 16 k, can I avoid ITR filling?I don’t have any other source of income.
It is advisable to file ITR even if your P&L is small.
I have a taxable salary income. I have incurred intraday losses with turnover less than required for tax audit.I don’t want to carry forward the losses. is a tax audit required ?
No, not required.
Thank you Very much Nithin Sir 🙂
Hello Team,
As per zerodha console report, my 2019-2020 total options turnover is 3.3 cr and profit is 12.59 lakhs. However, most of these profits I lost in months of april and may of 2020 and now left with hardly 5 lakhs. I have not realized any profit (transferred to bank account) and its still lying in trading account. Do i still need to pay income tax for profit of 12 lakhs in year 19-20 while filing now which is lost anyway and never realized?
Yeah Varun, you will have to pay for FY 19/20. You can carry forward the loss and set off against any future gains.
Hey Nithin sir. First of all, I am a huge fan of you as a business man. I find Zerodha to be simple yet revolutionary.
Anytime i have a problem i look towards zerodha and i find that you guys definitely solutions to that, be it Kite connect, Pi, Pi bridge, Streak and best of all Varsity, and the list goes on.
A couple of doubts regarding this section.
1) Can one legally establish an entity in a tax haven and trade in order to save taxes?
2) If yes, then can one open an account with zerodha as a foreign entity.
3) Are the laws different for such entities with respect to trading and investing?
4) If no, then can one add a fee for using a copyrighted algorithm belonging to a foreign entity for trading to their expenses while reporting the tax.
ps. I am just 21 year old beginner in the markets who started from scratch a few months ago. I am sorry if the questions are naive. 🙂
Thank you in advance.
You can’t take money out of India and bring back in to save taxes. 🙂
Hello…
I have started fno trading from this financial year. Daily turnover as per futures value comes around 40-50 lakhs as the markets are very volatile. But as per your article fno turnover is absolute of profit and loss.
Will it be a problem IT dept. Compares actual turnover ??
Also which ITR should be filed for fno and under which business head are fno?
You need to use ITR3. Turnover like I have mentioned isn’t contract turnover, this is as per the definition of the IT department itself.
sir
im a student have no income i want to trade in f&O
would there be a need to file an itr or audit or anything if my profits remain less than 2.5 lacs?
It is best to file ITR, no need for an audit if income below Rs 2.5lks.
Can a Person having intraday transactions , declare the “Absolute differences as Turnover ” and declare 8% as income under 44AD in ITR 3 .
If so where in ITR 3 to mention this as a speculative income.
Not really. For tax filing can you check https://zerodha.quicko.com/.
I have traded in F&O, intraday, Delivery based trading. And have profit of around 25K and salaried for one month only (38K income).
Total income for the year will be Rs.63K for last year. Do i need to fill ITR3 and Tax audit is required for me or not?
Not required.
F&O and Intraday turnover 23Lakhs
Dear Nitin Babu,
First of all, take my heartiest Namaskar. You are my younger brother by age but older brother by overall knowledge and activities. I remember you at ‘VATRIDWITIYA’. I enjoy it.
I am trading through Zerodha since February 2016. But no IT return has been filled yet. Kindly note my spouse is a Government Employee. he earns >7 lakh per annum. I have no account of the profit and loss from the share market. I have no Income tax adviser to help me in this matter. What should I do? Your kind advice is earnestly solicited.
Wish you’re long and active life. I always pray to my God for you, He may make you a legend icon of Indian trade Market and the great friend of the allover Indian traders. Thanking you.
Yours faithfully,
Aparna Majhi (RA8343)
Hi Aparna, you can file returns even now. Why don’t you reach out to https://zerodha.quicko.com/. Btw, everything you need to file your ITR is within console.zerodha.com. All you would need apart from that is your bank statement.
Sir,
I am working as clerk in one of the public sector banks. My CTC is 4,25,000/-. i made intraday turnover of 1.60 Lakh and intraday profit is -3,500/- (-ve). Which one i have to mention in my ITR either intraday turnover or profit. Some persons are saying as i am a psu employee i cannot do intraday trading.
You have to show your profit or losses on ITR. You can use ITR3. Best to figure from your employer if any issues doing intraday trading.
Hi,
I read the entire chapter but a lot of it went over my head, so please can you help me with this?
I opened my Demat account in March/April 2020. I invested Rs.15000. I carried out many intraday trades over these 3 months, before losing everything last month. Do I have to pay taxes for that? I really don’t understand this tax stuff.( I am 20 year old) I know I should learn all this first, and that’s what I am planning to do before starting to trade again.
In intraday, I used to trade 100/200 shares in the range Rs.100-300. So although I was getting leverage, at the exchange It was showing that I traded over 1 lac per day. So does that mean I have to pay taxes, even though it was because intraday offers upto 10x margin and I didn’t really invest lacs of rupees?
I know this is too much to handle and very stupid of me, but I would be grateful if you could clear my doubt.
Hey, taxes are to be paid only on profits and only if your total income exceeds Rs 2.5lks in a year. So no, you don’t have to pay any tax. Since you have done trading, it is still a good idea to file Income tax return saying you have traded during the year. No taxes have to be paid though.
Also, in those numerous intraday trades, I had some profits and some losses. So do I have to pay the tax on those profits?
Also is it so that you have to pay taxes ONLY on the profits and not on the net traded amount? Cause if that’s the case then it won’t matter what the traded amount was, right? I feel so dumb.
the profits I made through those intraday trades were barely a few hundreds. I am sorry for writing different comments.
Sir,
Please tell me if I can set F&O losses against perquisite income from ESOP plan of my company?
Also can these losses be set against capital gains of shares registered in NASDAQ?
No, you can’t, F&O losses are business income, they can’t be setoff against capital gains or salary income.
Myself has incurred a total loss of 2 lakhs in last two financial years (2018-19 and 19-20) and have been carry forwarding the losses. This March during corona time I gifted 1 lakh to my wife and she made a profit of 1 lakh. Can I show it under my ITR and offset with my carry forwarding losses (indicative figures). Thanks in advance for replying
Hi Melwin
Myself have incurred a total loss of 2 lakhs in last two financial years (2018-19 and 19-20) and have been carry forwarding the losses. This March during corona time I gifted 1 lakh to my wife and she made a profit of 1 lakh. Can I show it under my ITR and offset with my carry forwarding losses (indicative figures). Thanks in advance for replying.
You need to check clubbing provisions of Income Tax Act. As per the same, the gains of 1 Lakh cannot be clubbed. There is no diversion of income here.
Also, if the income consists of 1 Lakh only – you should not be worrying as it will be below the threshold limit.
Hi Ram,
Thanks for replying and sorry for putting indicative figures. My wife is house wife and she doesn’t have any other income source
Details as below
1. My short term carry forward losses : 18 Lakh
2. My Gift to wife: 10 lakh
3. Short term Profit of wife’s investment : 7 lakh
Can I club wife’s profit under my income and offset my losses
Thanks in advance!
Hi Melwin,
As per clubbing provisions, an individual can include the income of spouse under following scenarios
AA] Remuneration to spouse from a concern in which individual has substantial interest. However there is an exception to this, where spouse possesses technical or professional qualification, clubbing provisions will not apply.
BB] Income arising to spouse from an asset transferred without adequate consideration.
Applying the above provisions, STCG of Rs 7 Lacs cannot be clubbed in your hands.
However I did check if there any decided case laws. I found one. But it says business Income can be clubbed. I have reproduced for your reference.
“Business income of wife or minor child, clubbed under provision of income tax, with the income of assessee can be set off against any loss brought forward by the individual in respect of a business carried on by him – CIT vs J.H. Gotla [1985] 156 ITR 323 (SC).”
If I find anything – I will update here.
Thanks. Cheers mate!
Hi Ram,
Thanks a lot for that quick and prudent reply. Respect!!
Regards
Hello,
How to show the short term capital loss where trading is done using margin provided by the broker? Will this transaction covered under speculative business?
Can we carry forward and set off the loss against speculative business in the future?
Thanks!
Binoy Pal
HI Binoy Pal,
No, it won’t be covered under speculative business.
Further, you cannot set off short term capital loss against speculative income in future.
Short Term Capital Loss can be used for setting off against Short Term Capital Gain and Long Term Capital Gain in future years.
Thanks,
Hello Sir,
First thing that I wanted to know that how to calculate turnover for Intraday & F&O. Plse tell me saperately with an example for both. Because if I buy and sell stocks on margin in intraday then my turnover will suddenly get above 4 to 5 crores. Then plse tell how actually the turnover get calculated. And second thing I wanted to know that in fy 18-19 in intraday I had profit of Rs. 31000 total charges was 14000 turnover on margin money was near about 4cr & in f&o I had loss of RS.6000 and turnover was 4.5lakh and I m salaried person but my income from salary in fy 18-19 was just 1.5lakh which means my overall income wasn’t taxable. As per above all conditions whether I need to do tax audit or not? although tax is not payable becoz income is less than 2.5lakh. Looking forward for positive response.
Hello sir,
Do we need to add delivary turnover into intraday turnover to check “profit less than 8% criteria”. I have this doubt because delivary trading is not business( income) and also turnover will be huge as turnover for delivary is total selling value.
i have purchased 50 shares of a particular company in June 2014. I purchased 25 shares of this company again in March 2020. I sold 25 shares of this company in May 2020.Will the selling transaction be adjusted against earlier purchase or later purchase.
Dear Team,
If I have net STCG of 2.4 Lacs and no other income, do I still need to pay 15% of STCG tax ? Or it will be tax free as my total income is under taxable bracket ?
Regards
Hi,
If I have net STCG of 2.4 Lacs and no other income, do I still need to pay 15% of STCG tax ? Or it will be tax free as my total income is under taxable bracket ?
Yes, you can adjust the STCG of 2.4 Lacs against the basic exemption limit. No need to pay 15% tax.
Sir, my annual earnings are followig
Tuition-50,000
Short termequity delivery-25,000
I want to know my tax liability
Hi Ankit,
Tuition – Rs 50,000
Short term equity delivery – Rs 25,000
I want to know my tax liability
Since the income is below basic exemption limit, Tax Liability is Zero.
Hello Sir, my only income is from equity(stcg) and intraday which is approx 2 lac(net worth)
Sir do i have to pay 15% stcg on equity profit and some tax on intraday earnings
If not liable than is it necessary to fill ITR
Sir in my case.. is it necessary to fill itr even i comes under basic exemption limit
Hi Rahul,
my only income is from equity(stcg) and intraday which is approx 2 lac(net worth)
Sir do i have to pay 15% stcg on equity profit and some tax on intraday earnings
If not liable than is it necessary to fill ITR.
Understand that 2Lacs is the profit from both Intraday and STCG – there is no need to pay tax as it is below the basic threshold limit of
2.5Lacs. Further, it is not mandatory to file ITR as it below threshold limit.
@Ankit – ITR is required to be filed only if the taxable income exceeds the basic exemption limit.
I am final year student who appeared as a intern in an organization starting from January 2020 for 3 months.
My total income in this period from stipend was 50,000.
I started trading in stocks in March 2020. In this month I was doing intraday trading.
My intraday profit was 1.11k while net short term profit is -4.44k.
Do I have to pay taxes as my net gain is below 2.5lkh?
I have 1 question
1) my source of income is less than 2.5 lakh from fd and there is not other source of income my f&o loss is 1.5 lakh and turnover in zerodha kite console showing 95 k and currency loss is 5 k turnover 45k ,equity loss 15 k and turnover 45 k do i need to tax audit or not
Hi
Do I need to pay tax on Net realised profit or
Gross profit (profit cutting brokerage+stt+stamp duty).
Please help me.
@Nitin @Zerodha E.g in an year through few trades one makes a loss of 3 Lakh via Intraday Equity & 1.5 Lakh via equity delivery.
Net result is -1.5 Lakh only, which is loss.
Then why one has to pay tax for the loss ? It isn’t capital gain right ?🤔
And secondly if it intraday equity loss doesn’t get adjusted in next year’s via intra Equity profit, one will have to pay tax for loss even after few years ? ☹️
* 1.5 lakh profit through equity delivery
Hi Abhishek,
In an year through few trades one makes a loss of 3 Lakh via Intraday Equity & 1.5 Lakh profit via equity delivery.
Net result is -1.5 Lakh only, which is loss.
Then why one has to pay tax for the loss? It isn’t capital gain right? Intraday equity gains are in the nature of speculative gains/losses. As per provisions of Income Tax – the same cannot be adjusted against Capital Gains. Speculative losses can be adjusted only against Speculative gains.
And secondly if it intraday equity loss doesn’t get adjusted in next year’s via intra Equity profit, one will have to pay tax for loss even after few years ? Yes, although net result is loss from aggregate of both Intraday and Equity delivery. One has to pay tax on equity (delivery) gains if it is more than basic exemption limit.
Hi Ram
Do I need to pay tax on Net realised profit or Gross profit (profit cutting brokerage+stt+stamp duty).
Excluding STT – you can claim brokerage and other expenses as deductions.
Hi Nit,
my source of income is less than 2.5 lakh from fd and there is not other source of income.
my f&o loss is 1.5 lakh and turnover in zerodha kite console showing 95 k and currency loss is 5k turnover 45k,
equity loss 15k and turnover 45k. Do i need to tax audit or not?
If you want to carry forward the losses of FNO and Currency – you need to go for audit.
Hello Nithin and the entire zerodha team,
Y’all are doing a great job!
I just have a query and this query is for 2020-21
From April 2020-Till date
I have turn over of 1.96Cr in F&O and loss of 3.07 lakh.
Will audit be applicable?
Read an article that said 2cr-5cr turnover no audit irrespective of profit and losses according to new budget.
If that’s the case, if I trade for few more days and end up with turn over of 2cr+ I’ll not be requiring audit?
I intend to stop trading for this year and join may be after an year or two after my higher education commitment..
So what’s the recommended way out and which ITR will I have to file for coming year?
I’m a salaried professional as of now
Regards,
Rahul
How do you declare you are trading as a business and to whom & when (procedure/forms, if any), if in the previous year you have been an investor and paying capital gains?
and what happens to the stock from previous year under Investment head? Can you treat it as opening stock for current year, where you have traded as business?
Pl help as even my CA cannot seem to answer these questions.
HI Sanjay Arora,
How do you declare you are trading as a business and to whom & when (procedure/forms, if any), if in the previous year you have been an investor and paying capital gains?
Use appropriate Form i.e ITR 3 and Select Code – 13010 – Investment Activities and declare it.
Go through to this circular https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
and what happens to the stock from previous year under Investment head? Can you treat it as opening stock for current year, where you have traded as business?
AA] You need to convert into Stock for which capital gains arises and shall be taxable in the year in which such converted stock is sold.
BB] Capital gain shall be Fair Market Value(FMV) on the date of conversion minus Actual cost. FMV on the date of conversion is very much relevant.
CC] Eg : Say only 50% of the converted stock in sold, then only 50% capital gains shall be taxable in the year in which CONVERTED STOCK is sold.
DD] CONVERTED STOCK’s Sale price minus FMV on the date of conversion shall be the Business Income.
Hope this helps. Please check with your CA!!
How to we pay the income tax return from the stock market and how to file itr sir
Hello Sir,
I am a salaried person and doing intraday and short term trading.
Intra-day/speculative turnover : 7553.00
Intra-day/Speculative profit : 3917.80 ( Profit:5734 – Loss:1811)
Short-term profit : 8791.80
Do I need to show speculative profit and loss separately or net amount. Also, Do i need an audit. If required , how to avoid.
Regards
Saurabh J
Hi Saurabh,
Intra-day/speculative turnover : 7553.00
Intra-day/Speculative profit : 3917.80 ( Profit:5734 – Loss:1811)
Short-term profit : 8791.80
You need to declare NET speculative profit and there is no need to Audit.
Sir,
Since 2015 doing trade in f&o and equity. loss 15lakh.i m not filing ITR for that but I paid my tax as per my salary
So how to file ITR for that and can i receive any refund from IT DEPARTMENT for loss of above.
Hi Dilip,
Your FNO Loss and Equity Loss cannot be set off against Salary Income Income owing to provisions of Income Tax.
You can carry forward the same and set off in future years when you have profit.
Since you are not filing Income tax returns – you cannot carry forward losses till FY 2018-19.
In intraday trading is turnover = (purchase + sale)*quantity
I m incurring losses but my turnover is greater than 5 crore.
Am I required to do tax audit.
Hi Saifuddin,
I m incurring losses but my turnover is greater than 5 crore.
Am I required to do tax audit.
Yes, tax audit is required.
Sir for 2019/20 my overall turn over Equity intraday and F&O is 72k and loss incurred is 20k, Quicko is charging 7k+gst to file ITR. Just to carry forward 20k loss I feel paying this much amount is huge for me. Can we file ITR by ourself
Hi Srinath Jayanna,
Yes, you can do it on your own.
Use ITR 3. Further you need to prepare PL Account and Balance Sheet in order to carry forward the losses.
Thanks Sandeep for the reply. And I am doing it for the First time if there are any supporting articles are videos for filing an ITR for traders will be helpfull if you provide the link.I will be thankful for it.
I am a salaried person with some interest income and equity long term and short term gains, I have been filling ITR 2 till last year but this time I incurred loss of around 3.5 lakhs while trading options, I believe to carry forward this loss I need to file ITR 3 this time. Overall turnover is less than 25 lakhs, Can I file ITR 3 on my own without any CA’s help as I have been filing ITR2 on my own till last year or do I need to get it approved by a CA?
Hi Nithin, Sandeep, Please suggest.
Dear Sir
Sir Mera turnover 1.5 crore show kar rah hai . Mujhe t 18-19 ka notice aaya hai . Mujhe 4 lakh ka loss hua hai kya karen. Please help Mo -9470212842
Hi Sagar,
I am a salaried person with some interest income and equity long term and short term gains, I have been filling ITR 2 till last year but this time I incurred loss of around 3.5 lakhs while trading options, I believe to carry forward this loss I need to file ITR 3 this time.
Yes, you can carry forward the loss by filing ITR-3
Overall turnover is less than 25 lakhs, Can I file ITR 3 on my own without any CA’s help as I have been filing ITR-2 on my own till last year or do I need to get it approved by a CA? Yes Sagar, you can file it on your own. I don’t think any approval is required from CA.
Hi,
I quit my job and taken trading as business from last Apr 2020. I am a option writer and on an average I earn about 1 L per month, so for this financial year I’m expecting my income from F&O to be 12 L, also I have rental income of 4 L per annum, how will be my taxation as I was an NRI, I didn’t file IT till now.
Hi Nithin,
As i understand you are an NRI, your FNO income of 12 Lacs will added to the rental income of 2.8Lacs and taxes will be paid as per the slabs applicable.
You can claim flat 30% deduction on rental income(hence rental income is 2.8lacs) for maintenance and other expenses etc.,
I assume you are getting rental income from the property in India.
Also, calculate turnover i.e aggregate of positive and negative differences to determine applicability of audit.
Slabs are as follows
upto 2.5Lacs there is no tax,
from 2.5Lacs to 5Lacs – 5%,
5Lacs to 10Lacs – 20%
greater than 10Lacs – 30%
Hi San
So Tax Audit 44AB by a CA is not required in my case? I can do this on my own?
Thanks
I have made Intraday Profit around (+) 2,000,00
I have ShortTerm Loss of around (-) 10,000,00
Can I set-off my Short-term loss against Intraday profit earned in current year and can I take remaining 8 lakh loss for adjusting in next year(s) upto 8 years as mentioned in article.
Please guide
Sir, if i am trading with my salary bank account .i.e demat is linked with salary account and I trade often as BTST, How i will be taxed because there are profit and losses that i havent calculated myself. An approx idea is of 1.5lakh profit and 10000 loss in last three months. How will this affect my income tax.
Hi Raghwendra Vatsa
I have made Intraday Profit around (+) 2 Lacs
I have Short Term Loss of around (-) 10 Lacs
Can I set-off my Short-term loss against Intraday profit earned in current year – No, you cannot set off Short Term Capital Loss with Intraday Profit or Speculative Profit. Short Term Capital Loss can be set off only with Short Term Capital Gains or Long Term Capital Gains.
Can I take remaining 8 lakh loss for adjusting in next year(s) upto 8 years as mentioned in article – You can carry forward loss of 10 Lacs for next 8 years.
Tarun Singh Karki,
Sir, if i am trading with my salary bank account .i.e demat is linked with salary account and I trade often as BTST, How i will be taxed because there are profit and losses that i havent calculated myself. An approx idea is of 1.5lakh profit and 10000 loss in last three months. How will this affect my income tax?
If entire Rs 1.5 Lacs and Rs 10K Loss(last 3 months) is from BTST – you need to set off and pay taxes on net BTST gains accordingly. It is your short term capital gains.
Hi Sagar,
So Tax Audit 44AB by a CA is not required in my case? I can do this on my own?
Yes no tax audit required and you can do on your own by filing ITR 3.
Your turnover is less than 1 Cr.
Usually, the settlement is said to be T+2. Now, if I buy a stock on Monday and sell it on Wednesday, how would that be treated? Will it be BTST? or short term capital gain? This is because the delivery might not have happened yet (may be by Wednesday morning), and it might be done end of Wednesday.
Can you please guide?
Hi Yateen,
Usually, the settlement is said to be T+2. Now, if I buy a stock on Monday and sell it on Wednesday, how would that be treated? Will it be BTST? or short term capital gain? This is because the delivery might not have happened yet (may be by Wednesday morning), and it might be done end of Wednesday.
Can you please guide?
Please check if DP charges are charged for the shares which you have sold – then it is STCG otherwise BTST.
Treatment of BTST:
There are both schools of thought, one which considers it to be speculative(Intraday Gains) because no delivery was taken. However, the second school says to consider it as non-speculative/STCG as the exchange itself charges the security transaction tax (STT) for BTST trades similar to regular delivery based trades.
A factor to consider is if such BTST trades are done just a few times in the year show it as STCG, but if done frequently it is best to show it as speculative business income(Intraday Gains).
Hope this helps.
Hi,
My question is on the scenario : ‘Tax Audit Requirements for Turnover less than 5 Cr and profit less than 6%’
I understand, there is no requirement of tax audit if income is less than 2.5 lacs. Is this strictly the income from trading ?
Wanted clarification if this income is including FD interests, Rental Income, Other Capital Gains etc.
Eg : My Trading Income is 2 lacs and FD Interest I earned is 1 lac. So my total taxable income becomes 3 lacs. Whether tax audit is required ?
Also, wanted clarification if the taxable income is Gross Income or Net Income ?
Eg : I have 3 lacs trading income. My expenditure for Mobile Bill, Internet, Electricity etc is 1 lac for the year. So my income after expenditure is only 2 lacs. Is Tax Audit applicable ?
Also, what if my income including dividend is more than 2.5 lacs ?
Eg : Income from Trading is 2 lacs, received dividend of 1 lac. Total taxable becomes 3 lacs. Is Tax Audit Applicable ?
Also one query is what if I contribute to NPS/Tax Saving Mutual Funds etc and post that my taxable income is less than 2.5 lacs despite having higher trading income of say 3 lacs. Is Tax Audit required ?
Eg : I have trading income of 3 lacs. I contributed 1 lac to NPS scheme. Now my taxable income is 2 lacs. Is Tax Audit Applicable ?
One final query is whether the taxable income is including STT etc or post deduction of STT etc ?
Thank you.
Regards.
In my last point regarding STT, what I meant was 2.5 lacs limit for Tax Audit is applicable including STT etc. or after Deduction of STT etc.
Hi Hari,
My question is on the scenario : ‘Tax Audit Requirements for Turnover less than 5 Cr and profit less than 6%’
I understand, there is no requirement of tax audit if income is less than 2.5 lacs. Is this strictly the income from trading ?
AA] No total income and this is particularly applicable in the below circumstance:
Suppose, if you had FNO Income for any previous years and you were declaring under presumptive scheme under section 44AD; (meaning currently you are in presumptive scheme upto FY 2019-20)
now if you are opting OUT of presumptive scheme in FY 2020-21 and your FNO Income is less than 6%(either in loss or profits less than 6%) but total income is greater than basic exemption limit(2.5Lacs), then Tax Audit is applicable.
BB] Also,there is NO AUDIT required if you are declaring under normal provisions(other than the presumptive taxation) in previous years and now turnover is less than threshold limit and declaring loss or profits even less than 6%.
Wanted clarification if this income is including FD interests, Rental Income, Other Capital Gains etc.
Eg 1 : My Trading Income is 2 lacs and FD Interest I earned is 1 lac. So my total taxable income becomes 3 lacs. Whether tax audit is required ?
Also, wanted clarification if the taxable income is Gross Income or Net Income ?
It is Net Taxable Income. As said above, tax audit depends whether you are opt out of presumptive scheme or not. Also you should consider the turnover.
If you are opting out of presumptive scheme in the current year – yes, applicable as Income is Rs 3 Lacs.
Eg 2 : I have 3 lacs trading income. My expenditure for Mobile Bill, Internet, Electricity etc is 1 lac for the year. So my income after expenditure is only 2 lacs. Is Tax Audit applicable ?
As said above, tax audit depends whether you are opt out of presumptive scheme or not.
If you are opting out of presumptive scheme in the current year – NOT applicable as Income is Rs 2 Lacs. Income is after considering your expenditure attributable ot F&O business.
Also, what if my income including dividend is more than 2.5 lacs ?
Yes applicable (if your are opting out of presumptive scheme) because income is greater than 2.5Lacs
Eg 3 : Income from Trading is 2 lacs, received dividend of 1 lac. Total taxable becomes 3 lacs. Is Tax Audit Applicable ?
Also one query is what if I contribute to NPS/Tax Saving Mutual Funds etc and post that my taxable income is less than 2.5 lacs despite having higher trading income of say 3 lacs. Is Tax Audit required ?
No – tax is paid is always after deductions. As per the provisions – it says audit is applicable if income exceeds max amount which is not chargeable to tax.
Have reproduced the provisions for your reference-
“Every person carrying on the business shall, if the provisions of sub-section (4) of section 44AD are applicable in his case and his income exceeds the maximum amount which is not chargeable to income-tax in any previous year,
get his accounts of such previous year audited by an accountant before the specified date and furnish by that date the report of such audit in the prescribed form duly signed and verified by such accountant and setting forth such particulars as may be prescribed”
Eg 4 : I have trading income of 3 lacs. I contributed 1 lac to NPS scheme. Now my taxable income is 2 lacs. Is Tax Audit Applicable ?
No – because as said above it is net income.
One final query is whether the taxable income is including STT etc or post deduction of STT etc ? STT can be claimed as expense when you are showing income as business income.
Hope this helps.
मैं एक छोटा ट्रेडर हूं अगर मुझे निवेश पर साल भर में 10,000 या 20000 का लाभ होता है तो क्या मुझे टेक्स्ट जमा करने की जरूरत है और मेरे लाभ है मैं से विरोधा ब्रोकर को भी 10 परसेंट देना होगा
कृपया कर मुझे जानकारी दें
Mo no 7999847309
हमने सारी जानकारी इस अध्याय में दी है आप इसको पूरा पड़ें।
Forwarded from AX-CMCPCI:
Dear Taxpayer, Income Tax Department has received information about high value transactions relating to SHRINIDHI (XXXXX4399X) for FY 2018-19. However, as per records available, ITR for AY 2019-20 has not been filed. Please file your ITR for AY 2019-20 or submit online response on above transaction at the earliest. You can view transaction details and submit online response under e-Campaign tab on Compliance Portal (https://compliance.insight.gov.in). The last date for filing of ITR has been extended to 30.11.2020 – ITD
I have received above msg from department , turnover is over 1CR . I want to deal it personally only online method can Zerodha or Quicko team sort me out ….
Hi Shrinidhi,
Check out https://zerodha.quicko.com/
Hello Sir ,
I have started trading /investing since May. And over the period since 5th May I have invested around 8.5 lakh rs in the market.I have also traded sometimes in between I also earned a profit of 77k in 3 months since May transferred 60 k into my account and reinvested the remaining. Do I have to pay advance tax? And I did it fulltime. How will be it taxable? I want to do it full-time for lifetime. Advise on how to maximize income through it and also the taxation.
Hi Hrishikesh Bansode,
I have started trading /investing since May. And over the period since 5th May I have invested around 8.5 lakh rs in the market.
I have also traded sometimes in between; I also earned a profit of 77k in 3 months since May transferred 60 k into my account and reinvested the remaining.
Do I have to pay advance tax? And I did it full-time. How will be it taxable? I want to do it full-time for lifetime. Advise on how to maximize income through it and also the taxation.
Short Term Capital Gains are taxed @ 15%.
Intraday Gains and FNO Gains are taxed as per applicable slabs rate.
With regards to Advance Tax, payment of advance tax arises when the tax liability is more than 10K.
Maximising income through full time trading is your personal choice. Can’t advise or comment on it.
Hi,
I am a working professional and do F&O trading part time.
For financial year 2018-19, I went for tax audit as Options turnover was shown 1.05 Crore and futures turnover is 6 lakhs (though I was in net loss)
For this financial year 2019-20, my turnover in Options is 99.41Lakhs and futures turnover is 8.78 L
Is tax audit required this year ? If it is not required, will my eligibility of previous loss carry forward for 8 years ( as F&O is treated as non-speculative business) still be applicable?
Please clarify.
Hi Devi
I am a working professional and do F&O trading part time.
For financial year 2018-19, I went for tax audit as Options turnover was shown 1.05 Crore and futures turnover is 6 lakhs (though I was in net loss)
For this financial year 2019-20, my turnover in Options is 99.41 Lakhs and futures turnover is 8.78 Lakhs
Is tax audit required this year ? If it is not required, will my eligibility of previous loss carry forward for 8 years ( as F&O is treated as non-speculative business) still be applicable?Please clarify.
Tax Audit is not applicable as turnover limit is less than the threshold limit of Rs 5 Crores. Please select the applicable fields in ITR-3 correctly under Audit Information before filing.
Also, please enter appropriate info under Schedule CFL regarding 1819 year losses.
Further,there won’t be any change in carry forwarding of losses. You will be able to carry forward the loss for set off in future years.
my salary is 5000 and
example :
i do option intraday trading every day…..
my daily capital in trading is 60 to 70 thousand…….
my total net profit is around 4 lakh yearly ….
so will i have to pay tax to government ???
Hi Dharmesh Chawda,
My salary is 5000 and
example :
I do option intraday trading every day…..
my daily capital in trading is 60 to 70 thousand…….
my total net profit is around 4 lakh yearly ….
so will i have to pay tax to government ???
There is no tax liability if your NET Salary Income and Intraday(Speculative Income) is less than or equal to Rs 5Lacs.
This is because you can claim the tax rebate under Section 87A upto Rs 12500/-.
Hi,
How does Currency & Commodity gains are treated for tax? is it same like Future & Options? Thanks in advance
Hi Abhi,
How does Currency & Commodity gains are treated for tax? is it same like Future & Options?
The gains from Currency & Commodity derivatives are taxable as Business Income.(like F&O). They are non-speculative.
If i am unsalaried person. And i am doing intraday trading and i earned 1000 crore(suppose *not real). How much tax do i have to pay?
Hi Arpit Bhande,
If i am unsalaried person. And i am doing intraday trading and i earned 1000 crore(suppose *not real). How much tax do i have to pay?
You have pay as per the slab rates, effectively on an average 42.74%
For tax rates refer this – https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Charts%20%20Tables/Tax%20rates.htm
I think so you have a typo error in 5.2 section Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
25000 should be 12500
Let’s say I have an intraday loss and I claim other charges (STT, phone bills etc.) to offset my loss such that after considering both my losses and claims of other charges I end up with a positive figure, then will this be now considered as profit since my claims over-offset my losses?
Hi Victor,
Let’s say I have an intraday loss and I claim other charges (STT, phone bills etc.) to offset my loss such that after considering both my losses and claims of other charges I end up with a positive figure, then will this be now considered as profit since my claims over-offset my losses?
Other charges – STT, phone bills etc., are expenses.
Claiming of such charges will add up to your losses. There is no picture of profit here.
sir i m a student and my income is less than 2.5k , my profit is 15.4k so do i need to pay stcg?
Hi Vatsal,
I’m a student and my income is less than 2.5k , my profit is 15.4k so do i need to pay tax on stcg?
No need to pay tax on STCG as your income is less than basic exemption limit.
Hi sir,
Could you please give me a brief about the following :
Trading started (September)
Income is taxable under Slab 0-250000
Took delivery of stocks and profit of about 15000 under 3 months
Intraday trading profit 4000 but with using margins
Do I need to pay any amount of tax and if yes what thing should I be careful about, I mentioned all the things which is known to my knowledge, I don’t know what is my turnover or any other thing can you give your answers and help me to get educated about this, thanks!.
Hi Shubham,
There is NO need to pay tax if your income is below the threshold limit of 2.5Lacs.
You will get the turnover details in PnL – Console.
Turnover is the sum of all positive and negative differences from all the transactions.
Pls have a check on your turnover on a regular basis.
Hi Please help in resolving my problem :
I am a student.
I have zero income from every source.
Last month my father deposited 5000 Rs in my account ,
I open account in angel broking from that and started intraday trading with margin provided by broker till now I am in a net loss of 1357 Rs,
And my intraday turnover is approx 5000,
While my total buy and sell value is around 370000.
But now I am leaving trading from now.
is it mandatory to file itr for above case.
Or should I worry about a notice from income tax in future.
Please reply, thanks in advance.
Hi Pramod Kushwah,
It is OPTIONAL in your case.
If you wish to carry forward the loss – Please file the return.
I think there is a printing mistake under 5.2 paragraph.
You have wrote “Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
Here instead of 10,000 I guess it should be 12,500
In section – 5.2 – Taxation of trading/business income
Should have been 12,500 instead of 25,000 ,then calculation is correct.
Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
What if my Intraday trading is all ended up in loss but my turnover ( buying price + Selling price) is above 5 crore. Do i need to file in IT and pay taxes?
Hi Shehinshad,
What if my Intraday trading is all ended up in loss but my turnover ( buying price + Selling price) is above 5 Crore. Do I need to file in IT and pay taxes?
In case of Intraday Trading, the Turnover equals Absolute Profit. Absolute Profit is the sum of all positive and negative differences from all the transactions. If such turnover is more than Rs 5 Crore; Tax Audit is applicable.
To carry forward the loss, you need to file Income Tax return.
There is no tax liability incase of losses.
SIR, I am having zerodha a/c. I want to know
1-If I do not want to carry loss, I have to consider 6% profit on my turnover. My turnover would be including all charges i,e,
STT/SERVICE TAX/STT/STAMP DUTY AND OTHER CHARGES,please clarify.
Thanks.
Sir, please let me know that in case of considering 6% profit on turnover, do i have to prepare Balance sheet/ P & L statement also.
As my TURNOVER is around 4 lacs . MY profit will come to 24000.
Can i use ITR 1.
Thanks.
HI Rajinder Seth,
AA] – If I do not want to carry loss, I have to consider 6% profit on my turnover. My turnover would be including all charges i,e, STT/SERVICE TAX/STT/STAMP DUTY AND OTHER CHARGES. please clarify.
NO it would be excluding all the charges.
BB] – In case of considering 6% profit on turnover, do I have to prepare Balance sheet and P & L statement also.
As my TURNOVER is around 4 Lacs . My profit will come to 24000. Can I use ITR 1?
You need to use ITR4. If you are using ITR4 – no need to declare BS and PL details; but you can prepare it for your reference.
Hello My Income From F&O trading Is 1 lakh Rs In AY 2020 , I have no other Income then F&O trading , Do I Have to pay Taxes On This Income Which Is 1 Lakh A Year.
Please Anyone Can Tell me.
Sir i have one more question incase i am having some share in unlisted company, still I can use ITR 4, incase not than I can use ITR 3
for considering 6% profit on my turnover.
Thanks.
I am swing trader and i don’t have any other income source, i want to make trading only as my main income. However all the profits that i have made are still in my trading account only and have never taken a withdrawal even once. Do i still need to file ITR ?
Please answer
Hi Vaibhav Bajaj,
I am swing trader and I don’t have any other income source, I want to make trading only as my main income. However all the profits that I have made are still in my trading account only and have never taken a withdrawal even once. Do I still need to file ITR ?
Yes, you need to file ITR if your gains are exceeding the basic exemption limit of Rs 2.5 Lacs; irrespective of whether you withdraw the profits or not.
Dear sir,
My salary is 2.95lkh p.a. and I occured a loss of 50000 in intraday and delivery trading.
In intraday my turnover is more than 10cr.
Should I have to pay tax?
If yes then which form?
Please guide me
Hi Ramsahay Meena,
My salary is 2.95lkh p.a. and I incurred a loss of 50000 in intraday and delivery trading.
In intraday = my turnover is more than 10cr.
Should I have to pay tax? – no need to pay tax as you have incurred losses. Use ITR-3 and carry forward the losses. It will be useful to you in future.
I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW THIS IS JUSTIFIED OR LOGICAL TO DO AUDIT, SPENDING MORE 10K WHEN A PERSON ALREADY FACED LOSS IN FNO…. PLEASE ANYBODY EXPLAIN
ME AND MY MOST OF THE FRIENDS ARE FEELING LIKE DOING FNO AND INTRADAY IS KIND OF USELESS AS WE ARE SMALL PLAYERS STRUGGLING FOR SMALL PROFITS ( EVEN FOR SMALL LOSSES OF LIKE 1500 WE NEED TO PAY 10K FOR AUDIT AT THE END OF YEAR…..)
seriously speaking
ZERODHA IS THE BEST PLATFORM I HAVE EVERSEEN
THANX ALOT FOR UR HARDWORK FOR MAKING THIS PLATFORM DAY BY DAY BETTER AND REPLYING TO ALL INVESTER QUERIES
First of all , all the articles are terrific.
But I have a little bit of different question.
Suppose my equity intraday loss is 14000 and equity delivery based (less than one year) profit is 20000.
How much tax I required to pay.
Hi Kousik Samanta,
Suppose my equity intraday loss is 14000 and equity delivery based (less than one year) profit is 20000.
How much tax I required to pay?
Intraday Loss is speculative loss. It can be set off only against Speculative Income.
Equity Delivery Based less than Short Term Capital Gains and for a gain of 20K – you need to pay flat 15% tax plus 4% cess. Rs 3120/- in your case.
Appreciate a quick help.
I have a question on Tax audit applicability. As in the chapter it is clearly mentioned about speculative income(loss) i.e. from intraday trading ; non- speculative income(loss) from F&O trading; my question whether there will be tax audit if the salary income is 8lks and speculative loss ( from intra day trading including BTST) is above 2 lks and capital gain -ve 1 lk and short term capital loss 1.5 lks. Now as per my understanding if turn over is less than 1cr tax audit is not applicable . But how to calculate turn for speculative income; will that the absolute profit ( only positive taken for loss and profit).
Kindly answer, this will be great help. Which ITR to filled in in this case– ITR3 ? Want to carry forward losses.
Hi Anupam,
Yes you need to file ITR-3.
Further declare Salary Income under Schedule S, Speculative Loss under Schedule PL, Capital Gains under Schedule CG(Short Term) and 112A(Long Term) as applicable.
Turnover for the speculative turnover will be ABSOLUTE Profit.(only positive taken for loss and profit)
Now when filing under Sec 44, I am keeping the shares only for a short duration, say few days to a few months. If any company declares dividend and I am holding that share at that time, how will the dividend be treated as now it is taxable? Will it be clubbed with the turnover or it will be shown separately as dividend and considered income? Say I get a total dividend of 90000 from shares held for short duration, so this 90000 will be treated as part of turnover or needs to be shown separately. Thanks.
can anybody tell,
how to consider shares bought and sold in short term on margin in DELIVERY for ITR3?
Hi Sanjay Mohan,
Now when filing under Sec 44, I am keeping the shares only for a short duration, say few days to a few months. If any company declares dividend and I am holding that share at that time, how will the dividend be treated as now it is taxable? Will it be clubbed with the turnover or it will be shown separately as dividend and considered income? Say I get a total dividend of 90000 from shares held for short duration, so this 90000 will be treated as part of turnover or needs to be shown separately.
Dividend won’t form part of the turnover. It is taxable separately as Income from other sources.
Hi Shaf,
How to consider shares bought and sold in short term on margin in DELIVERY for ITR-3?
Short Term Capital Gain is applicable for holding period over 1 day and not more than 12 months.
Such gains are taxable at flat rate of 15%.
You need to declare the same under Schedule CG.
If one is having capital gains ( short and long ) both and loss in F&O. Can he adjust capital gains with loss. If yes, both short term and long term or only short term or only long term.
Hi Rahul,
If one is having capital gains ( short and long ) both and loss in F&O. Can he adjust capital gains with loss. If yes, both short term and long term or only short term or only long term.
Loss in FNO can be adjusted all the income heads like capital gains, other sources, rental income , capital gains except salary.
Limit of crores is from Financial Year 2020-21 (Assessment Year 2021-22) and Not from Financial Year 2019-20 as mentioned in the article.
Please rectify the same.
Unable to find the provision where it says that if someone’s income is below Minimum Tax Slab doesn’t have to get Audit done.
Hi sir…my trading turnover is more than 5 cr but i incurred losses..i do not have any other income..i want to carry forward the losses..do i need to audit or can i submit without an audit
Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
Sir how did you calculates tax for 1200000
Sir 172500 + STCG tax 15000 should be =187500
How did we get 200000?
Hi Kiran,
my trading turnover is more than 5 cr but i incurred losses..i do not have any other income..i want to carry forward the losses..do i need to audit or can i submit without an audit?
Tax Audit is mandatorily applicable as your turnover is more than the threshold limit.
I have a Short Term Gain of Rs.32 Only, so do i need to pay the income tax on it?
Salary – 504000/- without deductions 2019-20 , IT computation sheet states i dont need to pay income tax , but i m very new to Shares And Trading so please guide me up.
I want to know more about advance tax. If I have investments both in Indian stock and US stock, then do I have to pay the cumulative tax in advance or only tax on Indian stock in advance but the tax on US stock at the end of the FY?
I want to know more about advance tax. If I have investments both in Indian stock and US stock, then do I have to pay the cumulative(profit from both Indian and US stock) tax in advance or only the tax on Indian stock in advance and the tax on US stock at the end of FY?.
Hi Subh Misra,
I have a Short Term Gain of Rs.32 Only, so do I need to pay the income tax on it?
Salary – 504000/- without deductions 2019-20 , IT computation sheet states I don’t need to pay income tax , but I’m very new to Shares And Trading so please guide me up.
Yes, there is no tax liability as your overall income after standard deduction on salary is less than 5 Lacs.
Your taxable salary is Rs 4.54Lacs (after standard deduction of 50K) and no need to pay tax on STCG of Rs 32/- as you get rebate on the same.
Hi Bhaskar,
I want to know more about advance tax. If I have investments both in Indian stock and US stock, then do I have to pay the cumulative tax in advance or only tax on Indian stock in advance but the tax on US stock at the end of the FY?
You need to pay advance tax on incomes earned from investments earned in India as well as US.
Further, you can also claim Foreign Tax Credit on taxes deducted or paid in US by submitting Form67 to the income tax department.
I have accumulated trading loss of 10 lakh in 2019-20, which I am showing as business loss (not short term capital loss). I also have income from rent and interest at 4 lakh. Can I carry forward the entire 10 lakh loss next year or the income for this year will be made nil first by set-off against the loss, and then only the remaining 6 lakh loss will be carried forward?
Following are my details:
2019-20
a) short term loss 12 lakh (turnover 97 lakh)
b) intraday loss 3 lakh (turnover 7lakh)
2020-21
a) short term profit 18 lakh (turnover 4.5 Cr)
b) intraday profit 1 lakh (turnover 4 lakh)
Can I show my short term losses and profits for both years as capital loss/gain and avail set-off, Or need to show them as business income/loss to take set-off.
The content is up to date. but when I download the same document in PDF format, it is not updated, it’s actually outdated to 2015. please update your PDF document.
Hi Sir,
Please help me for the below query.
I am in the tax slab of 30% bracket salaried.
I took loan of 25lakhs and transfered this money to my wife account.
From my wife’s dmat account did trading and made profit of 20 lakhs in derivatives.
Question
1) Do I need to pay tax for 20lakh earned by my wife.
2) does my wife account need to be audited.
While transfering money to my wife I am mentioning as Loan. So that she can use it for trading and return later.
I heard by someone saying that if money sent to spouse account earn any income from fixed deposit or any insurance funds will be taxable to me. But earning generated with effort are not taxable to me, but spouse has to pay tax for that income. Please throw pointers on this.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Deepak,
I have accumulated trading loss of 10 lakh in 2019-20, which I am showing as business loss (not short term capital loss). I also have income from rent and interest at 4 lakh. Can I carry forward the entire 10 lakh loss next year or the income for this year will be made nil first by set-off against the loss, and then only the remaining 6 lakh loss will be carried forward?
Rent and Interest income of Rs 4 Lacs will set off against the trading loss of Rs 10 Lacs and balance Rs 6 Lacs will be carried forward to next year.
Thanks.
The words used in the section 71(1) are as follows:
(1) Where in respect of any assessment year the net result of the computation under any head of income, other than “Capital gains”, is a loss and the assessee has no income under the head “Capital gains”, he shall, subject to the provisions of this Chapter, be entitled to have the amount of such loss set off against his income, if any, assessable for that assessment year under any other head.
It seems that the word entitled is not only an option but a compulsion as well !!
Setting off income from other sources with this year’s business losses in my case effectively means setting off an income on which any way I was not required to pay taxes. To carry forward loss of 6 lakhs, I must forgo the carry forward of 4 lakhs.
Thanks for clarification.
Hi Suresh,
2019-20
a) short term loss 12 lakh (turnover 97 lakh)
b) intraday loss 3 lakh (turnover 7lakh)
2020-21
a) short term profit 18 lakh (turnover 4.5 Cr)
b) intraday profit 1 lakh (turnover 4 lakh)
AA] Can I show my short term losses and profits for both years as capital loss/gain and avail set-off?
Yes, you can set off short term capital gains(Rs 18 Lacs) of 2020-21 against short term capital loss(Rs 12 Lacs) of 2019-20 and pay tax on the balance of Rs 6Lacs. Similarly, you can set off Intraday gain (Rs Lac) of 2020-21 against Intraday loss incurred in 2019-20 and carry forward the balance to subsequent years.
BB] Or need to show them as business income/loss to take set-off?
Since transactions of 2019-20 is already declared as short term capital loss and intraday loss; you cannot set off the short term capital loss of 12 Lacs by treating the income of Rs 18Lacs in 2020-21 as Business Income – because short term capital loss can be set off only against short term capital gain and long term capital gain.
हेलो सर itr कब भर सकते है एक example देकर बताये। क्या डेट होती है।
Thanks you for your reply. Can I avoid showing my profits in 2020-21 as business income. I was told that since the turnover is more than 5 Cr (short-term: 4.85 Cr, FNO: 27 lakhs, and intraday: 2.5 lakh), I cannot show the the profits as short-term capital gain. For this reason I was suggested to show the loss of 2019-20 as business loss and not as short-term capital loss, so that I can setoff loss next year.
If I can show the 2020-21 profits (obviously other than FnO and intraday) as short-term gain despite the turnover, then I will prefer to do the same for 2019-20.
Sir,
I paid salary TDS Rs.62,000/= In F&O loss (Rs.1.23 Lacs) and totally through trading I losses Rs.1.73 Lacs. Shall I get back the TDS Rs.62000/- by showing the above losses in my IT return. What is the procedure?.
Hi Vetriselvaa,
I paid salary TDS Rs.62,000/= In F&O loss (Rs.1.23 Lacs) and totally through trading I losses Rs.1.73 Lacs. Shall I get back the TDS Rs.62000/- by showing the above losses in my IT return. What is the procedure?
You cannot set off FNO losses with Salary Income. You cannot claim back TDS of 62K
Hi,
I had some intraday and F&O losses, and I initially filed an ITR-3. Later, I revised it to ITR-2 to avoid auditing next year. However, given the quantum of losses I felt it better to carry forward the losses and revised it again to ITR-3.
The IT department has sent a mail saying that they have processed the ITR-2 (1st revised return). They have not processed the original and 2nd revision. Will the the process the latest one as well (ITR-3 that I filed in second revision). I had filed the 2nd revised return before they sent mail of processing the ITR-2.
Will they process the latest submission automatically or I need to raise a grievance?
Thanks
In continuation to above query: Which return will be the finally applicable.
When we are considering the the BSTSs as Business income .. So say my gross buy is B and gross sell is S.. So profit is S-B=P
Can you please suggest the ITR3 P&L form where the S and B should go to(like should it be in “other Income”)?
Should I just fill out “Profit on sale of investment being securities chargeable to Securities Transaction Tax (STT)” with the profit P..
Any help would be much appreciated
Hi Swayam,
I had some intraday and F&O losses, and I initially filed an ITR-3. Later, I revised it to ITR-2 to avoid auditing next year. However, given the quantum of losses I felt it better to carry forward the losses and revised it again to ITR-3.
The IT department has sent a mail saying that they have processed the ITR-2 (1st revised return). They have not processed the original and 2nd revision. Will the process the latest one as well (ITR-3 that I filed in second revision). I had filed the 2nd revised return before they sent mail of processing the ITR-2.
Will they process the latest submission automatically or I need to raise a grievance?
Yes, department will process the latest revised return as well. You need to wait for some time. If not done in 45to60 days; then raise a grievance
ITR-3 is applicable for your as FNO losses.
Hi Sangi,
When we are considering the the BSTSs as Business income .. So say my gross buy is B and gross sell is S.. So profit is S-B=P
Can you please suggest the ITR3 P&L form where the S and B should go to(like should it be in “other Income”)?
Should I just fill out “Profit on sale of investment being securities chargeable to Securities Transaction Tax (STT)” with the profit P..
Fill sale and buy value of shares (BTSTs) in Schedule Trading Account and details of expenses in Schedule PL.
Thanks for your reply. They have also issued refund at this stage. In case the refund in the new ITR is different, how would that be adjusted.
Sir am an NRI and having a demat account in my wife name. She is a housewife and there is no source of income. What will be the tax implications on the stock trading. I have 3 lakhs in the market. My profit/loss is around 30k. Please advise.
Hi Swayam,
They have also issued refund at this stage. In case the refund in the new ITR is different, how would that be adjusted?
If refund assessed in revised return is more than the refund issued; Refund issued already will be adjusted and balance refund will be issued.
If refund assessed in revised return is less; you will be asked to pay the excess refund issued by way of demand order.
Hello Nitin,
I have an important query. I have only one account and in the same account I am doing equity investments as well as F&O trading. Can I consistently declare my equity investments as capital gains/ losses and F&O as business income. If I am consistent with the definition every year, then is there a problem?
Thank you.
Nithin,
Is it compulsory for a salaried employee who has intra-day trades, F&O trades as well as shares for portfolio (with realised profits from sale of shares within one year of acquiring them) to choose to be a trader (with business income) ?
HI Madhura,
I have only one account and in the same account I am doing equity investments as well as F&O trading. Can I consistently declare my equity investments as capital gains/ losses and F&O as business income. If I am consistent with the definition every year, then is there a problem?
With regards to declaring of stock investments as capital gains or as a business income (trading) – if you are consistent; then there is no issue.
More about this in these circular..https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/910110000000000316.htm
Hi Prasad,
Is it compulsory for a salaried employee who has intra-day trades, F&O trades as well as shares for portfolio (with realised profits from sale of shares within one year of acquiring them) to choose to be a trader (with business income) ?
Not necessary – but you need to be consistent. If you declare it as Business Income – continue the same for future years as well.
Please go through these circulars for better understanding…https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/910110000000000316.htm
https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
San says:
QUOTE
December 22, 2020 at 11:36 am
Hi Kousik Samanta,
Suppose my equity intraday loss is 14000 and equity delivery based (less than one year) profit is 20000.
How much tax I required to pay?
Intraday Loss is speculative loss. It can be set off only against Speculative Income.
Equity Delivery Based less than Short Term Capital Gains and for a gain of 20K – you need to pay flat 15% tax plus 4% cess. Rs 3120/- in your case.
UNQUOTE:
IN THIS CASE WHETHER THE TAX PAYER CAN CLAIM EXPENSES LIKE DP CHARGES, BROKERAGE, STT ETC AS EXPENSES AND REDUCE HIS STCG.
REGARDS
XAVIER
QUOTE
ARUN says:
August 12, 2016 at 11:22 am
I gave my CA as what you said (p&l of share trading), bank statement, brokerage ledger(contains details of bill with date). but he presist to maintain all books of accounts. like do journal for every transaction, main ledger accounts & then p& l account. i gave him the p&l statement of my broker which i think is fine. but he says it will be different from our angel. please help
Reply
Nithin Kamath says:
August 12, 2016 at 12:31 pm
Yeah, some CA’s might ask you for this.
Reply
sagar jaiswal says:
August 12, 2016 at 11:48 am
Hi sir
there is loss(negative) in mtm in toatal.But the turnover is exceeding one crore then what will be the tax implication
kindly help me
Reply
Nithin Kamath says:
August 12, 2016 at 12:31 pm
No taxes if there is a loss. You might have to get an audit done by your CA.
UNQUOTE:
WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD FOR AUDIT
REGARDS
XAVIER
Hi Xavier Thilagaraj,
AA] IN THIS CASE WHETHER THE TAX PAYER CAN CLAIM EXPENSES LIKE DP CHARGES, BROKERAGE, STT ETC AS EXPENSES AND REDUCE HIS STCG?
Except STT – you can claim other expenses against your STCG.
BB] WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD FOR AUDIT?
The threshold limit for audit is 5 Crores (in case when cash receipt and payment made during the year does not exceed 5% of total receipt or payments).
If cash payments or receipts exceeds 5% of total payments or receipts – then threshold limit is Rs 1 Crore.
Couple of questions regarding business expenses.
1. Can business expense also offset LTCG/STCG/Income other than Business income?
2. Can my business expense be more than my business income (eg – when my business income is very low or even negative) and can such an account be carried over to next year as loss of shorts, in accordance to rules separate rules set for speculative and non speculative business income?
Hi, I am a student and do trading. Do I have to pay tax if I earned 20,000 as profit?
Hi Apurva Gaurav,
Couple of questions regarding business expenses.
1. Can business expense also offset LTCG/STCG/Income other than Business income? – If business expenses are more than business income – it results in Business Loss. Such current business loss can be set off with all incomes like Rental Income, Capital Gains(STCG<CG) and Income from other sources like Interest Income except SALARY. Carried forward loss can be set off only against Business Income.
2. Can my business expense be more than my business income (eg: – when my business income is very low or even negative) and can such an account be carried over to next year as loss of shorts, in accordance to rules separate rules set for speculative and non speculative business income?
Yes, business expense can be more than your business income. Such business loss can be carried forward over a period of 8 years.
Hi Lakshya,
I am a student and do trading. Do I have to pay tax if I earned 20,000 as profit?
There is no tax liability upto Rs 2.5 Lacs. So, no need to pay tax.
Thanks! A further clarification. Should I use gross profit or net profit (net of STT, Tx tax, brokerage) to calculate presumptive income?
Sir
I have make Transection above 1 crore in financial year 18-19 in equity shares and my loss is arround 20 k further my income is below 2.5 lakhs .Shell I need to file ITR for this year before I never fill ITR because my income is less than taxable
Hi Mark D,
Should I use gross profit or net profit (net of STT, Tx tax, brokerage) to calculate presumptive income?
Consider gross profit to calculate income under presumptive scheme.
Dear Respected Sir,
Please Help Sir Meri Salary 5 Lacs Hai Or Mene 1 January se le kar 31 Dec 2020 tak sahre bazar se 14 lacs rs. ka profit hua hai to muje kitna tax dena padega please help kare meri mail id per toda paresan hu
Hi,
Meri Salary 5 Lacs Hai Or Mene 1 January se le kar 31 Dec 2020 tak sahre bazar se 14 lacs rs. ka profit hua hai to muje kitna tax dena padega please help kare meri mail id per toda paresan hu
First you need to consider gains earned upto 31st March 2020 separately and gains earned between 1st April and 31st December separately.
Business Income is taxed as per the applicable slab rates.
Capital Gains are taxed @ 15% if short term and 10% if long term for gains exceeding Rs 1 Lacs.
Hi,
If this is your first time reporting business income, is it true you are not liable to pay interest on delayed advance tax, as long as you pay all interest due before Mar31. Under 234c (1)
I invested Rs 5 lakh in option trading and if I get a profit of Rs 10 million, will I be able to withdraw the full Rs 10 million, will I have to pay tax or will my money be stuck after deducting TDS
Sir my income is around 20 lacs in this year from mcx inraday trading.sir mujhe kitna tax paid karna hoga.or tax kam karne ke liye kya kar sakte hain.sir mcx trading me income tax slab kya hai.plz reply me as soon as possible plz.
Hi Bhavana,
I invested Rs 5 lakh in option trading and if I get a profit of Rs 10 million, will I be able to withdraw the full Rs 10 million, will I have to pay tax or will my money be stuck after deducting TDS?
Yes you will be able to withdraw full 10 million. You need to pay tax on the profits earned. Onus to pay tax is on the individual. No TDS will be deducted at the time of withdrawal.
Hi Anand Singh,
My income is around 20 lacs in this year from mcx inraday trading.sir mujhe kitna tax paid karna hoga.or tax kam karne ke liye kya kar sakte hain.sir mcx trading me income tax slab kya hai.plz reply me as soon as possible plz.
You need to pay tax as per the applicable slab rates.
More about income tax slabs…https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/basics/ (Refer 2.3)
Hi Team Zerodha,
I understand that Tax Audit Limit is Increased to 10 crore as declared in the new Union Budget.
However, is section 44 AD also dealt away with ? (Turnover less than 5 crore but profit less than 6% of turnover)
So even if my turnover is less than 10 crore, but if my profit is less than 6% of my turnover, is tax audit applicable to me ?
Say my turnover is 4 crore and my profit is 8 lakhs. My profit is only 2%. In this case, is tax audit applicable ?
Grateful if you could clarify.
Regards,
In FY2020-21, I have salary income Rs 650000/- (inclusiveHRA) and STCG Rs 200000/-(in share trading),
Standard deduction in salary Rs 50000/-, Rebate in HRA Rs 77000/-, Deduction u/s 80C Rs 150000/-
Then what will be my tax liability. Please reply to my above given email id.
Hi HK,
I understand that Tax Audit Limit is Increased to 10 crore as declared in the new Union Budget – Yes, the limit is increased to Rs 10 Crore and is applicable from FY 2020-21.
However, is section 44 AD also dealt away with ? (Turnover less than 5 crore but profit less than 6% of turnover) – No, the limit of 44AD is still Rs 2 Crore.
So even if my turnover is less than 10 crore, but if my profit is less than 6% of my turnover, is tax audit applicable to me? No, Audit is not applicable.
Say my turnover is 4 crore and my profit is 8 lakhs. My profit is only 2%. In this case, is tax audit applicable ? No, Audit is not applicable.
Audit is not applicable if your turnover is less than the threshold limit of 10 crore (and even if your profit is less than 6% of the turnover.) However, audit is applicable in the below scenario:
Suppose, if you had FNO Income for any previous years and you were declaring under presumptive scheme under section 44AD; (meaning currently you are in presumptive scheme upto FY 2019-20).
now if you are opting OUT of presumptive scheme in FY 2020-21 and your FNO Income is less than 6%(meaning either in loss or in profits less than 6%) but total income is greater than basic exemption limit; then you have maintain books of accounts and get the AUDIT done [Tax Audit is applicable].
Hi Sham Lal,
In FY2020-21, I have salary income Rs 650000/- (inclusive-HRA) and STCG Rs 200000/-(in share trading),
Standard deduction in salary Rs 50000/-, Rebate in HRA Rs 77000/-, Deduction u/s 80C Rs 150000/-
Taxable Salary is 3,70,600/- [Rs 6.5 Lacs – Rs 50K(SD) – Rs 77K(HRA) – Rs 150K(80C) – Rs 2.4K(PT)
Tax on above Salary is 6,030/-
Taxable Gains is 2 Lacs
Tax on STCG is 30,000/- ( 2 Lacs * 15%)
Total Tax 36060/-
Cess 1441/-
Total Tax 37471/-
Guess TDS will be deducted in Salary.
Use this https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/pages/tools/income-tax-calculator.aspx for calculation of tax.
Dear Sir,
I Have the following query
1. 5 Crore T.O limit is for which F.Y – Some places mentioned 19-20 & Some places 20-21 (An audit is required if you have a business income and if your business turnover is more than Rs 5 crore for a financial year (from FY 20-21) – as you mentioned above).
2. Suppose my T.O is 2.10 Crore and P&L – 2.1 lack in F.Y 2019-20 and not opt for 44AD – 1. is I am liable to tax Audit 2. Required to file the return?
Thank you
Ravi
Hello ,
I have made profits of Rs 2 Lakh on F&O trading +
Equity based trading ( less than 1 year, not intraday).
I have also made losses to the tune of Rs 50 K in less than 1 year.
Can you please tell how my Income tax or Short term tax will come.
Hi Ravi,
Suppose my T.O is 2.10 Crore and P&L – 2.1 lack in F.Y 2019-20 and not opt for 44AD – 1. is I am liable to tax Audit 2. Required to file the return?
Audit is not applicable as the turnover is less than the threshold limit of 5 Crores.
Hi Sudeep K Anthony,
I have made profits of Rs 2 Lakh on F&O trading +
Equity based trading ( less than 1 year, not intraday). I have also made losses to the tune of Rs 50 K in less than 1 year.
Can you please tell how my Income tax or Short term tax will come?
Short Term Capital Losses can be set off against only Long Term Capital Gains and Short Term Capital Gains. 50K Short Term Capital Loss cannot be adjusted against FNO Income.
Since your FNO profits is less than Rs 2 Lacs – there is no tax payable. [upto 2.5 Lacs; there is no tax payable]
Hi sir my salary income around 480000 and i made profit in future option around 6.5 lkhs so i have to audited my account by ca or not?
SIR
I Want to know that i am from defence and my per annum salary is 700000 my tax gets deducted automatically every month and i only file ITR. I trade F&O and equity for less than year i make losses and profits this year i made 100000 profit and sometimes i make 30-40k profits in some months. Can you tell me and make me understand about my trading taxes.Do i need to pay or let it go.
Hi San,
Thanks for the reply on my query. But still, am not clear.
Section 44AD’s applicability is based only on FNO income ? STCG,LTCG is not taken ?
Say let me explain by an example,
I have filed losses worth 8 lac, in last 5 years. But FNO portion is very less, it is mostly short term capital loss or long term capital loss.
Now this year my profit is 16 lacs on 6 crore turn over (2.6% profit on turnover). This is mostly (95 %) STCG and LTCG.
I was planning to set off 16 lacs profit against 8 lac loss filed in previous years (again this is not FNO). Now my taxable income is 8 lacs (after setting off losses) for the year.
Now since my profit % is only 2.6% and less than 6% as prescribed under Section 44AD, is tax audit applicable ?
Hi Pcpatel,
My salary income around 480000 and I made profit in future option around 6.5 lkhs so I have to audited my account by ca or not?
Audit applicability depends on the turnover;
Futures Turnover = Absolute Profit (sum of profit and loss made on various transactions throughout the year)
The turnover of options can be calculated by adding the premium obtained on selling the options to the absolute profit.
Options Turnover = Absolute Profit + Premium obtained on selling the options.
More about turnover…..https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/turnover-balance-sheet-and-pl
Hi Pankaj Prashar,
I am from defence and my per annum salary is 700000 my tax gets deducted automatically every month and I only file ITR. I trade F&O and equity for less than year I make losses and profits this year I made 100000 profit and sometimes I make 30-40k profits in some months. Can you tell me and make me understand about my trading taxes. Do I need to pay or let it go.
You will fall under the taxable limit and you need to mandatorily file the income tax return.
You need to include the gains(equity and FNO) earned with the salary income and pay tax accordingly.
Short Term Capital Gains (STCG – less than 1 year) is taxed @ 15%.
LTCG exceeding (more than 1 year) is taxed @ 10%. Upto Rs 1 Lacs is exempt.
FNO Gains are taxed as applicable slabs. (More about slabs..https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/basics)
Hi HK,
Section 44AD’s applicability is based only on FNO income ? STCG,LTCG is not taken ?
Say let me explain by an example,
I have filed losses worth 8 lac, in last 5 years. But FNO portion is very less, it is mostly short term capital loss or long term capital loss.
Now this year my profit is 16 lacs on 6 crore turn over (2.6% profit on turnover). This is mostly (95 %) STCG and LTCG.
I was planning to set off 16 lacs profit against 8 lac loss filed in previous years (again this is not FNO). Now my taxable income is 8 lacs (after setting off losses) for the year.
Now since my profit % is only 2.6% and less than 6% as prescribed under Section 44AD, is tax audit applicable?
As per Income Tax provisions, you can set off current year business loss against all incomes except Salary. Brought forward Business loss can be set off against only Business Income. Short Term Capital Loss can be set off against STCG and LTCG. (Both current year and brought forward)
Based on the above, you can set off the capital gains against the losses brought forward this year.
44AD is applicable only on Business Income [FNO]. Majority of your gains is Capital Gains – hence tax audit is applicable.
So that means if (capital gains + FNO income) is less than 6 % of turnover (over 2 crore), tax audit is applicable ?
Hi HK,
If (capital gains + FNO income) is less than 6 % of turnover (over 2 crore), tax audit is applicable?
AA] Capital Gains & Turnover of Capital Gains transaction is not considered for determining the tax audit.
BB] Only FNO Income & turnover should be considered for determining the tax audit.
Salary income is zero.Speculative and non speculative income is 200000. Loss in stcg and ltcg. Whether audit is required?
Hi Shobha,
Salary income is zero. Speculative and non speculative income is 200000. Loss in stcg and ltcg. Whether audit is required?
Audit is applicable based on the turnover. Pls check the turnover.
Salary income zero. Intraday and fno income 200000.
Loss in stcg and ltcg. Whether audit is required?
Is it required to pay tax on unrealised FnO gains or is it allowed to claim unrealised FnO losses?
Hi RD Patel,
Is it required to pay tax on unrealised FnO gains or is it allowed to claim unrealised FnO losses?
No need to pay tax on unrealised FNO Gains.
Similarly, you cannot claim unrealised FNO Losses.
ಸರ್ ನಮಸ್ಕಾರ.
ನಾನು ನಿಮ್ಮ client.. FK9806@zerodha.
ನಾನು ಪಿಂಚಣಿದಾರ. ಪಿಂಚಣಿ +ಬಡ್ಡಿ ಆದಾಯ ಇದೆ. ಏನಿದ್ದರೂ ಐದು ಲಕ್ಷದೊಳಗೆ. ನನ್ನದು equity trading /CNC. ಮಾತ್ರ. ಈಗ ಸಿಗುವ
ಲಾಭವನ್ನು short term capital gain for which I have to pay 15% taxಅಥವ business gain for which slab rate applies… ಯಾವುದನ್ನು ಆಯ್ಕೆ ಮಾಡಬಹುದು?
After retirement since 2 years tax ಕಟ್ಟುತ್ತಿಲ್ಲ. ದಯವಿಟ್ಟು ಪರಿಹಾರ ತಿಳಿಸಿ.
Hi P Suresh Sir,
ನಾನು ಪಿಂಚಣಿದಾರ. ಪಿಂಚಣಿ +ಬಡ್ಡಿ ಆದಾಯ ಇದೆ. ಏನಿದ್ದರೂ ಐದು ಲಕ್ಷದೊಳಗೆ. ನನ್ನದು equity trading /CNC. ಮಾತ್ರ. ಈಗ ಸಿಗುವ
ಲಾಭವನ್ನು short term capital gain for which I have to pay 15% taxಅಥವ business gain for which slab rate applies… ಯಾವುದನ್ನು ಆಯ್ಕೆ ಮಾಡಬಹುದು?
After retirement since 2 years tax ಕಟ್ಟುತ್ತಿಲ್ಲ. ದಯವಿಟ್ಟು ಪರಿಹಾರ ತಿಳಿಸಿ.
Capital Gains are taxed based on period of holding. If period of holding is more than 1 year – it is Long Term Capital Gain otherwise it will be STCG.
LTCG exceeding Rs 1 Lacs are taxed @ 10%. STCG are taxed @ 15%. If gains are treated as Business Income – you need to pay as per applicable slabs.
If your treating it as STCG – you cannot claim STT as expense.
When you it as Business – you can claim STT as expense.
Once you opt, you cannot change frequently. Please go through this circular https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
I have salary income, short term capital gain and Loss from F&O. Since this is the first year that I have traded in F&O ,do I need to get only the F& O audited or all the three components above. I have been filing I Tax myself for the last ten years.
Hi Amarjeet,
I have salary income, short term capital gain and Loss from F&O. Since this is the first year that I have traded in F&O ,do I need to get only the F& O audited or all the three components above.
Audit is applicable on Business(FNO) Income. It is not applicable on STCG and Salary Income.
Further, Audit is applicable if your turnover crosses the threshold limit of 10 Crores for FY 2020-21.
Please explain if Net Realized Profit is the profit we earn after all the charges and brokerage.
For example if I started my trading from September 2020 and if my Net Realized Profit in reports from September to today is Rs50k. Will that full Rs50k be added to my account.
Thanks.
HI Uma,
Please explain if Net Realized Profit is the profit we earn after all the charges and brokerage.
For example if I started my trading from September 2020 and if my Net Realized Profit in reports from September to today is Rs50k. Will that full Rs50k be added to my account.
Yes, only realized gains are added to Demat account.
Can I get the P&L statement from my broker for fy 20-21
Hi Avinash,
Can I get the P&L statement from my broker for fy 20-21?
Every broker shall provide P&L statement. If you are a Zerodha user – You can download in console https://console.zerodha.com/
I have certain open positions for April 2021 futures, which I plan to square off in April only. In case there is a profit on those position, will that be counted for tax return of FY 21 or FY 22. The position are in profit currently, and may remain in profit as on March 31st.
Thanks
HI Suresh,
I have certain open positions for April 2021 futures, which I plan to square off in April only. In case there is a profit on those position, will that be counted for tax return of FY 21 or FY 22. The position are in profit currently, and may remain in profit as on March 31st.
Unrealised profit/loss as on 31st March 2021 should not be counted for FY 2020-21.
Since you are planning to close the position in April 21 – it falls under for FY 2021-22.
hi
I am a PSU employee insurance I am into trading mostly Btst will it affect my employment. I am paying under income tax slab
HI Shabana Ismail,
I am a PSU employee insurance I am into trading mostly Btst will it affect my employment. I am paying under income tax slab.
No Government servant shall speculate in any stock, share or other investment.
The above rule shall not apply to occasional investments made through stockbrokers or other persons duly authorized and licensed or who have obtained a certificate of registration under the relevant law.
Refer this…https://dopt.gov.in/sites/default/files/CCS_Conduct_Rules_1964_Updated_27Feb15_0.pdf
Hi Sir, Please help me out with my query:
Salary income: 2.7 L
Equity Intraday Loss: -18.3 k
Turnover (27.7 k), Total charges(7.7 k).
STCG:
Number of Trades: 6 transaction.
Realised profit: 16.4 k
Total turnover(sell value): 3.72 L.
Basically now I am in loss of approx 10k in stock market from above transactions.
Please let me know do I need to go for Audit as I couldn’t show min 6%/8% profit?
If yes.. To avoid audit, can I invest arround 30k in PPF so that my total income will fall under 2.5L?
Please suggest accordingly, Thank you!
Hi Arun,
Salary income: 2.7 L
Equity Intraday Loss: -18.3 k
Turnover (27.7 k)
STCG Realised profit: 16.4 k
Total turnover(sell value): 3.72 L.
Basically now I am in loss of approx 10k in stock market from above transactions.
Please let me know do I need to go for Audit as I couldn’t show min 6%/8% profit?
If yes.. To avoid audit, can I invest around 30k in PPF so that my total income will fall under 2.5L?
There is no requirement of Audit as your turnover is less than the threshold limit.
The condition of minimum 6% applies when you were in presumptive taxation scheme in the previous year.
Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
please rectify this calculation
I started trading in FY 20 for the first time, and made intra-day and short term capital losses (FY 2020). I filed ITR-3 showing both these losses as business loss (speculative and non-speculative) so that they can be carried forward for set-off. ITR is yet to be processed. This year (FY 21) I have made profits on both these segments (intra-day and short-term) which exceeds the losses last year. This year I also started F&O trading where made some profits.
a) Should I again show all profits as business income and go for ITR-3.
b) Also, in case of business income, do I need to pay advance tax? This is the first ever time I have made profits. I read somewhere that for the first time business profit, advance tax is not required. Kindly clarify.
Dear sir
I am govt employee with annual salary of 14 lakh with monthly tds paying tax around 1.5 lakh yearly and submitting itr-1.
I started with zerodha and hold share for more than 3 to 6 months.I understand long term and short term gain. I am selling share on 20th march and will submit stcg tax 15% by challan. Should I can do it in itr-1. Or I have to submit itr3
Hi Suresh,
I started trading in FY 20 for the first time, and made intra-day and short term capital losses (FY 2020). I filed ITR-3 showing both these losses as business loss (speculative and non-speculative) so that they can be carried forward for set-off. ITR is yet to be processed. This year (FY 21) I have made profits on both these segments (intra-day and short-term) which exceeds the losses last year. This year I also started F&O trading where made some profits.
AA] Should I again show all profits as business income and go for ITR-3 – Since you have already shown Short Term Capital Losses as Business Losses; you need to continue the same.
Also, assume you have declare Intraday Losses as speculative losses separately and not as regular business Income.
Yes, you need to use ITR-3 in the current year as you have FNO profits.
BB] Also, in case of business income, do I need to pay advance tax? This is the first ever time I have made profits. I read somewhere that for the first time business profit, advance tax is not required. Kindly clarify.
Yes, in case of business income – you need to pay advance tax if your estimated tax liability is more than Rs 10K.
You need to pay advance tax on an installment basis every quarter ( 15% of tax liability before 15th June; 45% before 15th Sep; 75% before 15th Dec and 100% before 15th March)
If advance tax is not paid or is paid less than estimated tax liability; then Interest shall be levied under Section 234B and C.
If you are paying tax on business income for first time – you were suppose to pay advance tax and you have not paid; then interest only under Section 234B applies and there is not interest under 234C.
HI Anil S Negi,
I am govt employee with annual salary of 14 lakh with monthly tds paying tax around 1.5 lakh yearly and submitting itr-1.
I started with zerodha and hold share for more than 3 to 6 months.I understand long term and short term gain. I am selling share on 20th march and will submit stcg tax 15% by challan. Should I can do it in itr-1. Or I have to submit itr3
You need to file ITR-2. Declare Salary Income under Schedule S and Short Term Capital Gains under Schedule CG and Long Term Capital Gain under 112A.
I WISH TO HEARTILY COMPLIMENT THE AUTHOR OF THIS REPORT. HE HAS VERY CLEARLY AND STEP BY STEP EXPLAINED THE NUANCES OF TAXATION FOR TRADERS. I HAVE EXTENSIVELY SOUGHT INFORMATION FROM THE INTERNET AND THERE IS NO PLACE…………… NO PLACE OR INFORMATION WHICH IS AS CLEAR AS THIS REPORT.
KUDOS TO ZERODHA AND ITS FOUNDER………………. GREAT SERVICE. !!!. I DISCOVERED YOUR BROKERAGE ONLY IN JULY AND AM NOW YOUR CLIENT. I SUFFERRED MISERABLY FOR 12 YEARS FROM 2008 TILL 2020 WITH A SO CALLED REPUTED BROKERAGE WHO FURNISH ONLY WRONG AND UNTALLIED REPORTS.
GREAT WORK. ZERODHA – PL KEEP THIS UP FOR ALL TIMES TO COME.
A GRATEFUL CLIENT.
Thanks for the kind words, credit goes to Nithin Kamath 🙂
Hello all,
I am new in this share market and also a small investor/trader, what I am doing is I apply for an IPO when I got allotment thn I sale and withdraw the amount to my bank account and again apply for new IPO. I also started filling IT returns from last 2 years. As per your opinion what will taxable situation for me.
Thanks with regards
Hi Gaurav Gupta,
If shares allotted through IPO are sold for profit/listing gains on the listing date – it will treat as Short Term Capital Gains.
Tax applicable on STCG is 15%.
I am declaring the short term capital income as business income. I heard that one can keep trading stocks separate from investment (capital gain) portfolio.
Can I keep in one same demat/trading account of zerodha both these types of stocks (business income vs capital gain). Also, if I sell stocks held in the same account for more than 1 year, can I declare that as LTCG or have to declare this too as business income.
Thanks
Hi,
I have a query regarding intra-day trade in F&O. Will it be counted as speculation and clubbed with intraday trade in equity. Or it will be clubbed with usual F&O.
Also, presume following: I bought an future lot yesterday at 500, sold it today at 540, and bought it again today at 525.
Will the profit booked be Rs 40 (540-500) or it will be a realized profit of 15 (540-525) and unrealized profit of 25 (525-500).
Thanks
@nitin – How is the turnover calculated in futures trading. Will the sell amount be also considered in the turnover like it gets considered in options trading? Also, I believe no audit will be needes if I do only futures trading and my turnover is less than 2 crores but profit is more than 6% of the turnover. Please confirm my understanding.
Hi Swayam,
A] I have a query regarding intra-day trade in F&O. Will it be counted as speculation and clubbed with intraday trade in equity. Or it will be clubbed with usual F&O.
B] Also, presume following: I bought an future lot yesterday at 500, sold it today at 540, and bought it again today at 525.
Will the profit booked be Rs 40 (540-500) or it will be a realized profit of 15 (540-525) and unrealized profit of 25 (525-500).
A] FNO will be treated as always Business irrespective of being a intraday transaction. It should be clubbed with usual F&O.
B] Going by FIFO basis – profit booked will be Rs 40.
Hi Mangesh,
How is the turnover calculated in futures trading. Will the sell amount be also considered in the turnover like it gets considered in options trading? Also, I believe no audit will be needed if I do only futures trading and my turnover is less than 2 crores but profit is more than 6% of the turnover. Please confirm my understanding.
Turnover in Futures trading will be only absolute profit. And sell amount (sell value of futures) will not be considered.
Yes, if your turnover is less than Rs 2 Crores; you can opt for presumptive taxation scheme (Section 44AD) and declare 6% profit of the turnover as your income and pay tax accordingly.
Also, once you opt out of Section 44AD – presumptive taxation scheme; you cannot opt for that scheme for next 5 years.
Sir, If am not a salary man ie i dont do job, i am just a part time trader. Thus my income is only the profits that i make in a year. What about that?. Pls help. thank you
Hi,
I am declaring the short term capital income as business income. I heard that one can keep trading stocks separate from investment (capital gain) portfolio.
Can I keep in one same demat/trading account of zerodha both these types of stocks (business income vs capital gain). Also, if I sell stocks held in the same account for more than 1 year, can I declare that as LTCG or have to declare this too as business income.
Thanks
Hi Yash,
Sir, If am not a salary man i.e i don’t do job, i am just a part time trader. Thus my income is only the profits that i make in a year. What about that?. Pls help.
Your income will be net profits made in the year. STCG will be taxable at 15% plus 4% cess. FNO and Intraday gains shall be taxable as per the applicable slab rates. Refer chapter 2 for slab rates…
Hi Suresh,
I am declaring the short term capital income as business income. I heard that one can keep trading stocks separate from investment (capital gain) portfolio.
A] Can I keep in one same demat/trading account of zerodha both these types of stocks (business income vs capital gain).
It is better to have two different demats/portfolios for Capital Gains and Business Income(where STCG are declared as Business Income).
B] Also, if I sell stocks held in the same account for more than 1 year, can I declare that as LTCG or have to declare this too as business income.
It is one’s discretion. Once you declare LTCG as Business Income – you need to continue the same in subsequent years as well.
Please go through this circular..https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
Thanks for clarification and the link. A few more queries in this regard:
a) Can I have two zerodha accounts on my name to keep one for portfolio and other for business income
b) So far I haven’t sold any shares with more than one year holding period. So I am sensing from your response, that for my existing demat account, anything sold for less than one year need to be considered as business income, but anything sold after more than one year holding period can be considered as LTCG (and same treatment need to be continued).
Request for clarification/confirmation.
I am a salaried person . I have loss of 4 lac in F&O and turnover 13cr. (buy and sell) my profit in equity delivery short term 1.9 lac and unrealised loss 45 thousand . Whether I have to do audit and to pay tax.
Hi Harsh Malhotra,
I am a salaried person . I have loss of 4 lac in F&O and turnover 13cr. (buy and sell) my profit in equity delivery short term 1.90 lacs and unrealised loss 45 thousand . Whether I have to do audit and to pay tax?
Since the turnover is more than the threshold limit – audit is applicable.
No need to pay tax; as you have incurred loss.
Can I opt for presumptive scheme and show profit equal to 6% of turnover, pay tax on it and continue it for next 3 years and more ? (even if my actual profit is more). I don’t fall under Audit requirement though have turnover of approx 1.5 Cr.
Sir
Please tell me I m trading equity delivery based sort term & earn profit 250000 .& I have no other income. Which amount pay tax
if i have traded only futures and options throughout the year and I have no other source of income then what is the tax rate that if applicable? suppose i made Rs. 25 lacs trading only futures and options throughout the year then how much tax should I pay?
Hi Sumit,
Can I opt for presumptive scheme and show profit equal to 6% of turnover, pay tax on it and continue it for next 3 years and more ? (even if my actual profit is more). I don’t fall under Audit requirement though have turnover of approx 1.5 Cr?
Yes, you can opt for presumptive taxation scheme and declare 6% as profits and pay tax accordingly.
Hi Surender Singh,
Please tell me I m trading equity delivery based sort term & earn profit 250000 .& I have no other income. Which amount pay tax?
There is no tax liability if your total income is less than Rs 2.5 Lacs.
You can calculate the tax using this tax calculator..https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/pages/tools/income-tax-calculator.aspx
HI Trader,
if i have traded only futures and options throughout the year and I have no other source of income then what is the tax rate that if applicable? suppose i made Rs. 25 lacs trading only futures and options throughout the year then how much tax should I pay?
Profits from Futures and Options are taxed as Business Income. It is taxable as per the applicable slabs.
More about slabs is in Chapter 1.
I am a salaried person , i have incurred a intraday loss of 13.5k in FY20-21 , & my total intraday turnover is 16.6k , is it mandatory to file ITR and show my intraday losses
Is there any problem if my actual profit is more? There should not come any IT notice since this presumptive scheme is advocated by government itself?
Please reply in continuation to my initial query thread dated 24th March 1:40 am.
I made short term and long term loss last year and had filled it in my ITR. Can I offset the same by my income through F&O in this financial year?
31st Mar 2021 fno trades p&l will be considered in which year current or next year.
Sir
I am Loss 2.9 lakh rupees in this fy. Through delivery intraday and f&o. Where can i file itr and last date of file itr
Hi Vishnuprasad,
I am a salaried person , i have incurred a intraday loss of 13.5k in FY20-21 , & my total intraday turnover is 16.6k , is it mandatory to file ITR and show my intraday losses?
Yes, it is necessary to report intraday trading losses for income tax. If your salary income is more than 2.5 Lacs – it is mandatory to file ITR.
Intraday trading is considered a speculative activity should be reported as business income for income tax purpose.
Is there any problem if my actual profit is more but I declare less profit under presumptive scheme? There should not come any IT notice since this presumptive scheme is advocated by government itself? Tax audit is not applicable since my turnover is less than 5 Cr.
Please reply in continuation to my initial query thread dated 24th March 1:40 am.
Hi Sumit,
Is there any problem if my actual profit is more but I declare less profit under presumptive scheme? There should not come any IT notice since this presumptive scheme is advocated by government itself? Tax audit is not applicable since my turnover is less than 5 Cr.
There is no problem – you can declare profit under presumptive scheme, but your turnover should be less than 2 Crore.
This scheme was introduced to help small businesses to reduce compliance cost.
Hello sir,
Iam in 5% tax slab salried but i show my pf deductions and other deductions and i dont pay any tax as my exemptions are higher based on my company. Still I have to pay tax for my intraday equity gains with 15%tax?
Hi Gokulnath Rao S,
Iam in 5% tax slab salried but i show my pf deductions and other deductions and i dont pay any tax as my exemptions are higher based on my company. Still I have to pay tax for my intraday equity gains with 15%tax?
Intraday gains are taxed as per the applicable slab rates. Short Term Capital Gains are taxed @ 15%.
If your overall income including intraday and short term capital gains – you will get a rebate of 12500 or tax liability whichever is lower.
Thank you for the enlightening article.
One of my question is unanswered.
If I buy in delivery 100shares of X company on Y date at mkt price ₹200/share.
If market goes down and I buy 100more shares at ₹100/share on another day.
Now the avg is ₹150/share.
After averaging if I sell 100 shares at market price ₹149/share which is at loss and therefore no short term gain tax.
Now, if I sell rest shares(100) at market price of ₹148/share then I am still at loss with avg share price of ₹150/share.
Will this entitle me to pay short term gain tax as by first in first out basis gains should be calculated from ₹100/share and not average price?
Also suggest method to tackle this problem.
Thank you.
In this case there is no profit from trading ,but having interest income of less than Rs.1,50000/.Whether any tax return is to be filed
I have a profit on short term and paid different tax like STT and other charges like settlement charges then from the profit these charges can be reduced while filing the tax like profit is 4 lakh and total charges are 20k then can we show the profit of 3.8lakh .
Hi Shaurya,
If I buy in delivery 100shares of X company on Y date at mkt price ₹200/share.
If market goes down and I buy 100more shares at ₹100/share on another day.
Now the avg is ₹150/share.
After averaging if I sell 100 shares at market price ₹149/share which is at loss and therefore no short term gain tax.
Now, if I sell rest shares(100) at market price of ₹148/share then I am still at loss with avg share price of ₹150/share.
Will this entitle me to pay short term gain tax as by first in first out basis gains should be calculated from ₹100/share and not average price?
Also suggest method to tackle this problem.
When you sell 100 shares at market price of ₹149 – you will incur loss of ₹51 per share and there is no STCG
Next, When you sell 100 shares at market price of ₹148 – you will earn profit of ₹48 per share and there will be STCG payable.
However, you can set off loss incurred earlier of ₹51 per share with profit earned ₹48 per share.
Hi Ittaman,
In this case there is no profit from trading ,but having interest income of less than Rs.1,50000/.Whether any tax return is to be filed
It is optional if your overall income is less than 2.5 Lacs.
Hi A Garhwal,
I have a profit on short term and paid different tax like STT and other charges like settlement charges then from the profit these charges can be reduced while filing the tax like profit is 4 lakh and total charges are 20k then can we show the profit of 3.8lakh.
Apart from STT paid – you can claim all the expenses attributable to sale and purchase of shares.
Hi,
I have a few queries since I have both Intraday and Option loss (turnover less than 30 lakhs , so need to audit)
1. Can some part of non-speculative profit(after loss offset) be declared as STCG to save tax incase of 20% tax slab
2.If I declare my capital gains as business income, will LTCG attract tax as per slab or is there a way to declare LTCG alone as investment and STCG as Business income?
Hi Pravesh,
I have a few queries since I have both Intraday and Option loss (turnover less than 30 lakhs , so need to audit) – Tax Audit is applicable when you turnover crosses the threshold limit; In your case, it is less than the threshold limit and if you have not opted for presumptive taxation in the previous year – Audit is not applicable for you.
A] Can some part of non-speculative profit(after loss offset) be declared as STCG to save tax incase of 20% tax slab = Option Loss is a business loss; you can set off the current year business loss with all other heads of income except salary.
Further, once you declare delivery based non speculative profit as STCG – you need to maintain consistency and declare the same as STCG in future years as well.
B] If I declare my capital gains as business income, will LTCG attract tax as per slab or is there a way to declare LTCG alone as investment and STCG as Business income?
As said above, you need to maintain consistency – all delivery based trades should be treated either as Business Income or Capital Gains.
You can declare the LTCG as Cap gains and STCG as Business Income – but you need to justify the same. More about this in this circular…
https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
1.”Tax Audit is applicable when you turnover crosses the threshold limit; In your case, it is less than the threshold limit and if you have not opted for presumptive taxation in the previous year – Audit is not applicable for you.” -> The turn over is less than 5 crores and the profit is less than 6 % ( loss) so I need an audit right?
2.Is it possible to set off option losses with STCG or LTCG?
Also could you please tell me what is the threshold limit?
i am a short term trader having profit less than 2.5lkh but this my only source of income.How much i need to pay tax ?
Hi Pravesh Agarwal,
AA] Tax Audit is applicable when you turnover crosses the threshold limit; In your case, it is less than the threshold limit and if you have not opted for presumptive taxation in the previous year – Audit is not applicable for you.” -> The turn over is less than 5 crores and the profit is less than 6 % ( loss) so I need an audit right?
NO AUDIT is required if you are having FNO transactions for first time for FY 2020-21 and declaring loss and also TURNOVER is less than 10 Crores(only incase of digital transactions).
The less than 6% condition is applicable in the below scenario:
Suppose, if you had FNO Income for any previous years and you were declaring under presumptive scheme under section 44AD; (meaning currently you are in presumptive scheme upto FY 2019-20)
now if you are opting OUT of presumptive scheme in FY 2020-21 and your FNO Income is less than 6%(meaning either in loss or in profits less than 6%) but total income is greater than basic exemption limit; then you have maintain books of accounts and get the AUDIT done [Tax Audit is applicable].
Threshold limit is 10 Crores (if you are transactions are digital) otherwise it is 1 Crore.
BB] Is it possible to set off option losses with STCG or LTCG? – Option Loss is a Business Loss; Current year business losses can be set off all the incomes except Salary Income. You can set off your option losses(current year) with STCG or LTCG.
Hi,
In the below example
Let me explain this with an example:
My salary – Rs.1,000,000/-
Short term capital gains from delivery based equity – Rs.100,000/-
Profits from F&O trading – Rs.100,000/-
Intraday equity trading – Rs.100,000/-
The Intraday equity trading of Rs. 100,000/- is the profit? please clarify.
Thank you
VJ
HI Baby Kumari,
I am a short term trader having profit less than 2.5lkh but this my only source of income. How much i need to pay tax ?
There is no tax liability if your income is less than INR 2.5 Lacs.
AA) my salary is above basic limit slab and I haven’t opted for presumptive so I guess need to get an audit. Also ehat is maintaining books? Zerodha already has a ledger right?
Hi Pravesh Agarwal,
AA) my salary is above basic limit slab and I haven’t opted for presumptive so I guess need to get an audit. Also what is maintaining books? Zerodha already has a ledger right?
No Audit is required; as you have not opted for presumptive in previous year.
Maintaining books is basically preparation of Profit and Loss & Balance Sheet. Based on Ledger and PL report from Zerodha – you can prepare PL n BS.
this matter as well as discussion contain lots of information which are very useful. at the same time i would like to know about software package to calculate the tax.
Where Audit has to be done or to whom it should be done. Is that available in Income tax site or any other way
If you earn from trading you have to pay tax immediate basis (advance tax), but if you lose you cannot adjust with salary income and income tax will not refund you the tax which they charged you, infact they will give you 8 years to make profit and get back money without paying next time. Income tax dept cant afford to pay anything but always ready to take share from profit rules are designed in a way that at the end of the day retailers suffer. Intraday profit cannot adjusted with fno loss. Fno considered as income but cannot adjust with salary (what a shame)
1.Does trading done from company account has any benefits of additional expenses a trader can claim instead as individual account.
Is interest paid to loan(used in F &O) taken from spouse is allowed as expenditure ? if yes what is the maximum rate of interest ?
one person taken loan from finance co./credit card etc and give the money to his wife as loan @24% ROI . wife using the money for trading and earn profit Rs. 10 lakh. now wife have to pay rs. 100000/- as interest to her husband. is it allowed under income tax ?
Hi Nithin sir
Please guide. I have only Interest income of rs. 1lac and F&O losses of Rs. 1.2 lacs in last fy. Turnover was less than 1cr. I want to carry forward the losses. Do I need to take tax audit or can simply file the return on self declaration basis.
Dear Sir,
My net salary income is 4.50 lac, Net Profit in equity shares (delivery based)- Rs.23000 (28000-5000), & In F&O- Loss is 31000 (52000-21000).
My question is what will be the tax amount and which ITR form will be filled.
Hi Subhasish,
My net salary income is 4.50 lac, Net Profit in equity shares (delivery based)- Rs.23000 (28000-5000), & In F&O- Loss is 31000 (52000-21000).
My question is what will be the tax amount and which ITR form will be filled.
You need to file ITR-3.
You can set off current year FNO Losses with all other incomes except Salary. So, Loss of 31K can be set off with equity delivery based profit of 23K and carry forward the balance loss of 8K.
There won’t be any tax liability because your overall income after set off is less than 5 Lacs and you can opt for rebate u/s 87A.
Hi Neha,
I have only Interest income of Rs 1 Lac and F&O losses of Rs. 1.2 lacs in last FY. Turnover was less than 1cr. I want to carry forward the losses. Do I need to take tax audit or can simply file the return on self declaration basis.
If you had FNO Income in FY 2019-20 and you had declare such FNO Income under regular taxation scheme and not under presumptive taxation scheme; then no AUDIT is not applicable for FY 2020-21.
In FY 2020-21, your turnover is less than the threshold limit applicable for audit. Your FNO loss of 1.2 Lacs will be set off against Interest Income of 1 Lacs and balance 20K will be carried forward.
Can I reduce the tax by showing borrowed money from my friend?
Like if I borrowed money from my friend for trading f&o.
sir, can i do intraday trade while working as PSU Bank employees?
Hi Medi Manoj,
Can I reduce the tax by showing borrowed money from my friend?
Like if I borrowed money from my friend for trading f&o?
You can claim the interest expense borrowed for FNO trading against FNO Income.
However, there should be adequate proof showing the receipt of loan, payment of interest.
Also, the counterpart should also declare interest received as Income in his return and pay tax on it(if applicable)
Hi Sunil,
Sir, can i do intraday trade while working as PSU Bank employees?
No Government servant shall speculate in any stock, share or other investment: Provided that nothing in this sub-rule shall apply to occasional investments made through stockbrokers or other persons duly authorized and licensed or who have obtained a certificate of registration under the relevant law.
More about this…https://support.zerodha.com/category/trading-and-markets/trading-faqs/articles/can-government-servants-trade-in-stock-markets
Sir, its regarding turnover calculation for intraday trading. Is it calculated by adding realised profit/loss of each trade in a year ? or is it the absolute value of all the trades in the year? Pls explain
Sir, If I make 10lac while trading futures and I invest all the profit which is 10lac in long term investing in the same year. Still, do I have to pay tax?
HI Rajeev,
Sir, its regarding turnover calculation for intraday trading. Is it calculated by adding realised profit/loss of each trade in a year ? or is it the absolute value of all the trades in the year? Pls explain
Turnover is the absolute value of the trades in the year.
Hi Vaibhav,
Sir, If I make 10lac while trading futures and I invest all the profit which is 10lac in long term investing in the same year. Still, do I have to pay tax?
Yes, you have to pay tax irrespective of whether you reinvest the profits or not.
Hello Sir,
Let’s say I have 10 L. I invest 5 L into several companies for long-term investments, I pledge that amount and use the pledge amount and balance amount for trading derivatives and other short-term trades.
Assume I am trading as a business income and I do not have any other source of income.
Let’s say I make a profit of 8-15 L business income.
How would I get taxed?
Would I have separate business income tax after which I would get taxed under income tax?
Could you explain how exactly this would work?
If my company gives me shares worth 10 Lakh. When it goes for IPO, the value of share becomes 100 times in the next couple of years.. say to Rs 10Cr and I sell all my shares, getting a profit of Rs 9.9Cr.. then how much tax would I have to pay?
Myself student ,
I do intraday trading, using 1 lakh if I earn below 2.5 lakhs from gains and losses.
Should I file ITR ?
How much maximum can we earn without ITR?
I can make a turnover of more than 1 core on single day with capital of Rs.10000 by trading with no loss no gain, only brokerage is there. So will I need an audit…?
Please in a bottom line manner that when I will come under ITs scrutiny if I only do have tarding/investing as my buisness.
Hi Nithin,
Whether central government employees can do swing trading of equity?
Hello San/Karthik Sir.
Could you please respond to my doubt below?
Hello Sir,
Let’s say I have 10 L. I invest 5 L into several companies for long-term investments, I pledge that amount and use the pledge amount and balance amount for trading derivatives and other short-term trades.
Assume I am trading as a business income and I do not have any other source of income.
Let’s say I make a profit of 8-15 L business income.
How would I get taxed?
Would I have separate business income tax after which I would get taxed under income tax?
Could you explain how exactly this would work?
Hi Kashyap,
Let’s say I have 10 Lacs.
I invest 5 L into several companies for long-term investments, I pledge that amount and use the pledge amount and balance amount for trading derivatives and other short-term trades.
Assume I am trading as a business income and I do not have any other source of income.
Let’s say I make a profit of 8-15 L business income.
How would I get taxed?
Would I have separate business income tax after which I would get taxed under income tax?
Could you explain how exactly this would work?
The collateral margin can be used for trading in Equity Intraday, Futures & Option writing. You cannot take Short Term Trades in equity.
If you have make profit of 8-15 Lacs business income – you will be taxed as per the slab applicable to you.
There is “no separate business income tax” against this 8-15 Lacs business income.
Tax will be paid of net FNO Income.
Hi Vinay,
Whether central government employees can do swing trading of equity?
No Government servant shall speculate in any stock, share or other investment.
More about this…https://support.zerodha.com/category/trading-and-markets/trading-faqs/articles/can-government-servants-trade-in-stock-markets
Hi Vishwajit Rane,
I can make a turnover of more than 1 core on single day with capital of Rs.10000 by trading with no loss no gain, only brokerage is there. So will I need an audit…?
There is no need to audit if your turnover does not exceed the threshold limit.
Please in a bottom line manner that when I will come under ITs scrutiny if I only do have trading/investing as my business.
It varies from case to case. One will be selected for scrutiny under CASS [Computer Aided Scrutiny Selection] having various reasons/parameters.
Eg – Selection for scrutiny having scrutiny reason of Reduction of Income in Revised return and claim of refund;
As of now, all the assessments are done electronically under E-Assessment Scheme 2019;
My realized profit is positive. However, my net realized profit after deducting brokerage and charges is negative
Do I still have to pay tax on my realized profit?
HI Maulik,
My realized profit is positive. However, my net realized profit after deducting brokerage and charges is negative
Do I still have to pay tax on my realized profit?
If realized profit is STCG; then exclude STT from the charges. After excluding STT – if realized profit is negative; then no need to pay tax.
Hi, I have recently started trading in options. I have few old shares that are giving good returns and are under LTCG. If I sell a call option backed by those shares and it becomes in the money on expiry and I opt to deliver the shares from my holdings, I will
1. earn profit from premium and
2. earn profit from delivering those shares.
My query is whether the profit earned on delivery of shares will be taxed as per LTCG i.e. 10% or it will be taxed at 30% as done on F&O profits.
Thanking you in advance
Hi A Kumar,
I have recently started trading in options. I have few old shares that are giving good returns and are under LTCG. If I sell a call option backed by those shares and it becomes in the money on expiry and I opt to deliver the shares from my holdings, I will
1. earn profit from premium and
2. earn profit from delivering those shares.
My query is whether the profit earned on delivery of shares will be taxed as per LTCG i.e. 10% or it will be taxed at 30% as done on F&O profits.
Profit earned on long term shares will be taxed @ 10%.
How do i suppose to pay quarterly advance taxes, when my profit and loss is not stable, i mean, In 1st two quarters if i get 50 lakhs profit and paid advance taxes accordingly, then in last two quarters, i get 55 lakhs loss, then overall i dont have to pay tax at all, but money gets locked for months with income tax unnecessarly in the name of advance tax which will be returned after e filing, Is it justifiable?
Hi Anand,
How do i suppose to pay quarterly advance taxes, when my profit and loss is not stable, i mean, In 1st two quarters if i get 50 lakhs profit and paid advance taxes accordingly, then in last two quarters, i get 55 lakhs loss, then overall i dont have to pay tax at all, but money gets locked for months with income tax unnecessarly in the name of advance tax which will be returned after e filing, Is it justifiable?
If it is other way around – one may have to incur unnecessary interest.
However, If the amount of refund is more than 10% of the tax as by the income tax department; you will be entitled to get interest 0.5% per month (6% p.a).
Question1 – Lets say Mr X transfers shares to Mr Y for a limited time period. And Mr Y transfers it back to Mr X. Would there be any tax liability, specially capital gain. Mr Y wants to use those shares to get a loan or limit for shares.
Question2 – Is there a way by which Mr X can get a limit for shares and transfer that limit to Mr Y for trading.
i am salaried person my salary is 7 lacs and income from f&o is 6.70 how much i will have to pay tax
i already paying tax from income from salary
how much i have to pay tax from f&o
plz let me know
Hi Sandeep,
i am salaried person my salary is 7 lacs and income from f&o is 6.70 how much i will have to pay tax
i already paying tax from income from salary
how much i have to pay tax from f&o?
Assume ₹ 7 Lacs the taxable salary income and ₹ 6.70 Lacs is the net FNO Income.
Total Tax including cess on ₹ 13.7 Lacs will be ₹2,32,440 [₹ 2,23,500 plus ₹ 8940]
Deduct the TDS on Salary from the above; balance will be the tax payable.
Tax is calculated as per old regime.
Use this calculator… https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/pages/tools/income-tax-calculator.aspx
Sir ,
How can pay income tax deposite if my tax is more than 5cr,
I m using saving account
Through NetBanking I will pay online only 25000/-
Then how can pay 5cr in a day to income tax department
Hi Madhusudan Kumar,
How can pay income tax deposite if my tax is more than 5cr, I m using saving account
Through NetBanking I will pay online only 25000/-
Then how can pay 5cr in a day to income tax department.
You can also make the tax payment by cheque directly at the bank.
Bank will give the challan immediately. You can use that challan for filing income tax.
Hello sir,
I am a a salaried individual with 7 lacs income from salary. I have FNO turnover of 55lacs and 5.7 lac loss out of it.
My questions are below :
1. Which ITR am i supposed to fill?
2. What are advantages and disadvantages of “reporting presumptive income” for loss treatment.
3. What are advantages and disadvantages of “reporting loss” for loss treatment.
4. Will there be any impact on my loan capacity on reporting loss?
Thanking you in advance!!
Hi,
I have a taxable income from under Salary head. I have STCG and profit of around 10% of the turnover from Options trading.
Should I file ITR-3 or ITR-4 for Fy2020-21? If I file ITR-3 and claim deductions on the expenses incurred, will I need to get an audit done?
HI Akshay,
I am a salaried individual with 7 lacs income from salary. I have FNO turnover of 55lacs and 5.7 lac loss out of it.
My questions are below:
AA] Which ITR am I supposed to fill? – If you are opting for presumptive scheme; you need to file ITR-4 otherwise ITR-3.
Please check the eligibility before applying presumptive scheme.
BB] What are advantages and disadvantages of “reporting presumptive income” for loss treatment.
Major advantages are no need to prepare books of account and you can declare flat 6% income on your turnover and skip audit if applicable.
Disadvantage is you cannot carry forward the loss.
CC] What are advantages and disadvantages of “reporting loss” for loss treatment.
There is no disadvantage in reporting loss. If you report the loss; you can carry forward it for future years and set off with profit.
DD] Will there be any impact on my loan capacity on reporting loss?
Generally personal loans are processed based on credit scores and repayment capacity. If credit score and repayment capacity are intact – I think there will not be an issue. However, Pls check with a CA
Hi Anuj,
I have a taxable income from under Salary head. I have STCG and profit of around 10% of the turnover from Options trading.
Should I file ITR-3 or ITR-4 for Fy2020-21? If I file ITR-3 and claim deductions on the expenses incurred, will I need to get an audit done?
Audit is required/applicable
AA] if your turnover crosses the threshold limit in the current year. (FY 2020-21) or;
BB] if you are opting OUT of presumptive scheme in the current year(FY 2020-21) (meaning you had opted for presumptive scheme in the previous year) and your net FNO Income in the current year is less than 6%(meaning either in loss or in profits less than 6%) but total income is greater than basic exemption limit; then tax audit is applicable.
If your turnover is less than 2 Crores and if you have not opted for presumptive taxation scheme in last 5 years – you can opt for presumptive taxation scheme and file ITR-4; otherwise you need to file ITR-3.
Hi San,
Thanks for your reply.
I have been filing ITR-2 till now. So if I understand this correctly, I can file ITR-4 for FY2020-21 and declare a flat income of 6% of the turnover even though my profit maybe around 10%.
Hello,
My father is retired and has income from all sources less than 1 lpa. His trading account details as below : (Intraday turnover : 23k, loss 6.5k; STCG 30k profit, LTCG 17k profit;; FNO turnover : 30.5lacs; loss : 2.2 lacs).
Net taxable income less than 2.5 lacs. Is there anything related to income tax needs to be looked into?
Does it required to file ITR? If yes which?
As net income less than minimum taxable income, if ITR is not filled, will there be any notice from IT Department?
Hi Anuj Agarwal,
I have been filing ITR-2 till now. So if I understand this correctly, I can file ITR-4 for FY2020-21 and declare a flat income of 6% of the turnover even though my profit maybe around 10%.
Yes, you can do that.
Dear sir,
Should i pay tax only on the profit cashed out to my savings bank account,or as per the profit transaction in my demat account
What if i sold a stock with profit and with the same amount in demat i bought other shares ,here if i am not cashing out to my savings account
Should i pay tax
Dear sir,
Should i pay tax only on the profit cashed out to my savings bank account,or as per the profit transaction in my demat account
What if i sold a stock with profit and with the same amount in demat i bought other shares ,here if i am not cashing out to my savings account
How and when should i pay tax
I mostly do swing trading
Hi Sajith,
Should i pay tax only on the profit cashed out to my savings bank account,or as per the profit transaction in my demat account
What if i sold a stock with profit and with the same amount in demat i bought other shares ,here if i am not cashing out to my savings account
How and when should i pay tax. I mostly do swing trading.
Tax should be paid irrespective of whether you WITHDRAW/INVEST the gains or not.
Tax should be paid as per the profit mentioned in PL.
Hello sir,
My father is retired and has income from all sources less than 1 lpa. His trading account details as below : (Intraday turnover : 23k, loss 6.5k; STCG 30k profit, LTCG 17k profit;; FNO turnover : 30.5lacs; loss : 2.2 lacs).
Net taxable income less than 2.5 lacs. Is there anything related to income tax needs to be looked into?
Does it required to file ITR? If yes which?
As net income less than minimum taxable income, if ITR is not filled, will there be any notice from IT Department?
Hi AKshay,
My father is retired and has income from all sources less than 1 Lacs.
Intraday turnover : 23k, loss 6.5k;
STCG 30k profit, LTCG 17k profit;;
FNO turnover : 30.5lacs; loss : 2.2 lacs
AA] Net taxable income less than 2.5 lacs. Is there anything related to income tax needs to be looked into?
There won’t be any tax payable as income is less than the threshold limit.
BB] Does it required to file ITR? If yes which?
If your total income before Chapter VI-A deductions and before giving effect to capital gains exemptions(like Sec 54/54B/54EC etc.,) is less than basic exemption limit i.e ₹2.5 Lacs; then filing of income tax return is OPTIONAL.
You need to file ITR-3. It is suggested to file the income tax return as you can carry forward the loss and set off in future years.
CC] As net income less than minimum taxable income, if ITR is not filled, will there be any notice from IT Department?
Can’t say. But since he has loss; it is suggested to file the return.
As per zerodha report, —
Intraday trading 1.5. lakh loss, short term realized profit 60k, long term profit 00, intraday turnover 8 lakh, Total charges 1.4 lakhs,
I’m salaried person with 16 lakhs as taxable income. please suggest whether i need to go for tax audit. How much charges, Any way to save tax . NOW, i intent to shift in long term trading only in share market and will invest only 2 lakhs as initial seed money for intraday trading. WHICH option best (a) reporting as Business income , (b) reporting as Speculative loss.
hi
i am a salaried person with salary above 20 lacs. i started trading in fy 20-21 for first time.
equity delivery profit – 50k
FnO loss (incl charges) – 52.5 k
FnO turnover- 1.12 cr
1. can i set off my FnO loss (incl charges) against delivery profit for the year.
2. do i need to get audit done
3. if i dont want to carry forward the loss, can i fill ITR-1
thanks in advance.
Hi Shanu,
Intraday trading 1.5. lakh loss, short term realized profit 60k, long term profit 00, intraday turnover 8 lakh, Total charges 1.4 lakhs.
I’m salaried person with 16 lakhs as taxable income.
please suggest whether I need to go for tax audit. Any way to save tax. NOW, I intent to shift in long term trading only in share market and will invest only 2 lakhs as initial seed money for intraday trading.
WHICH option best (a) reporting as Business income, (b) reporting as Speculative loss.
Audit is not applicable as your turnover is less than the threshold limit.
Intraday Trading is treated as speculative business; Gain or loss from it will be treated as speculative income/loss.
Hi Sunny,
i am a salaried person with salary above 20 lacs. i started trading in fy 20-21 for first time.
equity delivery profit – 50k
FnO loss (incl charges) – 52.5 k
FnO turnover- 1.12 cr
AA] can i set off my FnO loss (incl charges) against delivery profit for the year – Yes current year FNO loss can be set off against all incomes except Salary.
BB] do i need to get audit done – Since, your turnover is less than the threshold limit and you have traded for first time in 20-21; tax audit is NOT applicable.
CC] if i dont want to carry forward the loss, can i fill ITR-1 – It is suggested to declare all the incomes and file the applicable ITR.
My net taxable income in form 16 is 474000 I have intraday profit of 1500 and short term capital gain of 3400. Which ITR should I fill?
Hi Sanju,
My net taxable income in form 16 is 474000 I have intraday profit of 1500 and short term capital gain of 3400. Which ITR should I fill?
You need to file ITR-3.
Declare Salary Income under Schedule S, Intraday Details/Profit under Schedule PL and STCG under Schedule CG.
I want to know my total tax liability if I earn money only from share market not any salary from job or business then how I know my tax liability.
I posses trading account with Zerodha.
Hi Nikita Panchal,
I want to know my total tax liability if I earn money only from share market not any salary from job or business then how I know my tax liability.
I posses trading account with Zerodha.
Intraday and FNO Income are taxed as per your income tax slabs.
LTCG more than 1 Lacs is taxed @ 10%; and STCG is taxed @ 15%.
While calculating STCG are demat account charges deductible as a valid expense?
While I am trying to file new ITR2 my swing trading profit STCG is taxing at normal rate instead of 15%. I rechecked my entries on schedule CG 111A several times ,but system is calculating at 30% which is my tax slab. please clarify
Hi Sudhir Malhotra
While calculating STCG are demat account charges deductible as a valid expense?
Yes, you can claim all the expenses relating to sale except STT.
Hi Joy Jose,
While I am trying to file new ITR2 my swing trading profit STCG is taxing at normal rate instead of 15%. I rechecked my entries on schedule CG 111A several times ,but system is calculating at 30% which is my tax slab. please clarify.
Please download the latest ITR utility and try again.
Dear sir,
i am salaried , my salary is 600000 per anum,
and i am trading in futures and options, equity also, i have 3 lakh loss in last financial year that is 2020-21,
which itr i should file tax , how to carry my loss
And how to calculate total turnover?
Please advise me
Wrong calculation under section: 5.2 Taxation of trading/business income. Total tax amount is correct: 1,72,500 but the sub-components of it are wrong. They should be:
12,500 + 100,000 + 60,000
NOT
25,000 + 100,000 + 60,000
Similarly Total Tax amount should also be:
172,500 + 15,000 = Rs. 182,500/-
NOT
185,000 + 15,000 = Rs. 200,000-
Sir,
I am a beginner in equity trading. I do intra day and swing trading. If my total income from this trading falls below 2.5 lac, whether I have to file return? I’m a house wife and doesn’t have any other income.
Hi Salim,
I am a beginner in equity trading. I do intra day and swing trading. If my total income from this trading falls below 2.5 lac, whether I have to file return? I’m a house wife and doesn’t have any other income.
If your income before Chapter VI-A deductions and other capital gain deductions is less than the threshold limit of 2.5 Lacs; then filing of income tax return is optional.
I am a pensioner. Just out of interest I opened a demat account and transacted trading both intraday and delivery for three months. Now since i am not interested in this anymore, i have decided to close my demat account. My account is in loss only. Do i have to fill itr-1 or itr2 or 3 or4
Whether do you provide any tax audit for F&O, to file my return as I incurred Losses in F&O.
Hi Sir,
I am a housewife. I didn’t have any source of income. recently I started trading with a 1.30 L capital amount. I was getting losses while trading in options after onwards I did only in EQUITY as a swing trader. Could you please let me know I need to pay tax for short-term gains / long-term gains? or file ITR forms?
if I trade apart from equity then tax will pay?
Sir i am a intra – day option treader , I earned 20 lacs in 6 month then wht amount I wil pay tax
Sir i am a intra – day option treader , I earned 20 lacs in 6 month then wht amount I wil pay tax
Hi..
Read your above article and thanks for the same.
If possible, can you please let me know tax rate at which tax is payable on intraday profit. We are Limited company and are dealing as Share Broker providing services related to shares and securities.
We have opted for 115BAA option i.e. tax rate 22% + Surcharge 10% + Cess 4% = 25.168%.
So would like to know, whether we are required to pay tax @ 25.168% or 30% on speculative intraday profit.
Would appreciate reply from your side.
Thanks & Regards
MERA FORM NO 16A and 16B AA GYA USME TAX sirf salaried income pr h
and i made profit of 7 lac from income from share market
wo kaha pr pay karna padega uske liye koi alag form hai kya
I’m a salaried employee with more taxable income of 6 lakhs after all deduction around
I traded in FnO for the first time and made a loss of 31k and turn over around 32L
I also made short term gains of 10k
Intraday I suffered a loss of -1.36K and turn over was just above 3k
Which ITR should I file? and Is the audit required since I have crosses FnO threshold
Where does the tax apply for intraday trading? Should I calculate the taxes on “Intraday/Speculative profit” or on “Intraday/Speculative turnover”?
Hi,
I had filed ITR 3 for FY 20 on 27th December 2020, which I revised twice:
a) On 28th December 2020 as ITR 2
b) 1st Jan 2021 as ITR 3
The IT department processed ITR 2 on 6th Jan and issued a refund (item a above). However, I hoped that the ITR 3 filed on 2nd Jan would be the one considered as the final one, as it was submitted before processing of earlier submission (the refund on ITR 2 is also not credited yet). I have raised grievances to IT department twice but they are saying they will process it.
Now, I need to file the return for FY 21. I am not sure which of the earlier submission for FY 20 should be considered as a base.
I had some short-term trading losses in FY 20. In ITR 2 (processed by the department) I claimed them as short term capital losses, but in the ITR 3 (the final submission), I showed them as business loss. Though, the turnover for short term trading in FY 20 was around 1.15 Cr, it is around 6 Cr in FY 21. Hence, considering that I have to file FY 21 as business income, I showed same as business income in ITR 3 for FY 20 as well. Which of the ITR submission for FY 20 should be taken as base for carrying forward the losses?
Kindly advise.
HI Satish,
I am a pensioner. Just out of interest I opened a demat account and transacted trading both intraday and delivery for three months. Now since i am not interested in this anymore, i have decided to close my demat account. My account is in loss only.
Do I have to fill itr-1 or itr2 or 3 or4?
You need to file ITR3 by declaring Intraday and Capital Gain details..
Hi Suresh,
I had filed ITR 3 for FY 20 on 27th December 2020, which I revised twice:
a) On 28th December 2020 as ITR 2
b) 1st Jan 2021 as ITR 3
The IT department processed ITR 2 on 6th Jan and issued a refund (item a above). However, I hoped that the ITR 3 filed on 2nd Jan would be the one considered as the final one, as it was submitted before processing of earlier submission (the refund on ITR 2 is also not credited yet). I have raised grievances to IT department twice but they are saying they will process it.
Now, I need to file the return for FY 21. I am not sure which of the earlier submission for FY 20 should be considered as a base.
I had some short-term trading losses in FY 20. In ITR 2 (processed by the department) I claimed them as short term capital losses, but in the ITR 3 (the final submission), I showed them as business loss. Though, the turnover for short term trading in FY 20 was around 1.15 Cr, it is around 6 Cr in FY 21. Hence, considering that I have to file FY 21 as business income, I showed same as business income in ITR 3 for FY 20 as well. Which of the ITR submission for FY 20 should be taken as base for carrying forward the losses?
ITR 3 filed on 1st Jan 2021 will be considered as FINAL. Revised return substitutes the original return from the date the original return was filed.
Once the revised return is filed, the original return is deemed to have withdrawn and revised return steps into the shoes of original return; so you can consider ITR-3 as base for filing this year return.
Hi Kush,
Where does the tax apply for intraday trading? Should I calculate the taxes on “Intraday/Speculative profit” or on “Intraday/Speculative turnover”?
You need to pay taxes on Intraday/Speculative profit” and NOT on “Intraday/Speculative turnover”.
Thanks for your clarification. I will use the latest revision as the base.
Also, I could not understand why the department processed the first revision, even when the 2nd revision was already submitted. They also did not process the original one. Is it because of ITR 2 vs ITR 3? Is there any rules/usual process in this regard.
Isn’t it confusing in text calculation in section 5.2 – Taxation of trading/business income because of calculation error.
Hi Sir,
Can you please explain what & from where is this 25000 added in this extract of Total Tax:-
Total income (salary + business) = Rs.1,000,000 (salary income) + Rs.100,000 (Profits from F&O trading) + Rs.100,000 (Intraday equity trading) = Rs 1,200,000/-
I now have to pay tax on Rs 12,00,000/- based on the tax slab –
0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 5% – Rs.12,500/-
500,000 – Rs.1,000,000 : 20% – Rs.100,000/-,
1,000,000 – 1,200,000: 30% – Rs.60,000/-
Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
Thanks
Hi Nithin,
I have 2 questions..
1) Whether expenses can claimed against intraday equity trading income and net is taxable
2) A salaried person or a person having only trading under head of business income which is less than 1 cr then no need of tax audit rigt..?
Hi Subha,
I have 2 questions..
1) Whether expenses can claimed against intraday equity trading income and net is taxable – Yes, you can claim the expenses.
2) A salaried person or a person having only trading under head of business income which is less than 1 Cr then no need of tax audit right..? – Yes, tax audit is not applicable if your turnover is less than the threshold limit and if you are not opting out of presumptive scheme in the current year.
Sir i am salaried person and I don’t trade evry time some time I make profit and losses too ,my question is,Does the income tax is only on profit or the difference between the profit and loss happened in the whole year..
Hello sir
My question is if you are working in a company and trade whenever you get time it is ligali problem if YES how Please explain..
Hello sir
I am working in a MNC company and i work in shifts so I trade whenever the time permits so is it ligali problem if YES how Please explain.
Hi Hanumathe Gowda,
Sir i am salaried person and I don’t trade every time some time I make profit and losses too ,my question is, Does the income tax is only on profit or the difference between the profit and loss happened in the whole year..
Income Tax is payable on the net gains earned. Eg: Net Short Term Capital Gains; Net LTCG.
I dont think it is a problem ; you can have salary income as well as capital gains.
Can I declare swing trading (delivery based trading) as non-speculative business income.
I am a salaried individual ( Resident Indian , 45 years age) with a salary income of Rs.10 lac, intraday speculative business income Rs.7000 ( turn over Rs.23000), F&O business loss Rs.1.5 lac ( turnover Rs.12.5 lac), Short term capital loss Rs.1500 during FY 2020-21.
I have never opted presumptive taxation ( u/s 44AD) during last five years.
I want to carry forward the F&O loss. I am reporting all of my income(loss) using ITR 3 following section 44AB and want to carry forward the F&O loss.
It will be helpful if you please guide me by answering following two .
1. In order to carry forward my loss , is the maintenance of books of accounts & audit mandetory for my case ?
2. Should I insert my F&O loss in P&L schedule of ITR 3 within “No Account Case” tab ?
3. I had not paid advance taxes in FY 2020-21 due to ignorance. What should I do now?
Hi,
I treat the short-term capital gain as business income. In FY 2019-20 I had a turnover of 1.2 Cr and I filed ITR-3 with audit by CA. in FY 2020-21, I had a turnover of around 7 Cr. I later noted that there is some provision where audit is not required below 10 Cr turnover if 95 percent transactions are digital. In my case this applies. I was told that this exemption for audit is only available if you go for presumptive tax, paying fix % of turnover. As profits in stock trading can be small part of the total turnover, this may not be suitable option. Kindly clarify this rule.
Thanks
Its a wonderfully scripted chapter for share market investors. QnA also gives lots of useful information n tips for investors.
2. My question is on occasional intraday trades. Sometimes ( less than 1% of turnover n trades, all STT paid trades) i book intraday profits on part or full of trades when there is 5% or above gains on buy price. This is only sometimes or in cases when by mistake wrong orders gets placed.
In above cases, I had been taking net of above as STCG gains n paying taxes n so far no queries or rejections by IT depth.
3.Now i am confused.pse
3. Pse
Its a wonderfully scripted chapter for share market investors. QnA also gives lots of useful information n tips for investors.
2. My question is on occasional intraday trades. Sometimes ( less than 1% of turnover n trades, all STT paid trades) i book intraday profits on part or full of trades when there is 5% or above gains on buy price. This is only sometimes or in cases when by mistake wrong orders gets placed.
In above cases, I had been taking net of above as STCG gains n paying taxes n so far no queries or rejections by IT depth.
3.Now i am confused. pse clarify. Do i need to show any intraday gains, irrespective of amount n frequency, as Business Income and in no case this can be accounted n clubbed as STCG
I trade regularly ( total trade value above 3crs but less than 5crs), I am a pensioners n falls in 30% tax bracket. Pse guide. Thanks.
Its a wonderfully scripted chapter for share market investors. QnA also gives lots of useful information n tips for investors.
2. My question is on occasional intraday trades. Sometimes ( less than 1% of turnover n trades, all STT paid trades) i book intraday profits on part or full of trades when there is 5% or above gains on buy price. This is only sometimes or in cases when by mistake wrong orders gets placed. Total Speculative Gains or loss works to be around 10 to 20000/= in a FY. I simply add these intraday gains to STCG n calculate taxes.
Thus, I had been taking net of above as STCG gains n paying taxes n so far no queries or rejections by IT depth. LTCG is in addition for income tax calculations.
3.Now i am confused. pse clarify. Do i need to show any intraday gains, irrespective of amount n frequency, as Business Income and in no case this can be accounted n clubbed as STCG
I am also confused on Turnover. In my post above, I took it as Total Buy amount of trades + Total Sell amount of trades). But in one example its shown as Only the Sell Amount. So pse correct me.
I trade regularly ( total trade value above 3crs but less than 5crs), I am a pensioners n falls in 30% tax bracket. Pse guide. Thanks.
My are mentioned below👇
1. Can govt. Employee start investment like :- short term , long term and intraday trading ?
2. Can we fill income tax as per new tax slab/rate?
Please reply sir.
I am a farmer and if I earn from share market will my agricultural income be added in my share market income or will I have to pay taxes on my capital gains only.
As agricultural income is untaxable.
Hello,
Point 5.2 has an error, In below line the Total Tax from (salary + business) should be Rs.185,000/- but its mentioned as Rs.172,500/-. Please correct.
Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
Hi Nithin- It’s a great article. I would say there is some ambiguity in tax laws and it’s quite subjective. e.g If a person is a trader and has income from all forms of trade should short term capital gains be treated as business income or STCG. In some year I may have few STCG transactions and in some year more depend on market conditions. I think Zerodha has a ability to ask Government authority to make laws more clear as there is a significant increase in Retail participation post Covid-19.
2)Most of retail trader are also Salaried Individual and if they have incurred loss on FNO why they need to complicate their ITR. Can’t they simply choose to ignore loss rather than to go for Audit.
3) Under New Tax regime can a Individual set off their short term capital loss against STCG or better stay under old Tax regime to avail the benefits.
Thanks for your time to go through my long query and hoping for positive reply especially on asking Tax authorities for reform or clarification on tax laws for FNO losses and treatment for STCG as STCG or Business income.
Hi Nithin,
Thanks a lot for spending ton of time for sake of investors/traders.
I see you less active on these Q&A in recent times, knowing you are involved in new things but you have a bigger team also to handle Q&A.
If your team could put a few screenshot based practical information about where to put speculative/non-speculative/ STCG/LTCG/Busines Expense etc. Given the format change in ITR site it has become big issue. I know CA can always do but not everyone want to go to CA. Kind of social work with disclaimer – Consult a CA.
Do We Need to Pay Income Tax in this Condition also If we buy or invest all our Yearly Trading Profit in Buying Equities/Stocks For long Term.
Looks like there is a wrong math here
” Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/- ”
It should be 12500 instead of 25000
I am a retired senior citizen with no pension income. My only source of income is through interest on deposits, dividends and trading profit, if any. During the Year 2020-21 (assessment year 2021-22) my turnover in options has exceeded 1.4 Crore but incurred a trading loss of about 15 Lacs. This has resulted in net financial loss of about 13 Lacs during the financial year. Is it wrong if I do not submit an audited ITR under above condition. Please suggest a simple procedure, if any.
Hi Rathnakara,
I am a retired senior citizen with no pension income. My only source of income is through interest on deposits, dividends and trading profit, if any.
During the Year 2020-21 (assessment year 2021-22) my turnover in options has exceeded 1.4 Crore but incurred a trading loss of about 15 Lacs. This has resulted in net financial loss of about 13 Lacs during the financial year. Is it wrong if I do not submit an audited ITR under above condition. Please suggest a simple procedure, if any.
Audit is not applicable in your case since turnover is less than the threshold limit and your overall income is also less than the basic exemption limit.
Suggest you to file the ITR-3 and carry forward the loss for future years.
We need to pay tax first and withdrawl money or form the total tax will be deducted
HI Arbin,
We need to pay tax first and withdrawl money or form the total tax will be deducted?
Tax is to be paid separately on the gains or profits earned; Broker will not deduct any tax on capital gains or profits earned.
If my turnover is 4 cr and my year profit is 40 lakhs then.. what will be the tax I’ve to pay.. Will i need to get my audit done..
Hi Gopal kewat,
If my turnover is 4 cr and my year profit is 40 lakhs then.. what will be the tax I’ve to pay.. Will i need to get my audit done..?
If this is your first year of FNO; then tax audit is not applicable.
For tax, refer https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/pages/tools/income-tax-calculator.aspx
SIR, I AM 85 YEARS OF AGE
(1) BANK DEDUCTED RS. 6000/- AS TDS ON INTEREST ON FDR,s, THOUGH I SUBMITTED 15-H ON TIME FOR THE FY 2020-21.
(2) I HAVE NET REALIZED PROFIT OF 55000/- BY TRADING IN F& O WITH A TURNOVER OF 1,25,000/=. DURING FY 2020-21.
I WANT TO KNOW
(1) IN ORDER TO GET REFUND, WHICH ITR FORM ( 1/2/3/4) I HAVE TO SUBMIT/FILE.?
(2) WHERE Rs, 55000/- AS MENTIONED ABOVE IS TO BE SHOWN( IF BUSINESS INCOME ..THEN UNDER WHICH HEAD OR SHORT TERM CAPITAL GAINS.
(3) SHOULD I OPT FOR NEW TAXATION SCHEME …..AND CAN IT BE SWITCHED LATER ALSO OR NOT.
(4) STILL TRADING IN F & O , BUT SPARINGLY , IN FY 2021-22….
PLEASE ADVICE AND GUIDE
THANKS
Sir, My salary 300000.00 per year. Aug 2021 in my portfolio 485000.00 but my actual investments 260000.00 , 150000.00 investment from my salary, 110000.00 from my friends, now what is my actual taxes?
Hi Deepak Sir,
(1) Bank deducted Rs 6000/- as TDS on interest on FD, though i submitted 15-h on time for the fy 2020-21.
(2) I have net realized profit of 55000/- by trading in f&o with a turnover of 1,25,000/- during fy 2020-21.
I want to know
AA] in order to get refund, which itr form ( 1/2/3/4) i have to submit/file?
Since you have FNO Income and your turnover is less than 2 Crore, you have two options – you can either file ITR 4 or ITR 3.
If you opt for presumptive scheme – ITR-4; otherwise ITR-3
BB] where Rs, 55000/- as mentioned above is to be shown (if business income ..then under which head or short term capital gains)
FNO is always business income; you need to declare under “Profits and Gains from Business or Profession”
CC] should i opt for new taxation scheme …..and can it be switched later also or not still trading in f & o , but sparingly , in fy 2021-22….
Since you are expecting refund; I assume your income is less than the threshold limit – you can choose either of the schemes.
Hi Soumen Mondal,
Sir, My salary 300000.00 per year. Aug 2021 in my portfolio 485000.00 but my actual investments 260000.00 , 150000.00 investment from my salary, 110000.00 from my friends, now what is my actual taxes?
Try…https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/pages/tools/income-tax-calculator.aspx
Hi Nithin, Can we use last year’s FNO losses (being non speculative business) to set off against STCG gains of the stock investments of this year? Thanks in advance.
Hi Vyas,
Can we use last year’s FNO losses (being non speculative business) to set off against STCG gains of the stock investments of this year? Thanks in advance.
No, last year FNO losses/business loss can be set off against only FNO Income/Business Income or Profession Income.
Current year FNO loss can be set off against all the incomes except Salary.
Dear Sir,
I have taxable income. (12 Lac)
Intraday trading loss is 25000.
Scriptwise Turnover is 1.5 L .
Tradewise Turnover is 4.2 L.
STCG profit is 5500
As per CA – no audit required as audit is for f&o only.and i have done intraday trading only, which falls under speculative income which is no account case. So here no need to maintain book and audit not required.
Just want to understand about “no account case” and if tax audit is required or not in my scenario?
Sir if I sell shares( allotted through IPO) on listing day it self , whether profit would be considered as intraday profit or STCG
Hi S,
Are you from zerodha??
Hello,
I am a salaried person and do have some investments in Stock market and i am actually doing this from investment perspective and have been filing my ITR 2 every year. This year without intention i did some day trades actually i bough few stocks for investment but during the day they fell so i sold same day and have a total loss of Rs 20K. The problem is that i did not realize that time that this will create a problem for me as now i have to file ITR3 which is a big hassle for Balance Sheet P&L etc.
It is very difficult and unreasonable that i have to flle ITR 3 and prepare Balance Sheet & P&L just for few unintential day trading activities. Is there a way i can legally get away with this haasel.
Hi Sanjay Raina,
I am a salaried person and do have some investments in Stock market and i am actually doing this from investment perspective and have been filing my ITR 2 every year. This year without intention i did some day trades actually i bough few stocks for investment but during the day they fell so i sold same day and have a total loss of Rs 20K. The problem is that i did not realize that time that this will create a problem for me as now i have to file ITR3 which is a big hassle for Balance Sheet P&L etc.
It is very difficult and unreasonable that i have to file ITR 3 and prepare Balance Sheet & P&L just for few unintential day trading activities. Is there a way i can legally get away with this hassle.
There are two options:
AA] You can pay tax under presumptive scheme 44AD (if eligible) i.e 6% on Intraday turnover and file ITR-4/3 as applicable depending upon capital gains. But the turnover should be less than 2 Crores.
BB] You can opt for no account case and declare Intraday details under Schedule PL in ITR 3 such as Turnover, Gross Profit and other expenditure and under Schedule BS – you can declare details of debtors, creditors, stock in trade and cash.
Since loss is 20K, I assume your turnover will also be less – you can go with second option.
Hi Santonu,
Sir if I sell shares( allotted through IPO) on listing day it self , whether profit would be considered as intraday profit or STCG
It is treated as STCG.
Hi Ajay,
I have taxable income. (12 Lac)
Intraday trading loss is 25000.
Scriptwise Turnover is 1.5 L .
Tradewise Turnover is 4.2 L.
STCG profit is 5500
As per CA – no audit required as audit is for f&o only and i have done intraday trading only, which falls under speculative income which is no account case. So here no need to maintain book and audit not required.
Just want to understand about “no account case” and if tax audit is required or not in my scenario?
When maintaining books of accounts as per Income tax act is not mandatory, one can opt for “no account case”.
Since your turnover is less than the threshold limit – audit is not applicable.
[I also assume that you have NOT opted of presumptive scheme in the current year]
Hi S,
I haven’t opted presumptive scheme till now.
One more question.
Some people says In no account case you can’t show negative amount if you do so you need to maintain account book and audit required.
Is this correct?
Intraday income is considered as business income, if my turnover is less than 2Cr ( for example my turnover is 1.80 crore and suppose my profit is 1.50 Crore) then can i file my ITR in 44AD??? If i do so, my taxable income will be 6% of 1.50 crore and tax will be paid according to slab??? Right??? Pls note i dont have any other income…my pure income of 1.50 crore is from Intraday Trading…
I am Govt emp. Unknowingly entered trading. Salary 6.5 lak per annum. Traded intraday but lost 11k. How to know my tax related items.
Hi nithin I am govt employee salary 6.5 lak per annum. F&O turnover 6lak only and loss 10k do I have to include these for my taxation
Hi, Do I need to pay tax for Realized profit or Net Realized Profit ?
My salary income is 4 lac and fno turnover is 80lac and profit is 1.80 lac so i need yo audit?
Hello sir,
If my income from delivery based equity is less than Rs.2.5Lakhs, Will I be subject to income tax?
*No other income
Hi Arun,
If my income from delivery based equity is less than Rs.2.5Lakhs, Will I be subject to income tax?
Upto 2.5 Lacs, no tax needs to be paid.
Ok..
Thanks Sir.
Hello Nithin, my wife do not have any income as she is homemaker, she trades mostly in BTST or Short term and never crossed more than 1.5 lakh p.a. Does she need to file tax returns? if we do not have any income and just do trading, will it comes under tax slab exemption ?
I made a intraday profit of Rs.3 Lakh
Short term loss if Rs.2.45 Lakh
F &O loss of Rs.1.70 Lakh
Can I set off the intraday profit to my losses on short term and F & O
Pls reply
Sir I have a question…
-If my treding income is less then 2.5 lac , do i need to pay tax of 15%…? ( if don’t have any other income )
And do i need to do IT file..?
Is it mandatory to file IT file even if income is not crossing 2.5 lacs in treding…?
No other income is there only treding is the income.(like..Salary)
Sir I have a question…
-If my treding income(only equty profits) is less then 2.5 lac , do i need to pay tax of 15%…? ( if don’t have any other income )
And do i need to do IT file..?
Is it mandatory to file IT file even if income is not crossing 2.5 lacs in treding in equity…?
No other income is there only treding is the income.
Hi Nithin,
I have a practical question about something I am discussing with my CA. I was doing commodity futures trading last year and am filing returns with Futures trading income for the first time. On Mar 31st night, I was holding some lots of Silver Futures. How will this impact my total loss/profit?
Here are the details:
Security: CF SILVERMIC 30Apr2021
Net Qty: 57.00
Net Rate: 65,163.56
Net Amount: -3,714,323.00
Profit/Loss: -64,385.00 (in my report)
Buy Quantity: 103.00
Buy Rate: 67,034.62
Sale Quantity: 46.00
Sale Rate: 69,353.11
Closing Price: 64,034.00
Should the Profit/Loss be calculated like we do for stock, ie. 46 were bought and sold so only those will be considered, remaining will be considered next year (OR) Should we consider the remaining as sold at Closing Price(as done by the report)?
Hi,
Could some say why TDS is not made mandatory while trading itself. This could have been a fool proof method right..Like say 15% on all profits made in case of STCG atleast.
Thx
Hello,
What is the total tax of the below income,
Short term capital gain Rs 400000
Long term capital gain Rs 400000
Expanse : Rs 150000
No other income other than the above.
Hello Sir, my own small business income for 2020-21 is 2.4 lakh approx and some loss around 30000/- in f&o, intraday…can I show this small business income in non-speculative buisness to adjust f&o losses in itr filling or will show in sec 44AD mandatory? Plz help.
Hi, I want to if I have booked profit of Rs. 5,00,000 in F&O & not withdrawn that money to my bank savings account & is lying in my Zerodha trading account. So will I need to pay Capital Gains on that?
I am salried and doing F&O trading as well , kindly guide on filing tax in such cases
The point explained in 5.2 of Taxation column in Varsity is difficult to understand
Kindly guide
Hi Manish,
I am salaried and doing F&O trading as well , kindly guide on filing tax in such cases
Total your Salary Income and FNO Profit; and then calculate the tax.
For FNO Income – tax is paid as per the applicable slab rates.
I want to know how options are taxed, like do i have to pay tax only on profits or total traded value. And also I’m a student i used the money i received as a gift not as a salary
HAVE SWING TRADE TAX?
FOR EXAMPLE:-
Short term capital gains from delivery based equity – Rs.100,000/-
I DONT HAVE ANY OTHER INCOME
DO I NEED TO GIVE TAX ABOVE EXAMPLE?
Hi Nitin,
Since March 2020 I didn’t get any salary and I used my savings in stock market,I made some profits but my losses are much more than that, usually I am doing BTST and options buying my profits are below 2.5 lakh, do I have tax liability??
Hi Anoop,
Since March 2020 I didn’t get any salary and I used my savings in stock market,I made some profits but my losses are much more than that, usually I am doing BTST and options buying my profits are below 2.5 lakh, do I have tax liability??
If you are profits are less than 2.5 Lacs, then there is no tax liability.
Hi,
My Salary is – Rs. 500000/-
Short term capital gains from deliver based equity – Rs. 31443/-
Profits from F&O trading – Rs. 579377/-
Can you please tell me,what will be the Tax to be paid?
Until now I have been filing ITR 4 for my professional income under presumptive tax. Since I have started day trading along with my profession, I want to know the following.
Can I still file ITR 4? If not, then what form I have use to show my both the income? Can I still use presumptive tax provision for my professional income (this is my main query) and on day trading income separately or not? I know that on day trading, I will need to show my actual profit or loss so that is not the issue. My gross professional income is around 6 lakhs.
Hi Revanasidda,
My Salary is – Rs. 500000/-
Short term capital gains from deliver based equity – Rs. 31443/-
Profits from F&O trading – Rs. 579377/-
Can you please tell me, what will be the Tax to be paid?
Based on the info, assumed given details are net taxable income.
As per new regime – tax is Rs 1,01,042/-
As per old regime – tax is 1,51,563/-
Under old regime; tax will reduce if you include any Chapter VI-A deductions.
Check this..https://incometaxindia.gov.in/Pages/tools/income-tax-calculator-234ABC.aspx
Sir I make short term capital gain from stock market 900000 rs in my wife account. She invest in lic and mediclaim 90000 rs. investment in elss fund 60000 rs. There is no other income. How much tax she has to pay. Will you please explain in detail sir. Thanks
Hi Vijay Patel,
Sir I make short term capital gain from stock market 900000 rs in my wife account.
She invest in lic and mediclaim 90000 rs. investment in elss fund 60000 rs.
There is no other income. How much tax she has to pay. Will you please explain in detail sir. Thanks
You cannot claim Chapter VI-A deductions LIC and Investment in ELSS(80C) against Short Term Capital Gains.
So, total taxable income will be Rs 9 Lacs.
Upto Rs 2.5 Lacs – there won’t be any tax.
For Balance Rs 6.5 Lacs – 15% tax shall apply i.e Rs 97500/- (6.5Lacs*15%)
Add 4% cess to 97500/- i.e 3900/-
Total Tax – Rs 1,01,400/-
Trade on MTF settle through the demat holding follows FIFO even the transaction is short period in MTF. Result in long term capital loss/gain because holding is older and again the fresh purchase rate will be consider for next transaction and like that. Is is ok.
Suppose my intraday trading turnover is 10 crore p.a. and my income is 12 Lakhs p.a.,then:
1. Should the accounts be audited?
2. Can your company do the tax formalities on payment of necessary fee?
If the Turn over of my Option trading under (F&O segment) for FY 2020-21 is above 1 cr but lesser than 2 cr and profit earned is lesser than 6% though all trading is done with Zerodha account, please let me know if still I have to go for Tax Audit or not. Thanks in advance.
Hi Nitin Bansal,
If the Turn over of my Option trading under (F&O segment) for FY 2020-21 is above 1 cr but lesser than 2 cr and profit earned is lesser than 6% though all trading is done with Zerodha account, please let me know if still I have to go for Tax Audit or not. Thanks in advance.
If you had FNO/Business Income in the previous year(FY2019-20) and you had NOT opted for presumptive taxation scheme to declare such FNO/Business Income ; then AUDIT is NOT applicable in FY 2020-21.
Audit is applicable in below scenario:
if you had FNO Income for any previous years and you were declaring under presumptive scheme under section 44AD; (meaning currently you are in presumptive scheme upto FY 2019-20)
now if you are opting OUT of presumptive scheme in FY 2020-21 and your FNO Income is less than 6%(meaning either in loss or in profits less than 6%) but total income is greater than basic exemption limit; then you have maintain books of accounts and get the AUDIT done
Hi Sanjay Goel,
Suppose my intraday trading turnover is 10 crore p.a. and my income is 12 Lakhs p.a.,then:
1. Should the accounts be audited? – If turnover is more than 10 Cr; then audit is applicable.
2. Can your company do the tax formalities on payment of necessary fee? Try this…https://quicko.com/
Hi,
i have a job and my tax p&l for FY2020-2021 from zerodha shows
Intraday/Speculative profit 0
Short Term profit -2785.5
Long Term profit 0
which itr form should i choose? i thought of putting it under speculative business income but itr3 is very hectic, and that too a for loss. now if i choose itr 2 as choose short term capital gain can i put things under speculative business income next year(can i change itr2->3 next year?) because i started intraday trading this year. or shall i leave these stuff and choose itr 1 because p&l is anyway insubstantial
my net income below 2 lakhs & STCG is 54k still i need to pay tax @ 15% on stcg or need not to pay as per tax slab my net income is less.
Nitin, you have answered the first question here by saying, ‘But if your net income for the year is above 2.5lks and if you make a trading loss (F&O or intraday equity), yep you need to get an audit.’
This means that practically everyone might have to get an audit (incl Salaried people who trade). Am I right in my conclusion?
Hi Divyanshu Shekhar,
i have a job and my tax p&l for FY2020-2021 from zerodha shows
Intraday/Speculative profit 0
Short Term profit -2785.5
Long Term profit 0
which itr form should i choose? i thought of putting it under speculative business income but itr3 is very hectic, and that too a for loss. now if i choose itr 2 as choose short term capital gain can i put things under speculative business income next year(can i change itr2->3 next year?) because i started intraday trading this year. or shall i leave these stuff and choose itr 1 because p&l is anyway not substantial
In your case; you need to fill ITR-2 as you have Short Term Capital Loss.
Next year, if you have Intraday Gains/Loss – use ITR-3; you can change the form n file the ITR-3.
Hi Avi,
my net income below 2 lakhs & STCG is 54k still i need to pay tax @ 15% on stcg or need not to pay as per tax slab my net income is less.
Tax will be @ 15%. Upto 2.5 Lacs – there is no tax. On 4K – it will be 15%. However you can claim rebate on that tax amount.
Is there any mathod / strategy to treat / convert LTC loss of shares into trading / business loss for the purpose of setting them off against Short term business income (STCG + jobbing)? Can we show in ITR the shares sold after 1 year as trading stock / shares when we had not shown any closing stock-in-trade during the past year?
Also how to show the loss of shares purchased long back which are neither been traded nor are expected to resume trading in the future?
Dear Nithin sir,
Which is better option for taxation point of view for stock trading Individual or Pvt. Ltd. firm
Pls guide whether currency futures and commodity futures gains are to be treated as speculative or non-speculative business income for the purpose of taxation.
I’m NRI (middle east) with no current taxation liability.
I’m filing ITR for the 1st year due to only income viz. 1) short term equity delivery = 2.4 L & 2)Option = 2.3 L.
What has happened is that for equity delivery, (STCG) got applied @ flat X% was deducted by bank as TDS (from NRE account).
For F&O, considering higher tax bracket, flat Y% was deducted as TDS by bank from NRO account.
Now i intend to file ITR-3 for recovery of my excess TDS cut.
a) As both the income were less than 2.5L (min. taxable criteria) and taxes are deducted by different methods (ad-hoc% & slab),
what i understand is that I don’t have any tax liability as flat STCG is cut on equity and option income is < 2.5L.
b) In case I combine both (equity & F&O income) i.e. 4.7L, won't i be paying tax twice for equity i.e. flat x% and then tax deduction due to inclusion in tax slab?
I made 45 Lac in short term equity trade and lost all and additional 2 Lac in intraday equity trade. Do I have to pay STCG on 45 Lac even if net I am in 2 lac loss.
Pls help
Sir, i have stcg from equity between 2.5 lakh and 5 lakh . I have no other income, how is tax calculated in this particular case
Where did this Rs.185,000 come from?
“Total tax = Rs.185,000 + Rs.15,000 = Rs.200,000/-”
Wasn’t it Rs.172,000?
ref: “Hence total tax : 25,000 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-“
Ref para 5.2 in the article and please look the calculation of total Tax. Rs 12500 might have been typed as Rs 25000 Which created a lot of confusion. Further, please comment taxability on Senior citizen.
Hi Sir, Can FnO charges be carried forward?
Hi Abhishek,
Hi Sir, Can FnO charges be carried forward?
Yes, FNO charges are allowable as deduction. You can claim and carry forward if you are having loss.
Under para 5.2, tax amount 1,85,000 is wrong…… Please amend it.
I have loss in short term frequent trading ,loss in fno trading and profit in intraday how to calculate turn over of short term frequent trading. Short term sale value is 1.3 cr.
My salary – Rs.900,000/-
Short term capital gains from delivery based equity – Rs.10,000/-
Loss from F&O trading – Rs.2000/-
Intraday equity trading – Rs.100/-
Which ITR form should i fill?
Dear sir,
Kindly advise me for the audit requirements, is it compulsory for me to get audit before filling ITR provided ;
Income from other sources Rs 45000
Loss from F&O Rs 1700000 (turnover is Rs 47,00,000)
Loss from Intraday Rs 250000 (Turnover Rs 42,00,000)
Dividend Rs 3000
STCG profit 20000
Kindly advise,
Thanks with regards,
Sir my salary income RS 310000
Profit from option trading 165000 turnover 45 lakhs for fy 2020-2021 stcg 15000 fd interest 36000 can my account get audited
Hi Nitin,
Is there any government portal or software which automatically tells you the F&O turnover and profit/loss earned for the year like for tds we have Form 26AS ? Although I have zerodha account, m using another broker’s account.
Do we have to pay taxes on grossprofit or net profit after deducting chgs as per p&l statement of zarodha. My ca is taking gross profit for taxation
I am presently doing online trading and has no salary income this FY. What % of intraday and delivery trading profit, do I have to pay through ITR assuming, the trading profit made by me during this year is approximately say 15 lakh.
However, there is no sale off of Mutual funds.
Tnx
Hi Vandana,
I am presently doing online trading and has no salary income this FY.
What % of intraday and delivery trading profit, do I have to pay through ITR assuming, the trading profit made by me during this year is approximately say 15 lakh.
However, there is no sale off of Mutual funds.
Delivery trading profit is taxed @ 15% incase of Short Term and 10% in case of Long Term exceeding Rs 1 Lacs.
Intraday Profit is taxed as per slab rates.
What if I quit trading for any reason … Like I traded till sept and paid advance tax accordingly but then for whatsoever reason I did quit it … What will happen to taxation ???
HI Chetan,
What if I quit trading for any reason … Like I traded till sept and paid advance tax accordingly but then for whatsoever reason I did quit it … What will happen to taxation ???
If advance tax is excess paid, you can claim refund by filing the return.
Hi Nithin,
I have @75k gain as STCG and @60k loss in non speculative business (fno & currency) in this financial year, can this be set off?
As this article mentioned, non speculative losses can be set off against capital gain and bank interest in the same year.
Appreciate your quick response.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Deepa
Hi Deepa,
I have @75k gain as STCG and @60k loss in non speculative business (fno & currency) in this financial year, can this be set off?
As this article mentioned, non speculative losses can be set off against capital gain and bank interest in the same year.
Yes, current year FNO loss can be set off against all incomes except Salary.
Taking and keeping position in f&o for more than one year.
Will this capital gain fall under long term.?
Hi Hamid,
Taking and keeping position in f&o for more than one year.
Will this capital gain fall under long term.?
Usually FNO position expires in one month. There is no capital gain.
FNO always falls under Business Income.
Hii my f&o turnover is 90laks
And profit is 20 thousands in year
So I need tax audit
1.i am student
2.Yearly income zero
My query is regarding the tax treatment of calendar spread. If loss making leg of transactions is closed in this FY and profit making leg is closed in next FY, then should the two transactions to be covered separately in the two FYs for taxation purposes. Or should I report unrealized profits in this FY.
Are there any rules in this regard?
Thanks
Further, is the treatment different for calendar spread of option vs future…..Thanks
Hi Rajesh Sharma,
My query is regarding the tax treatment of calendar spread. If loss making leg of transactions is closed in this FY and profit making leg is closed in next FY, then should the two transactions to be covered separately in the two FYs for taxation purposes. Or should I report unrealized profits in this FY.
Only REALISED profit or loss should be included in Income Tax Computation.
The 2 transactions should be included in their respective years.
Hi Nithin,
I have few hypothetical case in how tax rebate is calculated
1. Since dividends and trading income(intra day + F&O) are taxed at normal tax slabs, does the 80C and housing loan interest deductions applicable on this
2. If I have salary income+business income (basically future trading)+dividend less than 5 lakhs after 80c deductions and housing loan interest, is the amount eligible for tax rebate of 12500/-
3. If I have regular slab income such as salary+trading+dividend and special slab income such as ltcg+stcg, but still the total income less than 5 lakhs, how the rebate is calculated.
a. Is it each income taxed at its respective rate and rebate of 12500/- applied or
b. Only Salary(including dividend & trading) is calculated for rebate
Thanks
Sir, I am a teacher in a state government aided school. My doubt is –
1) Am I allowed to do trading beside my job?
2) If I am allowed, how I should pay taxes of salary income and trading income -separately or combined? Plz clarify..
I am a NRI. What would the tax slabs be for trading then? Is it any different?
Hi Dhaval Shah,
I am a NRI. What would the tax slabs be for trading then? Is it any different
Tax slabs are same for NRI which is applicable for Resident Individual (age upto 60 years)
i have given my wife rs 3 lac for trading last year but her profit from both intraday and delivery is below rs 2.5 lac. does she needs to file itr. and how will she depict her source of capital rs 3 lac which i have given her
My total loss 1 lakh in option trading. My salary is 3.3 lakh ctc. Do i need to pay tax and is there any audit need?
My income from salary is 875000.
My Intraday profit is 59800 and turnover is 119000.
And my Short term profit is 8750000and turnover is 2.14cr .
Do I have to tax audit.
Please guide….
My income from salary is 875000.
My Intraday profit is 59800 and turnover is 119000.
And my Short term profit is 875000 and turnover is 2.14cr .
Do I have to tax audit.
Please guide….
Reply
Hi MK,
My income from salary is 875000.
My Intraday profit is 59800 and turnover is 119000.
And my Short term profit is 875000 and turnover is 2.14cr .
Do I have to tax audit?
Since the turnover is less than the threshold limit, no tax audit is applicable. [Assume you are not opting out of presumptive scheme in the current year].
If profit from option trading is 1 cr annually….How much tax I have to pay
(Not any other income source)
Hi Shwetha,
If profit from option trading is 1 cr annually….How much tax I have to pay?
You have to pay as per your slabs…https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/pages/tools/income-tax-calculator.aspx
I have booked the short term profits approx 1.6 lacs. And this is the only source of income for this financial year.
What will be the tax on my income?
Hi Kanchan Damor,
I have booked the short term profits approx 1.6 lacs. And this is the only source of income for this financial year.
What will be the tax on my income?
No tax as STCG is less than the basic threshold limit of 2.5Lacs.
Hello Team,
i need help for my query.
My salaried income is 10lakhs
My Loan term capital gain is 10lakhs
My Loss from F&O trading is 10Lakhs
So total tax payable is Salaried( Capital gain +F&0 Trading ) right ?
So 10lakhs ( 10lakhs -10lakhs )
10lakhs – 0
Finally 10lakhs right ?
If total net gain is 0- do i still need to claim the ITR 2 for the above scenario ?
I dont have any job. I trade in both cash and derivatives.
Suppose:
Short term capital gain =50k
Long term capital gain = 60 k
F&O income = 100k
How will I be taxed?
Are the details related to carry forward of losses valid under the new tax regime?
I am a salaried person. I fill itr_1. How do I show my income from stock sell
My salary is 5.4L
F&o turnover:13L
Profit: 1k
Do i need to audit or not?
How to pay advance tax through Zerodha app. Kindly guide.
Salary income is 2.27 lakh which is below exemption limit but f&o profit is upto 6 lakh. Is the person liable to pay tax ?
I have earned 12k from swing trade i.e STCG and I am under 2.5L income for the current financial year. Do I have to pay any advance tax? Kindly reply asap as the last date for advance tax I think is on 15 March.
If I am an individual who doesn’t have any annual income / currently not employed, or I have income less than 5 lacs INR , do I need to pay taxes for income generated through mutual funds or stock trading ?
Hi Nithin,
As I understood
Turnover of Options = Absolute Profit + Premium on Sale of Options
Does same applies in case of option selling also? Because in option selling we receive premium in our account and then when we buy back options we conclude net P/L which is taken as absolute. Can you please clarify?
1. Can intraday F&O losses be set off against short term capital gains? In same period ONLY or next year also?
2. Can short-term F&O losses be set off against short term capital gains? In same period ONLY or next year also?
I have received a notice for high value transactions, which the IT department says that don’t appear in my return filed. However, after checking the transactions shown in the compliance portal, I could see that except one (which belong to other person), all the transactions are already reported either individually or at aggregate level in the return. Now I am confused between two options: information is duplicate vs information is correct. Since all these items are correct, but already covered in the filed return, should I select information is duplicate. Or as all information are actually correct, I should simply say it is correct. I hope these information are not going to be considered twice as I have already covered in my return. Unfortunately there is no option given that information is correct, and already covered in the return filed.
Suppose my intraday profit 50000/- and short term profit 300000/- how much tax I need to be paid
I am a new trader,I’m a Nri,but trading through NRO bank account , just made a profit of 25 k for this financial year ,should I audit and pay tax ,if so how much approximately.
My husband income
Salary = 1000000
Short term gain in stocks( delivery ) = 10000
To kitana income tax lagega?
Hello dear Nithin,
I am UAE worker, Salary is near by 90k in INR.
I am also doing trading in zerodha from last 3 years. Only these two income sources i have.
And this is first time i am going to touch ITR.
Please clear me that
I am going to tell trading as a bussiness income.
Then i am only eligible for tax when my trading profit will reach 2.5 lk.
Or
I have to consider my salary together and have to pay tax on lower profit also
Dear Sir,
Currently, I own a business and getting a salary from my business.
I have some agricultural land from which I get some other income.
I also trade options regularly and have income from that. I do not trade equity and If I buy a stock I usually sell it after 1-2 years or very rarely.
So my options income gets classified as business income and is taxed at 30%. How do I tackle my options income? I know it is taxed at 30%. But what else can I do about it? Can I claim expenses on this?
If someone make 1 crore profit in commodities in one bay by F&O .
Then how tax will paid by this person?
Hi Nithin Sir
Do we need to pay tax on every transaction or only when we withdraw the Money from Demat account
Sir plz tell !!
Intraday turnover below Rs. 1 Lac.Delivery trades turnover Rs.40 lacs.Total profit in the FY 2021-22 is Rs.4.19 lacs before all expenses.Other incomes after rebate U/S 80C Rs.58000.Audit is must.Can i declare profit at 6 percent of turnover. I have not paid any advance tax.My total income will be less than Rs 5 lacs.Shall i be required to pay any penalty for not paying advance tax which otherwise is not due. Which ITR form to file.
Hi, I am confused with the tax calculation given in the example – > https://zerodha.com/varsity/chapter/taxation-for-traders/#:~:text=5.2%20%E2%80%93%20Taxation%20of%20trading/business%20income
My understanding is I have to classify all my income from the stock market as either business income or capital gain. If this is the case, why I have to pay 15% STCG on the Rs 100,000 I earned from short-term trades. Shouldn’t this income also should be added to other income and taxed together with other income?
Why there is no proof reading?
You are talking about finance !!
1,000,000 – 1,200,000: 30% – Rs.60,000/-
Interest from bond income comes with interest income or business income or capital gain?
HI Kannapiran,
Interest from bond income comes with interest income or business income or capital gain?
It is taxable under the Head “Income from Other Sources”.
Hmmm if I make profit I need to pay tax over and above transaction taxes etc. But if I make the same loss no govt will give.. hmm if I make profit I have to pay tax on profit and build house, same time if I loose my house by trading loss none will give nothing what a logic hmmm
Hey, I am analysing the computation that I got from uploading taxpnl from zerodha on Clear tax. And this is my first time filing it and I found that the computation did not counted/considered any expense whatsoever – Expenses being all transaction charges & Brokerage,STT, etc. It just gave the gross profit/loss as the total P & L. Hence, I am confused whether the platform is wrong or it is that expenses are not counted in my case. NOTE : I am trading under Retail account(not under corporate) and a salaried employee. ZERODHA can u kindly clear the fact that if a salaried employee while filing ITR 3 can claim expenses such as brokerage , STT, transaction charges etc. (Specify the expenses if u want)!
I know its written everywhere that WE can claim expenses but its not clear who is ‘WE’ here. Are everyone included in ‘WE” or its just the business account(who have incorporated business entity).
Appreciate that you took time out from your busy schedule to reply! Thank You
Hey, I am also analysing the computation that I got from uploading taxpnl from zerodha on Clear tax. And this is my first time filing it and I found that the computation did not counted/considered any expense whatsoever – Expenses being all transaction charges & Brokerage,STT, etc. It just gave the gross profit/loss as the total P & L. Hence, I am confused whether the platform is wrong or it is that expenses are not counted in my case. NOTE : I am trading under Retail account(not under corporate) and a salaried employee. Zerodha can u kindly clear the fact that if a salaried employee while filing ITR 3 can claim expenses such as brokerage , STT, transaction charges etc. (Specify the expenses if u want)!
I know its written everywhere that WE can claim expenses but its not clear who is ‘WE’ here. Are everyone included in ‘WE” or its just the business account(who have incorporated business entity).
Appreciate that you took time out from your busy schedule to reply! Thank You
Sir , I have intraday this year I file itr 3 can I file itr 2 next year if I have no intraday and f&o
Hi,
My turnover is 6.5 Cr (99.5% non-cash transactions) which is less than 10 Cr for permissible cases. Profit is 10 Lakh. Do I need to get audit done? I read that audit is mandatory if taxable income less than 6% of turnover?
Also, note that I got accounts audited in last two years (turn over: FY 20: 1 Cr and FY 21: 6 Cr in those y), but if possible i wish to opt out of audit this year onward. I had a loss in FY 20, and profit of 17 L in FY 21 (not filed under presumptive taxation)
Hi,
I started trading in FY 20, and has filed trading income as business income (rather than STCG). Till FY 21, I never had sold any stock after holding it longer than 1 yr. In FY 22, I sold shares both with holding period less than 1 yr and more than 1 yr (first time ever). Can I continue to classify former (less than 1 yr) as business income but LTCG for those held for more than 1 yr.
All these transaction are done from same zerodha account.
sir actually im quite confused with my ITR filling
sir actually my dads zerodha account has trades with short term trades and intraday trades with a turnover of 1.67cr for fy2021/2022 and all with a loss of around 2lks in both segments including 50k charges
so sir should i get a audit or not and if audit then in which head should i file my ITR in stcl or buisness loss
or persumptive buisness income please reply fast sir
If there is F&O losses and volume is high but transactions are not frequently taken. And my taxable income fall below the basic exemption limit. Can I show the F&O losses under Capital gains.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in Advance
In case of trading shown as business income, for how many years can I claim depreciation for the same laptop?
Y1 – 40% depreciation
Y2 – Again 40% depreciation? Is it on the original invoice value? or the already depreciated value after Y1?
My income from salary is 1,56,000 and I have made loss from Intraday Trading. My trading turnover is 26000. Do i have to file ITR?.
Can we claim expenses in business income from gross realized profit or net realized profit?
Is dream 11 speculative income? And if yes, then on what amount tax is calculated?
Total winning – total loss = net winning or only total winning or amount that i withdrawal in bank?
Please help
If I make 1 lakhs profit in a month and I purchase share of all of my profit.
This type I made profit of rs 12 lakhs in a year. And I didn’t cash my profit into my bank account.
I purchased share of all of my profit 12 lakhs.
And then I sell those share After 3 years at approx 18 lakhs rupees.
Then How much Total tax I have to pay.
Hey Nithin how much tax exemption benefit we can take for charges is there any limit ? Its showing 24L gross profit by adding 10.9L on charges. Can I get all 10.9L back or is there any limit ? If there is any limit please clarify !
When is the tax applied? On immediate P&L or on profit remaining after deduction of brokerage, GST and other regulatory charges?
Can a public sector employee do non-speculative trading?
I would like some advice on the below
For the financial year,
How would i calculate my tax provided.
Equity – I have a profit of 1,20,000
F&O- I have a loss of 30,000.
I am a salaried person, How would I calculate my tax liability, in this situation where my annual income from my job is 4.5L per annum.
My intraday turnover in 7.17 lakh and intraday loss is 1.7 lakh. But my itr show profit 4 lakh and my salary income 4.7 lakh. Can pay on tax this case
If my only source of income is profit from stock market and it’s less than 5 lac in a year from short term capital gains.. Would i still be liable to pay taxes??
Sir I have turn over in option 22 lakhs as per zerodha and net loss of 8 lakh then
Is audit is compulsory?
My salary is 4.5 lakhs per annum
My option trading turnover is 25 L
Gross profit is 3.83 L
Charges 2.97 L
Net profit 86 thousands.
Should i pay advance tax?
Is tax audit applicable for me ?
Which charges can be claimed as expenses in tax filling?
Please reply sir. Very counfusing.
Whether the limit is 2 crore or 5 crore as written in this blog?
Presumptive turnover in this budget they have increased from 2 to 3 cr.
While calculating speculation tax – can you include the brokrage and related expenses as cost of acquisition
While calculating speculation tax – can you include the brokerage and related expenses as cost of acquisition? – While calculating Speculative Income; you can include brokerage and related expenses.
I would like some advice on the below
For the financial year,
How would i calculate my tax provided.
Equity – I have a profit of 1,20,000
F&O- I have a loss of 30,000.
I am a salaried person, How would I calculate my tax liability, in this situation where my annual income from my job is 4.5L per annum.
Hi,
For the financial year, How would i calculate my tax provided.
Equity – I have a profit of 1,20,000
F&O- I have a loss of 30,000.
I am a salaried person, How would I calculate my tax liability, in this situation where my annual income from my job is 4.5L per annum.
Your F&O Loss of 30K can be set off against Equity Profit of 1.2 Lacs.
Net Equity will be 90K.
Salary Income of 4.5 Lacs gets taxed as per the slab rates. Upto 2.5 Lacs – it will be exempt and balance 2 Lacs – tax @ 5% will apply.
Equity will be taxed @ 15% if it is STCG and no tax if it is Long Term Capital Gain.
@ Nithin sir in case of F&O, the closing price for P&L purposes for open positions as on 31st March should be closing price as on 31st March or rollover price if I had done rollover of the open position from earlier month contract?
Hi Piyush,
in case of F&O, the closing price for P&L purposes for open positions as on 31st March should be closing price as on 31st March or rollover price if I had done rollover of the open position from earlier month contract?
For the purpose of P&L, you need to consider the actual price(i.e the rollover if you had done rollover from the earlier month contract)
Closing price as on 31st March should not be considered because there will be notional loss/gain.
Sir, If I trade in F&O ,Is it compulsory to pay advance tax even if I not profit much?
Hi Debasish Mondal,
Sir, If I trade in F&O ,Is it compulsory to pay advance tax even if I not profit much? – If your overall tax liability is more than Rs 10,000; then pls pay advance tax.
Hi, majority of my trades are delivery based trades in cash market and some are intraday. I DO NOT trade in FnO.
Can I file the profit that I have made from delivery based trading in Business Income instead of STCG?
Hi Azeem Vijlee,
Hi, majority of my trades are delivery based trades in cash market and some are intraday. I DO NOT trade in FnO.
Can I file the profit that I have made from delivery based trading in Business Income instead of STCG? – Yes, you can that but you need to declare the same as Business Income for future years also.
Further, since all the transactions are getting tracked in AIS/TIS. You need to give the response in Compliance Portal.
Refer this circular https://incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular-no-6.pdf
Hi Nithin,
I`m based in Australia (now an Australian Citizen with OCI)
I wish to trade in F&O with Non-PIS option using NRO account.
Question:
a) How does the tax applies to NRI who are purely trading in F& O, hope that is considered as business income.
b) Also, what if equity trading with Short or Long term capital gain tax? is that too considered as business income?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Shreyan,
I`m based in Australia (now an Australian Citizen with OCI)
I wish to trade in F&O with Non-PIS option using NRO account.
Question:
a) How does the tax applies to NRI who are purely trading in F& O, hope that is considered as business income. – Yes, FNO Income will be considered as Business Income irrespective of the residential status and tax will be paid as per the slab rates.
b) Also, what if equity trading with Short or Long term capital gain tax? is that too considered as business income? – Equity will be treated as Short Term/Long Term depending upon on the period of holding. You can declare it as Business Income – if you do so/thinking do so; you need to declare it as Business Income only in all the future years at the time of filing of income tax return.
if annual package is around 32 lacs per annum & profit in options is 1550000. what will be tax on options? of breakup of taxes?
Hi Kashish Bhardwaj,
if annual package is around 32 lacs per annum & profit in options is 1550000. what will be tax on options? of breakup of taxes?
Tax on Options will be 31.2% i.e Rs 4,83,600/- (Rs 465000 Tax; Rs 18600 Cess)
Hi sir,
In F.Y 2022-23 my income from salary is 3.2L and my intraday turnover is 25k and incurred a loss of 20k. Is tax audit applicable to me?
HI Chirag,
Hi sir,
In F.Y 2022-23 my income from salary is 3.2L and my intraday turnover is 25k and incurred a loss of 20k. Is tax audit applicable to me?
No, not applicable; Please fill ITR-3 and declare the details under Schedule-PL.
Sir I am trading with zerodha from last 3 years..I have a loss of around 75 laks..plz tell me I have to pay the tax on losses too.or ..there is no need to describe this to my ca..at my income tax return time
Hi Amit,
Sir I am trading with zerodha from last 3 years..I have a loss of around 75 laks..plz tell me I have to pay the tax on losses too.or ..there is no need to describe this to my ca..at my income tax return time – There is no need to pay tax and but better to declare this loss.
Hi, I want to know if we can Set off the loss in options trading against STCG in equity Trading…
Thanks in Advance.
Hi Sumit,
Hi, I want to know if we can Set off the loss in options trading against STCG in equity Trading? – Yes, current year FNO loss can be set off against STCG in equity trading. It can be set off against all incomes except Salary.
Hi Karthik,
If my overall income is 12,00,000/- Should I need to pay taxes from 5%to30% as mentioned in the chapter below. So am I paying taxes under each slab? Could you please explain.
I now have to pay tax on Rs 12,00,000/- based on the tax slab –
0 – Rs.250,000 : 0% – Nil
250,000 – Rs.500,000 : 5% – Rs.12,500/-
500,000 – Rs.1,000,000 : 20% – Rs.100,000/-,
1,000,000 – 1,200,000: 30% – Rs.60,000/-
Hence total tax : 12,500 + Rs.100,000 + Rs.60,000 = Rs.172,500/-
HI Srini,
If my overall income is 12,00,000/- Should I need to pay taxes from 5%to30% as mentioned in the chapter below. So am I paying taxes under each slab?
Your tax will be calculated as follows:
Upto 2.5 Lacs – NIL
2.5 Lacs to 5 Lacs – 12,500/-
5 Lacs to 10 Lacs – 100,000/-
Balance 2 Lacs – 60000/-
Total Tax – 172500/-
I have three sources of income
1. salary
2. FD interest
3. equity intraday
TDS is deducted by bank on FD interest now I need refund of this which form shall I fill?
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Can i set off intraday loss against short term capital gains?
I have salary income and delivery and only intraday income.i am not doing F&O.whether tax audit will be applicable to me.what is the limit for tax audit for a person whose income from salary and delivery and only intraday (not f&o).please
Hi
If I don’t have any income other than short term capital gain and it is below 2.5 lakh limit. Do i have to file itr and pay taxes.
Hi Rahul Kumar,
If I don’t have any income other than short term capital gain and it is below 2.5 lakh limit. Do i have to file itr and pay taxes?
It is optional if your income is less than 2.5 Lacs
Can itraday be taxed as presumptive
Sir, I receive money from my husband, who is working in saudi arabia as a technician.
He sends money in my account.
I invest idle money in buying shares.
Sometimes, I receive dividends and sometimes I sell shares to book little bit profit.
But my total profit is not bigger than 50k in last one year.
Do I need to file ITR ?
I never filed ITR so this is very new thing for me.
Hi Sir,
I have purchase some share of housing development finance in 2010 and now the company demerge with hdfc bank and i get the share of hdfc bank in my demat in july 2023 now if i sell those share it will consider as long term capital gain or short term capital gain.
What is income.
Regarding Section 44AD,
Can the turnovers of equity F&O, currency F&O and commodity F&O be clubbed together? Or they are considered separately?
wdcwdcwd
from last november 2014, my turnover is more then 3 crores and overall I have incurred a total loss upto 5 lakhs. I did a lot of intraday trades and no longterm investment. do I incur any penalty for non-declarations? what all should I send to the CA? Just the profit and loss statment from start of november until now?
last year I purchased 10000 Rs share and after 10 month I sold it approx 13000 (3000 profit). I was thinking it is 30% return. But after stt stcg, dp, brokere etc it was around 2300 profit only. STCG Wipeout my most of profit.
Hi
I started with 2L CAPITAL. AND MADE PROFIT OF 2L . Toal 4L . Then I loose 3,60,000 . Balance. 40,000. Which i withdraw. (ALL TRADE WAS IN OPTIONS)
So my carried forward loss will be 1,60,000 OR 3,60,000
I have 1 Lakh intraday profit and 1 lakh FnO loss. I know it can set-off with each other and I need not to pay tax. But If i want to carry forward my loss of 1 lakh of FnO, Can I do that?? Please reply. Thank You
Hi Hansa Tiwari
I have 1 Lakh intraday profit and 1 lakh FnO loss. I know it can set-off with each other and I need not to pay tax. But If i want to carry forward my loss of 1 lakh of FnO, Can I do that?? Please reply. Thank You
You cannot do that; because it is an Intra-Head Set off; it will get automatically set off. Thanks
Sir, I have started f&o trading for 4 months and in those 4 months I have made a loss of 10000 ₹, should I submit advance ITR tax file now?
Hi Gopal,
Sir, I have started f&o trading for 4 months and in those 4 months I have made a loss of 10000 ₹, should I submit advance ITR tax file now?
No, you can file ITR only after 31st March of respective year; there is no concept of Advance ITR. Thanks
hello Nitin Sir, i started Intraday trading in 2021 with capital of 3,70,000 my Intraday turnover is 6,14,000 and overall I have incurred a loss of 4.33 lakhs. I did a lot of intraday trades and no longterm investment, but my accountant informed me as per income tax i made profit of 29,00,000 and i need to 10,00,000 as income tax, i also saw a youtube video in which it is said if in Intraday i make 10000 profit one day and 20000 loss as per income tax it is 30000 profit , i checked my tax P&L in zerodha and got the above intraday turnover and intraday loss , I am very worried as it is lost my capital and now if i have to pay 10,00,000 additional as tax can you can please solve my inquiry about intraday tax…… I am really worried pls sir
Man lo mene 20 lcs earning ki hai stock trading me ek saal me to mujhe kitna tax pay karna hoga only stock trading short term capital gain tax.
please remove comments till 2022 as recent comment were required as tax system is totally change from 2015
Hi
My total sale value for fy 2022 to 2023 is Rs 45Cr
My profit and loss summation is Rs25 lakh
My total.loss id Rs1lakh
My stt paid is Rs1.5lakh
Can I carry forward loss
Whether I should do audit
if i added 10 lakh to zerodha , i profited on F&O 5 LAKH in a year
so, tax is applicable on 5 lakh or 15 lakh
Hi Veer,
if i added 10 lakh to zerodha , i profited on F&O 5 LAKH in a year
so, tax is applicable on 5 lakh or 15 lakh
Tax is applicable on FNO profit of 5 Lacs.
Thank you for sharing this information. know how to file ITR 2 Form Online easily with help of Excellent CA firm.
Sir can i set off f&o profit with other business loss.??
I have 5 to 6 lakhs in my demat and i keep buying and selling stocks worth all the money within a month taking my transactions over 50 to 70 lakhs but my profit from all these transactions is only 30 to 40 thousand.Do i need to pay tax for buying and selling stocks which is increasing my transactions.
PS : I am only using those 5 lakhs again and again for buying and selling.
I have a question regarding tax Treatment of Trade to Trade stocks. How will the capital gain be calculated in this case as the stock has been sold and the same has been bought back the same day. Also what will be the treatment in case of stock sold in AUCTION and bought back the same day? As delivery will take place the next day for both the trades. For example , I have participated in AUCTION and sold around 10,000 shares of IDFC First Bank and bought it back and taken delivery for the same number. Please clarify as this will unnecessarily complicate tax treatment.
I have businesses gain of rs 50 lakh and loss of 50 lakh in share market. Do I need to pay tax.
Hi..while arriving at the profit or loss for filing ITR, should we consider the P & L as per the tax P&l report from zerodha or should we make any additions or adjustments from it?
Hi sir, I want to know if I have made a profit of let’s say 10 lakhs over a year so I’ll be liable to pay 10% LTCG. So after that remaining amount is my white money right?
Second situation let’s say I am earning 1 lakh per month through trading and I am paying 18% STCG every time, so after that do I have to pay anymore tax ?
Can stt brokerages can be offset from fno trading profit
If me and my partner doing govt. can we do trading intraday ,positional , F&O.
Hi Sir
I am a long term investor my profit as on date is more than 70 k my salry income is for the year 3,85,000 do i need to pay income tax.
Regardas
Raveesh
Vikram rathod nam to suna hi hoga
Realised P&L = +2.19L
Total Charges = 2.46L
Net Realized P & L = -27.18k
Please let me know should I disclose as Profit or loss while filing ITR. Most of my profit drain because of charges.
Sir if I warn 1 crore from f and o trading how much I will pay tax. If I don’t have other income source
Hi,
1. Is it correct that every person whose estimated tax liability for the year is less than Rs. 10,000 is exempt from paying advance tax.
2. Also are senior citizens above 60 years of age exempt from paying advance tax if they do not have any income from business or profession. If yes then can I show my short term gain from sale of equity shares (delivery) as STCG and pay 15% tax. I am a senior citizen for the assessment year 2024-25
Hi,
Above article is amazing still have a question.
My in hand salary is 11 lac and profit in demat show 23 lac. Do I need to pay tax on 34 lac according to normal tax slab?
My loss is around 16 lacs in trading this year, what I am supposed to pay income tax if I profit 16 lacs in the next year in trading
I am a student (not working either), I have been trading in zerodha for past 4 years, and in last year I have made a profit of 8 lakhs, only from intraday equity trading, I don’t know about this income tax and all, can anyone guide me?, should I do file my pnl for income tax department?
what if trading and investing is my only source of income and I made a profit of 6 lakhs(intraday + F&O) this year. Then tax is to paid according to the slab or any other way??
Sir, my question is still different not from the income tax.
Is GST Registration is required in any type of trading activity (intraday,f&o)?
Hi Anupama,
Sir, my question is still different not from the income tax.
Is GST Registration is required in any type of trading activity (intraday,f&o)?
GST registration is not required if you are only trading in FNO.
One general query on Adv Tax on equity..
Suppose today my STCG is 4 lacs.. I am supposed to pay 100% adv tax that is 15%…Rs 60k
However, I can see Carry forward Losses Rs 1 lac from previous year.. in that case.. Can I pay 15%on 3 lacs or
I must pay advance tax on 4 lac and during ITR file , I am supposed to set off and seek refund?
Hello Sir
i am salried person
My Short term capital gains from deliver based equity – Rs. 70000/-
Loss from F&O trading – Rs. 421000/-
So my question is do i have to pay tax on short term capital gain when i have losses in fNO trades.
Second one is can i get tax benefits on my salary income on account of FNO losses if i declare FNO losses in ITR.
Is it possible to carry forward option trade loss in new tax regime for future set off purpose??
I wrongly declared my future and option loss under speculative income head for assessment year 23-24 instead of non speculative income. Assessment for assessment year 23-24 is completed. Is there any way I can correct my mistake?
Ah, its best to discuss this with your CA RAj.
HI Raj,
I wrongly declared my future and option loss under speculative income head for assessment year 23-24 instead of non speculative income. Assessment for assessment year 23-24 is completed. Is there any way I can correct my mistake?
Yes, you can correct the mistake by filing rectification for assessment year 23-24.
What is Individuals’ tax liability against income from option trading?
Does this module updated based on the current taxation?
Hi Santosh,
What is Individuals’ tax liability against income from option trading? – Income from Options trading will be taxed as per the slab rates.